I'll spoiler this for those who are watching later...
Veratappen to win, which would be amazing.
I'd quite like Ricciado to get it as well, never thought I'd see the day when I was cheering for a Red Bull with 100% sincerity
Riccardo is a good dude though, so really easy to cheer for him. Vettel is a lot more palatable at Ferrari as well, something to never thought I would say.
Really hoping Haas has sorted their car issues from practice and qualifying, this is a good chance for Grosjean to keep racking up points,
When Hamilton and Rossberg took each other out (because, let's face it, they were both at fault), the emotions i felt and the sounds I made that they corresponded to would have made quite a silly youtube video. Oh well, opportunity missed.
I beg to differ. It was fun and exciting, sure, but I think it could be, and has been, better.
The finish, while great and exciting, ended up being a perfect example of why making these cars more and more aero dependent has ended up turning into a mistake. One I really hope FIA Officials learn from. They either need more mechanical and less aero grip, or they need a whole new class of tracks better designed to deal with the realities of a car this (and even more) aero dependent. That front straight today, coupled with the final turn sequence, was just too short to make passing possible. Had it been just a tad longer the drivers would have been able to actually execute the pass instead of being forced to try dive bombing the first turn (Looking at you, Ricciardo).
US Commentators were complaining about this during the last 15 laps the race, too. Raikkonen was fighting the car in the turns because he couldn't get the same aero grip when within ~.6 seconds of Verstappen. That final turn sequence, Raikkonen would enter it .4 or so behind, and then come out .7 behind which was .2 seconds too far behind to make that pass. There was also a few times he'd enter it .7 or so behind and exit it at .6, but this was also just too far behind to make the pass on the length of that front straight. I believe Raikkonen was faster, and probably had the better car, but the track was against him today.
It's still mostly a game of follow the leader, it's just better concealed at the moment.
That track has always had that characteristic; it predates the Tilkedrome era and has largely gone unchanged, apart from the introduction of the final chicane and the tightening up of turn 10. But passing has always been difficult for F1 cars there, and that is exacerbated by its use as the default - and now practically exclusive - testing track. The teams know it inside out and back to front, which has a definite knock-on effect.
As such, Spanish Grands Prix don't tend to be the most exciting. It's actually a bit odd that such a track has had a lengthy string - ten races now - of throwing up a different winner every time.
It reminded me today of the Italian GP some years ago - 2010, I think, pre-DRS but when the notorious F-duct was in play - when it was between Button in the McLaren and Alonso in the Ferrari. They chased each other so hard all race, but the only actual change of position came in the single pit stop. I didn't care - their joust was absolutely mesmerising the whole time.
And this race more or less doubled up on that. If Verstappen had slipped up at all, Raikkonen was going to pounce. Ditto Vettel and Ricciardo. But it was down to the guy behind to pressure the guy in front to make a mistake, and for the guy in front to hold his nerve.
And yes, the Ferrari was the quicker car. But that's no guarantee of getting in front if the lead driver gets it right. (Mansell and Senna at Monaco comes to mind). It made it extra impressive that Ricciardo managed to hound Vettel as well as he did before the puncture came (and thankfully didn't actually cost him any places in the end). And, because of the track's nature as a place where it's so hard to overtake, the DRS doesn't make it a foregone conclusion like it often does. The drivers have to do it old-school. And they did.
And this time they got to do it with the win at stake, rather than a distant third behind the all-conquering Mercs.
Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Best race of the season so far, right there, I think.
I got spoiled on the ending this morning (I can't watch the race until I get home from work) and even knowing the end I was still on the edge of my seat the whole time.
I picked McLaren as my team last year when I started watching, but Max as the scrappy youngster has always been fun to watch and now, with this win, I'm firmly in the Verstappen fan camp.
It's battles that make racing exciting, not just the overtakes themselves. One little mistake by either Max or Seb could have drastically changed the result of the race. We had two quality fights going for the big points, not just some fight over 6th or something. Vettel looked a chance of winning all the way to a dozen or so laps left. Ricciardo up until the last 6-7. Kimi could have won all the way up until the last corner. And while neither Danny or Kimi successfully overtook it is some of the closest racing we've had in years with drivers managing to follow within about half a second for several laps at a time. Other tracks that would easily following close enough to make a solid overtaking opportunity.
Yup. It was nice to have some proper battles, real tooth-and-nail furballs that weren't over in a flash with a DRS pass down into a hairpin. Twenty-plus-lap scraps that could have gone either way on the tiniest mistake... and multiple ones at that, not even just one.
Well I just finished this race. I recorded it on the DVR. This is the first FI race I got to watch if forever. I just changed my cable package to be able to watch, and wow. I had to rewind the first crash. Even though I knew it would be seen a lot.
As I'm new to watching FI, I didn't even know what DRS was till I looked it up. I have also not followed so know nothing of who is who. I will say though, I like Red Bull, well because they are Red Bull. Think I'm going to follow that team just cause.
