Getting two shadowforms off Nefarian would actually be pretty sweet. In the next turn you can do the hero-power->shadowform->hero-power->shadowform->hero-power combo, and that late in the game being able to cast a dark bomb every turn without spending a card is probably a good thing.
If you believe the text of the shadowform card: "Your Hero Power becomes 'Deal 2 damage'. If already in Shadowform: 3 damage.", then it would be an amazing draw off of Nefarian because it works for any class. Getting two would amazing.
@TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
Getting two shadowforms off Nefarian would actually be pretty sweet. In the next turn you can do the hero-power->shadowform->hero-power->shadowform->hero-power combo, and that late in the game being able to cast a dark bomb every turn without spending a card is probably a good thing.
If you believe the text of the shadowform card: "Your Hero Power becomes 'Deal 2 damage'. If already in Shadowform: 3 damage.", then it would be an amazing draw off of Nefarian because it works for any class. Getting two would amazing.
It defo works for any class. One of the cheeses for heroic naxx was giving the bosses a shadowform with cho, which they'll use even if their normal hero power is better.
Edit: Plus I'm pretty sure they have color-inverted art for all the heroes in case that happens.
Nefarian seems super fun, but I doubt he will ever be competitive. Much for the reasons elucidated earlier in the thread, basically anything at 9 mana without an instant effect that interacts with the board probably will never see play. Especially considering he is vulnerable to BGH.
I think the biggest winner with the hold a dragon mechanic will be druid, simply because with savage roar/force of nature (+acceleration) being the most competitive druid deck. Druid wants to control the board an whittle down an opponents life total down. Mana acceleration and hold a dragon bonus' getting bigger bodies on the field earlier that are harder to deal with will be very strong for combo druid. I could see Druid adding Onyxia to that deck with whatever are the most efficient/scary hold a dragon cards from the expansion. Also, Druid can mitigate the cost of Ony with their acceleration and the whelps are huge with savage roar.
Until the meta slows down or the hold a dragon cards mitigate or are just that much better than deathrattle minions, the hold a dragon mechanic won't affect things that much.
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
Drakonid Crusher is the first "finisher" type card that gets stronger the weaker your opponent. Every other innate card buff out there is made to bridge the gap between players. Molten Giant, Mortal Strike, etc help the player if their health is low. There are minions that get buffed if your opponent has a lot of cards (aka card advantage).
I think this is the first instance of a card being buffed by the opponent's weakness.
A list of the cards that you can pull with Nefarian. I think the expected value is better than average considering that you'll play him in the context of a control deck—late-game scenario.
Nefarian isn't a potentially great card like Rag in that you get immediate value when he's on the board. He's a potentially great card like Azure Drake or Neptulon in that he's (virtually) guaranteed card advantage assuming you're in a position to survive to take advantage of those cards. This is the modus operandi of late-game decks, so it's not an unreasonable value proposition.
That being said, he will be fairly meta-dependent. But from what we've seen so far, BRM is poised to give late-game decks more variety and strength, so I fully expect things to drift more towards the late-game once all the expansion cards are out at the end of April.
@TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
A list of the cards that you can pull with Nefarian. I think the expected value is better than average considering that you'll play him in the context of a control deck—late-game scenario.
Nefarian isn't a potentially great card like Rag in that you get immediate value when he's on the board. He's a potentially great card like Azure Drake or Neptulon in that he's (virtually) guaranteed card advantage assuming you're in a position to survive to take advantage of those cards. This is the modus operandi of late-game decks, so it's not an unreasonable value proposition.
That being said, he will be fairly meta-dependent. But from what we've seen so far, BRM is poised to give late-game decks more variety and strength, so I fully expect things to drift more towards the late-game once all the expansion cards are out at the end of April.
I'm a little iffy on some of those decisions there. Shadow Madness should definitely be top-tier, and certainly above Mind Games. It's silly you have wild growth as top-tier and flare as mid-tier because by the time you play Nefarian wild growth is a 2-mana cycle with no benefit, whereas flare still has its situational benefit. I'd think Bite to be top-tier as well--it's pretty good removal/health gain if you don't actually have to put it in your deck.
That said, thanks for putting all the spells out like that, makes it a lot easier to visualize the options. I'm probably going to play Nefarian in some of my decks because I'm a dirty priest-picker who loves stuff like that.
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38thDoelets never be stupid againwait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered Userregular
I guess my issue with it is, If its turn 9 I need something to play:
If I'm winning, it probably doesn't really matter, but I think Ysera lends inevitability, plus safety from BGH/Death etc. The shrinkmeister cabal combo is pretty rare from my recent play.
If I'm behind, well consecration/equality, twisting nether, maybe flamestrike, lit storm, shadowflame, depending on what you are going to die from might save you, but the odds are probably better to pull Ysera Awakens if you need to clear the other side.
