Someone posted that in our local fb group. Someone else mentioned that in the forums, people are mostly saying you can only drop one of each bomb with munitions (as in, you can only discard each bomb once), though you can get a single ring with it.
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Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
that's so gross, and it's hilarious that one of the primary obstacles to running that list is not having enough cluster bomb tokens
in other news, chrysis and I shot lasers in space
his oicunn and whisper eliminated all 3 of my TAPS, but all of them were able to fire concussion missiles at Oicunn for a total of 11 damage, and vessery was able to outmaneuver Whisper because white k-turns are insane, vape her, and finish off oicunn, who limped into that exchange with 1 hull
do we care about margin of victory or any of that?
Someone posted that in our local fb group. Someone else mentioned that in the forums, people are mostly saying you can only drop one of each bomb with munitions (as in, you can only discard each bomb once), though you can get a single ring with it.
Except that Extra Munitions reads 'When you are instructed to discard an Upgrade card, you may discard 1 ordnance token on that card instead."
Someone posted that in our local fb group. Someone else mentioned that in the forums, people are mostly saying you can only drop one of each bomb with munitions (as in, you can only discard each bomb once), though you can get a single ring with it.
Except that Extra Munitions reads 'When you are instructed to discard an Upgrade card, you may discard 1 ordnance token on that card instead."
So RAW, it should work.
No, the argument is that you can't discard the card twice to the same effect, so you can discard the EM token but can't then also discard the card.
Someone posted that in our local fb group. Someone else mentioned that in the forums, people are mostly saying you can only drop one of each bomb with munitions (as in, you can only discard each bomb once), though you can get a single ring with it.
Except that Extra Munitions reads 'When you are instructed to discard an Upgrade card, you may discard 1 ordnance token on that card instead."
So RAW, it should work.
No, the argument is that you can't discard the card twice to the same effect, so you can discard the EM token but can't then also discard the card.
That's an argument that needs to be settled officially, to be sure.
Gonna rain on the parade a bit.
Here's the thing about the cluster mine encirclement;
You're spending all of your points to make it happen. All of them.
Once it's out there, you have three generic Punishers with a couple of rockets to get it done.
Your adversary can probably just fly around inside the ring for a pretty reasonable number of turns. When they decide to exit, they can fly something chunky through to clear a path. Their maneuver template is going to connect with probably two of the mines. So you're basically spending 30 points and committing your entire list to a roughly 60% chance of doing one damage to a target of your opponent's choosing.
And then you have to deal with the fact that all of those remaining mines are obstructing your normal K-turn area.
Yup. It's a terrible plan. And let's be honest, there's no actual reason to fly out unless you know you can tank it. And if there's no way out, there's no way in.
Tri-Optimum reminds you that there are only one-hundred-sixty-three shopping days until Christmas. Just 1 extra work cycle twice a week will give you the spending money you need to make this holiday a very special one.
It would definitely be fun to play it out and see what happens. :-)
Just don't think it's going to be dominating any tournaments.
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H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
edited June 2017
Are they explosive mines, or are they like the 'mines' in TIE Fighter which were basically stationary blaster-turret drones? Because, it's a game of spacecraft, not tanks moving over land, or surface ships at sea. You should be able to just fly above or below the mines, right?
Are they explosive mines, or are they like the 'mines' in TIE Fighter which were basically stationary blaster-turret drones? Because, it's a game of spacecraft, not tanks moving over land, or surface ships at sea. You should be able to just fly above or below the mines, right?
Explosive mines, not laser turrets.
Well, not yet, anyway.
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H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
edited June 2017
I guess I don't understand how explosive mines would work in space. I mean, Star Wars' space battles aren't remotely realistic, but they're largely based on air combat from World War 2, which also didn't see much use of explosive mines (surprise!). It just seems like an odd inclusion to me. I guess if you could release it in your wake while being pursued it would shake the enemy off your tail? Generally in the fully 3D environs of spaceflight it doesn't seem like they'd be very effective at deterrence or obstruction unless they had a massively over-size blast radius for their intended targets, at which point they become impractical.
