I'd had this in a post further back but didn't see a reply.... why do various melee heroes have different attack ranges? Seems like an odd design choice.
abathur needs a huge sign that appears on your screen when you're in the base that says "get the fuck out of the base idiot"
abathur on our team never left the base the entire game while complaining about how i didn't leave gazlowe unopposed in bottom lane during temples because the rest of my team was too bad to just split them 1:1 and instead tried to win the fight. ended up with lowest xp on the team. i hate abathur so much.
I hadn't played Brightwing more than like twice after the changes but then that pub played a great one with us the other day so I got inspired.
Holy cow I think she might still be legit! I had 139k healed, and plenty of it was in battle. The couple times I died in team fights my team just folded so I could definitely tell I was making a difference. Also her out of combat healing keeps people going longer without having to go back. (Except for mana)
that's weird, I mostly lost today (like 3-5), and yet all of a sudden Hotslogs decides I 'm in diamond league HL, after being platinum for weeks(months)?
abathur needs a huge sign that appears on your screen when you're in the base that says "get the fuck out of the base idiot"
abathur on our team never left the base the entire game while complaining about how i didn't leave gazlowe unopposed in bottom lane during temples because the rest of my team was too bad to just split them 1:1 and instead tried to win the fight. ended up with lowest xp on the team. i hate abathur so much.
I played Aba again a few times this past week after having not touched him since he hit 10 (it's been a couple of patches)... man he's a lot of fun. Being able to press your R key a second time to jump to your monstro instead of using the map to find him is really convenient and tandem bughat does SO MUCH DAMAGE.
I also played a couple of matches with players who were under account level 10 and were playing aba... some of them really just don't understand the soak mechanics in this game.
that's weird, I mostly lost today (like 3-5), and yet all of a sudden Hotslogs decides I 'm in diamond league HL, after being platinum for weeks(months)?
It hasn't processed your losses from today yet. You probably got bumped up from the net 4 points you got yesterday. It may or may not bump you back down once today's games are processed.
I'd had this in a post further back but didn't see a reply.... why do various melee heroes have different attack ranges? Seems like an odd design choice.
I could see if they were in proportion to hitboxes to help with pathing/targeting. IIRC Illidan has short range, but he's mobile and has a smaller hitbox, so it feels OK on him.
Also, was flipping through HeroesNexus for news and noticed this from that Town Hall podcast:
Artanis' range and auto-attack ability are so bad (very very short aa range), to the point where other melee heroes can kite him at melee range.
And I can attest this is 100% true.
In fact, his AA range is so stupidly small that if you aren't careful you will get murdered by golems/bosses/terrors because the root boss NPCs cast will hold you in place and then the boss will attack you from outside your autoattack range. Yeah, I got killed last night by a golem in Haunted Mines because he rooted me and then attacked me from out of range so I couldn't keep my shields up.
That's something that really needs to be fixed. It would help explain why he feels so easy to kite too and why Zealot's Charge feels so necessary. His attack range is ridiculously stupidly small.
Whoa holy shit, no kidding. I looked it up on HeroesFire, his melee range is 1.
To put this in perspective:
- Anub'arak, ETC, Johanna, Sonya, Stitches, and Tyrael all have a range of 1.5.
- Arthas, Chen, and Leoric (!) all have a range of 2.
And then we have the few odd outliers:
- Diablo has a range of 1.25, Muradin has a range of 1, and now Artanis also has a range of 1.
Now compare to Melee Assassins:
- Kerrigan has a range of 2.
- Zeratul, Butcher, Thrall all have a range of 1.5.
- Illidan has a range of 1.25.
Now I'm starting to understand why people are saying Zealot Charge is so... necessary.
Ah, here's your post. I never realized Muradin also had a super short range. I guess his mobility and CC make it less of a big deal for him? Jesus, even fucking Murky has a range of 1.25. I don't think anyone should have to suffer with a 1.0 range, but I guess Muradin doesn't need a buff right now either.
Also, was flipping through HeroesNexus for news and noticed this from that Town Hall podcast:
Artanis' range and auto-attack ability are so bad (very very short aa range), to the point where other melee heroes can kite him at melee range.
And I can attest this is 100% true.
In fact, his AA range is so stupidly small that if you aren't careful you will get murdered by golems/bosses/terrors because the root boss NPCs cast will hold you in place and then the boss will attack you from outside your autoattack range. Yeah, I got killed last night by a golem in Haunted Mines because he rooted me and then attacked me from out of range so I couldn't keep my shields up.