A list of the cards that you can pull with Nefarian. I think the expected value is better than average considering that you'll play him in the context of a control deck—late-game scenario.
Nefarian isn't a potentially great card like Rag in that you get immediate value when he's on the board. He's a potentially great card like Azure Drake or Neptulon in that he's (virtually) guaranteed card advantage assuming you're in a position to survive to take advantage of those cards. This is the modus operandi of late-game decks, so it's not an unreasonable value proposition.
That being said, he will be fairly meta-dependent. But from what we've seen so far, BRM is poised to give late-game decks more variety and strength, so I fully expect things to drift more towards the late-game once all the expansion cards are out at the end of April.
I'm a little iffy on some of those decisions there. Shadow Madness should definitely be top-tier, and certainly above Mind Games. It's silly you have wild growth as top-tier and flare as mid-tier because by the time you play Nefarian wild growth is a 2-mana cycle with no benefit, whereas flare still has its situational benefit. I'd think Bite to be top-tier as well--it's pretty good removal/health gain if you don't actually have to put it in your deck.
That said, thanks for putting all the spells out like that, makes it a lot easier to visualize the options. I'm probably going to play Nefarian in some of my decks because I'm a dirty priest-picker who loves stuff like that.
Yeah, that was just an exercise to see what all the spells were. The super bad worthless cards are definitely in the minority save for rogue (if you aren't a weapon class). So that's some good news, at least.
For the rankings, I'm assuming you'll be playing Nefarian on turn 9. So Shadow Madness doesn't get the swing value like it would in the mid-game. The best scenario I can think of is the anti-belcher play, but that only makes it "ok" in my book at best. The way I evaluated the cards were "how do I feel when I see this card on turn 9" which makes things like repentance and such more interesting because they should be getting a decent bit of value.
@TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
I'm salty they're adding still more ITS RANDOM LOL cards, but only about half of the spells are ones you would actually want, and you have to pay full price for them, so on average it's probably not going to be that good.
Keep in mind that even if they're a "Bad" spell, most of them are still worth a card -- just not good enough to make the cut for a constructed deck. For example, Neptulon gives Murlocs which are also not usually worth putting in a deck, but the effect is still pretty powerful. I guess the question is, how many of them are just situationally useless? Divine Favor in a control deck probably doesn't do anything. Things like Shadow Step, Preparation, or Innervate are also pretty situational. On the other hand, "Bad" cards like heals or Far Sight aren't that bad when they didn't take up a spot in your deck. I think the biggest issue, is just like any other random effect, it probably won't synergize with your deck very often.
I'm salty they're adding still more ITS RANDOM LOL cards, but only about half of the spells are ones you would actually want, and you have to pay full price for them, so on average it's probably not going to be that good.
Keep in mind that even if they're a "Bad" spell, most of them are still worth a card -- just not good enough to make the cut for a constructed deck. For example, Neptulon gives Murlocs which are also not usually worth putting in a deck, but the effect is still pretty powerful. I guess the question is, how many of them are just situationally useless? Divine Favor in a control deck probably doesn't do anything. Things like Shadow Step, Preparation, or Innervate are also pretty situational. On the other hand, "Bad" cards like heals or Far Sight aren't that bad when they didn't take up a spot in your deck. I think the biggest issue, is just like any other random effect, it probably won't synergize with your deck very often.
Was going to say pretty much this about Nefarian - a lot of spells that are considered bad are not bad per se, it's just that they don't really fit in a deck but can still be good when played. Granted you will still get some duds, but the chances are you will still get value out of the 2 spells, plus you have a big body down too. Similar to Unstable portal, you pull a lot of stuff that you wouldn't put in a deck but they can swing the game - I think it's a good card, could have been top tier if there was a 1 mana reduction on the spells or the card it's self was 1 mana less.
The drake will see play I think, not just in dragon decks. You only have to trade 1-1 with an enemy minion to get him out for 4, combos well with token decks, UTH etc. Will also be good in arena.
Crusher is good as a card you want to keep in your hand for the dragon synergy, but even unbuffed a 6/6 for 6 is not too bad.
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
Yo guys. Hungry Dragon on turn 4 -> kill the 1-drop with it turn 5, play the 6-cost morbid dragon. SYNERGY, YO.
Sorry, I was a bit slow of wit there. Maybe I'm so used to playing greedy control decks, the notion of a card that's best when sitting uselessly in the hand seemed legit!
Interesting that three of the four classes with strong control archetypes, Druid, Priest, and Paladin (sorry Warrior!) haven't had any of their class cards revealed yet.
IF any classes were to get synergy with the dragon tribal, my bet would be on any of those. Guess we'll find out next week.
