I can't wait for the 2021 regs, so that we can finally have cars following without their tires catching on fire and becoming bubble gum.
It's not just the tires though. These cars are built so high strung that their brakes and engines start to overheat as well when they close up. It's more than just a dirty air problem. Now maybe once the dirty air issues are cleaned up teams will be forced to build cars with better cooling, but if you removed dirty air today the cars would still have cooling problems.
Ferrari flipped a switch and shut Vettel down for insubordination. He was clearly faster than LeClerc and was definitely going to try passing LeClerc.
I know you're just poking a bit of fun, but the safety car was what cost them the race, not the team orders. Vettel's engine cost them his car AND the win.
I can't wait for the 2021 regs, so that we can finally have cars following without their tires catching on fire and becoming bubble gum.
It's not just the tires though. These cars are built so high strung that their brakes and engines start to overheat as well when they close up. It's more than just a dirty air problem. Now maybe once the dirty air issues are cleaned up teams will be forced to build cars with better cooling, but if you removed dirty air today the cars would still have cooling problems.
Added bonus is that maybe then engines will be less likely to blow up.
( < . . .
+1
Donovan PuppyfuckerA dagger in the dark isworth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered Userregular
Never happening. People need to get over it. V12’s have no road relevance and given the current climate situation it would be a horribly bad look. Even NASCAR is seriously considering a swap to V6’s because the manufacturers want it.
V12s are just as relevant now as they've ever been in the history of the automobile. In fact, I suspect that there are MORE V12-engined cars being built today than there ever has been.
Never happening. People need to get over it. V12’s have no road relevance and given the current climate situation it would be a horribly bad look. Even NASCAR is seriously considering a swap to V6’s because the manufacturers want it.
V12s are just as relevant now as they've ever been in the history of the automobile. In fact, I suspect that there are MORE V12-engined cars being built today than there ever has been.
So yeah, bring back the V12s.
...
And get rid of the wings.
I think a lot of em are V6 or V8 these days. Off the top of my head the only V12s I can think of are the Lambo Aventador (overdue for a replacement), the LaFerrari and it's derivatives that inherit it's engine such as the F12, some more niche applications like Pagani still use em... But that's about it I think, just a handful plus whatever the AMG shoehorns their V12 into sedan-wise. Everything else is turbo V8s or something close. I don't see things like the F12 being produced in greater numbers than all the Aston Martins, McLarens, Porshes, Audis etc
This is coming from a guy who's dream car is and will always remain a '93 Diablo - I really don't think the future is in V12s
TeeMan on
+2
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
There's also very few manufacturers with any interest in continuing to develop the ICE.
+3
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
Because a few hyper cars still have a V12 to sell to old rich dudes so they can feel like it’s “the good old days” (e.g. Jeremy Clarkson), that makes them road relevant? In a world where every car company worth their salt is dumping incredible dollars in to EV and hybrid tech? Ferrari would be the only current F1 engine manufacturer possibly interested in spending money to develop a racing V12. Not only is it completely worthless development given where the world automotive market is headed, it’s an incredibly bad PR move given the current state of climate politics.
It’s also sort of ironic this discussion was started by Vettel moaning to bring back V12’s because his ridiculously reliable hybrid V6 had an issue. First engine issue he’s had in a long time.
There's also very few manufacturers with any interest in continuing to develop the ICE.
Mazda are a manufacturer that's going to be working on them for at least the next 10 years. They're on track to make some really super dooper efficient ICEs
Because a few hyper cars still have a V12 to sell to old rich dudes so they can feel like it’s “the good old days” (e.g. Jeremy Clarkson), that makes them road relevant? In a world where every car company worth their salt is dumping incredible dollars in to EV and hybrid tech? Ferrari would be the only current F1 engine manufacturer possibly interested in spending money to develop a racing V12. Not only is it completely worthless development given where the world automotive market is headed, it’s an incredibly bad PR move given the current state of climate politics.
It’s also sort of ironic this discussion was started by Vettel moaning to bring back V12’s because his ridiculously reliable hybrid V6 had an issue. First engine issue he’s had in a long time.
