Avengers: Age of Using Spoiler Tags

see317

Saw the movie last night, went to the Avengers/Avengers AoU double feature. An evening well spent, IMO.

Regarding Pietro:

Am I alone in thinking that he's not dead? Like dead dead? Forever, no take backs, times infinity dead?
I'm just saying that really early on in the movie they introduced the cradle which seemed to have pretty remarkable regenerative powers (up to and including creating a new life form infused with vibranium), and Quicksilver was mentioned as having an enhanced metabolism which is generally comic-speak for "Can heal really fast".
I'm just saying I don't think he's not going to stay dead in the MCU.
If they really wanted him to stay dead, he could have stayed on the island. Even then though...

Regarding the battle near the end of the movie:

I was really hoping that when Fury said "Let's show them what we've got" the camera would pan over to Galaga Guy from Avengers 1, still playing Galaga, still hoping no one notices. Maybe in the background Rhodey mentions that he's going to go suit up and heads out of the room, but the camera focuses on Galaga Guy. He hits a couple buttons on his console, the game turns off and a targeting program that looks a lot like Galaga pops up on his screen. Cut to the outside of the Helicarrier and a half dozen cannons fold out from the hull and we get 5-10 seconds of the Helicarrier blowing Ultrons out of the sky before War Machine cruises around the side and engages.

It would have amused me, but that right there is probably a really good indication of why I'm not a writer.

DevoutlyApathetic

So question that isn't really talked about that people seem to be brushing over:

What the fuck is Ultron?

Tony didn't create it, not really. He found a mind of some sort inside the mind gem. He bashed it into his proto AI Jarvis until enough stuck that this mind was capable of dealing with computers and then through that connection robotics and thus our world but we're still left with the question...where did the mind come from originally? The gems are supposed to be dawn of the universe, if not before stuff. Is that mind from then? It appears to have no memories and we could jaunt down digression lane about if that means it's actually a "mind" or just a blank slate but let's not. It is clear that it filled that blank slate with Tony Tony Tony and what Tony stated was this mind's purpose. It also got all of Tony from every time period at once and unsurprisingly he learns the lesson of Tony's life: Violence. It's lofty, abstract violence and it has been used for varying ideals but it is violence all the same.

Then we have Vision with the open question of just how much of his mind is Jarvis and how much is from the Mind gem. From Tony's previous failures I think it is safe to say that the Mind gem is doing something for him but it's unclear how much. Just how alike are Vision and Ultron? When we get a flash and no more Ultron...was the gem used to destroy him or did he return home?

Kashaar

DevoutlyApathetic wrote: »

So question that isn't really talked about that people seem to be brushing over:

What the fuck is Ultron?

Tony didn't create it, not really. He found a mind of some sort inside the mind gem. He bashed it into his proto AI Jarvis until enough stuck that this mind was capable of dealing with computers and then through that connection robotics and thus our world but we're still left with the question...where did the mind come from originally? The gems are supposed to be dawn of the universe, if not before stuff. Is that mind from then? It appears to have no memories and we could jaunt down digression lane about if that means it's actually a "mind" or just a blank slate but let's not. It is clear that it filled that blank slate with Tony Tony Tony and what Tony stated was this mind's purpose. It also got all of Tony from every time period at once and unsurprisingly he learns the lesson of Tony's life: Violence. It's lofty, abstract violence and it has been used for varying ideals but it is violence all the same.

Then we have Vision with the open question of just how much of his mind is Jarvis and how much is from the Mind gem. From Tony's previous failures I think it is safe to say that the Mind gem is doing something for him but it's unclear how much. Just how alike are Vision and Ultron? When we get a flash and no more Ultron...was the gem used to destroy him or did he return home?

I think there are some clues pointing towards a certain purple someone.

At least in part, we can safely blame Thanos, the old Xanatos.

- He gave the staff to Loki, and might have suggested Midgard as a nice new domain for a wannabe king.
- He seems to have monitored the happenings on Earth, since:
- He says "Fine, I'll do it myself!" after Ultron is defeated.

I think Ultron's evilness may have been a trap set by Thanos as a hedged bet. Either Loki would have subdued Earth, or he would be defeated and the scepter acquired by the Earthlings. What I find more interesting is the question: What does he want with Earth?

