Nefarian could be REALLY GOOD (imagine getting like, a Frostbolt and a Fireball from a Mage), but could also be REALLY SHITTY (imagine getting Mirror Images and Arcane Explosion).
Vitality Totem. Turns out it was exactly what I needed to survive one more turn, because he had Gorehowl in hand, as well as Grommash + Whirlwind. My instant saltiness was compounded by the fact that I knew he had the Grommash in hand, because he had already hit me once for 17 damage with a once-in-a-lifetime Grommash+Taskmaster+Nightmare+Dream combo before I was able to steal his Ysera.
Yeah way too meh to turn things around for 9 cost.
9 cost, good lord.
RANDOM spells too... like... that doesn't sound good. Most class spells are pretty meh in general. Only 2-3 are good.
Also obviously not playable on the same turn unless you have innervate or something similar like concentration.
Yeah way too meh to turn things around for 9 cost.
9 cost, good lord.
RANDOM spells too... like... that doesn't sound good. Most class spells are pretty meh in general. Only 2-3 are good.
Also obviously not playable on the same turn unless you have innervate or something similar like concentration.
I mean, you might GET an Innervate if you're playing against druid.
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GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
Yeah way too meh to turn things around for 9 cost.
9 cost, good lord.
RANDOM spells too... like... that doesn't sound good. Most class spells are pretty meh in general. Only 2-3 are good.
Also obviously not playable on the same turn unless you have innervate or something similar like concentration.
That randomness is part of the strength though.
As a priest I play Thoughtsteal, get a secret from my Mage opponent and play it. That Mage knows what's in his deck and what's been played, so he likely knows what the secret is and can play around it.
With Nefarion it can be any secret available to mages. Are you playing into Spellbender or Counterspell, or is it Mirror Image? Duplicate or Iceblock? There's lots of conditions to check.
Some games you may get arcane missiles, but others you'll get Pyroblast.
Yeah way too meh to turn things around for 9 cost.
9 cost, good lord.
RANDOM spells too... like... that doesn't sound good. Most class spells are pretty meh in general. Only 2-3 are good.
Also obviously not playable on the same turn unless you have innervate or something similar like concentration.
That randomness is part of the strength though.
As a priest I play Thoughtsteal, get a secret from my Mage opponent and play it. That Mage knows what's in his deck and what's been played, so he likely knows what the secret is and can play around it.
With Nefarion it can be any secret available to mages. Are you playing into Spellbender or Counterspell, or is it Mirror Image? Duplicate or Iceblock? There's lots of conditions to check.
Some games you may get arcane missiles, but others you'll get Pyroblast.
But for 9 Mana I want something that provides either serious card advantage or guarantees me a good result.
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
Nefarion will fit in decks that want to use Neptulon but can't
Nef is more like KT than Maexxxxxxxna. If the conditions are right (board control for KT, OP spells for Nef) then you've pretty much sealed the game. If the conditions don't favor you (KT on empty board, shitty spells from Nef) then it's a sub-par play for that turn. KT is a little better cause he's more consistent, as you can more or less try to manage board control before you drop him, whereas Nef is a disciple of RNGesus.
And c'mon, he's a legendary dragon, of course he was going to cost 9 or more mana!
There's still 3 more legendaries to come, we may still get a "autoinclude" Loatheb style legendary.
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GrobianWhat's on sale?Pliers!Registered Userregular
edited March 2015
The 2 common drakes are both pretty good in arena.
Volcanic suffers in constructed because while a 6/4 for 4 is above curve (and getting a 2 mana reduction should be easy) it also dies to a lot of stuff. Dragon tribal might not be enough to save it.
Crusher will be auto include in dragon tribal decks at launch because it's a dragon that you actually want to hold in your hand for the right moment and that plays into the other cards. But you need an aggressive deck to play it early and later on it's just a fatty that has no immediate effect so I don't know if it's better than late game legendaries. You can combo it with charge and taskmaster though, so it's "build your own grommash"
I think you folks are overlooking the real value of Nefarian.
