Race is not an objective category, appearance or phenotype is what leads observers to place other people in a racial group
And it can be stressing for people to be constantly reminded of their perceived otherness
I don't think it's necessarily "bad" to use race as a descriptory shorthand, especially in a place like the US where racial categories heavily overlap with idenitities, but one should be aware of all the problems which come with it
Race is not an objective category, appearance or phenotype is what leads observers to place other people in a racial group
And it can be stressing for people to be constantly reminded of their perceived otherness
I don't think it's necessarily "bad" to use race as a descriptory shorthand, especially in a place like the US where racial categories heavily overlap with idenitities, but one should be aware of all the problems which come with it
An interesting and useful thing about this thread (and I guess others like it) is that I can look back on times in my life where 'the patriarchy' has fucked me over personally.
To pick the epiphany freshest in my mind, the discussion a few pages back about someone's sister flipping out at her for speaking bluntly, and how women are (and men aren't) so frequently punushed for doing so from an early age, leading them to reflexively speak indirectly, eupemistically or just not at all about important things.
It's good that I understand that now. It sure would have been super great if I had understood it back in the day when the horrible spiral* of mis-and non-communication started to open between me and the person I loved most in the world.
I was just a dumb kid who was lucky enough to have parents who encouraged me to say what I thought was right even if everyone else disagreed, and didn't really understand why everyone didn't do the same. You can call that privilege if you like, although I'd rather call it a basic right for any child. What the fuck did I know about patriarchy?
Shit.
*The less she said, the more frustrated and angry I got, the less she said.
Race is not an objective category, appearance or phenotype is what leads observers to place other people in a racial group
And it can be stressing for people to be constantly reminded of their perceived otherness
I don't think it's necessarily "bad" to use race as a descriptory shorthand, especially in a place like the US where racial categories heavily overlap with idenitities, but one should be aware of all the problems which come with it
Hm, that is true!
The racial descriptor, for me, was when I realized I was using it for minorities but NOT using it for Caucasians in the exact same circumstances.
For example, if I was describing almost getting run off the road by some crazy driver to a friend, and the driver was white, it was just "this fucking guy etc" but if the driver was black it was "this fucking black guy etc". I was using the descriptor in a situation that made zero difference; both guys were assholes.
Saying "that black guy over there in the striped shirt and blue glasses carrying that pomeranian" in a room full of people is not really an issue.
Race is not an objective category, appearance or phenotype is what leads observers to place other people in a racial group
And it can be stressing for people to be constantly reminded of their perceived otherness
I don't think it's necessarily "bad" to use race as a descriptory shorthand, especially in a place like the US where racial categories heavily overlap with idenitities, but one should be aware of all the problems which come with it
Hm, that is true!
The racial descriptor, for me, was when I realized I was using it for minorities but NOT using it for Caucasians in the exact same circumstances.
For example, if I was describing almost getting run off the road by some crazy driver to a friend, and the driver was white, it was just "this fucking guy etc" but if the driver was black it was "this fucking black guy etc". I was using the descriptor in a situation that made zero difference; both guys were assholes.
Saying "that black guy over there in the striped shirt and blue glasses carrying that pomeranian" in a room full of people is not really an issue.
Yeah! I was thinking purely in the second instance, not the first, like you say in the first instance it doesn't really matter what the person looks like. I can't recall doing that, but I could be not remembering.
If anyone would like to read a good book about ethnicitiy and race, I can only recommend this one
Race, much like gender, is something which happens, not something which is there
And what drives a lot of conflict is when these group-ings are thought of as cohesive, homogenous entities which are then cast as actors
+1
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FortyTwostrongest man in the world The Land of Pleasant Living Registered Userregular
so some Gamergate rag blog is circulating a story about PAX's no booth babe policy as if it were new. Some men are just FURIOUS at the prospect of this.
it gives me crazy bad chills when I see a man and woman walking together and he's holding her by the back of the neck and she's smiling
I mean, I get the overall sentiment and the cultural point of this post and feeling.
