Why didn't you like Loki in Avengers? He was fantastic and was the original enemy in the comics that formed the team. Whedon deliberately kept the characters to a minimum so the movie wouldn't be overloaded with people. It was hard enough as it was with five Avengers.
I kind agree with the loki thing myself. He is an awesome character, and played VERY well. But in Avengers he just didn't fit.
He's a behind the scenes guy, a schemer and plotter. He's not an "in your face" commander of legions sitting on the front lines of an alien invasion. Had he been used by Thanos to be BEHIND the invasion, working it from behind the scenes, only to be flushed out by the Avengers and defeated, that would have worked fine.
But for the Avengers as it stood, I think some other big badass in your face kind of character would have worked better from a story standpoint.
In the comics Loki is front and center with his schemes. He'd be subtler but he is working for Thanos so he didn't have a choice in being covert.
In the comics Loki is front and center with his schemes. He'd be subtler but he is working for Thanos so he didn't have a choice in being covert.
Oh I know, it just didn't really fit for me. It's like they forced him in just to put him in the role. It didn't really server any other purpose aside from having Loki be the villain. It made no real difference to his appearance in the second Thor movie, nor would it have really changed much about the Avengers to have a different villain from a story perspective.
And in the comics he's not often front and center to the hero's. He may be obvious to the reader (or viewer in this case), but being the guy to lead the charge really isn't his style very often. Not that he's never done it, I mean there are a LOT of comics out there with stories ranging all over the quality spectrum.
Either way, I just think the story itself could have been tweaked to make him fit in a bit better with his nature if they wanted him as the villain.
It wasn't until Loki was "captured" that he really played the part to his strengths. Distracting and manipulating people to get what he wanted and throw everyone into disarray.
It's almost entirely his entry into the movie, and the way that sort of set him up that was a problem for me. Just a few small changes would have made him seem much closer to how he was in the first and second Thor movies.
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Keep in mind that most people aren't going to see that. Loki was brilliant as the arch villain in Avengers because he ties together the MCU up to that point. I'm a big geek and enjoy comics, but have been out of Marvel comics for a long time so his role in The Avengers made perfects sense.
The MCU is a different animal than the various comic storylines, even if the main high points are being followed.
Keep in mind that most people aren't going to see that. Loki was brilliant as the arch villain in Avengers because he ties together the MCU up to that point. I'm a big geek and enjoy comics, but have been out of Marvel comics for a long time so his role in The Avengers made perfects sense.
The MCU is a different animal than the various comic storylines, even if the main high points are being followed.
Oh I know. Which is why a lot of people love iron man 3, but I can't stand it and think it's the worst of the entire lot of them.
But even looking purely at Loki in Thor 1,2, and Avengers, Avengers is the only one where he doesn't quite fit into the same mold.
He's not a bad character at all. There's a reason people like him, because Tom Hiddleston plays that role excellently. I enjoy the movie and don't let that little nitpick stop me from doing so, it's just... I wish they had taken a tiny bit of extra care with it. (well that and making everything conveniently shut off after the ship was destroyed, which is an even bigger gripe of mine).
Except that Loki's flashy entrance is what got the Avengers together in the first place and got him captured, which is what he wanted? He wasn't on the ground fighting during the invasion, he was up in Stark Tower.
So it's weird that you'd say his entrance annoyed you but you liked his manipulation on the helicarrier, when they were both part of the same plan.
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Loki in Avengers more just seems like he's ... there. There's nothing really distinct about him being the villain. He's your average mwahaha super villain. For all their issues, the Thor movies do much better imo treating him in a way that makes the character feel like he couldn't be swapped out for just about anyone.
I think it still mostly works though in that it shows off the arrogant side of his character that we know is in any Asgardian. It's just that that's not a distinctly Loki thing.
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Except that Loki's flashy entrance is what got the Avengers together in the first place and got him captured, which is what he wanted? He wasn't on the ground fighting during the invasion, he was up in Stark Tower.
So it's weird that you'd say his entrance annoyed you but you liked his manipulation on the helicarrier, when they were both part of the same plan.
