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Depression and Mental Illness and Maybe Something Happier Like Puppies
ElJeffe
Registered User, ClubPA regular
Registered User, ClubPA regular
So hey, let's talk about mental illness.
Are you a person? Do you know anybody who is a person? Then hey, you probably have some experience with mental health issues! Because they are incredibly common!
This thread is for discussing the myriad topics that surround mental health and how it's addressed by society, by health professionals, by media, by anyone or anything else you care to mention. Note that mental health is a thorny issue. As well, even discussing mental health is a thorny issue. So here are some guidelines.
What This Thread Is:
A place to talk frankly about mental health. You can talk about past experiences with mental health, through whatever lens you wish. Have you suffered depression? Do you have a loved one who has anxiety issues? Did a close friend fall victim to suicide? Do you have opinions on how our culture treats mental illness? These are all good things to talk about! Talk about these things!
What This Thread Is NOT:
Therapy. If you are currently depressed and feel you need help, this is not the place to solicit help. We are a bunch of guys on the internet. We are not mental health professionals. While everyone is welcome to share personal experiences, it should be done from a perspective of furthering insight or sharing experience. I recognize it's kind of a fine line to walk, so here is a non-rigid rule of thumb: if you're discussing something that happened before, you're probably good. If you're talking about something that's going on right now, that is probably beyond the scope of this thread. Obviously, as issues of mental health can be lifelong ordeals that do not have clean beginnings and ends, you are not barred from talking about, say, anxiety disorder if you still suffer from anxiety disorder. It is okay to say, "Once I had a panic attack and this is what happened." It is not okay to say, "I am having a panic attack right now, what should I do about it?"
And please note that Forum Rule Number One will count doubly in here. Do not be a dick. People being dicks in here will be kicked from the thread so hard that Geth's foot will qualify as a rectal cybernetic enhancement.
Are you a person? Do you know anybody who is a person? Then hey, you probably have some experience with mental health issues! Because they are incredibly common!
This thread is for discussing the myriad topics that surround mental health and how it's addressed by society, by health professionals, by media, by anyone or anything else you care to mention. Note that mental health is a thorny issue. As well, even discussing mental health is a thorny issue. So here are some guidelines.
What This Thread Is:
A place to talk frankly about mental health. You can talk about past experiences with mental health, through whatever lens you wish. Have you suffered depression? Do you have a loved one who has anxiety issues? Did a close friend fall victim to suicide? Do you have opinions on how our culture treats mental illness? These are all good things to talk about! Talk about these things!
What This Thread Is NOT:
Therapy. If you are currently depressed and feel you need help, this is not the place to solicit help. We are a bunch of guys on the internet. We are not mental health professionals. While everyone is welcome to share personal experiences, it should be done from a perspective of furthering insight or sharing experience. I recognize it's kind of a fine line to walk, so here is a non-rigid rule of thumb: if you're discussing something that happened before, you're probably good. If you're talking about something that's going on right now, that is probably beyond the scope of this thread. Obviously, as issues of mental health can be lifelong ordeals that do not have clean beginnings and ends, you are not barred from talking about, say, anxiety disorder if you still suffer from anxiety disorder. It is okay to say, "Once I had a panic attack and this is what happened." It is not okay to say, "I am having a panic attack right now, what should I do about it?"
And please note that Forum Rule Number One will count doubly in here. Do not be a dick. People being dicks in here will be kicked from the thread so hard that Geth's foot will qualify as a rectal cybernetic enhancement.
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This particular quote hits me really close to home.
I just want to say to anyone here who might be reading that getting treatment for it is the best thing. Like, I understand that you might think you can deal with it on your own, but chances are, you'll hit a point where you no longer can and then it will be way harder to deal with everyday things.
So don't wait until it's become unmanageable AND, most importantly, be frank and honest with your mental health professional. Don't downplay your problems, lots of people do it, get badly diagnosed and that doesn't help anyone.
Also, a thing that helped me is working on creative projects. Dunno how useful that is, but it helped me a lot.