But, for me personally, I like the feeling of my husband's hand on the back of my neck. It's a comforting feeling for me. And no I can't explain why, it's just something that feels good.
And seeing posts like this and people agreeing to posts like this are part of what makes me so damned hesitant to post in these threads sometimes. Because I'm obviously just not 'woman' enough since I don't feel that this is some violation of myself.
it gives me crazy bad chills when I see a man and woman walking together and he's holding her by the back of the neck and she's smiling
I mean, I get the overall sentiment and the cultural point of this post and feeling.
But, for me personally, I like the feeling of my husband's hand on the back of my neck. It's a comforting feeling for me. And no I can't explain why, it's just something that feels good.
And seeing posts like this and people agreeing to posts like this are part of what makes me so damned hesitant to post in these threads sometimes. Because I'm obviously just not 'woman' enough since I don't feel that this is some violation of myself.
Nobody should ever really tell you or try to make you feel that you're doing feminism wrong
it gives me crazy bad chills when I see a man and woman walking together and he's holding her by the back of the neck and she's smiling
I mean, I get the overall sentiment and the cultural point of this post and feeling.
But, for me personally, I like the feeling of my husband's hand on the back of my neck. It's a comforting feeling for me. And no I can't explain why, it's just something that feels good.
And seeing posts like this and people agreeing to posts like this are part of what makes me so damned hesitant to post in these threads sometimes. Because I'm obviously just not 'woman' enough since I don't feel that this is some violation of myself.
I think thats completely down to the couple. I like it when a guy puts his arm round my shoulder as we walk because a) I'm really goddamn short and its easier than holding hands, and b) its a feeling of being protected/comfort.
There's a big difference between possession and clear comfort/sharing space. You are not less of a woman for having a personal preference! No one can ever call you more/less of a woman.
it gives me crazy bad chills when I see a man and woman walking together and he's holding her by the back of the neck and she's smiling
I mean, I get the overall sentiment and the cultural point of this post and feeling.
But, for me personally, I like the feeling of my husband's hand on the back of my neck. It's a comforting feeling for me. And no I can't explain why, it's just something that feels good.
And seeing posts like this and people agreeing to posts like this are part of what makes me so damned hesitant to post in these threads sometimes. Because I'm obviously just not 'woman' enough since I don't feel that this is some violation of myself.
Post. Post post post. Disagree. It's completely fine. Your experience is no less important.
And, because you posted that, I know to clarify what I'm saying. The action I'm calling out here is the guys who are literally grabbing the neck of the woman, like in a grip, and clearly controlling where they go. I think I know what you're saying too (hell I could be wrong!) but hand on the back of the neck is not quite what gives me the shivers. But yes, I could have been more clear. I also see couples walking with the hand simply resting on the back of the neck and that's very intimate and sweet.
it gives me crazy bad chills when I see a man and woman walking together and he's holding her by the back of the neck and she's smiling
I mean, I get the overall sentiment and the cultural point of this post and feeling.
But, for me personally, I like the feeling of my husband's hand on the back of my neck. It's a comforting feeling for me. And no I can't explain why, it's just something that feels good.
And seeing posts like this and people agreeing to posts like this are part of what makes me so damned hesitant to post in these threads sometimes. Because I'm obviously just not 'woman' enough since I don't feel that this is some violation of myself.
Hey
Nah! Fuck 'em! Your feminism is your feminism, whether that means you want a traditional home life, or you want to shave your head and go GI Jane, or somewhere in between! That's the beauty of feminism, is as long as you're choosing it, then it's completely 100% a feminist thing.
(I or others could also expound on the submissive feminist thing and how tough that can be to mentally come to terms with, but that's perhaps not a discussion for a 13+ forum)
+19
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ArtreusI'm a wizardAnd that looks fucked upRegistered Userregular
I feel like the only ones you can really say 100% are doing feminism wrong are TERFs
it gives me crazy bad chills when I see a man and woman walking together and he's holding her by the back of the neck and she's smiling
I mean, I get the overall sentiment and the cultural point of this post and feeling.