Everything he did in Avengers until the invasion itself was misdirection. To me it felt exactly like he was doing his trickster thing right up until he thought he had the upper hand.
Except that Loki's flashy entrance is what got the Avengers together in the first place and got him captured, which is what he wanted? He wasn't on the ground fighting during the invasion, he was up in Stark Tower.
So it's weird that you'd say his entrance annoyed you but you liked his manipulation on the helicarrier, when they were both part of the same plan.
Realistically, he wouldn't have wanted anyone to know who he was initially because that means they could try and stop him.
That initial scene being done with him covered, not telling them who he is, or even sending something through like a general or whatever to clear it would have had a similar impact. They could have caught him leaving, or uncovered him a bit later, or even have him "come out" to get caught like he did.
It's really just that his initial misdirection actually gave them the time and opportunity to plot his downfall, as opposed to the helicarrier part which was meant to cripple and confuse an already growing threat.
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
Does Loki know about any of the Avengers when he arrives? Thought he got his info from Hawkeye after brainwashing him. So the plan to get caught and manipulate the Hulk only comes about after the initial "get the Tesseract, get away" plan succeeds. Not sure he had anything prepared beyond that.
Honestly I would've really liked it if Loki had shown up and just been the friendliest, most reasonable guy in the world for a while.
They needed him to be an immediate threat because they needed the screentime to get the team together, but it still would've been tons of fun if he'd taken time to build up his influence within SHIELD by pretending to help.
he arrives and gets the tesseract, then goes about setting up the portal machine with selvig and whoever else he brings along.
If nothing else he knows that Thor is likely to show up at some point, and presumably always planned to try and set him against whatever defenders earth mustered
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Does Loki know about any of the Avengers when he arrives? Thought he got his info from Hawkeye after brainwashing him. So the plan to get caught and manipulate the Hulk only comes about after the initial "get the Tesseract, get away" plan succeeds. Not sure he had anything prepared beyond that.
It's hard to say what he knew, but it's likely he at least knew about Shield given his previous appearance.
Either way, showing up guns blazing in the middle of an underground bunker (which we know they knew humans were messing with it), and announcing who you are and your intentions is basically the opposite of being subtle.
The idea of him being friendly for awhile is actually quite a good one. We know he likes to use disguises and subterfuge, perhaps send in something to snag the cube, then come in like you're some bad ass space cop looking to catch the bad guy.
Hmm.. I don't agree with that per se, but I agree his character is quite awesome in it. It just (to me) needed some tweaks to make it really fit in better given the way the character has been presented prior and since. Not my only nitpick in the Avengers, and not even the biggest, but it's still there.
Hmm.. I don't agree with that per se, but I agree his character is quite awesome in it. It just (to me) needed some tweaks to make it really fit in better given the way the character has been presented prior and since. Not my only nitpick in the Avengers, and not even the biggest, but it's still there.
You needed a villain to balance seven different characters psychologically. Every scene had to work to flesh out those characters and their relationships. You needed a psychological threat, not a physical one.
The only thing I've seen him in was Star Trek Into Darkness, which I only saw once. Meh? Strange to me is best portrayed as Dr. Orpheus from Venture Bros, so I'm probably not the best to judge.
The only thing I've seen him in was Star Trek Into Darkness, which I only saw once. Meh? Strange to me is best portrayed as Dr. Orpheus from Venture Bros, so I'm probably not the best to judge.
You really need to watch BBCs Sherlock.
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Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
I will admit I think he can do it and do it really well, but it will be interesting to see what comes out the other end.
Now keep in mind I am not a fan of Doctor Strange at all, so I can't tell you if he'd fit the part or not.
I can say though that I am a huge fan of Cumberbatch from Sherlock and I loved him as Kahn, so him being Doctor Strange has a better chance of me seeing it. So yea, not bad news for me at all.
Hmm.. I don't agree with that per se, but I agree his character is quite awesome in it. It just (to me) needed some tweaks to make it really fit in better given the way the character has been presented prior and since. Not my only nitpick in the Avengers, and not even the biggest, but it's still there.