Check out my site, the Bismuth Heart | My Twitter
I was lucky in that the hardest part was taking the first step (rather than inability to pay for it, overt social stigma, etc.). It seemed like a longshot, do-nothing "yeah, people say to do that but I'll never do it" thing to go see a psychiatrist, until a friend of mine talked about finding hers. For some reason I'd never realized before that these people are doctors; going to see one isn't any different from going to a doctor for strep throat.
I called the office, made an appointment, said I felt like I might be depressed, talked over why I thought that for a while, they gave me a number of treatment options to choose from. I started on medication, which actually made a tangible difference; I was able to be social in ways that had always seemed horribly pressured before. Before treatment, I looked at a day spent entirely alone in my apartment as a treat, because it meant I wouldn't have to deal with the anxiety of interacting with people, or be worried that they'd figure out how depressed I was. Now I can actually look forward to spending time with people without panicking that there will be 30 seconds when I don't know what to say.
I'm not cured; still in therapy and on some reduced meds. My spiral of depressive thoughts was a learned habit that's still very easy to fall back into. But I am so much better now than I was before; the people close to me are better too, in that they don't have to worry so much about me.
I hope that this or one of the other posts in this thread will be the thing that flips the switch in someone to make getting help seem possible. It's possible, it's worth it.
I have always been a cautious person going as far back to my childhood. I didn't shy away from people or similar, but I had difficulty dealing with unpleasant things. Things which scared me which there was nothing you could do about.
This manifested itself when I was nine years old. I had caught a stomach bug which scared the hell out of me afterwards because the experience of puking was so severe in my child mind. From here on out I would be terrified of anything relating to puking or feeling nauseous.
It became worse when during a dentist operation I gagged and puked, causing me to fear going to the dentist for several years. I still went, but was physically ill every time I did it due to my anxiety. In the end I "beat" it and I could relax at the dentist.
But it was still deep inside of me and one day while eating together with my dormitory, it hit me with a full force.
Now I was anxious about everything.
Not at the conscious level, but my subconscious just wouldn't stop being afraid of everything around me.
The first few weeks were bad. I was nauseous all the time, had barely any appetite, forced myself to eat what little I could and lost like 6-7 kilos. Being near people made the symptoms worse, but I "soldiered" through as I always do. Ignore the pain.
My family was very helpful, but there was nothing they could really do when your subconscious is the one beng afraid and not specifically you. Many times I talked about it like part of my mind had been reset, and had to learn not to be afraid of everything.
As time went by, the symptoms lessened and I knew it was a question of time before I was cured. I just didn't know when. But I made a very important promise to myself.
If it ever got so bad that I didn't think I could handle it myself, I would seek professional help.
And so I did when I was beginning to develop a fear of heights and a fear of suicide (interestingly enough, that development came about listening to an interview about a guy who had beat his gambling addiction and had prior to besting it unconsciously prepared himself to settle all affairs and then maybe end it).
Luckily for me, 3 sessions was all I needed to get me back on track. I uncovered a lot of stuff about my self, about how my parents had raised me and the consequences of that upbringing (typical stuff like lies to protect you as a child - unfortunately it does the opposite). I wasn't cured, but I felt better and was back on track.
And then it happened.
I remember it so clearly. I had been dining with my family and discussing plans to go a baptism across the country. I went home, prepared myself for sleeping, lay down my head and suddenly, everything was clear as day
I was afraid of being afraid.
The fear went away and so did all my problems.
And in rushed a wonderous energy unlike anything I had ever experienced before. I was soooo energetic all the time. I could do anything in my mind. I wasn't afraid anymore. I was my own master again.
The rest of that year... Man, what an experience. Joined the gym again, got in really good shape, was on vacation for the first time outside of the country in 5 years, dated 3 girls within 1 1/2 months and had the time of my life.
Today, I'm not as energetic as I was after breaking the spell. My anxiety still lurks within me, but I know now how to tackle it and soothe it, so it doesn't get a hold of me. Same goes for the unpleasant topics I think of from time to time. Like death, the end of a life and the meaning of it thereof. More pondering and philosophing than just thinking.