But, for me personally, I like the feeling of my husband's hand on the back of my neck. It's a comforting feeling for me. And no I can't explain why, it's just something that feels good.
And seeing posts like this and people agreeing to posts like this are part of what makes me so damned hesitant to post in these threads sometimes. Because I'm obviously just not 'woman' enough since I don't feel that this is some violation of myself.
Hey
Nah! Fuck 'em! Your feminism is your feminism, whether that means you want a traditional home life, or you want to shave your head and go GI Jane, or somewhere in between! That's the beauty of feminism, is as long as you're choosing it, then it's completely 100% a feminist thing.
(I or others could also expound on the submissive feminist thing and how tough that can be to mentally come to terms with, but that's perhaps not a discussion for a 13+ forum)
it gives me crazy bad chills when I see a man and woman walking together and he's holding her by the back of the neck and she's smiling
I mean, I get the overall sentiment and the cultural point of this post and feeling.
But, for me personally, I like the feeling of my husband's hand on the back of my neck. It's a comforting feeling for me. And no I can't explain why, it's just something that feels good.
And seeing posts like this and people agreeing to posts like this are part of what makes me so damned hesitant to post in these threads sometimes. Because I'm obviously just not 'woman' enough since I don't feel that this is some violation of myself.
Post. Post post post. Disagree. It's completely fine. Your experience is no less important.
And, because you posted that, I know to clarify what I'm saying. The action I'm calling out here is the guys who are literally grabbing the neck of the woman, like in a grip, and clearly controlling where they go. I think I know what you're saying too (hell I could be wrong!) but hand on the back of the neck is not quite what gives me the shivers. But yes, I could have been more clear. I also see couples walking with the hand simply resting on the back of the neck and that's very intimate and sweet.
Ugh uuugh. At first I was like "I like when my wife has her hand on the back of my nexk and vice cersa too, I wonder if this looks awful etc." but I hadn't even thought about it the other way you're describing, and now I'm thinking about all the times I've seen it.
Usually the "c'mon babe it's time to go" middle of an argument thing and yeah that's creepy.
it gives me crazy bad chills when I see a man and woman walking together and he's holding her by the back of the neck and she's smiling
I mean, I get the overall sentiment and the cultural point of this post and feeling.
But, for me personally, I like the feeling of my husband's hand on the back of my neck. It's a comforting feeling for me. And no I can't explain why, it's just something that feels good.
And seeing posts like this and people agreeing to posts like this are part of what makes me so damned hesitant to post in these threads sometimes. Because I'm obviously just not 'woman' enough since I don't feel that this is some violation of myself.
deciding for yourself what you like is feminism.
Other people probably covering this better, so I thought i'd try to put it into words simply. Other people's standards on what's woman enough, or what feminism must be to qualify, all assume that they get to define those things for someone else. And that's bullshit.
If I was at a place full of white people and one black guy I would most likely say "the black guy" if I didn't know his name because it would be the easiest way to describe who I mean. Is that really a bad thing?
I don't think so. I mean, essentially what is problematic with describing people by their race is that white is considered the norm, in most western cultures at least. so most people are not, typically, putting 'white' before many people they describe because they don't think about whiteness as an important descriptor.
there's also racial bias and stereotyping as undercurrents, like using their race as shorthand to their entire appearance, and/or the way they talk.
Ohhh okay I get this.
Yeah, what with race being the basis for all that darned racism, I figure saying "the black guy" is no better (or probably even worse) than saying "the Jew" or "the gay".
However if there is a gay black Jew at your party and you don't know their name, what the hell are you doing? There must be a million fascinating stories they have just waiting for the telling, go and introduce yourself to them post haste!
The main issue I see with using race as a descriptor for a person is that it presumes white at the default, and anything else as an 'other'.
It was interesting how blatant this was in Japan, if you are Japanese well, they would just say hito, or person. If you weren't? Gaikokujin (if you they were feeling polite) which translates literally to foreign country person.
As for race in the states, I'm Cuban but look white, the number of people that have said to me, upon me telling them I am Cuban, something along the lines of "yeah but not really, I mean, you're white" is distressingly high.
