Somebody tore down the memorial erected in honor of Robert "LaVoy" Finicum, the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge occupier who was shot and killed last month by Oregon State Police.
The base of the cross still stood Saturday, Feb. 6, not far from the rural road on which Finicum died Jan. 26. A wilted rose and scattered leaves lay next to it, and a piece of broken lumber sat just behind it. A pocket New Testament was propped against the remains of the cross, next to a patch of the American flag. A horseshoe lay in the dirty snow.
The destruction of the memorial is the latest sign that some residents have tired of the occupation at the Harney County wildlife refuge, which has stretched into its sixth week. Though the occupation's leaders have been arrested, four holdouts remain inside.
...
The destruction of the memorial seemed to carry a particular sting for BJ Soper, one of the leaders of the Pacific Patriots Network, a coalition of groups who protest perceived government overreach.
Soper was planning to conduct a memorial with other coalition members by Finicum's cross at 1 p.m. Saturday, but those plans changed after he saw what happened.
"We're going to go buy every damn flag in this town and hang [the cross] back up," he said.
Soper said he would offer $500 to anybody with information about who tore the memorial down. He said he had no idea who might have done it.
"Someone that's un-Christian, that's for damn sure," he said.
No law enforcement agency had anything to do with the destruction of the site, an Oregon State Police spokesman said. An Oregon Department of Transportation spokesman said the agency played no role in its removal.
A group of local people on Facebook was discussing how to voice their support for law enforcement, said Melissa Alfstad, one of the group's members. They decided that a billboard would be a good way to do that.
When one of them called Meadow Outdoor, the company offered to put up two billboards for free, Alfstad said.
One of the billboards reads "Our heroes making Harney County proud" next to a picture of officers in front of the Harney County Sheriff's Office. The other billboard reads "We are Harney County We have our own voice."
At a cost of about $400 per billboard per month, the company will keep the signs up until the occupation is over, said Chris Zukin, general manager.
You would think at some point they would realize they are not wanted there.
Oh sweet Couscous. Not even a billboard that says "GTFO, DIPSHITS" will work to inspire that realization
It's kind of amazing to watch in action. It's like they've ingrained it into themselves so much that the only people that would disagree with them are Federal Agents and, I guess, us Big City folk who don't understand Real Americans, that they can't conceive of other Real Americans that wouldn't automatically support whatever they do. It's a pretty good doublethink going on there, calling themselves '3%ers' and the like while also assuming the majority of people have their back.
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SteevLWhat can I do for you?Registered Userregular
The new lighted sign changes from “Road Closed” to “No Unlawful Entry” to “Subject To Arrest.”
It’s the latest indication that the coalition of law enforcement guarding the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge have no interest in additional militia members, media or curious members of the public getting within five miles of the headquarters.
Reporters looking into the closed-off area from a nearby hill could observe what looked like multiple roadblocks along the road to the refuge headquarters. There was no obvious sign of the four people believed to be mostly camping within the refuge. The only movement to or from the headquarters appeared to be law enforcement vehicles.
Say people do this, this was an extremely stupid decision to broadcast to the world what exactly you're planning to do and the government will counter appropriately if they feel they have to.
It's kind of amazing to watch in action. It's like they've ingrained it into themselves so much that the only people that would disagree with them are Federal Agents and, I guess, us Big City folk who don't understand Real Americans, that they can't conceive of other Real Americans that wouldn't automatically support whatever they do. It's a pretty good doublethink going on there, calling themselves '3%ers' and the like while also assuming the majority of people have their back.
Has any political candidate said anything about what's happening? That alone should be enough to tell them that the rest of the country doesn't support them.
They are cynical opportunists, though. If praising the occupiers would have generated a ton of support rather than an enormous backlash, then they would have done it.
They are cynical opportunists, though. If praising the occupiers would have generated a ton of support rather than an enormous backlash, then they would have done it.
Another question hanging over the case is whether attorneys advised militant leaders to pin certain crimes on younger militants and new recruits.
Before he was arrested, Ryan Bundy said attorneys gave him and other occupation leaders lists of laws to steer clear of breaking.
Ammon Bundy also said that attorneys had inventoried potential legal violations, and had given the militant leaders a list of laws they believed were being broken.
An OPB reporter saw militant leader Ryan Payne, who headed the security team at the refuge before he was arrested, giving orders to young militants.