By holding on and resummoning that energy I previously felt, I keep them at bay and they only manage to touch at my heart and not envelop it.
So my advice to all you lurks and non-lurkers out there: Make yourself a promise and stick to it. It gets better if you break the cycle.
It’s not a very important country most of the time
http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
OMG BABY SEA OTTERS!
That said, the way you are looking at it is incapable of seeing individual people who manage better than they otherwise would.
I also have trouble sleeping because I don't get enough exercise.
Long story short, the defaults of our civilization in terms of work and transportation might be pushing a lot of people toward more depression.
What were you on, if you don't mind me asking? I was on Zoloft (lol, Zoloft) when I was younger... didn't agree with me and ultimately probably made things worse. These days I'm now on Lexapro which has worked out pretty well. I had three side effects:
1. I lost eight pounds in about a month, have since gained it back (I'm 155lbs, I can't afford to start losing weight!)
2. A lot of really vivid, weird dreams (along with me regaining my lucid dream abilities, which is always fun. "Yeah," I said to the random middle aged couple in my dream, "you guy's aren't real. I'm sorry."
3. Increased libido.
Obviously, though this stuff effects everyone differently and given how prevalent Lexapro seems to be right now there's a good chance it was the stuff that didn't work out for you.
Anyways...
part of the problem was I was off insurance so was seriously limited in what medications I could get
Yeah, I am in the same boat. It is awful. Good luck.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
Treatment helps. I have suffered from Generalised Anxiety Disorder (basically panic attacks) for nearly 8 years. I was put on meds (citalopram) which just made me worse (they also help a LOT of people so don't disregard). Three years ago I did a 6 month course of CBT. My weekly sessions became something I really looked forward to. Whilst I still have feelings of anxiety, I haven't had a panic attack since I completed the course. It helped. In addition it also gave me ways of dealing with difficult situations in life that aren't necessarily anxiety related. When I call it a 'course', it wasn't a set length of time. There just came a week where my therapist refused to take my money anymore because he felt I had all the tools I needed to continue alone. I wanted to continue therapy but he wouldn't take my money!
My therapist, Simon, is basically my god damned fucking hero, he changed my life. Even if you're sceptical, just try it.
Steam: adamjnet
That TED talk, plus the two Hyperbole and a Half about depression capture it very well.
Adventures in Depression
Depression Part 2
I have done the therapy thing a few times, and am taking meds now. I had assumed everyone felt this way, since it is how I have felt since...well, puberty, really, except for one time in undergrad when I was happy. My most recent doctor mentioned the possibility that I have Dysthymia. When he explained it, my reaction was
"That's a thing? Because you are describing me. I am a thing?"
So, yeah. Dysthymia is a thing. Or, well, not in the DSM-5. It has a new name. But anyway. Many people with persistent depressive disorder, from what I understand, do not think of themselves as depressed because they do not experience the fluctuations from happy to sad; it's just always shitty, and you just kinda roll with the shittiness.
That is what I would tell people about depression. If things are always shitty for you, there may be a way to change that.
Help is available, there is no shame in asking for it, and things can maybe get better.
Edit: Also
Dysthymia is when you are the rabbit, and reality is always like that pancake.
I seem to recall that women attempt it more it's just men have a much higher success rate. IE a girl chasing a bunch of pills with some vodka compared to a boy pulling a Kurt Cobain. One of those the parents get home and a call to 9/11 can fix the problem, the other it's just over and done with. Males just tend to pick much more violent ways to carry it out.
This isn't to say that male mental depression isn't an issue, or that it isn't often ignored and guys aren't told to "man up, quit being a bitch" when expressing anguish... that is a problem. But men's killing themselves in higher numbers is (or was last I had to listen to a lecture on this) largely due to choice of method.