They have the same mechanic, but Volcanic Drake makes much more sense to me than Dragon's Breath. You spend a turn on a big board clear then drop a solid body on top of the ashes.
Thoughtsteal might have the better effect since you're taking only from the pool of cards that your opponent deemed "good enough" to slot into his deck, but there is one slight advantage Nef has over Thoughtsteal - if you play Thoughtsteal late game and the opponent has no cards left in his deck, you get nothing. A version that grabbed only spells would likely risk coming up short more often. Nef at least guarantees that you get 2 cards when you play him.
I'm running Neptulon. He's definitely a late game card (7 mana + 3 overload). I would certainly be giving Nef a try in that deck. For 1 it already has 2 BGH targets, so a 3rd is fine, although I would probably replace one of the late game cards with Nef, since I already run into issues of not enough early game. The cards you get from Neptulon are generally pretty good. Most of the time I can get 3 4/4s on the board.
Thoughtsteal might have the better effect since you're taking only from the pool of cards that your opponent deemed "good enough" to slot into his deck, but there is one slight advantage Nef has over Thoughtsteal - if you play Thoughtsteal late game and the opponent has no cards left in his deck, you get nothing. A version that grabbed only spells would likely risk coming up short more often. Nef at least guarantees that you get 2 cards when you play him.
another slight advantage nef has over thoughtsteal: he has an attack and health value
Thoughtsteal might have the better effect since you're taking only from the pool of cards that your opponent deemed "good enough" to slot into his deck, but there is one slight advantage Nef has over Thoughtsteal - if you play Thoughtsteal late game and the opponent has no cards left in his deck, you get nothing. A version that grabbed only spells would likely risk coming up short more often. Nef at least guarantees that you get 2 cards when you play him.
another slight advantage nef has over thoughtsteal: he has an attack and health value
Not according to the majority of comments I've read about how viable he is.
Its not like BGH is the only reason 9 mana 8/8s aren't great - there's plenty of potential ways to shut down one big dude, ranging from Aldor Peacekeeper to Sap to your common Sludge Belcher and Annoy-o-tron.
Its not like BGH is the only reason 9 mana 8/8s aren't great - there's plenty of potential ways to shut down one big dude, ranging from Aldor Peacekeeper to Sap to your common Sludge Belcher and Annoy-o-tron.
It's hard to see how it's going to shake out, but Naxx is one of the best investments in the game, money-wise. If BRM has similar staple cards, then it might be a good value. (Although I'm still planning on paying with gold, but then again, I haven't spent a dime on this game.)
As far as your collection goes, 57 cards for $25, with 5 guaranteed legendaries and no duplicates, so probably better "value" then packs, but more expensive per card. But you also know what you're getting, so you can easily pass if there's little to nothing of interest. Oh, and also the PVE content.
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If you believe the text of the shadowform card: "Your Hero Power becomes 'Deal 2 damage'. If already in Shadowform: 3 damage.", then it would be an amazing draw off of Nefarian because it works for any class. Getting two would amazing.
It defo works for any class. One of the cheeses for heroic naxx was giving the bosses a shadowform with cho, which they'll use even if their normal hero power is better.
Edit: Plus I'm pretty sure they have color-inverted art for all the heroes in case that happens.
I think the biggest winner with the hold a dragon mechanic will be druid, simply because with savage roar/force of nature (+acceleration) being the most competitive druid deck. Druid wants to control the board an whittle down an opponents life total down. Mana acceleration and hold a dragon bonus' getting bigger bodies on the field earlier that are harder to deal with will be very strong for combo druid. I could see Druid adding Onyxia to that deck with whatever are the most efficient/scary hold a dragon cards from the expansion. Also, Druid can mitigate the cost of Ony with their acceleration and the whelps are huge with savage roar.
Until the meta slows down or the hold a dragon cards mitigate or are just that much better than deathrattle minions, the hold a dragon mechanic won't affect things that much.
I think this is the first instance of a card being buffed by the opponent's weakness.
http://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/30ewn7/list_of_spells_you_can_pull_with_nefarian/
A list of the cards that you can pull with Nefarian. I think the expected value is better than average considering that you'll play him in the context of a control deck—late-game scenario.
Nefarian isn't a potentially great card like Rag in that you get immediate value when he's on the board. He's a potentially great card like Azure Drake or Neptulon in that he's (virtually) guaranteed card advantage assuming you're in a position to survive to take advantage of those cards. This is the modus operandi of late-game decks, so it's not an unreasonable value proposition.
That being said, he will be fairly meta-dependent. But from what we've seen so far, BRM is poised to give late-game decks more variety and strength, so I fully expect things to drift more towards the late-game once all the expansion cards are out at the end of April.