Japan 2017 (October 2017) was the last time he retired with an engine issue. Amazing.
ONE MGU-K fails and we're calling for V12s? weaklings. As if a V12 never grenaded itself. I don't give a shit about "road relevance", but let us not pretend that switching back to V12 is about reliability, omegalul
It's pretty crazy that somehow, with the best car, Ferrari manage to be fuckups, constantly tripping over their own feet. No wonder Alonso got chased out of this team, I bet he expects people to do their jobs and everything!
Props to Mercedes. They have a 90 point championship lead and they race and play like they're in 3rd. Some of that is down to Bottas is exactly incompetent enough for there to not be on track drama, but still...
with the pit stop/tire meta it really seems like having two top flight drivers is a strategic poison pill, and evidently Mercedes understands this better than anyone.
What is up with the mid pack this season? Last season it felt like we had entire races where we never saw the top 5 because McLaren and Haas and Renault were just all up on each other. Were there even 10 cars in this race? Has it all thinned out or is the world director on even more drugs this year
we also talk about other random shit and clown upon each other
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited September 2019
Also, just to be clear, "road relevance" isn't about relevance for consumers. They aren't trying to make F1 engines seem approachable to the fans or the public.
Road relevance is about appealing to manufacturers, ensuring that they can get some commercial benefit from the research invested into motorsports by being able to re-use some of it in road cars.
Put it another way, there's a reason there's several manufacturers in Formula E but who have no interest in F1 and never will.
Research time spent investing in more efficient energy recovery systems for a V6 hybrid or money spent developing electric power trains is research time that can be put to double duty on improving road cars. Research on a V12 revving to 18,000? Not so much.
Dhalphir on
+1
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Road relevance went mostly out the window with any and all driver aids. Right now the hybrid system and the punishment on reliability are the road relevant bits.
Getting Formula-E further is way more relevant.
( < . . .
0
Donovan PuppyfuckerA dagger in the dark isworth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered Userregular
Never happening. People need to get over it. V12’s have no road relevance and given the current climate situation it would be a horribly bad look. Even NASCAR is seriously considering a swap to V6’s because the manufacturers want it.
V12s are just as relevant now as they've ever been in the history of the automobile. In fact, I suspect that there are MORE V12-engined cars being built today than there ever has been.
So yeah, bring back the V12s.
...
And get rid of the wings.
I think a lot of em are V6 or V8 these days. Off the top of my head the only V12s I can think of are the Lambo Aventador (overdue for a replacement), the LaFerrari and it's derivatives that inherit it's engine such as the F12, some more niche applications like Pagani still use em... But that's about it I think, just a handful plus whatever the AMG shoehorns their V12 into sedan-wise. Everything else is turbo V8s or something close. I don't see things like the F12 being produced in greater numbers than all the Aston Martins, McLarens, Porshes, Audis etc
This is coming from a guy who's dream car is and will always remain a '93 Diablo - I really don't think the future is in V12s
Huh, so this never actually posted this morning after I hit the enter key, instead it got saved in my drafts, oh well you can all enjoy it now, whee!
Okay so Aston Martin has a V12 in the DB11, the Rapide, and the Valkyrie, BMW has a V12 in the 7 series, Ferrari has a V12 in the GTC4 Lusso and the Superfast, Lamborghini has the V12 in the Aventador, Mercedes has a V12 in the S class and the G-Wagen, and Rolls Royce has a V12 in the Cullinan, Ghost, Phantom, and Wraith.
Yeah, most of those cars are WAY out of the reach of us mere mortals, but that's irrelevant to my original point that there are likely more cars being built with V12s in them than ever before, there's gotta be thousands of cars per year being built with V12 engines in them, hence more than ever before, making that engine configuration more relevant than ever before.
