I mean, the whole point of the early scenes in ROTJ was to make you consider Luke had fallen to the dark side. He was dressing all in black, he was choking guards, and he went up to Jabba and straight up said "Do what I want or I will destroy you." It was all showing how he was falling down the path his father took, right up until he gave in to his anger, chopped off Vaders hand and had an "Oh shit" moment.
I disagree. Luke at Jabba's Palace was not him falling to the Dark Side. It was entirely him (and the team) trying to bullshit one past Jabba the Hutt to spring Han from Carbonite. "Look at me, I'm a badass Jedi. Let my friend go or bad Jedi things will happen to you. I'm a Jedi, you know." To which Jabba responded with, "Fuck you, kid. I used to eat Jedi for breakfast. Now feed my rancor." And we all know how that turned out.
The only time Luke was ever really in danger of falling was during the final Duel with Vader and the Emperor egging him on, and Vader threatened to go after Leia if Luke wouldn't turn.
I disagree. Luke at Jabba's Palace was not him falling to the Dark Side. It was entirely him (and the team) trying to bullshit one past Jabba the Hutt to spring Han from Carbonite. "Look at me, I'm a badass Jedi. Let my friend go or bad Jedi things will happen to you. I'm a Jedi, you know." To which Jabba responded with, "Fuck you, kid. I used to eat Jedi for breakfast. Now feed my rancor." And we all know how that turned out.
The only time Luke was ever really in danger of falling was during the final Duel with Vader and the Emperor egging him on, and Vader threatened to go after Leia if Luke wouldn't turn.
Not him actually falling. They were trying to convince the audience how close to toeing the line he was.
I disagree. Luke at Jabba's Palace was not him falling to the Dark Side. It was entirely him (and the team) trying to bullshit one past Jabba the Hutt to spring Han from Carbonite. "Look at me, I'm a badass Jedi. Let my friend go or bad Jedi things will happen to you. I'm a Jedi, you know." To which Jabba responded with, "Fuck you, kid. I used to eat Jedi for breakfast. Now feed my rancor." And we all know how that turned out.
The only time Luke was ever really in danger of falling was during the final Duel with Vader and the Emperor egging him on, and Vader threatened to go after Leia if Luke wouldn't turn.
Not him actually falling. They were trying to convince the audience how close to toeing the line he was.
And Luke trying to convince Jabba the same. So I agree with you both.
The movies treat Luke slipping into anger as a failstate, though.
Also, force choking is neither good or bad. It's a tool, and like all tools the only thing that matters is the person using it. HOWEVER
Star Wars video games and board games and EU books always classify force choke as an evil power because the people writing all that shit buy into the black/white shit.
edit edit edit: Or I guess it would be fair to say that Luke considers slipping into anger a failstate. If we look at the prequels, there's atleast one scene where Obi-Wan is fucking pissed off as all Hell at Anakin (end of Ep2, "come to your senses" and all that on the transport ship) but nobody's worried about him going darkside.
First, choking someone is violent as hell. You can't choke someone without some sort of violent angry boiling up inside. Even if it's part of sex, it's classified as "Rough Sex". I'd never would classify Force Choke as anything but Dark Side.
Also, being angry and using the anger to supercharge your Force Powers are completely different. You see Mace and Yoda both angry in the prequels. But you never see them use the Force while angry. Luke, however, is shown many times using his rage and fear to power his Force Powers, which leads to the Dark Side (because your emotions are controlling your actions, not you.)
On the last episode
I like how Kanan loses his fear of Ezra when the guy fell only like 10 feet... You can still see him down there, knocked out. I'd be worried more if one of my friends fell and didn't move even from that height. Seriously?
What the heck is a neutral Jedi and why are people saying Ashoka is one?
She is no longer Jedi and she is not Sith. Plus her lightsabers are white.
She's not in the Jedi Order, she can still be a Jedi without being in that group.
Its said by Fioni in Rebels Recon that her white light sabers are supposed to represent that she's not a Jedi or Sith.
