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I'm saying Anders AND the Chantry are responsible for Kirkwall terrorism. Anders is responsible for pulling the trigger. The Chantry is responsible for oppressing him his entire life.
Two of these examples are so far back in history that no one really knows the deets—you might as well say "free mages are awesome—just look at Andraste!" One of them is a dude committing political assassination on behalf of the oppressed, which required neither magic nor a mage. So that leaves us with two, the spoiler one is new and scary and the other is the usual complication, but without knowing the relative incidence rate of the latter or all the extenuating, untold circumstances implicit in Thedas, we can't say much meaningful about it.
I mean: how much are spirits shaped by the thoughts or approach of people? Does the Circle increase or decrease the likelihood of problems? Is the Harrowing actually very effective or the best option for preparing someone for demons? How often are abominations and instability rather than human rights violations an issue in Tevinter? The Dalish? What was it like before the Circles? Would it be different if the cultural view of mages and the Fade was different? How much does the Fade reflect society—if dreaming dwarves meant rocks wouldn't float, what would it mean for spirits if everyone believed as Solas does?
You can't just let mages do anything because they are fundamentally different in a dangerous way that requires mitigation. On the other hand, "reform the Circles" usually sounds like "do the same thing minus the rape/abuse/exploitation/lobotomies," but other than waving those away with a wand, how will that be done? I'm not convinced the problems with the Templars or Seekers are down to individuals rather than humanity, particularly when the system relies on drug addiction and the intended combination of [power over/emotional distance from/cohabitation with] wards.
That's a bad recipe.
And that's putting it mildly.
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Why should all mages be punished for the action of Anders?
Why do you assume that more countries HAVE to fall to out of control mages? It's not inevitable that societies without shackled mages will immediately spin out of control.
I don't think Anders was justified in his actions. Killing innocent people is VERY, VERY hard to justify. It just so happened that his plan worked as he intended it to.
It's not a question of if, but of when.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Well I haven't gotten that far, so we'll see.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
My bad. It's so hard to keep track of who is where in the game.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
There's a difference between the causation and correlation of "societies that fall are ran by humans" and "these societies summon magic that destroyed them every time".
It wasn't that the "societies had free mages, therefore fell". It's that "societies with free mages will use magic freely, then fall" There is no correlation here, the magic was directly responsible for their destruction.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Societies imploding isn't an inherent part of magic in this universe. I can quite easily imagine a path towards free mages and a stable society. It's a slow process, and it involves dismantling the Chantry and the Qun.
Yes
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And I can already see the complaints. What? You'd let mages police THEMSELVES?
Yes, because since appreantly magical crackheads are acceptable as a policing agency, I don't see why mages can't be.
You have to assume that there will be no mages that are assholes in the future.
How many mage assholes does it take to fuck things up? And how do you control them?
There are only two things that can stop an asshole mage on a consistent basis. Templars, and a more powerful mage.
It only takes one mage to fuck everything up for everyone. And if that one mages is using blood magic...
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
But neither fell because of magic, and Tevinter didn't actually fall, it still exists.
The one was oppressing itself, starting wars, and being terrible, and put itself in a bad state by the time humans came in and finished the job.
The other fell due to darkspawn, and as been discussed, it's actually not even entirely certain Tevinter was the cause of the darkspawn in the first place. They did bad stuff absolutely, many of their magisters were terrible and did terrible things, but others are no worse than those in Orlais.
Both are functional societies full of terrible people who hold themselves above the "common folk". That Tevinter isn't at the height of its power anymore is certainly telling, but they also didn't vanish into nothingness either.
The problem with Tevinter was not and is not mages as such.
It got me stuck between the walls and now I have to reload.
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Therefore...?
At least until the Ottomans Qunari get together and finally wreck their shit
You may not agree with how they do things or like them, but yes, Tevinter, as an empire, is still doing ok. They have been actively repelling on again/off again invasion for quite some time, and are still powerful enough that places like Orlais don't really want to directly confront them.
Tevinter's slavery/classism issues aren't really relegated to the use of magic. Magic just happens to be what they use for their dumb class system. It could easily be land ownership or political power (like it is in the real world).
Plus the threadbare historical examples don't add much to the argument, because the problem mages do present in power/blood magic/possession are all apparent on the surface and in repeat circumstance in the game timelines.
Also, unrelated, but Solas personal quest:
Yep!
That's... not an ideal to aspire to.
It's okay if non-Mages are treated horribly! As long as mages don't have to live in a tower where they're educated and people can make sure that they don't turn into abominations. Because that's oppression.
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Modern Tevinter's bullshit isn't okay, but it also shows that a society with free mages doesn't have to be anarchy.
These are separate points.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
Actually, if you talk to Dorian you find that it's not even that. Mages in Tevinter are treated like crap too unless they happen to be members of certain houses/bloodlines. It's almost exactly like Orlais is, except that having magical aptitude is put out as as much of a myth as winning the lotto. You get to be part of the elite! Except it means you're just going to be someone's peon in a magical sense, not just a tailor or whatever.
The slavery part is obviously a terrible thing, but again, nothing to do with magic.
Tevinter would be just as terrible without magic, it would just be Orlais with slaves. You can even see a lot of that with Dorian and Vivian's banter, the worlds they both come from are almost entirely the same.
Your stance on personal responsibility is pretty juvenile. It doesn't work that way in any world, real or imagined.
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