We have a bunch of cards in the upcoming set that go "If you have a dragon in your hand, do X". But dilemma: a lot of the dragons are pretty good. You're gonna want to drop Faerie Dragon. You're gonna want to drop Azure Drake. So you have this scenario where you're deciding if you want to hold on to them for some hypothetical future advantage, or drop them now for the immediate advantage.
You can't play Nefarian for most of the game, and even when you can, you won't want to. So there you go: Nefarian is a consistent activator for "If you have a dragon in hand" effects.
Yeah way too meh to turn things around for 9 cost.
9 cost, good lord.
RANDOM spells too... like... that doesn't sound good. Most class spells are pretty meh in general. Only 2-3 are good.
Also obviously not playable on the same turn unless you have innervate or something similar like concentration.
That randomness is part of the strength though.
As a priest I play Thoughtsteal, get a secret from my Mage opponent and play it. That Mage knows what's in his deck and what's been played, so he likely knows what the secret is and can play around it.
With Nefarion it can be any secret available to mages. Are you playing into Spellbender or Counterspell, or is it Mirror Image? Duplicate or Iceblock? There's lots of conditions to check.
Some games you may get arcane missiles, but others you'll get Pyroblast.
Thoughtsteal is amazing because you know you're getting good cards since they're in a deck.
The randomness will be SO random that odds are you get crap.
Either way, at 9 cost you still can't do anything with it.
In the current aggressive meta at least, he's just too slow.
If things slow down to where everyone is playing priest all day erry day, he can be OK.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
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imdointhisI should actually stop doin' this.Registered Userregular
Yeah way too meh to turn things around for 9 cost.
9 cost, good lord.
RANDOM spells too... like... that doesn't sound good. Most class spells are pretty meh in general. Only 2-3 are good.
Also obviously not playable on the same turn unless you have innervate or something similar like concentration.
That randomness is part of the strength though.
As a priest I play Thoughtsteal, get a secret from my Mage opponent and play it. That Mage knows what's in his deck and what's been played, so he likely knows what the secret is and can play around it.
With Nefarion it can be any secret available to mages. Are you playing into Spellbender or Counterspell, or is it Mirror Image? Duplicate or Iceblock? There's lots of conditions to check.
Some games you may get arcane missiles, but others you'll get Pyroblast.
Thoughtsteal is amazing because you know you're getting good cards since they're in a deck.
The randomness will be SO random that odds are you get crap.
Either way, at 9 cost you still can't do anything with it.
In the current aggressive meta at least, he's just too slow.
If things slow down to where everyone is playing priest all day erry day, he can be OK.
I do like the idea of having him being in your hand having a use though. As of now i think Bolvar is the only card that does anything positive when sitting in your hand, and I think Nef will fill that role. We'll have to see whether there are any other cards that will use the "if have a dragon in your hand" mechanic, but I don't think that you can look at Nef solely through the lens of his casting cost and be entirely fair.
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Nefarian is neat but probably ultimately not super useful.
Considering only 2 of the legendaries from Naxx see play though I'm not too surprised.
I think you folks are overlooking the real value of Nefarian.
We have a bunch of cards in the upcoming set that go "If you have a dragon in your hand, do X". But dilemma: a lot of the dragons are pretty good. You're gonna want to drop Faerie Dragon. You're gonna want to drop Azure Drake. So you have this scenario where you're deciding if you want to hold on to them for some hypothetical future advantage, or drop them now for the immediate advantage.
You can't play Nefarian for most of the game, and even when you can, you won't want to. So there you go: Nefarian is a consistent activator for "If you have a dragon in hand" effects.
This is an interesting point, but intuitively it seems to me I'd rather be holding Alex or Ysera for the dragon activation and guaranteed powerful effect. I guess some maths would need to be done on an expected average result of the spell cards gained. Also if Blizzard is going to keep making extremely swingy RNG cards, I'd much rather they be below par fun cards rather than tournament staples.
I'm salty they're adding still more ITS RANDOM LOL cards, but only about half of the spells are ones you would actually want, and you have to pay full price for them, so on average it's probably not going to be that good.
Poor Maexxna. Even in goofy decks she don't get no love.
I had her in my inner fire deck for a bit. She's pretty good at sticking around since most people won't trade into her with equal costed minions, and that's important for the combo.