That's something that really needs to be fixed. It would help explain why he feels so easy to kite too and why Zealot's Charge feels so necessary. His attack range is ridiculously stupidly small.
Whoa holy shit, no kidding. I looked it up on HeroesFire, his melee range is 1.
To put this in perspective:
- Anub'arak, ETC, Johanna, Sonya, Stitches, and Tyrael all have a range of 1.5.
- Arthas, Chen, and Leoric (!) all have a range of 2.
And then we have the few odd outliers:
- Diablo has a range of 1.25, Muradin has a range of 1, and now Artanis also has a range of 1.
Now compare to Melee Assassins:
- Kerrigan has a range of 2.
- Zeratul, Butcher, Thrall all have a range of 1.5.
- Illidan has a range of 1.25.
Now I'm starting to understand why people are saying Zealot Charge is so... necessary.
Ah, here's your post. I never realized Muradin also had a super short range. I guess his mobility and CC make it less of a big deal for him? Jesus, even fucking Murky has a range of 1.25. I don't think anyone should have to suffer with a 1.0 range, but I guess Muradin doesn't need a buff right now either.
Also Muradin has those dwarf arms... range of 1.0 seems accurate.
Maybe Muradin's smaller hitbox makes it less difficult
+2
KlineshrikeCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
Mura has an aoe slow that usually makes it work a little better.
I felt really rusty tonight. Luckilly I shaped up a bit at the end, but I just couldn't get a judge for positioning for awhile there.
0
The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
Wondering why the melees with 2 range have 2 range? Because they physically have longer attacks. Arthas has a longsword, Leoric has a big fuckoff mace, Kerrigan stabs out with her wings, and Chen has that big staff thing. They just have reach weapons.
0
KlineshrikeCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
The range does seem to be based on the fighting style/weapon but that is a .... tricky decision to make when it strongly affects balance.
Wondering why the melees with 2 range have 2 range? Because they physically have longer attacks. Arthas has a longsword, Leoric has a big fuckoff mace, Kerrigan stabs out with her wings, and Chen has that big staff thing. They just have reach weapons.
With that being the case though, should Artanis not have the same attack range as Zeratul?
After playing a lot of Kerrigan and Chen, they would be significantly less effective at securing kills with a shorter range. feel like 50% of my kills with them are just before enemies get out of range.
I think I'm gonna wait until the inevitable tweak that blizz will have to make to Artanis before I spend much time on him.
In the meantime I grabbed Tyrael for gold and need to get Sonya to 9 or 10 still.
Any pro-tips from Tyrael players out there?
Tyrael is the best dive tank in the game, I think. I strongly push for two-tank comps including Tyrael against double mages, or even against one mage and sylvanas. He can't reallllly solo tank though.
Holy Ground at 16 is your definitive talent. The blocking is so good to move your standard targets back towards your team.
Generalísimo de Fuerzas Armadas de la República Argentina
I haven't played Tyrael in a long time. I'm still bitter about the loss of Cast Aside. I doubt I ever get over that one.
But I'm pretty sure most people are building him for damage and chase. Auto attack improving talents and Q improving talents seem to be what I see most often.
I haven't played Tyrael in a long time. I'm still bitter about the loss of Cast Aside. I doubt I ever get over that one.
But I'm pretty sure most people are building him for damage and chase. Auto attack improving talents and Q improving talents seem to be what I see most often.
Man, I was the same way. But Holy Ground is the new Cast Aside.
Generalísimo de Fuerzas Armadas de la República Argentina
I think I'm gonna wait until the inevitable tweak that blizz will have to make to Artanis before I spend much time on him.
In the meantime I grabbed Tyrael for gold and need to get Sonya to 9 or 10 still.
Any pro-tips from Tyrael players out there?
Tyrael (henceforth referred to as Ty-REAL, Tyrone, or T-Dawg) was my first and only Master Skin so I'm use that as basis for being qualified. Even though I haven't played him in literally forever. HERE WE GO.
There isn't a whole lot of variance with this build. Battle Momentum is... honestly mandatory, I'd say. Your abilties (and especially Judgment) will ALWAYS be up. Burning Rage is pretty standard at 13, but if you need Imposing Will, grab it. You can opt for Holy Ground over BFB at 16 if you want a bit more in the way of CC. Level 20 I left blank, your options there are either Angel of Justice or Hardened Shield. Nexus Blades isn't really worth it and I'll explain why in a bit.