Is he afraid of the (Agents of SHIELD spoilers)

Inhumans?

I don't really know what else it could be, if it's even something we already know of.

Astaereth

I'd say overall Ultron was about as entertaining as the first Avengers and maybe slightly less empty. Like the first one, I don't think it will stand up to a second viewing.

What is it with these movies leaving out Pepper and Jane? Are those actresses never available, or is it a deliberate writing choice?

Also, after a dozen movies of utterly wasted teaser bits, Thanos better be the best fucking villain in a movie ever, I swear to Christ. So far he's the most boring Marvel villain, and having recently seen Thor 2, that's really saying something.

Local H Jay

I just saw this

It gave me a big boner... no
Two big boners

Dr. Chaos

Astaereth wrote: »

What is it with these movies leaving out Pepper and Jane? Are those actresses never available, or is it a deliberate writing choice?

Well, the Avengers is about superhero team ups.

You'll rarely see each hero's supporting cast show up in the comic books or films unless they have super powers.

Viskod

Pepper is in the first Avengers.

TexiKen

Well, a lot of the other movies supporting casts did show up this film except those two, which makes them stand out more.

Dr. Chaos

TexiKen wrote: »

Well, a lot of the other movies supporting casts did show up this film except those two, which makes them stand out more.

Not really,

just Dr. Selvig...seltig or whatever his name is.

War Machine and Falcon seemed to be there mainly to set up some sort of B-Tier Avengers squad with Wanda, Vision and Cap.

I personally would have cut most of the cameo stuff out, the new avengers in this one could have used more screentime.

TexiKen

I was thinking

I think Falcon and Iron Patriot count, but also Elba and Atwell and Skarrrrrrrrsgard.

I know it's contracts and all that but Pepper could have showed up again, calling Tony on a vidscreen in his suit (or even just record her calling into the studio) going "Tony, what the hell's going on with our bank account?"

And I'd be fine with just getting someone else to play Jane, they made the Rhodey switch even better, maybe lightning strikes twice, and it gets a bonus because it's Thor likes lighting. He's the god of thunder. And rock and rolllllll.

Who-Psyd

TexiKen wrote: »

I was thinking

I think Falcon and Iron Patriot count, but also Elba and Atwell and Skarrrrrrrrsgard.

I know it's contracts and all that but Pepper could have showed up again, calling Tony on a vidscreen in his suit (or even just record her calling into the studio) going "Tony, what the hell's going on with our bank account?"

And I'd be fine with just getting someone else to play Jane, they made the Rhodey switch even better, maybe lightning strikes twice, and it gets a bonus because it's Thor likes lighting. He's the god of thunder. And rock and rolllllll.

I would think it is

a money issue maybe, they just did not want to go to the expense of hiring them for the Movie, but they are not so dissatisfied with the Actors that a recasting is on the agenda

Kashaar

Who-Psyd wrote: »

TexiKen wrote: »

I was thinking

I think Falcon and Iron Patriot count, but also Elba and Atwell and Skarrrrrrrrsgard.

I know it's contracts and all that but Pepper could have showed up again, calling Tony on a vidscreen in his suit (or even just record her calling into the studio) going "Tony, what the hell's going on with our bank account?"

And I'd be fine with just getting someone else to play Jane, they made the Rhodey switch even better, maybe lightning strikes twice, and it gets a bonus because it's Thor likes lighting. He's the god of thunder. And rock and rolllllll.

I would think it is

a money issue maybe, they just did not want to go to the expense of hiring them for the Movie, but they are not so dissatisfied with the Actors that a recasting is on the agenda

Could also just be scheduling issues. I mean, they are both pretty successful actresses with probably a lot on their plates, so a minor one-scene-or-so role in an ensemble movie like that might just not be a big priority for them.

KingofMadCows

RT800 wrote: »

I kind of liked

that Ultron decided who he was and what he was meant to do so quickly.

I mean, he's an AI. Basically a super-intelligent computer running on the world's most advanced hardware. The fact that he was be able to analyze his existence and reach a conclusion as to his purpose in mere seconds (regardless of how warped that conclusion may be) seems appropriate.

His knowledge of humanity

did come from the internet. What did you expect would be the result?