Some of them had arrived at the refuge hours before and were new to the group.
Payne was also seen stopping now deceased militant Robert “LaVoy” Finicum from getting into a white, federally owned truck.
“You don’t do that, have them do that,” Payne said as he pointed a new arrival who went by the name of “Joe.”
An OPB reporter also witnessed Ammon Bundy telling television journalists that he would not drive federally owned vehicles, use federal computers, or engage in other illegal activities that other, rank-and-file, militants had done.
Ryan Bundy was asked about his brother’s comments, and acknowledged militant leaders would not engage in those visible crimes, because younger militants and newer recruits were less likely to be prosecuted.
“The government’s going to leave those guys alone,” Ryan Bundy said.
Two of the last holdouts on the refuge — David Fry and Sandy Anderson — confirmed to OPB that they, too, saw militant leaders order those outside the inner circle to break laws, like using government computers, driving federal vehicles, or plowing new roads on the refuge.
But in one of his last conversations before the FBI severed militants’ communications, holdout Sean Anderson said those orders were not given with the intent of shifting criminal responsibility to new recruits. Anderson added that he “trusted Ammon and Ryan” with his life.
...
Christ, what an asshole!
That action could potentially violate Oregon bar rules, specifically, section 7.3. Portland criminal attorney Janet Hoffman said that the rule prohibits attorneys from soliciting clients by phone, electronic contact or in person...“We expect the litigation to be rather lengthy and expensive so he asked us to set him up with the crowd sourcing page to assist in raising funds,” Casey wrote.
As of Friday, Feb. 5, that page had raised about $27,000 of its $100,000 goal.
Guys, I sense another donation drive in the works.
Again, these allegedly military folks don't seem to know much about militarying. Facebook is nice for a general call to arms, perhaps, but not for discussing mission specs.
With the general paranoia prevalent in this movement, you'd think they would have the decency to conduct their business on TOR networks or something. Fred the Fed's all over facebook, brothers.
He wants to surround the roadblocks with 100 men from two and a half miles away? I'm not sure he understands picket screening.
I think it more likely that he does not understand that "Click" (shouldn't that be with a K?)= "Kilometer".
I'd guess he heard the word used in a movie, was able to deduce that it was a measurement of distance (but not what distance), and has been using it any time an unspecified distance is needed.
Of course, that's also the metric system, and no true blooded 'Murican patriot is gonna use that.
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MortiousThe Nightmare BeginsMove to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
Other then the tarp video, was this LaVoy guy a major player in the militia movement?
Again, these allegedly military folks don't seem to know much about militarying. Facebook is nice for a general call to arms, perhaps, but not for discussing mission specs.
With the general paranoia prevalent in this movement, you'd think they would have the decency to conduct their business on TOR networks or something. Fred the Fed's all over facebook, brothers.
Nonono, you don't understand.
You see, they posted a status update that explicitly said that they DO NOT give the government permission to look at their facebook posts! It even mentioned several amendments to the Constitution! It's ironclad.
Psn:wazukki
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knitdanIn ur baseKillin ur guysRegistered Userregular
Again, these allegedly military folks don't seem to know much about militarying. Facebook is nice for a general call to arms, perhaps, but not for discussing mission specs.
With the general paranoia prevalent in this movement, you'd think they would have the decency to conduct their business on TOR networks or something. Fred the Fed's all over facebook, brothers.
They're calling for 400 people and I'd be amazed if they got 40. Or 14. If they limited it to people tech-savvy enough to use TOR, they'd probably get two overweight IT guys and that's about it.
Again, these allegedly military folks don't seem to know much about militarying. Facebook is nice for a general call to arms, perhaps, but not for discussing mission specs.
With the general paranoia prevalent in this movement, you'd think they would have the decency to conduct their business on TOR networks or something. Fred the Fed's all over facebook, brothers.
They're calling for 400 people and I'd be amazed if they got 40. Or 14. If they limited it to people tech-savvy enough to use TOR, they'd probably get two overweight IT guys and that's about it.
"My entire unit made a tactical retreat to regroup supply and carry out our legal orders from the Common Law Grand Jury of Harney and Grant Counties.
We are running various ops from a secure undisclosed location in a County with a Sheriff who supports us and the cause. Also the Commander of the National Guard of this State said he would roll out his tanks to cover our six if necessary.