Edit: Or if they're like a dormant guided warhead that sits idle until it can get a target lock on a hostile and then takes off after them. I forget where that idea comes from.
That TIE Fighter mission where you had to protect a ship caught in a minefield of those drone turrets was a real pain in the ass, though.
I guess I don't understand how explosive mines would work in space. I mean, Star Wars' space battles aren't remotely realistic, but they're largely based on air combat from World War 2, which also didn't see much use of explosive mines (surprise!). It just seems like an odd inclusion to me. I guess if you could release it in your wake while being pursued it would shake the enemy off your tail? Generally in the fully 3D environs of spaceflight it doesn't seem like they'd be very effective at deterrence or obstruction unless they had a massively over-size blast radius for their intended targets, at which point they become impractical.
Edit: Or if they're like a dormant guided warhead that sits idle until it can get a target lock on a hostile and then takes off after them. I forget where that idea comes from.
That TIE Fighter mission where you had to protect a ship caught in a minefield of those drone turrets was a real pain in the ass, though.
Right, but if you are placing more than one mine, you need to arrange them into a wall-like 2D planar formation, not a simple row or 3D movement renders it obsolete. Now consider that Star Wars spacecraft can fly from a planet's surface into space (like, distances of 120,000 miles in Earth's case) in minutes. How many mines are you laying to create an effective field, and how many spacecraft do you need that are equipped to deploy them (when most are carrying a dozen or two tops)? It's just not efficient or practical unless you can exploit something like an asteroid belt's debris. But that only works if the enemy has some reason to go into or through the asteroids, and you can anticipate that action. Now, the impression I always got from the sequence in Empire was that even a seasoned smuggler like Han treats it like a desperation measure, not to mention the risk of loss of spacecraft just trying to deploy the mines with any urgency. I'm saying that outside of trying to discourage a pursuing craft (like the Obi vs Jango chase), mines are really impractical, with only very situational use in space, unless they have very different mechanical behavior from a conventional 'sit and explodes when something gets near' model.
TLDR; it takes an astronomical number of mines to block the path of even a single fighter in an astronomical environment. I'll shut up about this now, I just wanted to try and do a better job explaining my point.
H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
edited June 2017
Hey, I'm just saying I want weird and wacky options for space mines. Laser turret drones, delayed action guided missiles, or, like those mines from Galaxy Quest that follow you around. Those are both more appropriate and more interesting from a gameplay perspective.
Hey, I'm just saying I want weird and wacky options for space mines. Laser turret drones, delayed action guided missiles, or, like those mines from Galaxy Quest that follow you around. Those are both more appropriate and more interesting from a gameplay perspective.
To be fair, the mine field in Galaxy Quest is a huge number of mines and deployed on a scale well above what most people would consider practical to the point where it was mistaken for a cloud. And even with that volume of space covered, it still could have been easily navigated around if not for the whole pursuit and turbo burning out that was going on at the time.
Check out 1:42 ish, and try to count how many mines are there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zSpueUqvcs
http://xwing-miniatures.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Bombs
And there is a fair amount of variation in the bombs that are available. But, within the rules of the game, that pretty much boils down to "how much damage do you take"?
I'm just wondering how you would model "magnetic pursuit mines" within the rule set for the game that would be functionally different than the current mines without adding a substantial amount of complexity.
How about remote control mines? Deploy them from your ship as usual, then you can spend an Action to move them. Give them a 1 move template (2 with a Custom Title card) and let the chase begin!
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If I'm reading this right, Pure Sabaac can Snap Shot with 3 dice, right?
Omega Leader's FAQ entry says adding/removing dice that way isn't modifying (referencing Jan Ors), and Pure Sabaac doesn't specify anything other than "add 1 die to attacks", so...
I know I've been a pain to try to schedule with admanb. Being on opposite coasts has complicated the issue as well. Today's my anniversary, but maybe tomorrow night or another night this week.