Quid

DevoutlyApathetic wrote: »

So question that isn't really talked about that people seem to be brushing over:

What the fuck is Ultron?

Tony didn't create it, not really. He found a mind of some sort inside the mind gem. He bashed it into his proto AI Jarvis until enough stuck that this mind was capable of dealing with computers and then through that connection robotics and thus our world but we're still left with the question...where did the mind come from originally? The gems are supposed to be dawn of the universe, if not before stuff. Is that mind from then? It appears to have no memories and we could jaunt down digression lane about if that means it's actually a "mind" or just a blank slate but let's not. It is clear that it filled that blank slate with Tony Tony Tony and what Tony stated was this mind's purpose. It also got all of Tony from every time period at once and unsurprisingly he learns the lesson of Tony's life: Violence. It's lofty, abstract violence and it has been used for varying ideals but it is violence all the same.

Then we have Vision with the open question of just how much of his mind is Jarvis and how much is from the Mind gem. From Tony's previous failures I think it is safe to say that the Mind gem is doing something for him but it's unclear how much. Just how alike are Vision and Ultron? When we get a flash and no more Ultron...was the gem used to destroy him or did he return home?

Idle speculation:

I wonder if the housing used for the mind gem also made it exert its influence on those around it to basically work towards whatever Thanos' goal is.

hippofant

KingofMadCows wrote: »

RT800 wrote: »

I kind of liked

that Ultron decided who he was and what he was meant to do so quickly.

I mean, he's an AI. Basically a super-intelligent computer running on the world's most advanced hardware. The fact that he was be able to analyze his existence and reach a conclusion as to his purpose in mere seconds (regardless of how warped that conclusion may be) seems appropriate.

His knowledge of humanity

did come from the internet. What did you expect would be the result?

A great love of cats, K-pop, and celebrity drama? Probably phase 2 of Ultron's plan....

Dark Raven X

Me and Lady Raven just saw it. Really fucking good. Initial buzzing hype reaction from me is that it's above the first Avengers movie, but not quite Guardians.

Regarding cut stuff and pacing...

The only part that stuck out as redacted to me was Ultron upgrading his body. He made a big point of his body being a chrysalis, that something better was coming... and then Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver walk in on his Prime form already built and ready. I guess it was a HYDRA project, them using Chitauri tech to build a faux Iron Man, and he just repurposed it?

And then his new big bad Vibranium infused body wrecked that one to scare Black Widow... dude, your drones are clearly shit. Maybe hang on to that Prime body AND the new one? :P

When they came to the conclusion that Ultron wanted a new form, didn't really jibe with him just showing up with new bodies already, y'know? Should've had a ten second scene of him hijacking that Prime one before the Twins met him.

Other than that, couldn't really tell ya where the cut hour went, y'know? Felt dense, but not too rushed, IMO.

GUD MOVIE

Kashaar

Dark Raven X wrote: »

Me and Lady Raven just saw it. Really fucking good. Initial buzzing hype reaction from me is that it's above the first Avengers movie, but not quite Guardians.

Regarding cut stuff and pacing...

The only part that stuck out as redacted to me was Ultron upgrading his body. He made a big point of his body being a chrysalis, that something better was coming... and then Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver walk in on his Prime form already built and ready. I guess it was a HYDRA project, them using Chitauri tech to build a faux Iron Man, and he just repurposed it?

And then his new big bad Vibranium infused body wrecked that one to scare Black Widow... dude, your drones are clearly shit. Maybe hang on to that Prime body AND the new one? :P

When they came to the conclusion that Ultron wanted a new form, didn't really jibe with him just showing up with new bodies already, y'know? Should've had a ten second scene of him hijacking that Prime one before the Twins met him.

Other than that, couldn't really tell ya where the cut hour went, y'know? Felt dense, but not too rushed, IMO.

GUD MOVIE

I think you misunderstood that part.

The new form was supposed to be the body that became The Vision. Everything else was just an intermediary stop-gap solution for Ultron. And then those pesky kids with their superpowers went and stole it from him!

KingofMadCows

hippofant wrote: »

KingofMadCows wrote: »

RT800 wrote: »

I kind of liked

that Ultron decided who he was and what he was meant to do so quickly.