They tried to to attack us and or arrest my unit but by the grace of divine Providence my entire team made it out alive , fully intact and operational.
The Constitutional Sheriff told his deputies that we are the good guys and that they are to have our six too while we are running our Constitutional Ops."
This is further down the Facebook page. I'm not sure they could even find two overweight IT guys, but hey, they might have some tanks to cover their six!
He wants to surround the roadblocks with 100 men from two and a half miles away? I'm not sure he understands picket screening.
Is that what he was saying? He used the word "Cordon" so much I thought this was a new version of "Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo." "I need 400 men to cordon off the cordons with 100 men behind each cordon to cordon off the cordons about 4 clicks behind each cordon. Cordon."
He wants to surround the roadblocks with 100 men from two and a half miles away? I'm not sure he understands picket screening.
Is that what he was saying? He used the word "Cordon" so much I thought this was a new version of "Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo." "I need 400 men to cordon off the cordons with 100 men behind each cordon to cordon off the cordons about 4 clicks behind each cordon. Cordon."
That's what my brain interpreted it as.
What he's probably doing is channeling his inner Deputy US Marshal Sam Gerard and, as see317 suggests, using terminology that he doesn't fully understand. I mean, I don't even know what the terrain looks like. So I don't know how far away the roadblocks can see or what they would do to react to being surrounded by 100 armed belligerents from any distance.
I also don't see the strategic value of surrounding four roadblocks anyway.
He wants to surround the roadblocks with 100 men from two and a half miles away? I'm not sure he understands picket screening.
Is that what he was saying? He used the word "Cordon" so much I thought this was a new version of "Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo." "I need 400 men to cordon off the cordons with 100 men behind each cordon to cordon off the cordons about 4 clicks behind each cordon. Cordon."
That's what my brain interpreted it as.
What he's probably doing is channeling his inner Deputy US Marshal Sam Gerard and, as see317 suggests, using terminology that he doesn't fully understand. I mean, I don't even know what the terrain looks like. So I don't know how far away the roadblocks can see or what they would do to react to being surrounded by 100 armed belligerents from any distance.
I also don't see the strategic value of surrounding four roadblocks anyway.
The ultimate goal is probably to do something like to "peacefully" surround all of the law enforcement personnel with their own vehicles, preventing them from taking vehicles out of the circle. Meanwhile, someone drives a truck in to the ranch, picks up the brave men trapped inside, and rides off into the sunset. Trapped by the circle of well armed and entirely peaceful protesters, the senior LEOs jump on their hats and curse and call Obama to ask what they do now while the junior LEOs with tearful eyes quietly salute those brave souls.
Shadowhope on
Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
It's kind of amazing to watch in action. It's like they've ingrained it into themselves so much that the only people that would disagree with them are Federal Agents and, I guess, us Big City folk who don't understand Real Americans, that they can't conceive of other Real Americans that wouldn't automatically support whatever they do. It's a pretty good doublethink going on there, calling themselves '3%ers' and the like while also assuming the majority of people have their back.
Has any political candidate said anything about what's happening? That alone should be enough to tell them that the rest of the country doesn't support them.
Ironically, Ted cruz is the one politician who was asked about the occupation a couple of weeks back and answered back very clearly that the militia should disperse because what they were doing was illegal.
Maybe Ted Cruz could disperse the militia by sending out e-mails and reports telling them that the government has acquiesced to all their demands so they don't need to stay there.
Again, these allegedly military folks don't seem to know much about militarying. Facebook is nice for a general call to arms, perhaps, but not for discussing mission specs.
With the general paranoia prevalent in this movement, you'd think they would have the decency to conduct their business on TOR networks or something. Fred the Fed's all over facebook, brothers.
You might be surprised how often that actually happens in the military. They would regularly call out people for posting about their patrols on facebook or posting pictures from their base or their missions with the exif data still intact (FYI images you take with your phone, and many cameras, have a tag on them that states what relay towers they're nearby and the GPS location, if active, when you take it).
Hell, the first solid proof the international community had that the soldiers that took over Ukraine were, in fact, Russian was when a Russian soldier posted to his social media about going on patrol and the exif data was for Ukraine.
He wants to surround the roadblocks with 100 men from two and a half miles away? I'm not sure he understands picket screening.