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
I know I've been a pain to try to schedule with admanb. Being on opposite coasts has complicated the issue as well. Today's my anniversary, but maybe tomorrow night or another night this week.
We suck but we are definitely still here and trying.
I know I've been a pain to try to schedule with admanb. Being on opposite coasts has complicated the issue as well. Today's my anniversary, but maybe tomorrow night or another night this week.
There's really no pressure as far as I'm concerned. Just trying to keep things moving along where practical.
I have not personally managed to play a league game yet, though I've been feeling the itch.
As for the tournament I came in second to last and earned it. IG-88A with Asajj Ventris carrying IG-88. I forgot to regain shields every single game and flew like crap, but there were ten of us and it was fun so what more can I ask for? Also I dropped cluster mines directly on ships each game and one-shot Soontir so that felt good. It's the small victories that count.
Librarian's ghostLibrarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSporkRegistered Userregular
Okay here is a detailed battle report.
I have Rey with Expertise, Finn, Kanan, Falcon (TFA) title, Smuggling Compartment, Inertial Dampener, Anti-Pursuit Lasers
Horton Salm, TLT, The R2-D6, Expertise, Plasma Torpedo, Guidance Chips.
He had Pure Sabbac, The Duchess, Darth Vader.
Turn 1. All his go three forward. Falcon is facing them and goes four forward. Horton 3 banks from the right back edge into the middle.
Turn 2. His guys go a mix of one ant two in. Falcon goes three straight. Horton goes three straight. Vader is out of target lock range for Horton so both he and Rey target lock The Duchess.
Vader shoots and strips some shields off Rey. Duchess does also. Rey one shots Duchess with four hits and a crit. Horton takes two shields off Vader with the TLT. Sabbac is out or fire arc as he passed Rey.
Turn 3. Sabbac 1 banks then 1 turns around Rey and comes in behind. Rey throws the emergency breaks on and uses the dampeners to do a 0. Horton does 1 straight and target locks Vader. Vader runs into Rey and losses his last shield to the anti-pursuit lasers.
Vader fires at Horton and takes off two shields. Rey fires at Sabbac behind her and does two damage. Horton fires a plasma torpedo at Vader. Combined with Expertise and his own ability he rolls two hits and two crits. Vader evades one and explodes.
I have Rey with Expertise, Finn, Kanan, Falcon (TFA) title, Smuggling Compartment, Inertial Dampener, Anti-Pursuit Lasers
Horton Salm, TLT, The R2-D6, Expertise, Plasma Torpedo, Guidance Chips.
He had Pure Sabbac, The Duchess, Darth Vader.
Turn 1. All his go three forward. Falcon is facing them and goes four forward. Horton 3 banks from the right back edge into the middle.
Turn 2. His guys go a mix of one ant two in. Falcon goes three straight. Horton goes three straight. Vader is out of target lock range for Horton so both he and Rey target lock The Duchess.
Vader shoots and strips some shields off Rey. Duchess does also. Rey one shots Duchess with four hits and a crit. Horton takes two shields off Vader with the TLT. Sabbac is out or fire arc as he passed Rey.
Turn 3. Sabbac 1 banks then 1 turns around Rey and comes in behind. Rey throws the emergency breaks on and uses the dampeners to do a 0. Horton does 1 straight and target locks Vader. Vader runs into Rey and losses his last shield to the anti-pursuit lasers.
Vader fires at Horton and takes off two shields. Rey fires at Sabbac behind her and does two damage. Horton fires a plasma torpedo at Vader. Combined with Expertise and his own ability he rolls two hits and two crits. Vader evades one and explodes.
My opponent gives up right after that.
Horton with Expertise is amazing!
Rey continues to be OP with Finn and Expertise.
I haven't been collecting ships since wave 4, so I'm absurdly behind. I still follow the releases though since I love the game itself.