As for the not passing, I have to agree with people saying all it would take is one mistake. If the leader of either pair had slipped up just a bit, that would have been a change of position. I can only imagine holding that line for 16 more laps after all ready doing 50 on tires that are getting worse isn't an easy task.
Anyway, another thread I guess I will have to be stopping by. I might have questions on how things work as I'm new to actually following FI and not just wishing I could from a far and catching a race once in a while.
Amazing race. Sad that I had it spoiled before I could watch it, but still quite a show!
And yes, they need to take a hard look at how difficult to follow it is in the current regs: The air is dirty and hot ( :winky: ) so you get less aero and also trash your tires faster. So unless you're completely superior it's really hard to get an actual fight going. Heck, even among Mercs you know the one behind is on the losing end of the fight.
Also apparently the upgraded Renault is pretty good.
I swear if the end of this season and next season starts being some young kid in a Red Bull just walking away with every race, over his Australian team-mate...
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Also apparently the upgraded Renault is pretty good.
I swear if the end of this season and next season starts being some young kid in a Red Bull just walking away with every race, over his Australian team-mate...
I would like nothing better than Hamilton to get schooled by an 18 year old kid.
Also apparently the upgraded Renault is pretty good.
I swear if the end of this season and next season starts being some young kid in a Red Bull just walking away with every race, over his Australian team-mate...
I'm fine with Red Bull winning all the time. I'm all for young kids coming in and ruling the race too.
After 2010-13, I never thought I'd find myself saying a youngster (as pointed out, with a talented Aussie teammate) running off into the distance in a Red Bull half the time would be a refreshing change.
I might have questions on how things work as I'm new to actually following FI and not just wishing I could from a far and catching a race once in a while.
Welcome! And feel free to ask as much as you like.
After 2010-13, I never thought I'd find myself saying a youngster (as pointed out, with a talented Aussie teammate) running off into the distance in a Red Bull half the time would be a refreshing change.
I might have questions on how things work as I'm new to actually following FI and not just wishing I could from a far and catching a race once in a while.
Welcome! And feel free to ask as much as you like.
SnicketysnickThe Greatest Hype Man inWesterosRegistered Userregular
Sebastian Vettel was in pretty much the same situation as Lewis Hamilton/Nico Rosberg are in now, an absolutely dominant car, to the point of it being really boring to watch. The only thing that stopped it was a regs change that led to the almost fairytale rise of Braun from the ashes of an offseason team implosion and their subsequent development into the current Mercedes team.
Vettel & Red Bull won four years on the bounce but they weren't consistently as dominant as Mercedes have been since 2014. In 2010 and 2012, they had to fight down to the last race for the championships (in 2010, at the last race, four guys (Vettel, Webber, Hamilton, Alonso) across three teams (Red Bull, McLaren, Ferrari) were still in contention, it was anything but clear-cut). Admittedly they pretty much walked it in 2011 and 2013 but Mercedes now are making those Red Bulls look ropey. Which they obviously weren't.
F1's always had dominant teams in different eras but rarely as much as Mercedes are now.
Sebastian Vettel was in pretty much the same situation as Lewis Hamilton/Nico Rosberg are in now, an absolutely dominant car, to the point of it being really boring to watch. The only thing that stopped it was a regs change that led to the almost fairytale rise of Braun from the ashes of an offseason team implosion and their subsequent development into the current Mercedes team.
Not quite. The regs change and Brawn winning the title happened before Sebastian Vettel won his first title.
If anything it was that regs change that gave Red Bull the chance to catch up on development disadvantage in the old regulations, to Ferrari and McLaren, and led to them being at the front of the pack and Sebs titles.
Edit:
Mercedes didn't do much up until the latest regs change which brought in the Turbo Engines, which funnily enough wasn't to stop Red Bull winning it was because Renault complained that the engine regs didn't correspond to road cars, in fact they threatened to pull out of the sport if the engine regulations weren't adopted... and then look what happened. All the lulz
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So Verstappen seems to be fitting in with the new team reasonably well.
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
Really hoping Haas has sorted their car issues from practice and qualifying, this is a good chance for Grosjean to keep racking up points,
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
I'm stunned, speechless...
Still awesome.
ahahahahahahahahahahahah
AHAHAHAHAHAHA
Holy shit
The hug from Marco.
That look in his eyes on the podium, and his father tearing up.
Goddamn this is so awesome.
Just... wow. So much wow.
Steam | XBL
Steam | XBL
Just like Ferrari.
I beg to differ. It was fun and exciting, sure, but I think it could be, and has been, better.