Same rules apply here for deviating from the standard picks. Salvation at 16 is honestly a bit of a sleeper pick, I think, mess around with it and see if you like it. It's very very strong.
Now, going back a bit, I mentioned that Nexus Blades isn't worth it. Time to explain that. So, Tyrael oddly has all these autoattack talents sprinkled in (Vampiric Strike, Searing Attacks, Angelic Might, Blade of Justice, Nexus Blades), but the issue is that the damage is all based off Tyrael's base autoattack damage. And his base autoattack damage is not good. He does 170 damage per auto at level 20, if that gives you any indication. So I mean, yeah, I'd avoid those talents.
Anyway, here's some general Tyrael tips, or T-Tips:
- Careful with your Q usage. It's really not an engage, I mean. If you've played Muradin or Anub'arak, you should already be familiar with this same philosophy. It's a mobility skill pretty much. Use it to escape, use it to chase down, use it to bodyblock, but be careful with using it to engage.
- You can also juke pretty dang well with your Q, given that you can toss it down ahead of time and it persists for a while. If you do this, though, make sure you're not going to need it in the immediate future.
- His Q also Slows, twice. Once on the initial hit, and once when you teleport to your Sword. Something to keep in mind.
- Tyrael's Shield is pretty good. Make sure you're shielding your allies and not just you, as well. Also, this is a bit of an odd nuance, but Tyrael's shield is actually a hard fucking counter to Q-Build Azmodans, no joke. Tyrael's Shield also shields minions, so you can use your shield right before his Globe hits to deny him those stacks.
- Tyrael's E is great for disengaging because of the movespeed it provides. Similarly, great for chasing. Keep an eye out for those kinds of situations.
- His Trait is kinda garbo, but I've grown an appreciation of what it can do. Sometimes it's actually worth dying on purpose in order to turn teamfights around, but those situations are VERY rare. You're not Uther, you don't really gain a benefit for suiciding. In general, though, if you're low on health or you're being chased and it's an inescapable situation, just stay and fight and blow up on some fools.
I like spiders. My problem with BoE is that NPC damage is an enormous component of it. Also the rng on immortal stuns is butt.
I posted about this like a week ago but both diablo maps suffer a large amount from being incredibly comp dependant. BoE is probably the worst for it.
Having like Hammer and Butcher on one team and nothing comparable on the other and the game is suddenly hugely tilted against the other team. To a silly degree.
Anyway, here's some general Tyrael tips, or T-Tips:
- Careful with your Q usage. It's really not an engage, I mean. If you've played Muradin or Anub'arak, you should already be familiar with this same philosophy. It's a mobility skill pretty much. Use it to escape, use it to chase down, use it to bodyblock, but be careful with using it to engage.
- You can also juke pretty dang well with your Q, given that you can toss it down ahead of time and it persists for a while. If you do this, though, make sure you're not going to need it in the immediate future.
- His Q also Slows, twice. Once on the initial hit, and once when you teleport to your Sword. Something to keep in mind.
- Tyrael's Shield is pretty good. Make sure you're shielding your allies and not just you, as well. Also, this is a bit of an odd nuance, but Tyrael's shield is actually a hard fucking counter to Q-Build Azmodans, no joke. Tyrael's Shield also shields minions, so you can use your shield right before his Globe hits to deny him those stacks.
- Tyrael's E is great for disengaging because of the movespeed it provides. Similarly, great for chasing. Keep an eye out for those kinds of situations.
- His Trait is kinda garbo, but I've grown an appreciation of what it can do. Sometimes it's actually worth dying on purpose in order to turn teamfights around, but those situations are VERY rare. You're not Uther, you don't really gain a benefit for suiciding. In general, though, if you're low on health or you're being chased and it's an inescapable situation, just stay and fight and blow up on some fools.
This is why I love this forum... Tips like these and that others have posted have probably saved me 10 games of dicking around figuring out weird nuance stuff on my own through painful trial and error.
Thanks everyone!
Now I just need a day off so I can actually play instead of lurking on here all night.
Wondering why the melees with 2 range have 2 range? Because they physically have longer attacks. Arthas has a longsword, Leoric has a big fuckoff mace, Kerrigan stabs out with her wings, and Chen has that big staff thing. They just have reach weapons.
By that logic, Artanis must be wielding toothpicks.
I think I'm gonna wait until the inevitable tweak that blizz will have to make to Artanis before I spend much time on him.
In the meantime I grabbed Tyrael for gold and need to get Sonya to 9 or 10 still.