That being said, I had to plug your squad into a generator to understand how all those cards worked together. Pretty cool stuff, although I do think the TLT being an almost guaranteed 2 damage is bad design.
Need a voice actor? Hire me at bengrayVO.com
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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in other news, chrysis and I shot lasers in space
his oicunn and whisper eliminated all 3 of my TAPS, but all of them were able to fire concussion missiles at Oicunn for a total of 11 damage, and vessery was able to outmaneuver Whisper because white k-turns are insane, vape her, and finish off oicunn, who limped into that exchange with 1 hull
do we care about margin of victory or any of that?
anyway my list worked mainly as intended, so that's exciting
Except that Extra Munitions reads 'When you are instructed to discard an Upgrade card, you may discard 1 ordnance token on that card instead."
So RAW, it should work.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
No, the argument is that you can't discard the card twice to the same effect, so you can discard the EM token but can't then also discard the card.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
That's an argument that needs to be settled officially, to be sure.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Here's the thing about the cluster mine encirclement;
You're spending all of your points to make it happen. All of them.
Once it's out there, you have three generic Punishers with a couple of rockets to get it done.
Your adversary can probably just fly around inside the ring for a pretty reasonable number of turns. When they decide to exit, they can fly something chunky through to clear a path. Their maneuver template is going to connect with probably two of the mines. So you're basically spending 30 points and committing your entire list to a roughly 60% chance of doing one damage to a target of your opponent's choosing.
And then you have to deal with the fact that all of those remaining mines are obstructing your normal K-turn area.
Just don't think it's going to be dominating any tournaments.
Well, not yet, anyway.
Edit: Or if they're like a dormant guided warhead that sits idle until it can get a target lock on a hostile and then takes off after them. I forget where that idea comes from.
That TIE Fighter mission where you had to protect a ship caught in a minefield of those drone turrets was a real pain in the ass, though.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
There is no good outcome to such a discussion.
Here's why they work.
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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Right, but if you are placing more than one mine, you need to arrange them into a wall-like 2D planar formation, not a simple row or 3D movement renders it obsolete. Now consider that Star Wars spacecraft can fly from a planet's surface into space (like, distances of 120,000 miles in Earth's case) in minutes. How many mines are you laying to create an effective field, and how many spacecraft do you need that are equipped to deploy them (when most are carrying a dozen or two tops)? It's just not efficient or practical unless you can exploit something like an asteroid belt's debris. But that only works if the enemy has some reason to go into or through the asteroids, and you can anticipate that action. Now, the impression I always got from the sequence in Empire was that even a seasoned smuggler like Han treats it like a desperation measure, not to mention the risk of loss of spacecraft just trying to deploy the mines with any urgency. I'm saying that outside of trying to discourage a pursuing craft (like the Obi vs Jango chase), mines are really impractical, with only very situational use in space, unless they have very different mechanical behavior from a conventional 'sit and explodes when something gets near' model.
TLDR; it takes an astronomical number of mines to block the path of even a single fighter in an astronomical environment. I'll shut up about this now, I just wanted to try and do a better job explaining my point.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
To be fair, the mine field in Galaxy Quest is a huge number of mines and deployed on a scale well above what most people would consider practical to the point where it was mistaken for a cloud. And even with that volume of space covered, it still could have been easily navigated around if not for the whole pursuit and turbo burning out that was going on at the time.
Check out 1:42 ish, and try to count how many mines are there.
http://xwing-miniatures.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Bombs
And there is a fair amount of variation in the bombs that are available. But, within the rules of the game, that pretty much boils down to "how much damage do you take"?
I'm just wondering how you would model "magnetic pursuit mines" within the rule set for the game that would be functionally different than the current mines without adding a substantial amount of complexity.
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
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Went out to FFG and picked up a pair of TIE Strikers & Imperial Veterans.
I also snagged this nifty binder;
It's a decent leatherette and it holds allllllllll of my upgrade cards with plenty of room to spare. Very pleased.