Is that what he was saying? He used the word "Cordon" so much I thought this was a new version of "Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo." "I need 400 men to cordon off the cordons with 100 men behind each cordon to cordon off the cordons about 4 clicks behind each cordon. Cordon."
That's what my brain interpreted it as.
What he's probably doing is channeling his inner Deputy US Marshal Sam Gerard and, as see317 suggests, using terminology that he doesn't fully understand. I mean, I don't even know what the terrain looks like. So I don't know how far away the roadblocks can see or what they would do to react to being surrounded by 100 armed belligerents from any distance.
I also don't see the strategic value of surrounding four roadblocks anyway.
The ultimate goal is probably to do something like to "peacefully" surround all of the law enforcement personnel with their own vehicles, preventing them from taking vehicles out of the circle. Meanwhile, someone drives a truck in to the ranch, picks up the brave men trapped inside, and rides off into the sunset. Trapped by the circle of well armed and entirely peaceful protesters, the senior LEOs jump on their hats and curse and call Obama to ask what they do now while the junior LEOs with tearful eyes quietly salute those brave souls.
I always love the fantasy these yabbos have that military and law enforcement are secretly with them they just can't announce it, but obviously when they emerge ET style their brothers will stand with them in a glorious second civil war!
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I think part of it comes from the fact that, on some level, they have to be aware that they couldn't actually beat the military. So for their fantasy to work, the military has to be on their side, therefore the military must be on their side.
One conspiracy theory that's always amused me is the conspiracy that troops from the UN are going to come and take over the US. I wonder if they realize that these "UN" troops would pretty much have to be US troops wearing a different logo.
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knitdanIn ur baseKillin ur guysRegistered Userregular
The funny thing is
A big part of the gun obsession is the fantasy that they will one day use those guns to fight off a tyrannical government
But then they also convince themselves that the military will be on their side
Which would make their own guns unnecessary
Or oh noes the UN is invading
Guess who makes up the majority of UN forces, sport?
It's our own friggin military
The guys you think will be on your side
“I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
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Dr. ChaosPost nuclear nuisanceRegistered Userregular
edited February 2016
Wouldn't the founding fathers kind of be horrified at some of the weapons civilians can carry around these days? Shit that can spit out lead and kill an entire group of people in just seconds.
They just had slowly reloading rifles with those musket ball things. But then again, they also had slaves so who knows. Things were pretty fucked up back then.
Wouldn't the founding fathers kind of be horrified at some of the weapons civilians can carry around these days? Shit that can spit out lead and kill an entire group of people in just seconds.
They just had slowly reloading rifles with those musket ball things. But then again, they also had slaves so who knows. Things were pretty fucked up back then.
I have to think there's a long list of things the Founding Fathers would be horrified about if they could see the modern world.
I'm sure that the firepower that a single person can carry would be on that list, but I can't imagine it would be at the top.
Wouldn't the founding fathers kind of be horrified at some of the weapons civilians can carry around these days? Shit that can spit out lead and kill an entire group of people in just seconds.
They just had slowly reloading rifles with those musket ball things. But then again, they also had slaves so who knows. Things were pretty fucked up back then.
This is pretty much the defacto reason I take issue with people arguing how the founders wanted everyone to be armed; in the late 18th/early 19th century a rapid fire weapon was one which could be loaded and fired 7 times in a minute, and those suckers were wildly inacurate at a range greater then 80 feet.
But it's also wandering off topic from the oregon situation so...
I think part of it comes from the fact that, on some level, they have to be aware that they couldn't actually beat the military. So for their fantasy to work, the military has to be on their side, therefore the military must be on their side.
One conspiracy theory that's always amused me is the conspiracy that troops from the UN are going to come and take over the US. I wonder if they realize that these "UN" troops would pretty much have to be US troops wearing a different logo.
It's also because they see themselves as the real patriots and the strong connections between the military and patriotism in the US mean they can't see themselves as being anti-military.
It's why they focus so much on "The Feds" as the enemy.
I think part of it comes from the fact that, on some level, they have to be aware that they couldn't actually beat the military. So for their fantasy to work, the military has to be on their side, therefore the military must be on their side.
One conspiracy theory that's always amused me is the conspiracy that troops from the UN are going to come and take over the US. I wonder if they realize that these "UN" troops would pretty much have to be US troops wearing a different logo.