Besides which, as major car manufacturers move away from internal combustion engines, Formula 1 is only going to become more and more vanishingly irrelevant to road cars (moreso than it already is), so why not leave the absolute bleeding edge of technical advancement to Formula E where it belongs, and bring back the wheel to wheel white knuckle spectacle of old-school Formula 1 purely for entertainment purposes? People watch WRC because it's fucking MENTAL, not because they're obsessed with the differences between different weights of oil used in transfer cases. And WRC cars don't even directly battle each other, just the clock!
Give me 4.5 litre naturally-aspirated V12s that rev to 15,000 rpms and no wings. And proper old-school manual gearboxes with an h-pattern lever!
+1
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited October 2019
I don't think the raw numbers of manufactured cars of any given type is super relevant, what matters for road relevance is the percentage.
As for the second part, the bleeding edge of technical advancement is supposed to be Formula One. That, more than anything, is the heritage of F1 - an engineer's sport as much as a driver's sport, handcrafting every aspect of the car for maximum laptime.
That isn't what Formula E is. Formula E is an electric spec series, carefully designed to minimise the current weaknesses of all-electric racing while showcasing the strengths, and raising the legitimacy and credibility of itself as a genuine motorsport.
I suspect that we all know Formula One will eventually embrace all electric power trains. Likely not until all-electric racing cars are outright faster than hybrids, but it will happen. At that point I suspect you'll essentially see Formula E fade away or be merged into F1, it's purpose for existing no longer relevant, and you'll see F1 become the new electric racing king, but with free development and engineering might bent on the goal of laptime.
the bleeding edge of technical advancement is supposed to be Formula One
too bad they've been banning legitimate technical advancements pretty much every year for the last 30-40 years, this line is stale and doesn't pass any critical test
i personally don't care either way about the hybrids per se. but im also against MOST restriction of engine. the rulebook should be burned, except where there are clear safety issues (ground effects + ride heights, etc)
as long as they continue to funnel teams through a ridiculously tight formula, then obviously the most robust and well resourced teams will triumph. it's economic determinism at its most bare.
by opening up the rulebook and allowing lower teams to take risks, we can have some fun again. it was kind of shit way back when with a bunch of chain smoking engineers who weren't good enough to get into NASA were in the garage... but now even a bad formula 1 team has space age engineering resources.... uncork that shit
My tickets for the Austin race got here today! Super psyched. It's been a couple of years since I got to watch the race live in person.
You doing just the race, or quali as well?
I'm trying to decide on if I want the wife to get me tickets for the race (and quali) for my birthday. Other option is skis, but I am leaning race instead, since I doubt with the kiddo I will be able to go on more than one ski trip this year.
In other news, we're almost 7 months into this baby rearing thing, and we've got it figured out enough now that I can actually do some Dirt Rally runs. I tried an RWD vehicle for the first time since getting the wheel setup, and it has finally clicked and feels great. Actually feels easier than doing FWD vehicles.
oldmanken on
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
My tickets for the Austin race got here today! Super psyched. It's been a couple of years since I got to watch the race live in person.
You doing just the race, or quali as well?
I'm trying to decide on if I want the wife to get me tickets for the race (and quali) for my birthday. Other option is skis, but I am leaning race instead, since I doubt with the kiddo I will be able to go on more than one ski trip this year.
In other news, we're almost 7 months into this baby rearing thing, and we've got it figured out enough now that I can actually do some Dirt Rally runs. I tried an RWD vehicle for the first time since getting the wheel setup, and it has finally clicked and feels great. Actually feels easier than doing FWD vehicles.
The way I see it, both the quali and race are equally exciting in different ways, so I would go to both. But I'm also the nutter who watches all three FP sessions every single race in full and checks race pace timings when they're on long runs, and tracks car upgrades, and all that nonsense, so I'm going to live at the track for three days when it's time for my GP
I'm going all three days, since that was the package. Last time I went general admission and sat by turn 1. This time I'm in the bleachers by turn 3 I think.
0
Donovan PuppyfuckerA dagger in the dark isworth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered Userregular
Was finally able to watch the race last night. And it continues. Can someone please have a sitdown with Leclerc and tell him to shut up during races and just race? After what happened in Singapore, why are you still constantly complaining over the radio? Keep your mouth shut and drive and air whatever grievances you have after the fucking race.