I mean, he's an AI. Basically a super-intelligent computer running on the world's most advanced hardware. The fact that he was be able to analyze his existence and reach a conclusion as to his purpose in mere seconds (regardless of how warped that conclusion may be) seems appropriate.

His knowledge of humanity

did come from the internet. What did you expect would be the result?

A great love of cats, K-pop, and celebrity drama? Probably phase 2 of Ultron's plan....

Ultron

didn't want to eradicate the human race. It was really about ethics in AI journalism.

Dark Raven X

Naw I got that! From a pacing perspective it was weird.

he went from junk body to badass better-than-the-drone body. How? Where'd he get that body? Why aren't all the drones that good?

Then later the Avengers figure out Ultron wants a new body, but the movie had skipped over his evolution to that point.

Kashaar

Dark Raven X wrote: »

Naw I got that! From a pacing perspective it was weird.

he went from junk body to badass better-than-the-drone body. How? Where'd he get that body? Why aren't all the drones that good?

Then later the Avengers figure out Ultron wants a new body, but the movie had skipped over his evolution to that point.

The way I figure it, that first part is pretty trivial for an actual AI.

It's not like he had to invent new manufacturing techniques (and if so, it would be an easy thing to do for an AI), and they even mention that robotics plants everywhere are being repurposed by Ultron. Much of today's manufacturing industry is automated, or partly automated.

The part where he ripped his own body apart to intimidate Natasha - the way I saw it, the second body was the exact same model as the first. It wasn't meant to demonstrate that he upgraded himself, it was meant to demonstrate the alien-ness of his AI nature; that to him, bodies are as replaceable as old clothes. I have to say that it worked - his manner and the way he speaks really anthropomorphized him, so it took that moment to remind me that this is not a humanoid villain we're dealing with, but a distributed AI.

azith28

I see a lot of Heath Ledger's Joker in Spaders portrayal of Ultron. It was pretty good.

Viskod

I don't. Thank god.

Quid

Dark Raven X wrote: »

Naw I got that! From a pacing perspective it was weird.

he went from junk body to badass better-than-the-drone body. How? Where'd he get that body? Why aren't all the drones that good?

Then later the Avengers figure out Ultron wants a new body, but the movie had skipped over his evolution to that point.

He

started back up the robotics engineering in Sokovia.

jungleroomx

AoU topped the first Avengers in midnight showings with 27.6 million.

Looks like it might beat the first movie opening weekend. It's already done $287 mil overseas.

jungleroomx

Spawnbroker wrote: »

jungleroomx wrote: »

Anyone else happy on Caps treatment?

He felt like a leader and not the underpowered fish out of water he was in the first Avengers film.

They fixed that since Captain America 2. The entire first 10 minutes of that movie is the Captain just running a train on a boat full of soldiers, doing superhuman kicks and shit.

Well I expected him to have that treatment in TWS. When they throw him into a pile of superpowered otherfolk in the first one he was just kinda there.

jungleroomx

azith28 wrote: »

I see a lot of Heath Ledger's Joker in Spaders portrayal of Ultron. It was pretty good.

I didn't see that. I saw more Syndrome from The Incredibles.

Kadoken

I saw an evil Tony Stark with a godcomplex

Edit: Which, now thinking about it, is what Syndrome... Is.

Quid

Yeah Ultron struck me as Tony's views taken way, way to the extreme.

cr0w

Ultron's

Oh, for God's sake

Almost killed me.

RT800

I liked how Ultron seemed to take most of his setbacks in stride. Very level-headed most of the time.

Even at the end, when Vision was about to finish him off, he had more of a "Well, I tried to help. Now it's your funereal." type of attitude than the typical rage villains show.

Dangerbird

jungleroomx wrote: »

Spawnbroker wrote: »

jungleroomx wrote: »

Anyone else happy on Caps treatment?

He felt like a leader and not the underpowered fish out of water he was in the first Avengers film.

They fixed that since Captain America 2. The entire first 10 minutes of that movie is the Captain just running a train on a boat full of soldiers, doing superhuman kicks and shit.

Well I expected him to have that treatment in TWS. When they throw him into a pile of superpowered otherfolk in the first one he was just kinda there.