On that note, what's with telling white people they're white but "not really white?" Or that somebody else (who is actually 1/4 Hawaiian but identifies as white) is whiter than you, and you're not *really* white?
Like, I don't understand what it means, or why you would say this to somebody. Is it an insult? A compliment? A comment on behavior? An attempt to mess with my 1/4 Hawaiian roommate? What?
(Just to be clear, it was a person of color saying this every time.)
it gives me crazy bad chills when I see a man and woman walking together and he's holding her by the back of the neck and she's smiling
I mean, I get the overall sentiment and the cultural point of this post and feeling.
But, for me personally, I like the feeling of my husband's hand on the back of my neck. It's a comforting feeling for me. And no I can't explain why, it's just something that feels good.
And seeing posts like this and people agreeing to posts like this are part of what makes me so damned hesitant to post in these threads sometimes. Because I'm obviously just not 'woman' enough since I don't feel that this is some violation of myself.
Hey
Nah! Fuck 'em! Your feminism is your feminism, whether that means you want a traditional home life, or you want to shave your head and go GI Jane, or somewhere in between! That's the beauty of feminism, is as long as you're choosing it, then it's completely 100% a feminist thing.
(I or others could also expound on the submissive feminist thing and how tough that can be to mentally come to terms with, but that's perhaps not a discussion for a 13+ forum)
The main issue I see with using race as a descriptor for a person is that it presumes white at the default, and anything else as an 'other'.
It was interesting how blatant this was in Japan, if you are Japanese well, they would just say hito, or person. If you weren't? Gaikokujin (if you they were feeling polite) which translates literally to foreign country person.
As for race in the states, I'm Cuban but look white, the number of people that have said to me, upon me telling them I am Cuban, something along the lines of "yeah but not really, I mean, you're white" is distressingly high.
latino/hispanic is no longer considered a race. cuban is more specific than those though
Posts
Yeah that's definitely a "but if we give poor people money they'll just use it to buy drugs and big screen TVs!" attitude.
Race is not an objective category, appearance or phenotype is what leads observers to place other people in a racial group
And it can be stressing for people to be constantly reminded of their perceived otherness
I don't think it's necessarily "bad" to use race as a descriptory shorthand, especially in a place like the US where racial categories heavily overlap with idenitities, but one should be aware of all the problems which come with it
Hm, that is true!
To pick the epiphany freshest in my mind, the discussion a few pages back about someone's sister flipping out at her for speaking bluntly, and how women are (and men aren't) so frequently punushed for doing so from an early age, leading them to reflexively speak indirectly, eupemistically or just not at all about important things.
It's good that I understand that now. It sure would have been super great if I had understood it back in the day when the horrible spiral* of mis-and non-communication started to open between me and the person I loved most in the world.
I was just a dumb kid who was lucky enough to have parents who encouraged me to say what I thought was right even if everyone else disagreed, and didn't really understand why everyone didn't do the same. You can call that privilege if you like, although I'd rather call it a basic right for any child. What the fuck did I know about patriarchy?
Shit.
*The less she said, the more frustrated and angry I got, the less she said.
Don't we all, buddy
The racial descriptor, for me, was when I realized I was using it for minorities but NOT using it for Caucasians in the exact same circumstances.
For example, if I was describing almost getting run off the road by some crazy driver to a friend, and the driver was white, it was just "this fucking guy etc" but if the driver was black it was "this fucking black guy etc". I was using the descriptor in a situation that made zero difference; both guys were assholes.
Saying "that black guy over there in the striped shirt and blue glasses carrying that pomeranian" in a room full of people is not really an issue.
Yeah! I was thinking purely in the second instance, not the first, like you say in the first instance it doesn't really matter what the person looks like. I can't recall doing that, but I could be not remembering.
But I can certainly see the point made by Platy!
Race, much like gender, is something which happens, not something which is there
And what drives a lot of conflict is when these group-ings are thought of as cohesive, homogenous entities which are then cast as actors
Fortytwo's blog about fatherhood, life, and everything.