I also splurged in one of the eBay shops and I now have a small mountain of Connor Nets and other swag on the way.
I did consider picking up our Summer League swag, but I figured I would hold off and see if the new wave hits in time.
Now if I can just find time to play a game...
Omega Leader's FAQ entry says adding/removing dice that way isn't modifying (referencing Jan Ors), and Pure Sabaac doesn't specify anything other than "add 1 die to attacks", so...
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
Bounty doubled.
We suck but we are definitely still here and trying.
also saturday afternoon
There's really no pressure as far as I'm concerned. Just trying to keep things moving along where practical.
I have not personally managed to play a league game yet, though I've been feeling the itch.
What Binder is that? I've been looking for something cool to put my 5e spell cards into so each class has a spell book for players to peruse.
Also I just made these after playing in a tournament this weekend.
Wired (1)
Tactical Jammer (1)
· Ysanne Isard (4)
Systems officer (2)
Fleet Officer (3)
· Dauntless (2)
TIE Fighter: · "Howlrunner" (18)
Veteran Instincts (1)
TIE Fighter: · "Chaser" (14)
TIE Fighter: Academy Pilot (12)
-- TOTAL
100p. --
Stay on Target (2)
Ion Projector (2)
K4 Security Droid (3)
· Shadow Caster (3)
Inertial Dampeners (1)
Inertial Dampeners (1)
Y-Wing: Syndicate Thug (18)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
BTL-A4 Y-Wing (0)
Unhinged Astromech (1)
Y-Wing: Syndicate Thug (18)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
BTL-A4 Y-Wing (0)
Unhinged Astromech (1)
-- TOTAL
100p. --
As for the tournament I came in second to last and earned it. IG-88A with Asajj Ventris carrying IG-88. I forgot to regain shields every single game and flew like crap, but there were ten of us and it was fun so what more can I ask for? Also I dropped cluster mines directly on ships each game and one-shot Soontir so that felt good. It's the small victories that count.
Glad I learned today so I can start banking store credit off tourneys.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
pretty interesting stuff
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
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I have Rey with Expertise, Finn, Kanan, Falcon (TFA) title, Smuggling Compartment, Inertial Dampener, Anti-Pursuit Lasers
Horton Salm, TLT, The R2-D6, Expertise, Plasma Torpedo, Guidance Chips.
He had Pure Sabbac, The Duchess, Darth Vader.
Turn 1. All his go three forward. Falcon is facing them and goes four forward. Horton 3 banks from the right back edge into the middle.
Turn 2. His guys go a mix of one ant two in. Falcon goes three straight. Horton goes three straight. Vader is out of target lock range for Horton so both he and Rey target lock The Duchess.
Vader shoots and strips some shields off Rey. Duchess does also. Rey one shots Duchess with four hits and a crit. Horton takes two shields off Vader with the TLT. Sabbac is out or fire arc as he passed Rey.
Turn 3. Sabbac 1 banks then 1 turns around Rey and comes in behind. Rey throws the emergency breaks on and uses the dampeners to do a 0. Horton does 1 straight and target locks Vader. Vader runs into Rey and losses his last shield to the anti-pursuit lasers.
Vader fires at Horton and takes off two shields. Rey fires at Sabbac behind her and does two damage. Horton fires a plasma torpedo at Vader. Combined with Expertise and his own ability he rolls two hits and two crits. Vader evades one and explodes.
My opponent gives up right after that.
Horton with Expertise is amazing!
Rey continues to be OP with Finn and Expertise.
They gave up? I've never given up in a match, and I lose just about all the time. Weird.
It was over next turn no matter what. I had a TLT on Horton and whatever Rey could fire. I needed to do only two damage.
I haven't been collecting ships since wave 4, so I'm absurdly behind. I still follow the releases though since I love the game itself.
That being said, I had to plug your squad into a generator to understand how all those cards worked together. Pretty cool stuff, although I do think the TLT being an almost guaranteed 2 damage is bad design.
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
Steam ID
Twitch Page