I feel like his "power level" is appropriate where it is now. Isn't he supposed to be the utmost peak of what a human can achieve physically? Plus... he works out too. I really got a sense of that in TWS, when he was plowing through doors with his shield in front of him.

If anything its amazing Hawkeye and Black Widow are able to even survive these movies considering they're just normal well trained agents.

KingofMadCows

Ultron was the James Spaderist performance James Spader ever gave. The only thing missing was a discussion on boiled eggs.

Artereis

I was a little disappointed how different the opening Ultron speech was from the first trailer we saw. I really liked that trailer.

Warcry

Something about Ultron's manner felt off to me. I guess it was just the Whedon dialogue, but I felt like he shouldn't have been trying so hard to be charismatic. Ultron is supposed to be alien, and pants-shittingly scary with his capabilites and cold robot logic. As such, I really couldn't take him seriously a lot of the time.

Local H Jay

Best quote of the movie

Ultron's "Oh, come on guys" when Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver betray him.

Runner up is Vision saying "Well I was born yesterday"

Mancingtom

Warcry wrote: »

Something about Ultron's manner felt off to me. I guess it was just the Whedon dialogue, but I felt like he shouldn't have been trying so hard to be charismatic. Ultron is supposed to be alien, and pants-shittingly scary with his capabilites and cold robot logic. As such, I really couldn't take him seriously a lot of the time.

I think that might be the point. Ultron is a deeply unstable individual who desperately wants to be seen as good- to have affection.

Note the heartbroken way he tells Wanda "don't do this" when she turns on him. He was genuinely hurt- and responded by kidnapping Natasha so that he would have someone to talk to.

jungleroomx

Local H Jay wrote: »

Best quote of the movie

Ultron's "Oh, come on guys" when Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver betray him.

Runner up is Vision saying "Well I was born yesterday"

I think Thor had the best line.

When Widow was trying to comfort Banner that he wasn't a monster in the opener and Thor said something along the lines of the gates of hell are filled with his enemies cries.

KingofMadCows

I think that would have worked better if they made Ultron a bit more sympathetic like Amazo on Justice League. Maybe there are some cut scenes that flesh him out more.

They still could have given Ultron some unintentionally funny lines even if they played him straight. Kind of like

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkTWQbWgS0A

There are a lot of things in this movie that remind me of the DCAU.

The Avengers seem to be becoming more like the Justice League and this movie is kind of like a transition between Justice League and Justice League Unlimited. In fact, the general tone of the MCU is a lot like the DCAU. There's probably a parallel universe out there where WB gave Bruce Timm control of the DC movies and this is a Justice League movie where they fight Brainiac.

King Riptor

DevoutlyApathetic wrote: »

So question that isn't really talked about that people seem to be brushing over:

What the fuck is Ultron?

Tony didn't create it, not really. He found a mind of some sort inside the mind gem. He bashed it into his proto AI Jarvis until enough stuck that this mind was capable of dealing with computers and then through that connection robotics and thus our world but we're still left with the question...where did the mind come from originally? The gems are supposed to be dawn of the universe, if not before stuff. Is that mind from then? It appears to have no memories and we could jaunt down digression lane about if that means it's actually a "mind" or just a blank slate but let's not. It is clear that it filled that blank slate with Tony Tony Tony and what Tony stated was this mind's purpose. It also got all of Tony from every time period at once and unsurprisingly he learns the lesson of Tony's life: Violence. It's lofty, abstract violence and it has been used for varying ideals but it is violence all the same.

Then we have Vision with the open question of just how much of his mind is Jarvis and how much is from the Mind gem. From Tony's previous failures I think it is safe to say that the Mind gem is doing something for him but it's unclear how much. Just how alike are Vision and Ultron? When we get a flash and no more Ultron...was the gem used to destroy him or did he return home?

Going by the post credit scene

Ultron was created by the Staff AI Tony and Bruce found. and was intended to open up the casing around the Mind Gem wipe out life on earth and just sorta wait for Thanos to come pick it up later. I don't think Ultron was aware of this but it is what twisted his programming. So when Ultron failed Thanos just decided it was time to get his hands dirty

Jragghen

Just saw the movie. Thought it was awesome, and I'm not quite getting where folks thought it was merely okay. I wouldn't put it above Winter Soldier, but having just watched through all the others again recently...yeah, this one's towards the top.