And no, you can't really be a Jedi without being in the Order. Just like being an evil Force User doesn't make you a Sith. That is covered in the Clone Wars with Ventress.
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What the heck is a neutral Jedi and why are people saying Ashoka is one?
She is no longer Jedi and she is not Sith. Plus her lightsabers are white.
She's not in the Jedi Order, she can still be a Jedi without being in that group.
Its said by Fioni in Rebels Recon that her white light sabers are supposed to represent that she's not a Jedi or Sith.
And no, you can't really be a Jedi without being in the Order. Just like being an evil Force User doesn't make you a Sith. That is covered in the Clone Wars with Ventress.
What the heck is a neutral Jedi and why are people saying Ashoka is one?
She is no longer Jedi and she is not Sith. Plus her lightsabers are white.
She's not in the Jedi Order, she can still be a Jedi without being in that group.
Its said by Fioni in Rebels Recon that her white light sabers are supposed to represent that she's not a Jedi or Sith.
And no, you can't really be a Jedi without being in the Order. Just like being an evil Force User doesn't make you a Sith. That is covered in the Clone Wars with Ventress.
Then what does that make Kanan and Ezra?
Kanan teaches Ezra in the way of the Jedi Order, what with them visiting Jedi temples etc, so I would call them Jedi
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HiT BiT🍒 Fresh, straight from Pac-man'sRegistered Userregular
What the heck is a neutral Jedi and why are people saying Ashoka is one?
She is no longer Jedi and she is not Sith. Plus her lightsabers are white.
She's not in the Jedi Order, she can still be a Jedi without being in that group.
Its said by Fioni in Rebels Recon that her white light sabers are supposed to represent that she's not a Jedi or Sith.
And no, you can't really be a Jedi without being in the Order. Just like being an evil Force User doesn't make you a Sith. That is covered in the Clone Wars with Ventress.
Then what does that make Kanan and Ezra?
Kanan is a Jedi, because he was trained in the Order and never left it. He's as much a Jedi as Obi-wan and Yoda, if a lower rank. Ezra is being trained by a Jedi, and seeking to be a Jedi. That makes him one as well. But if he was teaching himself? Not a Jedi, even if he was a good guy. Jedi is a particular tradition of Force use.
Origin for Dragon Age: Inquisition Shenanigans: Inksplat776
What the heck is a neutral Jedi and why are people saying Ashoka is one?
She is no longer Jedi and she is not Sith. Plus her lightsabers are white.
She's not in the Jedi Order, she can still be a Jedi without being in that group.
Its said by Fioni in Rebels Recon that her white light sabers are supposed to represent that she's not a Jedi or Sith.
And no, you can't really be a Jedi without being in the Order. Just like being an evil Force User doesn't make you a Sith. That is covered in the Clone Wars with Ventress.
Then what does that make Kanan and Ezra?
Kanan is a Jedi, because he was trained in the Order and never left it. He's as much a Jedi as Obi-wan and Yoda, if a lower rank. Ezra is being trained by a Jedi, and seeking to be a Jedi. That makes him one as well. But if he was teaching himself? Not a Jedi, even if he was a good guy. Jedi is a particular tradition of Force use.
Yeah
Ashoka
would be a Force User or Force Adept just as the Inquisitor is a Force User/Adept. Jedi and Sith are but official orders of Force Users the same way all Catholics are Christian but Christians aren't Catholics.
One could technically argue that, as there is no Jedi Order, there are no Jedi... just scattered individuals trained or training in the Jedi tradition.
Its said by Fioni in Rebels Recon that her white light sabers are supposed to represent that she's not a Jedi or Sith.
And no, you can't really be a Jedi without being in the Order. Just like being an evil Force User doesn't make you a Sith. That is covered in the Clone Wars with Ventress.
Wonder what happened to Ventress or if we'll ever see her again in this new canon. Based off only what I've seen/know in the Clone Wars series I always imagined Ashoka and Ventress crossing paths again after leaving their respective orders, being on misadventures together or something.
Its said by Fioni in Rebels Recon that her white light sabers are supposed to represent that she's not a Jedi or Sith.