I suppose the first thing I would want to share on the subject of depression is the, for me, most evil part of the lot. that you try to hide it as much and as long as you possibly can.
back when I was suffering my first two years of yet-undiagnosed depression I was a master of deception. it was a momentous effort to get out of bed each day. I was unemployed at the time so that went unnoticed. I used to go for weeks without taking a shower. part of me probably believed I did not deserve one.
but as soon as I answered a phone-call (one which I had been dodging for two weeks at least) I was the life of the party. everything was swell and I had it all figured out and sorted, just give me a week or two.
now here is the nasty part imho. this deception (which you do to yourself as well) takes so much effort at a time when you have so little energy to spare. so you try to avoid that next phone-call even more. I will deal with that tomorrow. don't bother me now person-who-cares-about-me!
the condition you are in gets worse anytime somebody close to you tries to help. how fucked up is that? up until the moment you realize that you do indeed need help.
heart attacks are honest, at least.
Unscientifically, it appears to me that popular attitudes towards mental illness and suicide have evolved in the last six years.
In 2008, it was less acceptable to admit that you have a mental illness, and more acceptable to describe suicide with words like "selfish" or "cowardly."
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Confined to a tiny spit of sand, unable to escape,
But tonight, it's heavy stuff.
http://therapists.psychologytoday.com/rms/
List of therapists in the US and Canada (searchable by city), their specialties, rates, and insurance they accept.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
huh, interesting.
Thanks _J_
It’s not a very important country most of the time
http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
Today I learned that double depression is actually a thing, which would explain the occasional pits of despair.
Yarp.
I still go back and forth on whether or not depression is a disease, in the sense that pneumonia is a disease. That is one of the reasons I put off medication for so long.
But eventually I realized that we don't need to quibble over whether this manner-of-being is a disease or not. I feel shitty. Enough other people feel the same kind of shitty that we have a name for it. And some people produced a substance they say and make things less shitty.
Disease or not, it would be neat if I could feel the kind of happy other people describe. So, yey therapy and drugs.
Something wrong with you from the start vs something you catch. Depression is something that is wrong with you, pneumonia is something you catch. It's not wrong to consider them different... just as a cancer you get through genetics isn't exactly the same as something you get through your environment.
Except, really almost all the time there are issues of genetic disposition, historical environmental exposure, and accute even I on mental factors.
Like the pneumonia. Some folk have really strong immune systems. They won't get it. Most folks are otherwise pretty health, have been in conditions that make it unlikely and don't have other issues going on. Even people in poorish heath with non amazing systems still need to acquire a respiratory infection.
Most cancers work the same way, and largely instances of depression aren't that different. Some people just have shitty emotional immune systems, and depression makes it hard to have health habits and a good environment, so... there can be nasty spirally synergistic effects, so some people get depressed often, because they are exposed to things that caused it, and are generally more prone to it.
Or someshit. I've spent most of my life really pretty unhappy. Not being depressed is amazing.
I'm not saying you're wrong, just that society views "was born with an issue and thus ill" and "an external factor made them ill" as different issues. Genetically it makes sense, fear of the flawed contaminating the gene pool is something that all animals act on, and is why we place such a premium on certain physical attributes. The world is a harsh place, and pretending humans are anything but more advanced and thus more vicious animals is christian fundie crap.
I don't agree with it, but I can understand why society acts the way it does around some things, it's instinct that allowed us to get where we are.
I'm having a panic attack right now, what do I do?
I kid, Geth, I kid. Actually I am having a panic attack right now, which is why I'm on my laptop trying to ignore all of the people in my house.
So I've had some variety of depression-spectrum disorder for all of my adult life. My current diagnosis is chronic depression + generalized anxiety disorder. I have all of the drugs! All of them! Actually just a few. I tried escitalopram (Lexapro) first. Goddamn that was a mistake. I had an honest-to-god psychotic break on that shit. The doctors didn't believe me and prescribed me: 1) more Lexarpo, 2) Clonazepam. Turns out that clonazepam (and related drugs, like kolonpin) actually make my condition worse. Let me tell you: auditory and tactile hallucinations are scary. Visual hallucinations are goddamned terrifying. I mean, I knew they were hallucinations and I was still freaked the fuck out. Catatonia and the inability to speak (or at least to speak in English; sadly I don't know anyone who shares the same set of languages I do who could have interpreted the gibberish I was spewing) is possibly even scarier.