You needed a villain to balance seven different characters psychologically. Every scene had to work to flesh out those characters and their relationships. You needed a psychological threat, not a physical one.
That's Loki.
A villain yes, but I think they could have had one set up otherwise. Loki himself wasn't so much a threat as it was him opening a gate to an invading army from space.
They likely could have had some massive powerhouse character do the job, would it have been as good? Who knows.
Loki was, and is, a character that is excellent overall, and worked in the Avengers for sure, but the Movie could have been tweaked just a bit more to make Loki more consistent with his other two MCU appearances is all I'm trying to get across.
Hmm.. I don't agree with that per se, but I agree his character is quite awesome in it. It just (to me) needed some tweaks to make it really fit in better given the way the character has been presented prior and since. Not my only nitpick in the Avengers, and not even the biggest, but it's still there.
You needed a villain to balance seven different characters psychologically. Every scene had to work to flesh out those characters and their relationships. You needed a psychological threat, not a physical one.
That's Loki.
A villain yes, but I think they could have had one set up otherwise. Loki himself wasn't so much a threat as it was him opening a gate to an invading army from space.
They likely could have had some massive powerhouse character do the job, would it have been as good? Who knows.
Loki was, and is, a character that is excellent overall, and worked in the Avengers for sure, but the Movie could have been tweaked just a bit more to make Loki more consistent with his other two MCU appearances is all I'm trying to get across.
I also think that with minimal changes to the structure and the story, Red Skull could've been the villain, but Loki was the one who exploded with fans.
I will admit I think he can do it and do it really well, but it will be interesting to see what comes out the other end.
Now keep in mind I am not a fan of Doctor Strange at all, so I can't tell you if he'd fit the part or not.
I can say though that I am a huge fan of Cumberbatch from Sherlock and I loved him as Kahn, so him being Doctor Strange has a better chance of me seeing it. So yea, not bad news for me at all.
I mean, I have no reason to believe he's not capable of it.
Except for the fact that I've seen Sherlock and The Fifth Estate and Into Darkness. None of which was exactly showed the range necessary for the wisdom, restraint and subtlety I associate with Doctor Strange.
But I've been pleasantly surprised before.
I guess.
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
Huh. That would not have been my first pick. He's the cold calculating science guy. And he's great at that, but I don't really want Doctor Strange to be a cold calculating science guy.
Bandicoot Crumblycake seems like "cold science guy" because he was in Sherlock, and JJ Abrams had him written as "Sherlock in space" in Star Trek. He has a good acting range, and if you haven't seen him in his Dr Frankenstein play, you probably wouldn't know just how much.
Hmm.. I don't agree with that per se, but I agree his character is quite awesome in it. It just (to me) needed some tweaks to make it really fit in better given the way the character has been presented prior and since. Not my only nitpick in the Avengers, and not even the biggest, but it's still there.
You needed a villain to balance seven different characters psychologically. Every scene had to work to flesh out those characters and their relationships. You needed a psychological threat, not a physical one.
That's Loki.
A villain yes, but I think they could have had one set up otherwise. Loki himself wasn't so much a threat as it was him opening a gate to an invading army from space.
They likely could have had some massive powerhouse character do the job, would it have been as good? Who knows.
Loki was, and is, a character that is excellent overall, and worked in the Avengers for sure, but the Movie could have been tweaked just a bit more to make Loki more consistent with his other two MCU appearances is all I'm trying to get across.
I also think that with minimal changes to the structure and the story, Red Skull could've been the villain, but Loki was the one who exploded with fans.
Red Skull would have been turned into a red smear in any scene with Iron Man and Thor. And he'd have been murdered by the Hulk, not neutralized briefly. Though Red Skull would fit in as a general for Thanos.
Huh. That would not have been my first pick. He's the cold calculating science guy. And he's great at that, but I don't really want Doctor Strange to be a cold calculating science guy.
He wasn't a cold calculating science guy in The Hobbit: Desolution of Smaug. He's a very talented actor.