And no, you can't really be a Jedi without being in the Order. Just like being an evil Force User doesn't make you a Sith. That is covered in the Clone Wars with Ventress.
Wonder what happened to Ventress or if we'll ever see her again in this new canon. Based off only what I've seen/know in the Clone Wars series I always imagined Ashoka and Ventress crossing paths again after leaving their respective orders, being on misadventures together or something.
Ventress actually has a novel coming out this year.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Just got to see the season finale.
Holy shit, that hit all the old-school Star Wars feels like somebody bullseying womprats in their T-16 back home. Damn was that fantastic. Even the dueling was pretty much maximum great! Quick without being spastic, and the absurd ultra-flippy-flaily stuff extremely toned down in favor of, well, an actual fight. With the Star Destroyer scenery and TIE fighters and the music, it didn't just look like classic Star Wars, it actually felt like it.
I like how Kanan loses his fear of Ezra when the guy fell only like 10 feet... You can still see him down there, knocked out. I'd be worried more if one of my friends fell and didn't move even from that height. Seriously?
His response...
Kanan thought Ezra was dead, dude. You fall from twice your height, and EMS considers it a life-threatening injury. You're not supposed to move around at all, because you could have broken your neck.
I like how Kanan loses his fear of Ezra when the guy fell only like 10 feet... You can still see him down there, knocked out. I'd be worried more if one of my friends fell and didn't move even from that height. Seriously?
His response...
Kanan thought Ezra was dead, dude. You fall from twice your height, and EMS considers it a life-threatening injury. You're not supposed to move around at all, because you could have broken your neck.
I like how Kanan loses his fear of Ezra when the guy fell only like 10 feet... You can still see him down there, knocked out. I'd be worried more if one of my friends fell and didn't move even from that height. Seriously?
His response...
Kanan thought Ezra was dead, dude. You fall from twice your height, and EMS considers it a life-threatening injury. You're not supposed to move around at all, because you could have broken your neck.
I thought it was more that
The angles made it hard to see.
And Kanan was probably a bit busy to see if Ezra managed to hit the convenient plot catwalk, or if he had fallen all the way down the reactor shaft. You know, with the Inquisitor trying to kill him and all.
I like how Kanan loses his fear of Ezra when the guy fell only like 10 feet... You can still see him down there, knocked out. I'd be worried more if one of my friends fell and didn't move even from that height. Seriously?
His response...
Kanan thought Ezra was dead, dude. You fall from twice your height, and EMS considers it a life-threatening injury. You're not supposed to move around at all, because you could have broken your neck.
My back porch is higher off the ground and I've fallen from it many times drunk. No way anyone that Ezra was dead. I'm sorry.
There were some missed opportunities in the finale.
They set up a reference with Tarkin with the guy saying they had to evacuate... and then didn't go anywhere with it. No "Evacuate? In our moment of *explosion* on second thought, evacuate!" or him swearing never again as they fly off, nothing.
Also there was clearly an opportunity for a moment whete Kanan thinks Ezra's Force Ghost is talking to him but then he's actually just standing right behind him.
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
There were some missed opportunities in the finale.
They set up a reference with Tarkin with the guy saying they had to evacuate... and then didn't go anywhere with it. No "Evacuate? In our moment of *explosion* on second thought, evacuate!" or him swearing never again as they fly off, nothing.
Also there was clearly an opportunity for a moment whete Kanan thinks Ezra's Force Ghost is talking to him but then he's actually just standing right behind him.
Would Kanan know about Force Ghosts? I think they're pretty rare at this point. IIRC, Qui-Gon is the "first" Jedi in the PT to learn the skill, and he (as a ghost) teaches Yoda, who makes a mention later to Obi-Wan about "special training" which is presumably how to prepare himself for Ghostin' as well. Which means at the end of the PT, it's just those three.
Kanan should, theoretically, have no idea it's a thing.
There were some missed opportunities in the finale.
They set up a reference with Tarkin with the guy saying they had to evacuate... and then didn't go anywhere with it. No "Evacuate? In our moment of *explosion* on second thought, evacuate!" or him swearing never again as they fly off, nothing.