I have therapy now, and new drugs (zoloft, lamictal, and whatever the brand name for Busiprone is), which help. I was really resistant to drugs for a long time on the basis that I was afraid they would impact my ability to think. That wasn't an entirely groundless fear. They definitely change my thought process, and being on too much Busiprone for the day makes it hard to think about anything complicated, but overall it's really a lot better than being actively insane. Therapy is generally nice. My first therapist had no idea what she was doing and just wanted to talk to me about my budget all of the time. My second therapist actually gave up. She said that depression wasn't her specialty and that she couldn't help me, so I should see someone else. Then failed to follow up with her promised list of referrals. Luckily my third (fourth if you count the one I only went to once) therapist is a lot better, in that she has not only one but several clues.
All of the many, many webcomics and jpg's and so forth that talk about depression and how all of the non-depressed peoples' of the world attempts (people of the world's? Something like that) to 'cheer us up' are misguided are correct. My best friend is just fundamentally incapable of understanding depression as a mental affliction and insists that just being happy is an option. It's really annoying.
To go back to the hallucination thing (sorry, I actually am mid-panic-attack here), I've found that since having gone through that movies and TV shows depicting people who are experiencing the paranormal but believe it to be (or are being told that it is) just in their heads are completely goddmanded unrealistic. The first example to spring to mind is Halle's Berry's new thing, Extant, wherein she acknowledges that yes, she is hallucinating, but why doesn't her husband believe her that the thing she has no evidence for is real. Let me tell you as a person who has done some hallucinating: the thing I was the most terrified of was that I would lose the ability to recognize my hallucinations for what they were. I knew that the voices I heard, the stuff I felt touching me/on me, and the things I saw weren't real. Which was plenty weird enough. But I was very definite about the fact that I was seeing/hearing/feeling things that weren't real. If someone had told me, "Hey, look, you're hallucinating, right? This other thing that you have no evidence for and which all existing evidence actually points to being untrue? Probably a hallucination." I'd have listened.
I guess it's like the whole bullet-sparks thing. It seems a lot more reasonable until you know better, then it becomes just massively annoying.
I've lost track of my point, assuming I ever had one.
If you've got problems, folks, and you can afford it, go to therapy. It's good. I still am not sure that it can actually 'fix' me, but just having a person who is being paid to not be judgmental is a help. And if someone (qualified) tells you that you need medication, take that shit. And this is coming from a person who has probably permanent mental defects thanks to taking it. Most especially, once you start taking it: don't just stop. If you feel like you don't need it anymore, that means it's working. If you think it's not working, talk to your doctor. There are tapering schedules for a reason.
Okay. Time to go freak out quietly in a corner.
What would be great is removing the connotations from the healthy / ill terminology, the "disease" terminology, etc.
Much of that feeds into problems with notions of self. There was a group, that I cannot find now, whose members embraced their particular mental quirks, and so lived lives as schizophrenics, bi-polars, etc. without medication. They made the "This is who I am" declaration, and so treating any symptom would be an attempt to remove parts of their sense of self.
If the conversation could have all the nonsense stripped away, to be like this
That seems like a sane conversation that avoids all the connotations and arguments about "true self" and most of the nonsense involved in conversations about mental whatnots. No diseases or disorders. No connotations of worth or value.
Just collections of habits-of-being.
You seem to be really X. Would you like to be Y? Y people smile sometimes, and that smile relates to a felt state of happiness. You like happiness, right?