I'm a little iffy on some of those decisions there. Shadow Madness should definitely be top-tier, and certainly above Mind Games. It's silly you have wild growth as top-tier and flare as mid-tier because by the time you play Nefarian wild growth is a 2-mana cycle with no benefit, whereas flare still has its situational benefit. I'd think Bite to be top-tier as well--it's pretty good removal/health gain if you don't actually have to put it in your deck.
That said, thanks for putting all the spells out like that, makes it a lot easier to visualize the options. I'm probably going to play Nefarian in some of my decks because I'm a dirty priest-picker who loves stuff like that.
If I'm winning, it probably doesn't really matter, but I think Ysera lends inevitability, plus safety from BGH/Death etc. The shrinkmeister cabal combo is pretty rare from my recent play.
If I'm behind, well consecration/equality, twisting nether, maybe flamestrike, lit storm, shadowflame, depending on what you are going to die from might save you, but the odds are probably better to pull Ysera Awakens if you need to clear the other side.
Yeah, that was just an exercise to see what all the spells were. The super bad worthless cards are definitely in the minority save for rogue (if you aren't a weapon class). So that's some good news, at least.
For the rankings, I'm assuming you'll be playing Nefarian on turn 9. So Shadow Madness doesn't get the swing value like it would in the mid-game. The best scenario I can think of is the anti-belcher play, but that only makes it "ok" in my book at best. The way I evaluated the cards were "how do I feel when I see this card on turn 9" which makes things like repentance and such more interesting because they should be getting a decent bit of value.
Keep in mind that even if they're a "Bad" spell, most of them are still worth a card -- just not good enough to make the cut for a constructed deck. For example, Neptulon gives Murlocs which are also not usually worth putting in a deck, but the effect is still pretty powerful. I guess the question is, how many of them are just situationally useless? Divine Favor in a control deck probably doesn't do anything. Things like Shadow Step, Preparation, or Innervate are also pretty situational. On the other hand, "Bad" cards like heals or Far Sight aren't that bad when they didn't take up a spot in your deck. I think the biggest issue, is just like any other random effect, it probably won't synergize with your deck very often.
Was going to say pretty much this about Nefarian - a lot of spells that are considered bad are not bad per se, it's just that they don't really fit in a deck but can still be good when played. Granted you will still get some duds, but the chances are you will still get value out of the 2 spells, plus you have a big body down too. Similar to Unstable portal, you pull a lot of stuff that you wouldn't put in a deck but they can swing the game - I think it's a good card, could have been top tier if there was a 1 mana reduction on the spells or the card it's self was 1 mana less.
The drake will see play I think, not just in dragon decks. You only have to trade 1-1 with an enemy minion to get him out for 4, combos well with token decks, UTH etc. Will also be good in arena.
Crusher is good as a card you want to keep in your hand for the dragon synergy, but even unbuffed a 6/6 for 6 is not too bad.
Sorry, I was a bit slow of wit there. Maybe I'm so used to playing greedy control decks, the notion of a card that's best when sitting uselessly in the hand seemed legit!
IF any classes were to get synergy with the dragon tribal, my bet would be on any of those. Guess we'll find out next week.
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wra
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
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Thanks to @Teriferin for watching the carnage.
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
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Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
another slight advantage nef has over thoughtsteal: he has an attack and health value
Not according to the majority of comments I've read about how viable he is.
Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
to already having a board
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
It's hard to see how it's going to shake out, but Naxx is one of the best investments in the game, money-wise. If BRM has similar staple cards, then it might be a good value. (Although I'm still planning on paying with gold, but then again, I haven't spent a dime on this game.)
My opponent's turn 3 (or coined turn 2): Muster for Battle
My turn 3 (or coined turn 2): Unleash the Hounds, trade all minions, x2 Volcanic Drake
Is that an auto-concede right there?
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
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Wisp, wisp, pyro, equality, drake, drake
EDIT- Whoops, it's late. Add a Target dummy
Well, pyro-equality immediately wipes that turn 4.
EDIT 2 - I get bad at math when it's late
I'm finding, yes, I think?
Rarely does face hunter get to a highmane (if they even run those).
Mid-range hunters don't run scientists, right?
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wra
I feel it's pretty important to deny them the value
then they have to waste charges of their bow later
I run Mad Scientist in Midrange Hunter.
Depends what their turn 1 play was. If it was pass or webspinner, I wouldn't silence the scientist unless it was my only play.
If they played anything else on turn 1, I would silence the scientist, unless the alternative was pretty ridiculous value.
Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
As far as your collection goes, 57 cards for $25, with 5 guaranteed legendaries and no duplicates, so probably better "value" then packs, but more expensive per card. But you also know what you're getting, so you can easily pass if there's little to nothing of interest. Oh, and also the PVE content.
Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778