Also there was clearly an opportunity for a moment whete Kanan thinks Ezra's Force Ghost is talking to him but then he's actually just standing right behind him.
Would Kanan know about Force Ghosts? I think they're pretty rare at this point. IIRC, Qui-Gon is the "first" Jedi in the PT to learn the skill, and he (as a ghost) teaches Yoda, who makes a mention later to Obi-Wan about "special training" which is presumably how to prepare himself for Ghostin' as well. Which means at the end of the PT, it's just those three.
Kanan should, theoretically, have no idea it's a thing.
I have no idea what you are talking about. All jedi can become Force Ghosts when they die.
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
There were some missed opportunities in the finale.
They set up a reference with Tarkin with the guy saying they had to evacuate... and then didn't go anywhere with it. No "Evacuate? In our moment of *explosion* on second thought, evacuate!" or him swearing never again as they fly off, nothing.
Also there was clearly an opportunity for a moment whete Kanan thinks Ezra's Force Ghost is talking to him but then he's actually just standing right behind him.
Would Kanan know about Force Ghosts? I think they're pretty rare at this point. IIRC, Qui-Gon is the "first" Jedi in the PT to learn the skill, and he (as a ghost) teaches Yoda, who makes a mention later to Obi-Wan about "special training" which is presumably how to prepare himself for Ghostin' as well. Which means at the end of the PT, it's just those three.
Kanan should, theoretically, have no idea it's a thing.
I have no idea what you are talking about. All jedi can become Force Ghosts when they die.
They can in the OT era.
And the old EU.
In the PT movies, and the new EU? I don't think that that's clear.
Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
Nope. Even the last episodes of the Clone Wars makes it clear that Jedi do not normally become Force Ghosts. The entire council thinks Yoda is going crazy when he says Qui Gon was speaking to him.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited March 2015
In the OT era, there's a total of three Jedi who become Force ghosts: two who have been trained by the original Force ghost on the methods of how to become a Force ghost, and space Jesus.
That doesn't mean all Jedi can, just that the three shown to do it are able to because of special circumstances.
In the OT era, there's a total of three Jedi who become Force ghosts: two who have been trained by the original Force ghost on the methods of how to become a Force ghost, and space Jesus.
That doesn't mean all Jedi can, just that the three shown to do it are able to because of special circumstances.
Depending on what's in canon at the moment, Qui-Gon Jinn either invented or rediscovered the technique necessary for becoming a force ghost. In the "rediscovered" version of the story, its implied losing and forgetting the ability to merge with the force on death was a sign that Jedi Order had lost its way.
In the OT era, there's a total of three Jedi who become Force ghosts: two who have been trained by the original Force ghost on the methods of how to become a Force ghost, and space Jesus.
That doesn't mean all Jedi can, just that the three shown to do it are able to because of special circumstances.
Depending on what's in canon at the moment, Qui-Gon Jinn either invented or rediscovered the technique necessary for becoming a force ghost. In the "rediscovered" version of the story, its implied losing and forgetting the ability to merge with the force on death was a sign that Jedi Order had lost its way.
Clone Wars is canon, and it's the only thing that deals with it. Yoda goes and finds a species or whatever that only exist as Force Ghosts now. They had been teaching Qui-Gon before he died. They then teaches Obi-wan Yoda. That is how it is.
Anakin manages it because he essentially naturally faced the same lessons by falling to the dark side and coming back from it.
InkSplat on
Origin for Dragon Age: Inquisition Shenanigans: Inksplat776
Well you aren't going to get any new content that isn't based heavily on what Disney/Lucas Arts has narrowed into canon. They literally don't care about what isn't canon.
There were some missed opportunities in the finale.
They set up a reference with Tarkin with the guy saying they had to evacuate... and then didn't go anywhere with it. No "Evacuate? In our moment of *explosion* on second thought, evacuate!" or him swearing never again as they fly off, nothing.
Also there was clearly an opportunity for a moment whete Kanan thinks Ezra's Force Ghost is talking to him but then he's actually just standing right behind him.