Sure, he is just 21 and during the race he is probably high on adrenaline, but come on. This is ridicoulus.
Interesting race though. Albon continues to deliver. Moving him over was a great idea. He is not really challenging Verstappen, but gets points race after race. If he continues like this, they have found a reliable #2 and can try to make some noise in the constructor championship.
Posts
I can't wait for the 2021 regs, so that we can finally have cars following without their tires catching on fire and becoming bubble gum.
It's not just the tires though. These cars are built so high strung that their brakes and engines start to overheat as well when they close up. It's more than just a dirty air problem. Now maybe once the dirty air issues are cleaned up teams will be forced to build cars with better cooling, but if you removed dirty air today the cars would still have cooling problems.
I know you're just poking a bit of fun, but the safety car was what cost them the race, not the team orders. Vettel's engine cost them his car AND the win.
Added bonus is that maybe then engines will be less likely to blow up.
V12s are just as relevant now as they've ever been in the history of the automobile. In fact, I suspect that there are MORE V12-engined cars being built today than there ever has been.
So yeah, bring back the V12s.
...
And get rid of the wings.
I think a lot of em are V6 or V8 these days. Off the top of my head the only V12s I can think of are the Lambo Aventador (overdue for a replacement), the LaFerrari and it's derivatives that inherit it's engine such as the F12, some more niche applications like Pagani still use em... But that's about it I think, just a handful plus whatever the AMG shoehorns their V12 into sedan-wise. Everything else is turbo V8s or something close. I don't see things like the F12 being produced in greater numbers than all the Aston Martins, McLarens, Porshes, Audis etc
This is coming from a guy who's dream car is and will always remain a '93 Diablo - I really don't think the future is in V12s
It’s also sort of ironic this discussion was started by Vettel moaning to bring back V12’s because his ridiculously reliable hybrid V6 had an issue. First engine issue he’s had in a long time.
Mazda are a manufacturer that's going to be working on them for at least the next 10 years. They're on track to make some really super dooper efficient ICEs
Japan 2017 (October 2017) was the last time he retired with an engine issue. Amazing.
ONE MGU-K fails and we're calling for V12s? weaklings. As if a V12 never grenaded itself. I don't give a shit about "road relevance", but let us not pretend that switching back to V12 is about reliability, omegalul
It's pretty crazy that somehow, with the best car, Ferrari manage to be fuckups, constantly tripping over their own feet. No wonder Alonso got chased out of this team, I bet he expects people to do their jobs and everything!
Props to Mercedes. They have a 90 point championship lead and they race and play like they're in 3rd. Some of that is down to Bottas is exactly incompetent enough for there to not be on track drama, but still...
with the pit stop/tire meta it really seems like having two top flight drivers is a strategic poison pill, and evidently Mercedes understands this better than anyone.
What is up with the mid pack this season? Last season it felt like we had entire races where we never saw the top 5 because McLaren and Haas and Renault were just all up on each other. Were there even 10 cars in this race? Has it all thinned out or is the world director on even more drugs this year
we also talk about other random shit and clown upon each other
Road relevance is about appealing to manufacturers, ensuring that they can get some commercial benefit from the research invested into motorsports by being able to re-use some of it in road cars.
Put it another way, there's a reason there's several manufacturers in Formula E but who have no interest in F1 and never will.
Research time spent investing in more efficient energy recovery systems for a V6 hybrid or money spent developing electric power trains is research time that can be put to double duty on improving road cars. Research on a V12 revving to 18,000? Not so much.
Race feeds are managed locally and piped to broadcasters. Some races this season have been really good for watching midfield battles. Some have not.
we also talk about other random shit and clown upon each other
Getting Formula-E further is way more relevant.
Huh, so this never actually posted this morning after I hit the enter key, instead it got saved in my drafts, oh well you can all enjoy it now, whee!