Any pro-tips from Tyrael players out there?
Really the main reason I'm playing him so much is all the free heroes on offer this week I already have at 9. Also, he's not 9 yet. Once I get him to 9 (probably during the bonus XP event next week), I'm gonna leave him in the dumpster until he gets fixed.
love the jaina kael abathur leoric tyrande comp vs kerrigan falstad tlv abathur morales.
surprisingly enough, 2 heroes doing damage wasn't enough once jaina and kael got survability talents, especially as they're both super dependent on long cooldowns to do damage!
and then it hits 1am and i lose 4 straight games with just the most nightmarish matchmaking with ultra shitheads. i just have to imagine that the population of this game is so small that there just aren't enough people at night to make stuff not garbage. 4 losses with a total of about 10 kills on my team between all of them.
And for those who weren't around for it period, Cast Aside was a Smite talent Tyrael used to have at 13. It would cause Smite to push enemy Heroes away/towards you, depending on where you hit with it. It would push "outward" from the center, so aiming it in front of someone would push them back towards you.
Cast Aside made Tyrael a goddamn beast of a bruiser, he could dictate teamfights with that talent alone. It was incredible.
I miss it dearly. Tyrael actively became less fun to play with its removal. Holy Ground is good and all, but it's not a replacement for Cast Aside and it never will be.
Posts
Heh, I think it has not found your true mmr yet.
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
abathur on our team never left the base the entire game while complaining about how i didn't leave gazlowe unopposed in bottom lane during temples because the rest of my team was too bad to just split them 1:1 and instead tried to win the fight. ended up with lowest xp on the team. i hate abathur so much.
Holy cow I think she might still be legit! I had 139k healed, and plenty of it was in battle. The couple times I died in team fights my team just folded so I could definitely tell I was making a difference. Also her out of combat healing keeps people going longer without having to go back. (Except for mana)
Here's the build I was using: http://www.heroesfire.com/hots/talent-calculator/brightwing#kCtl but I might try swapping hardened focus with bouncy dust. I was able to keep my health up pretty well so the focus was hardened a lot.
Switch: 6589-6405-3399
https://www.hotslogs.com/Player/Profile?PlayerID=499337
I played Aba again a few times this past week after having not touched him since he hit 10 (it's been a couple of patches)... man he's a lot of fun. Being able to press your R key a second time to jump to your monstro instead of using the map to find him is really convenient and tandem bughat does SO MUCH DAMAGE.
I also played a couple of matches with players who were under account level 10 and were playing aba... some of them really just don't understand the soak mechanics in this game.
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
Kerrigan is single handedly bringing my mmr back to 3k after the worst month ever.
go kerrigan go.
It hasn't processed your losses from today yet. You probably got bumped up from the net 4 points you got yesterday. It may or may not bump you back down once today's games are processed.
Switch: 6589-6405-3399
Yes.
Ah, interesting.
I usually upload a few weeks worth of games all at once, and something like 80% of my uploads are duplicates.
p.s. @So It Goes We're at something like a 65% win rate together. We can't be beat! Except I guess for the times that we are.
Switch: 6589-6405-3399
i had her at level 3 before this, decided to play her on tuesday when she was free since i don't own her.
i just got level 9 in my last game. soooo been playing a lot of kerrigan.
I never understood how I was uploading a duplicate of a match.
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
Also Muradin has those dwarf arms... range of 1.0 seems accurate.
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
I felt really rusty tonight. Luckilly I shaped up a bit at the end, but I just couldn't get a judge for positioning for awhile there.
With that being the case though, should Artanis not have the same attack range as Zeratul?
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
In the meantime I grabbed Tyrael for gold and need to get Sonya to 9 or 10 still.
Any pro-tips from Tyrael players out there?
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
Tyrael is the best dive tank in the game, I think. I strongly push for two-tank comps including Tyrael against double mages, or even against one mage and sylvanas. He can't reallllly solo tank though.
Holy Ground at 16 is your definitive talent. The blocking is so good to move your standard targets back towards your team.
But I'm pretty sure most people are building him for damage and chase. Auto attack improving talents and Q improving talents seem to be what I see most often.
this concludes tyreal tips.
In my experience she can make big trade-offs between dps and survivability.
Man, I was the same way. But Holy Ground is the new Cast Aside.
Tyrael (henceforth referred to as Ty-REAL, Tyrone, or T-Dawg) was my first and only Master Skin so I'm use that as basis for being qualified. Even though I haven't played him in literally forever. HERE WE GO.