Would Kanan know about Force Ghosts? I think they're pretty rare at this point. IIRC, Qui-Gon is the "first" Jedi in the PT to learn the skill, and he (as a ghost) teaches Yoda, who makes a mention later to Obi-Wan about "special training" which is presumably how to prepare himself for Ghostin' as well. Which means at the end of the PT, it's just those three.
Kanan should, theoretically, have no idea it's a thing.
I have no idea what you are talking about. All jedi can become Force Ghosts when they die.
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The only time Luke was ever really in danger of falling was during the final Duel with Vader and the Emperor egging him on, and Vader threatened to go after Leia if Luke wouldn't turn.
Not him actually falling. They were trying to convince the audience how close to toeing the line he was.
And Luke trying to convince Jabba the same. So I agree with you both.
First, choking someone is violent as hell. You can't choke someone without some sort of violent angry boiling up inside. Even if it's part of sex, it's classified as "Rough Sex". I'd never would classify Force Choke as anything but Dark Side.
Also, being angry and using the anger to supercharge your Force Powers are completely different. You see Mace and Yoda both angry in the prequels. But you never see them use the Force while angry. Luke, however, is shown many times using his rage and fear to power his Force Powers, which leads to the Dark Side (because your emotions are controlling your actions, not you.)
On the last episode
And no, you can't really be a Jedi without being in the Order. Just like being an evil Force User doesn't make you a Sith. That is covered in the Clone Wars with Ventress.
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Kanan is a Jedi, because he was trained in the Order and never left it. He's as much a Jedi as Obi-wan and Yoda, if a lower rank. Ezra is being trained by a Jedi, and seeking to be a Jedi. That makes him one as well. But if he was teaching himself? Not a Jedi, even if he was a good guy. Jedi is a particular tradition of Force use.
Yeah
Ventress actually has a novel coming out this year.
Holy shit, that hit all the old-school Star Wars feels like somebody bullseying womprats in their T-16 back home. Damn was that fantastic. Even the dueling was pretty much maximum great! Quick without being spastic, and the absurd ultra-flippy-flaily stuff extremely toned down in favor of, well, an actual fight. With the Star Destroyer scenery and TIE fighters and the music, it didn't just look like classic Star Wars, it actually felt like it.
Is it time for Season 2 yet?
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I thought it was more that
And Kanan was probably a bit busy to see if Ezra managed to hit the convenient plot catwalk, or if he had fallen all the way down the reactor shaft. You know, with the Inquisitor trying to kill him and all.
Begun, the fan art has.
Also there was clearly an opportunity for a moment whete Kanan thinks Ezra's Force Ghost is talking to him but then he's actually just standing right behind him.
Would Kanan know about Force Ghosts? I think they're pretty rare at this point. IIRC, Qui-Gon is the "first" Jedi in the PT to learn the skill, and he (as a ghost) teaches Yoda, who makes a mention later to Obi-Wan about "special training" which is presumably how to prepare himself for Ghostin' as well. Which means at the end of the PT, it's just those three.
Kanan should, theoretically, have no idea it's a thing.
I have no idea what you are talking about. All jedi can become Force Ghosts when they die.
They can in the OT era.
And the old EU.
In the PT movies, and the new EU? I don't think that that's clear.
That doesn't mean all Jedi can, just that the three shown to do it are able to because of special circumstances.
Depending on what's in canon at the moment, Qui-Gon Jinn either invented or rediscovered the technique necessary for becoming a force ghost. In the "rediscovered" version of the story, its implied losing and forgetting the ability to merge with the force on death was a sign that Jedi Order had lost its way.
Not very much.
Anakin manages it because he essentially naturally faced the same lessons by falling to the dark side and coming back from it.
Effective short list is: the six movies, the clone wars animated series and movie, Rebels, and the various books and comics released since 2014.
Then you shouldn't be talking about Star Wars story?
What's canon determines whether your hypothesis is true or not. In the Legends continuity it's true, in Disney's it's not.
What hypothesis?