Okay so Aston Martin has a V12 in the DB11, the Rapide, and the Valkyrie, BMW has a V12 in the 7 series, Ferrari has a V12 in the GTC4 Lusso and the Superfast, Lamborghini has the V12 in the Aventador, Mercedes has a V12 in the S class and the G-Wagen, and Rolls Royce has a V12 in the Cullinan, Ghost, Phantom, and Wraith.
Yeah, most of those cars are WAY out of the reach of us mere mortals, but that's irrelevant to my original point that there are likely more cars being built with V12s in them than ever before, there's gotta be thousands of cars per year being built with V12 engines in them, hence more than ever before, making that engine configuration more relevant than ever before.
Besides which, as major car manufacturers move away from internal combustion engines, Formula 1 is only going to become more and more vanishingly irrelevant to road cars (moreso than it already is), so why not leave the absolute bleeding edge of technical advancement to Formula E where it belongs, and bring back the wheel to wheel white knuckle spectacle of old-school Formula 1 purely for entertainment purposes? People watch WRC because it's fucking MENTAL, not because they're obsessed with the differences between different weights of oil used in transfer cases. And WRC cars don't even directly battle each other, just the clock!
Give me 4.5 litre naturally-aspirated V12s that rev to 15,000 rpms and no wings. And proper old-school manual gearboxes with an h-pattern lever!
As for the second part, the bleeding edge of technical advancement is supposed to be Formula One. That, more than anything, is the heritage of F1 - an engineer's sport as much as a driver's sport, handcrafting every aspect of the car for maximum laptime.
That isn't what Formula E is. Formula E is an electric spec series, carefully designed to minimise the current weaknesses of all-electric racing while showcasing the strengths, and raising the legitimacy and credibility of itself as a genuine motorsport.
I suspect that we all know Formula One will eventually embrace all electric power trains. Likely not until all-electric racing cars are outright faster than hybrids, but it will happen. At that point I suspect you'll essentially see Formula E fade away or be merged into F1, it's purpose for existing no longer relevant, and you'll see F1 become the new electric racing king, but with free development and engineering might bent on the goal of laptime.
too bad they've been banning legitimate technical advancements pretty much every year for the last 30-40 years, this line is stale and doesn't pass any critical test
i personally don't care either way about the hybrids per se. but im also against MOST restriction of engine. the rulebook should be burned, except where there are clear safety issues (ground effects + ride heights, etc)
as long as they continue to funnel teams through a ridiculously tight formula, then obviously the most robust and well resourced teams will triumph. it's economic determinism at its most bare.
by opening up the rulebook and allowing lower teams to take risks, we can have some fun again. it was kind of shit way back when with a bunch of chain smoking engineers who weren't good enough to get into NASA were in the garage... but now even a bad formula 1 team has space age engineering resources.... uncork that shit
we also talk about other random shit and clown upon each other
The Best of Cyprus Rally 2019 [Passats de canto] (6 mins)
You doing just the race, or quali as well?
I'm trying to decide on if I want the wife to get me tickets for the race (and quali) for my birthday. Other option is skis, but I am leaning race instead, since I doubt with the kiddo I will be able to go on more than one ski trip this year.
In other news, we're almost 7 months into this baby rearing thing, and we've got it figured out enough now that I can actually do some Dirt Rally runs. I tried an RWD vehicle for the first time since getting the wheel setup, and it has finally clicked and feels great. Actually feels easier than doing FWD vehicles.
The way I see it, both the quali and race are equally exciting in different ways, so I would go to both. But I'm also the nutter who watches all three FP sessions every single race in full and checks race pace timings when they're on long runs, and tracks car upgrades, and all that nonsense, so I'm going to live at the track for three days when it's time for my GP
How dare you!
https://drivetribe.com/p/what-is-the-best-sounding-rally-ATFLTahgQzemOGXA-R7YJQ?iid=WVqrQDLnTsm-tI49-KUHsA
Sure, he is just 21 and during the race he is probably high on adrenaline, but come on. This is ridicoulus.
Interesting race though. Albon continues to deliver. Moving him over was a great idea. He is not really challenging Verstappen, but gets points race after race. If he continues like this, they have found a reliable #2 and can try to make some noise in the constructor championship.
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