Hah, I remember these feelings.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-0Wr4ZiVUcDQ/Tqj2Z3ZDCDI/AAAAAAAAGZ0/eIvdIqkSMl0/s1600/sad5alt4.png
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-DWbtVgpUr9Q/Uga74Tl0qFI/AAAAAAAAKRI/FlElKmQG-FA/s1600/DEPRESSIONTWO19alt3.png
A few years ago, I had been given a trial prescription for an ADD medication (I forget which). Knowing that those sorts of things tend to mess with your head, I decided to try taking it at the one time it wouldn't interfere with my work, I wouldn't be under much stress, and there would be guaranteed to be people who knew me well nearby at all times: my family's trip to Disneyworld.
It turns out that Disneyworld, the theme park version of a theme park, is kind of a bad place to completely lose your ability to feel whimsy. I basically lost the ability to feel emotions other than a vague sense of intensity. As was mentioned, there definitely was a feeling of having my arbitrary perceptions stripped away, and seeing the world as closer to what it actually is. Just for kicks, I decided to test this out by trying out Space Mountain, which I would normally have never touched, on the theory that roller coasters are only frightening because you buy into the fact that they're supposed to be. As I expected, it was slightly stressful on my body, but otherwise not that bad at all. Of course, I didn't enjoy it either. Or anything else, until the medication eventually wore off later that night.
It was actually kind of interesting in a way to feel completely terrible, know exactly why I was feeling terrible, and know that it would wear off pretty soon. It did make me feel really bad for all the people who are permanently stuck like that, especially the ones who don't know why. That sort of depression really feels nothing like how people normally feel.
I had my first serious depression when I was 17, and I struggled a lot with that. Would this medicine help me... or change me? Would it effectively remake me into a different personality? I blame a lot of this on being a teenager, later I was all "screw it, gimme them SRIs."
I still have a lot of those thoughts about my Asperger diagnosis. (Like, an actual doctor-says-so, not internet-self-diagnosed kind). And it's even harder to define a line where you end and the diagnosis begins. That line is a whole lot blurrier than in a depression. (But that's for a different thread.)
I don't think this is right personally, depression is absolutely something you can "catch" due to circumstances or bad thinking habits. And when you're depressed for any reason it's easy for the behavior to self-reinforce and cause a lasting personality change. Any prolonged periods of depression are treatable with therapy/medication - whether you had a depression gene as a baby or not isn't really relevant at the end of the day. I think even a healthy person could be driven to severe depression and thoughts of suicide if they're stuck in a depressed mindset for a long enough period of time.
Fortunately, though depression may sit around tirelessly guarding your metaphorical escape route, he/she/it/they/depression is very easy to catch off guard. Simply busy yourself and get yourself involved in any kind of activity, solo or together with friends writing, swimming, cat sitting, jogging, listening to music, watching tv, even talking about anything with anyone, hell even talking about depression is a way you can slip past your depression's defenses.
It may seem futile if you sit around, but understand, mobility is the key. If you can mobilize yourself to go on an adventure and get a goal, your mind will start filling up with much more positive thoughts and concepts; Why do I want to achieve this goal? what will I do to accomplish this goal? How can I prepare myself for the things I need to do to succeed? What will happen when I succeed? And how can I pick myself up and try again if I fail? When you move and get a goal, brand new thoughts will flock to your head like butterflies and give you plenty more stuff to focus on and energize you.
Hell, you could even do what I'm doing to sort through my depression. Writing bits of advice and stuff you've found might work in order to sneak you away from that ol' watchdog of depression!
Oh I definitely agree with that, breaking the monotone is another thing I've had trouble with. The one thing that always breaks the monotone for me is helping people, people are pretty unpredictable so whenever I interact with them I never know what to expect. Heck, even online, I'll never know how they'll respond to a post I make so that creates some anticipation, maybe even a little nervousness in my stomach but admittedly that's more exciting than plain old monotonous depression!
Of course the rather common comorbidity makes going and doing things and expecting them not to go wrong, and noticing limited successes and improvements rather difficult.
Sort if having someone you can talk about your fears with, who can be objective, keep you at it, encourage and root for you can really help. And, well, that can be hard for someone who cares and has to watch you still be miserable--so maybe paying someone isn't a bad idea.