The finish, while great and exciting, ended up being a perfect example of why making these cars more and more aero dependent has ended up turning into a mistake. One I really hope FIA Officials learn from. They either need more mechanical and less aero grip, or they need a whole new class of tracks better designed to deal with the realities of a car this (and even more) aero dependent. That front straight today, coupled with the final turn sequence, was just too short to make passing possible. Had it been just a tad longer the drivers would have been able to actually execute the pass instead of being forced to try dive bombing the first turn (Looking at you, Ricciardo).
US Commentators were complaining about this during the last 15 laps the race, too. Raikkonen was fighting the car in the turns because he couldn't get the same aero grip when within ~.6 seconds of Verstappen. That final turn sequence, Raikkonen would enter it .4 or so behind, and then come out .7 behind which was .2 seconds too far behind to make that pass. There was also a few times he'd enter it .7 or so behind and exit it at .6, but this was also just too far behind to make the pass on the length of that front straight. I believe Raikkonen was faster, and probably had the better car, but the track was against him today.
It's still mostly a game of follow the leader, it's just better concealed at the moment.
As such, Spanish Grands Prix don't tend to be the most exciting. It's actually a bit odd that such a track has had a lengthy string - ten races now - of throwing up a different winner every time.
It reminded me today of the Italian GP some years ago - 2010, I think, pre-DRS but when the notorious F-duct was in play - when it was between Button in the McLaren and Alonso in the Ferrari. They chased each other so hard all race, but the only actual change of position came in the single pit stop. I didn't care - their joust was absolutely mesmerising the whole time.
And this race more or less doubled up on that. If Verstappen had slipped up at all, Raikkonen was going to pounce. Ditto Vettel and Ricciardo. But it was down to the guy behind to pressure the guy in front to make a mistake, and for the guy in front to hold his nerve.
And yes, the Ferrari was the quicker car. But that's no guarantee of getting in front if the lead driver gets it right. (Mansell and Senna at Monaco comes to mind). It made it extra impressive that Ricciardo managed to hound Vettel as well as he did before the puncture came (and thankfully didn't actually cost him any places in the end). And, because of the track's nature as a place where it's so hard to overtake, the DRS doesn't make it a foregone conclusion like it often does. The drivers have to do it old-school. And they did.
And this time they got to do it with the win at stake, rather than a distant third behind the all-conquering Mercs.
I loved it.
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I got spoiled on the ending this morning (I can't watch the race until I get home from work) and even knowing the end I was still on the edge of my seat the whole time.
I picked McLaren as my team last year when I started watching, but Max as the scrappy youngster has always been fun to watch and now, with this win, I'm firmly in the Verstappen fan camp.
Legendary.
Steam | XBL
As I'm new to watching FI, I didn't even know what DRS was till I looked it up. I have also not followed so know nothing of who is who. I will say though, I like Red Bull, well because they are Red Bull. Think I'm going to follow that team just cause.
As for the not passing, I have to agree with people saying all it would take is one mistake. If the leader of either pair had slipped up just a bit, that would have been a change of position. I can only imagine holding that line for 16 more laps after all ready doing 50 on tires that are getting worse isn't an easy task.
Anyway, another thread I guess I will have to be stopping by. I might have questions on how things work as I'm new to actually following FI and not just wishing I could from a far and catching a race once in a while.
And yes, they need to take a hard look at how difficult to follow it is in the current regs: The air is dirty and hot ( :winky: ) so you get less aero and also trash your tires faster. So unless you're completely superior it's really hard to get an actual fight going. Heck, even among Mercs you know the one behind is on the losing end of the fight.
Also apparently the upgraded Renault is pretty good.
I swear if the end of this season and next season starts being some young kid in a Red Bull just walking away with every race, over his Australian team-mate...
I would like nothing better than Hamilton to get schooled by an 18 year old kid.
I'm fine with Red Bull winning all the time. I'm all for young kids coming in and ruling the race too.
But here we are.
Welcome! And feel free to ask as much as you like.
Steam | XBL
What happened from 2010-2013?
Sebastian Vettel was in pretty much the same situation as Lewis Hamilton/Nico Rosberg are in now, an absolutely dominant car, to the point of it being really boring to watch. The only thing that stopped it was a regs change that led to the almost fairytale rise of Braun from the ashes of an offseason team implosion and their subsequent development into the current Mercedes team.
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
Came down to the last race at Brazil
Pastor Maldando won a race
Whats not to like?
F1's always had dominant teams in different eras but rarely as much as Mercedes are now.
Steam | XBL
Not quite. The regs change and Brawn winning the title happened before Sebastian Vettel won his first title.
If anything it was that regs change that gave Red Bull the chance to catch up on development disadvantage in the old regulations, to Ferrari and McLaren, and led to them being at the front of the pack and Sebs titles.
Edit:
Mercedes didn't do much up until the latest regs change which brought in the Turbo Engines, which funnily enough wasn't to stop Red Bull winning it was because Renault complained that the engine regs didn't correspond to road cars, in fact they threatened to pull out of the sport if the engine regulations weren't adopted... and then look what happened. All the lulz