The only thing I've seen him in was Star Trek Into Darkness, which I only saw once. Meh? Strange to me is best portrayed as Dr. Orpheus from Venture Bros, so I'm probably not the best to judge.
You really need to watch BBCs Sherlock.
Or you could just watch Luther. Or Elementary. Or anything less terribly gross.
The only thing I've seen him in was Star Trek Into Darkness, which I only saw once. Meh? Strange to me is best portrayed as Dr. Orpheus from Venture Bros, so I'm probably not the best to judge.
You really need to watch BBCs Sherlock.
Or you could just watch Luther. Or Elementary. Or anything less terribly gross.
Get your pistol. I'll meet you in front of the saloon at dawn!
The only thing I've seen him in was Star Trek Into Darkness, which I only saw once. Meh? Strange to me is best portrayed as Dr. Orpheus from Venture Bros, so I'm probably not the best to judge.
You really need to watch BBCs Sherlock.
Or you could just watch Luther. Or Elementary. Or anything less terribly gross.
Wait, what? How is Sherlock gross?
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Probably more floating around. I should stress, I love Sherlock Holmes. But man, fuck Moffat's version of him, and fuck how engrossed everyone is in it.
Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
edited October 2014
Moffat can diaf.
Edit: OK, that was harsh. I should rephrase.
Should Moffat ever find himself in a burning building, I should hope he has a moment to reflect on what an awful person he is and consider doing humanity a favor by not looking for an exit.
Just_Bri_Thanks on
...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
The only thing I've seen him in was Star Trek Into Darkness, which I only saw once. Meh? Strange to me is best portrayed as Dr. Orpheus from Venture Bros, so I'm probably not the best to judge.
You really need to watch BBCs Sherlock.
Or you could just watch Luther. Or Elementary. Or anything less terribly gross.
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In the comics Loki is front and center with his schemes. He'd be subtler but he is working for Thanos so he didn't have a choice in being covert.
Oh I know, it just didn't really fit for me. It's like they forced him in just to put him in the role. It didn't really server any other purpose aside from having Loki be the villain. It made no real difference to his appearance in the second Thor movie, nor would it have really changed much about the Avengers to have a different villain from a story perspective.
And in the comics he's not often front and center to the hero's. He may be obvious to the reader (or viewer in this case), but being the guy to lead the charge really isn't his style very often. Not that he's never done it, I mean there are a LOT of comics out there with stories ranging all over the quality spectrum.
Either way, I just think the story itself could have been tweaked to make him fit in a bit better with his nature if they wanted him as the villain.
It wasn't until Loki was "captured" that he really played the part to his strengths. Distracting and manipulating people to get what he wanted and throw everyone into disarray.
It's almost entirely his entry into the movie, and the way that sort of set him up that was a problem for me. Just a few small changes would have made him seem much closer to how he was in the first and second Thor movies.
The MCU is a different animal than the various comic storylines, even if the main high points are being followed.
Oh I know. Which is why a lot of people love iron man 3, but I can't stand it and think it's the worst of the entire lot of them.
But even looking purely at Loki in Thor 1,2, and Avengers, Avengers is the only one where he doesn't quite fit into the same mold.
He's not a bad character at all. There's a reason people like him, because Tom Hiddleston plays that role excellently. I enjoy the movie and don't let that little nitpick stop me from doing so, it's just... I wish they had taken a tiny bit of extra care with it. (well that and making everything conveniently shut off after the ship was destroyed, which is an even bigger gripe of mine).
So it's weird that you'd say his entrance annoyed you but you liked his manipulation on the helicarrier, when they were both part of the same plan.
I think it still mostly works though in that it shows off the arrogant side of his character that we know is in any Asgardian. It's just that that's not a distinctly Loki thing.
Everything he did in Avengers until the invasion itself was misdirection. To me it felt exactly like he was doing his trickster thing right up until he thought he had the upper hand.
Realistically, he wouldn't have wanted anyone to know who he was initially because that means they could try and stop him.