I mean, I get the overall sentiment and the cultural point of this post and feeling.
But, for me personally, I like the feeling of my husband's hand on the back of my neck. It's a comforting feeling for me. And no I can't explain why, it's just something that feels good.
And seeing posts like this and people agreeing to posts like this are part of what makes me so damned hesitant to post in these threads sometimes. Because I'm obviously just not 'woman' enough since I don't feel that this is some violation of myself.
Democrats Abroad! || Vote From Abroad
Nobody should ever really tell you or try to make you feel that you're doing feminism wrong
I think thats completely down to the couple. I like it when a guy puts his arm round my shoulder as we walk because a) I'm really goddamn short and its easier than holding hands, and b) its a feeling of being protected/comfort.
There's a big difference between possession and clear comfort/sharing space. You are not less of a woman for having a personal preference! No one can ever call you more/less of a woman.
And fuck that
Also, best Adult Wednesday Addams Quote:
"Are you really going to go in there and murder your unborn child?!"
"It wasn't on my agenda... but it is my day off."
Especially signs and things regarded as signs are inherently ambiguous
Boooo.
Post. Post post post. Disagree. It's completely fine. Your experience is no less important.
And, because you posted that, I know to clarify what I'm saying. The action I'm calling out here is the guys who are literally grabbing the neck of the woman, like in a grip, and clearly controlling where they go. I think I know what you're saying too (hell I could be wrong!) but hand on the back of the neck is not quite what gives me the shivers. But yes, I could have been more clear. I also see couples walking with the hand simply resting on the back of the neck and that's very intimate and sweet.
Hey
Nah! Fuck 'em! Your feminism is your feminism, whether that means you want a traditional home life, or you want to shave your head and go GI Jane, or somewhere in between! That's the beauty of feminism, is as long as you're choosing it, then it's completely 100% a feminist thing.
(I or others could also expound on the submissive feminist thing and how tough that can be to mentally come to terms with, but that's perhaps not a discussion for a 13+ forum)
cause fuckem
So I guess she isn't a real person?
are you smashing the patriarchy? --> if YES, carry on feminist
if NO --> smash the patriarchy
13+ Forum? *furiously scrubs entire post history*
what is terf
iirc Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist? It's basically ones that shit all over Trans folk, so fuck them seriously
Ugh uuugh. At first I was like "I like when my wife has her hand on the back of my nexk and vice cersa too, I wonder if this looks awful etc." but I hadn't even thought about it the other way you're describing, and now I'm thinking about all the times I've seen it.
Usually the "c'mon babe it's time to go" middle of an argument thing and yeah that's creepy.
Steam ID: Obos Vent: Obos
https://galoremag.com/jazz-jennings-transgender-teen-is-the-newest-face-of-clean-clear/
deciding for yourself what you like is feminism.
Other people probably covering this better, so I thought i'd try to put it into words simply. Other people's standards on what's woman enough, or what feminism must be to qualify, all assume that they get to define those things for someone else. And that's bullshit.
Yeah, what with race being the basis for all that darned racism, I figure saying "the black guy" is no better (or probably even worse) than saying "the Jew" or "the gay".
However if there is a gay black Jew at your party and you don't know their name, what the hell are you doing? There must be a million fascinating stories they have just waiting for the telling, go and introduce yourself to them post haste!
It was interesting how blatant this was in Japan, if you are Japanese well, they would just say hito, or person. If you weren't? Gaikokujin (if you they were feeling polite) which translates literally to foreign country person.
As for race in the states, I'm Cuban but look white, the number of people that have said to me, upon me telling them I am Cuban, something along the lines of "yeah but not really, I mean, you're white" is distressingly high.
Like, I don't understand what it means, or why you would say this to somebody. Is it an insult? A compliment? A comment on behavior? An attempt to mess with my 1/4 Hawaiian roommate? What?
(Just to be clear, it was a person of color saying this every time.)
latino/hispanic is no longer considered a race. cuban is more specific than those though
Sometimes it confuses people
No it's not.
Steam ID - VeldrinD | SS Post | Wishlist