Tyrael has 2 or so builds with a few variance. We'll call these the tanky build and the damage/bruiser build. We'll go over the Damage build first: http://www.heroesfire.com/hots/talent-calculator/tyrael#onoa
There isn't a whole lot of variance with this build. Battle Momentum is... honestly mandatory, I'd say. Your abilties (and especially Judgment) will ALWAYS be up. Burning Rage is pretty standard at 13, but if you need Imposing Will, grab it. You can opt for Holy Ground over BFB at 16 if you want a bit more in the way of CC. Level 20 I left blank, your options there are either Angel of Justice or Hardened Shield. Nexus Blades isn't really worth it and I'll explain why in a bit.
Next up is the Tanky build: http://www.heroesfire.com/hots/talent-calculator/tyrael#rr8B
Same rules apply here for deviating from the standard picks. Salvation at 16 is honestly a bit of a sleeper pick, I think, mess around with it and see if you like it. It's very very strong.
Now, going back a bit, I mentioned that Nexus Blades isn't worth it. Time to explain that. So, Tyrael oddly has all these autoattack talents sprinkled in (Vampiric Strike, Searing Attacks, Angelic Might, Blade of Justice, Nexus Blades), but the issue is that the damage is all based off Tyrael's base autoattack damage. And his base autoattack damage is not good. He does 170 damage per auto at level 20, if that gives you any indication. So I mean, yeah, I'd avoid those talents.
Anyway, here's some general Tyrael tips, or T-Tips:
- Careful with your Q usage. It's really not an engage, I mean. If you've played Muradin or Anub'arak, you should already be familiar with this same philosophy. It's a mobility skill pretty much. Use it to escape, use it to chase down, use it to bodyblock, but be careful with using it to engage.
- You can also juke pretty dang well with your Q, given that you can toss it down ahead of time and it persists for a while. If you do this, though, make sure you're not going to need it in the immediate future.
- His Q also Slows, twice. Once on the initial hit, and once when you teleport to your Sword. Something to keep in mind.
- Tyrael's Shield is pretty good. Make sure you're shielding your allies and not just you, as well. Also, this is a bit of an odd nuance, but Tyrael's shield is actually a hard fucking counter to Q-Build Azmodans, no joke. Tyrael's Shield also shields minions, so you can use your shield right before his Globe hits to deny him those stacks.
- Tyrael's E is great for disengaging because of the movespeed it provides. Similarly, great for chasing. Keep an eye out for those kinds of situations.
- His Trait is kinda garbo, but I've grown an appreciation of what it can do. Sometimes it's actually worth dying on purpose in order to turn teamfights around, but those situations are VERY rare. You're not Uther, you don't really gain a benefit for suiciding. In general, though, if you're low on health or you're being chased and it's an inescapable situation, just stay and fight and blow up on some fools.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
I posted about this like a week ago but both diablo maps suffer a large amount from being incredibly comp dependant. BoE is probably the worst for it.
Having like Hammer and Butcher on one team and nothing comparable on the other and the game is suddenly hugely tilted against the other team. To a silly degree.
This is why I love this forum... Tips like these and that others have posted have probably saved me 10 games of dicking around figuring out weird nuance stuff on my own through painful trial and error.
Thanks everyone!
Now I just need a day off so I can actually play instead of lurking on here all night.
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
Really the main reason I'm playing him so much is all the free heroes on offer this week I already have at 9. Also, he's not 9 yet. Once I get him to 9 (probably during the bonus XP event next week), I'm gonna leave him in the dumpster until he gets fixed.
surprisingly enough, 2 heroes doing damage wasn't enough once jaina and kael got survability talents, especially as they're both super dependent on long cooldowns to do damage!
and then it hits 1am and i lose 4 straight games with just the most nightmarish matchmaking with ultra shitheads. i just have to imagine that the population of this game is so small that there just aren't enough people at night to make stuff not garbage. 4 losses with a total of about 10 kills on my team between all of them.
And for those who weren't around for it period, Cast Aside was a Smite talent Tyrael used to have at 13. It would cause Smite to push enemy Heroes away/towards you, depending on where you hit with it. It would push "outward" from the center, so aiming it in front of someone would push them back towards you.
Cast Aside made Tyrael a goddamn beast of a bruiser, he could dictate teamfights with that talent alone. It was incredible.
I miss it dearly. Tyrael actively became less fun to play with its removal. Holy Ground is good and all, but it's not a replacement for Cast Aside and it never will be.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582