That initial scene being done with him covered, not telling them who he is, or even sending something through like a general or whatever to clear it would have had a similar impact. They could have caught him leaving, or uncovered him a bit later, or even have him "come out" to get caught like he did.
It's really just that his initial misdirection actually gave them the time and opportunity to plot his downfall, as opposed to the helicarrier part which was meant to cripple and confuse an already growing threat.
They needed him to be an immediate threat because they needed the screentime to get the team together, but it still would've been tons of fun if he'd taken time to build up his influence within SHIELD by pretending to help.
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If nothing else he knows that Thor is likely to show up at some point, and presumably always planned to try and set him against whatever defenders earth mustered
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
It's hard to say what he knew, but it's likely he at least knew about Shield given his previous appearance.
Either way, showing up guns blazing in the middle of an underground bunker (which we know they knew humans were messing with it), and announcing who you are and your intentions is basically the opposite of being subtle.
The idea of him being friendly for awhile is actually quite a good one. We know he likes to use disguises and subterfuge, perhaps send in something to snag the cube, then come in like you're some bad ass space cop looking to catch the bad guy.
Smaug is playing Dr. Strange.
I will admit I think he can do it and do it really well, but it will be interesting to see what comes out the other end.
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That's almost crushingly disappointing.
Hmm.. I don't agree with that per se, but I agree his character is quite awesome in it. It just (to me) needed some tweaks to make it really fit in better given the way the character has been presented prior and since. Not my only nitpick in the Avengers, and not even the biggest, but it's still there.
You needed a villain to balance seven different characters psychologically. Every scene had to work to flesh out those characters and their relationships. You needed a psychological threat, not a physical one.
That's Loki.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
You really need to watch BBCs Sherlock.
Now keep in mind I am not a fan of Doctor Strange at all, so I can't tell you if he'd fit the part or not.
I can say though that I am a huge fan of Cumberbatch from Sherlock and I loved him as Kahn, so him being Doctor Strange has a better chance of me seeing it. So yea, not bad news for me at all.
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A villain yes, but I think they could have had one set up otherwise. Loki himself wasn't so much a threat as it was him opening a gate to an invading army from space.
They likely could have had some massive powerhouse character do the job, would it have been as good? Who knows.
Loki was, and is, a character that is excellent overall, and worked in the Avengers for sure, but the Movie could have been tweaked just a bit more to make Loki more consistent with his other two MCU appearances is all I'm trying to get across.
I also think that with minimal changes to the structure and the story, Red Skull could've been the villain, but Loki was the one who exploded with fans.
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I mean, I have no reason to believe he's not capable of it.
Except for the fact that I've seen Sherlock and The Fifth Estate and Into Darkness. None of which was exactly showed the range necessary for the wisdom, restraint and subtlety I associate with Doctor Strange.
But I've been pleasantly surprised before.
I guess.
Found on Gaf.
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Red Skull would have been turned into a red smear in any scene with Iron Man and Thor. And he'd have been murdered by the Hulk, not neutralized briefly. Though Red Skull would fit in as a general for Thanos.
He wasn't a cold calculating science guy in The Hobbit: Desolution of Smaug. He's a very talented actor.
His name and Britishness alone add at least four degrees of extra whiteness, too!
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Or you could just watch Luther. Or Elementary. Or anything less terribly gross.
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Get your pistol. I'll meet you in front of the saloon at dawn!
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Wait, what? How is Sherlock gross?
http://www.dailydot.com/opinion/steven-moffat-sexism-sherlock-doctor-who/
http://iwontloveyoulongtime.blogspot.com/2011/01/sherlock-blind-banker.html
Probably more floating around. I should stress, I love Sherlock Holmes. But man, fuck Moffat's version of him, and fuck how engrossed everyone is in it.
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
Edit: OK, that was harsh. I should rephrase.
Should Moffat ever find himself in a burning building, I should hope he has a moment to reflect on what an awful person he is and consider doing humanity a favor by not looking for an exit.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
Harry he's not white
he's British
when idris lost the emmy to benedict I cringe-laughed.
Like a bad joke.