Poor Maexxna. Even in goofy decks she don't get no love.
I had a few kodo valuegasms when it first came out. People don't run kodo anymore, but it would probably just get cabaled instead. God damn do I hate cabal.
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GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
After demonstrating my inability to read basic English, I'm a little hesitant to evaluate cards again, but Nefarian doesn't seem that bad. Ysera still sees play in some of the slower, greedier decks. I wonder if Nefarian can fit into a similar deck type. He gives you some cards and is a big body the opponent needs to answer.
Blizzard may be trying to slow the game back down with this expansion, incentivizing players to hold cards in their hand and exchange minions on the board to decrease the cost of other cards/spells. Maybe Nefarian will have a place in a slower meta?
After demonstrating my inability to read basic English, I'm a little hesitant to evaluate cards again, but Nefarian doesn't seem that bad. Ysera still sees play in some of the slower, greedier decks. I wonder if Nefarian can fit into a similar deck type. He gives you some cards and is a big body the opponent needs to answer.
Blizzard may be trying to slow the game back down with this expansion, incentivizing players to hold cards in their hand and exchange minions on the board to decrease the cost of other cards/spells. Maybe Nefarian will have a place in a slower meta?
The difference is that all the cards Ysera can give you are very good (even Laughing Sister, which people hate on, is a 3/5 with Shroud for 3 mana, amazing stats for cost), whereas there are plenty of crappy spells in each class. Imagine Nefarian giving you two Shadowforms, and you're playing Druid. Blade Flurry and Deadly Poison, and you're playing Mage. Mirror Image and Arcane Explosion. Etc.
As others have said, Thoughtsteal is good because it takes from their deck, so you'll probably grab good cards because people don't generally put shitty cards in their deck. Nefarian just grabs cards from the ether, and there are lots of bad spells out there to grab. The closest thing is actually Unstable Portal, and it at least creates minions; a bad minion is still way better than a bad/useless spell (and, they cost in total 1 less so it's still a tempo gain).
Also an 8/8 is very vulnerable to BGH or other big removal, and his immediate effect has a substantial chance of giving you two completely worthless cards. I doubt he'll see much play.
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
Getting two shadowforms off Nefarian would actually be pretty sweet. In the next turn you can do the hero-power->shadowform->hero-power->shadowform->hero-power combo, and that late in the game being able to cast a dark bomb every turn without spending a card is probably a good thing.
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lwt1973King of ThievesSyndicationRegistered Userregular
Why thank you, face hunter, for using your Arcane Golem. Now I can Holy Nova this turn, instead of having to wait a whole other turn.
"He's sulking in his tent like Achilles! It's the Iliad?...from Homer?! READ A BOOK!!" -Handy
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imdointhisI should actually stop doin' this.Registered Userregular
also accidently hitting their face instead of sludgebelcher is an application
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
Posts
I must sadly admit that I get none of those references, but I shall pound on my chest regardless.
I forgot to mention the best part of those 4 games earlier; they only took 20 minutes combined. Nice!
And I'm thinking about swapping out the Ogre War Maul. That 50% miss chance has lost me games in the past. Maybe another damage or removal option?
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
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Volcanic Drake
Drakonid Crusher
Nerfarian (i.e., card advantage)
Put your faith in the RNG, I suppose.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Vitality Totem. Turns out it was exactly what I needed to survive one more turn, because he had Gorehowl in hand, as well as Grommash + Whirlwind. My instant saltiness was compounded by the fact that I knew he had the Grommash in hand, because he had already hit me once for 17 damage with a once-in-a-lifetime Grommash+Taskmaster+Nightmare+Dream combo before I was able to steal his Ysera.
WoWtcg and general gaming podcast
WoWtcg and gaming website
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
9 cost, good lord.
RANDOM spells too... like... that doesn't sound good. Most class spells are pretty meh in general. Only 2-3 are good.
Also obviously not playable on the same turn unless you have innervate or something similar like concentration.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
That randomness is part of the strength though.
As a priest I play Thoughtsteal, get a secret from my Mage opponent and play it. That Mage knows what's in his deck and what's been played, so he likely knows what the secret is and can play around it.
With Nefarion it can be any secret available to mages. Are you playing into Spellbender or Counterspell, or is it Mirror Image? Duplicate or Iceblock? There's lots of conditions to check.
Some games you may get arcane missiles, but others you'll get Pyroblast.
But for 9 Mana I want something that provides either serious card advantage or guarantees me a good result.
And c'mon, he's a legendary dragon, of course he was going to cost 9 or more mana!
There's still 3 more legendaries to come, we may still get a "autoinclude" Loatheb style legendary.
Volcanic suffers in constructed because while a 6/4 for 4 is above curve (and getting a 2 mana reduction should be easy) it also dies to a lot of stuff. Dragon tribal might not be enough to save it.
Crusher will be auto include in dragon tribal decks at launch because it's a dragon that you actually want to hold in your hand for the right moment and that plays into the other cards. But you need an aggressive deck to play it early and later on it's just a fatty that has no immediate effect so I don't know if it's better than late game legendaries. You can combo it with charge and taskmaster though, so it's "build your own grommash"
We have a bunch of cards in the upcoming set that go "If you have a dragon in your hand, do X". But dilemma: a lot of the dragons are pretty good. You're gonna want to drop Faerie Dragon. You're gonna want to drop Azure Drake. So you have this scenario where you're deciding if you want to hold on to them for some hypothetical future advantage, or drop them now for the immediate advantage.
You can't play Nefarian for most of the game, and even when you can, you won't want to. So there you go: Nefarian is a consistent activator for "If you have a dragon in hand" effects.
Thoughtsteal is amazing because you know you're getting good cards since they're in a deck.
The randomness will be SO random that odds are you get crap.
Either way, at 9 cost you still can't do anything with it.
In the current aggressive meta at least, he's just too slow.
If things slow down to where everyone is playing priest all day erry day, he can be OK.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
Coin -> Warmaul -> Dread Pirate
hey look im a mech a mage! lulz
I do like the idea of having him being in your hand having a use though. As of now i think Bolvar is the only card that does anything positive when sitting in your hand, and I think Nef will fill that role. We'll have to see whether there are any other cards that will use the "if have a dragon in your hand" mechanic, but I don't think that you can look at Nef solely through the lens of his casting cost and be entirely fair.
Considering only 2 of the legendaries from Naxx see play though I'm not too surprised.
This is an interesting point, but intuitively it seems to me I'd rather be holding Alex or Ysera for the dragon activation and guaranteed powerful effect. I guess some maths would need to be done on an expected average result of the spell cards gained. Also if Blizzard is going to keep making extremely swingy RNG cards, I'd much rather they be below par fun cards rather than tournament staples.
I took her out of my beast Druid deck. I still run cobras in there, they are plain better.
I had her in my inner fire deck for a bit. She's pretty good at sticking around since most people won't trade into her with equal costed minions, and that's important for the combo.
Blizzard may be trying to slow the game back down with this expansion, incentivizing players to hold cards in their hand and exchange minions on the board to decrease the cost of other cards/spells. Maybe Nefarian will have a place in a slower meta?
I actually just did this against a Mech Mage and won. Maybe I'll keep the Maul around a bit longer.
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
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The difference is that all the cards Ysera can give you are very good (even Laughing Sister, which people hate on, is a 3/5 with Shroud for 3 mana, amazing stats for cost), whereas there are plenty of crappy spells in each class. Imagine Nefarian giving you two Shadowforms, and you're playing Druid. Blade Flurry and Deadly Poison, and you're playing Mage. Mirror Image and Arcane Explosion. Etc.
As others have said, Thoughtsteal is good because it takes from their deck, so you'll probably grab good cards because people don't generally put shitty cards in their deck. Nefarian just grabs cards from the ether, and there are lots of bad spells out there to grab. The closest thing is actually Unstable Portal, and it at least creates minions; a bad minion is still way better than a bad/useless spell (and, they cost in total 1 less so it's still a tempo gain).
Also an 8/8 is very vulnerable to BGH or other big removal, and his immediate effect has a substantial chance of giving you two completely worthless cards. I doubt he'll see much play.
"accidentally"
(I have double heroic striked to face past a sludge belcher using a warmaul before)