It's also because they see themselves as the real patriots and the strong connections between the military and patriotism in the US mean they can't see themselves as being anti-military.
It's why they focus so much on "The Feds" as the enemy.
Well, that and some of them are ex-miitary. And they probably had an anti-government stance while enlisted and nobody really argued with them about it, instead just sitting there quietly hoping he'd shut up listening in rapt attention and undoubtedly agreeing to join him when the time comes...
Again, these allegedly military folks don't seem to know much about militarying. Facebook is nice for a general call to arms, perhaps, but not for discussing mission specs.
With the general paranoia prevalent in this movement, you'd think they would have the decency to conduct their business on TOR networks or something. Fred the Fed's all over facebook, brothers.
i think they genuinely believe they are somehow untouchable, that ultimately they are legally entitled somehow according to the constitution or whatever, so they arent bothering to hide their activities. Also maybe they somehow believe there is still going to be an event that galvanizes public support for them, and theyre trying to bring about that event?
Wouldn't the founding fathers kind of be horrified at some of the weapons civilians can carry around these days? Shit that can spit out lead and kill an entire group of people in just seconds.
They just had slowly reloading rifles with those musket ball things. But then again, they also had slaves so who knows. Things were pretty fucked up back then.
This is pretty much the defacto reason I take issue with people arguing how the founders wanted everyone to be armed; in the late 18th/early 19th century a rapid fire weapon was one which could be loaded and fired 7 times in a minute, and those suckers were wildly inacurate at a range greater then 80 feet.
Regardless of your opinions on guns in modern day America that is a pretty silly way to look at it - the people the founding fathers wanted American citizens to be armed against also have weapons that fire faster than 7 times a minute.
i think they genuinely believe they are somehow untouchable, that ultimately they are legally entitled somehow according to the constitution or whatever, so they arent bothering to hide their activities. Also maybe they somehow believe there is still going to be an event that galvanizes public support for them, and theyre trying to bring about that event?
There were enough people at Finicum's funeral and at various support rallies that they might think that the entire country is rallying behind them instead of just a few hundred people.
It's like the internet echo chamber conversation from earlier, only in real life.
I think part of it comes from the fact that, on some level, they have to be aware that they couldn't actually beat the military. So for their fantasy to work, the military has to be on their side, therefore the military must be on their side.
One conspiracy theory that's always amused me is the conspiracy that troops from the UN are going to come and take over the US. I wonder if they realize that these "UN" troops would pretty much have to be US troops wearing a different logo.
It's also because they see themselves as the real patriots and the strong connections between the military and patriotism in the US mean they can't see themselves as being anti-military.
It's why they focus so much on "The Feds" as the enemy.
Well, that and some of them are ex-miitary. And they probably had an anti-government stance while enlisted and nobody really argued with them about it, instead just sitting there quietly hoping he'd shut up listening in rapt attention and undoubtedly agreeing to join him when the time comes...
Why would you think that in the military anyone would get more than a few words of anti-government rhetoric out before having someone tell them to shut up?
Choosing to live, die, and kill for a government when you're planning to overthrow it doesn't generally make much sense.
A more likely explanation of the vets supporting them is that they didn't find (crazy) politics until they were older. That, or they're stolen valor types.
I think part of it comes from the fact that, on some level, they have to be aware that they couldn't actually beat the military. So for their fantasy to work, the military has to be on their side, therefore the military must be on their side.
One conspiracy theory that's always amused me is the conspiracy that troops from the UN are going to come and take over the US. I wonder if they realize that these "UN" troops would pretty much have to be US troops wearing a different logo.
It's also because they see themselves as the real patriots and the strong connections between the military and patriotism in the US mean they can't see themselves as being anti-military.
It's why they focus so much on "The Feds" as the enemy.
Well, that and some of them are ex-miitary. And they probably had an anti-government stance while enlisted and nobody really argued with them about it, instead just sitting there quietly hoping he'd shut up listening in rapt attention and undoubtedly agreeing to join him when the time comes...
Why would you think that in the military anyone would get more than a few words of anti-government rhetoric out before having someone tell them to shut up?
Choosing to live, die, and kill for a government when you're planning to overthrow it doesn't generally make much sense.
A more likely explanation of the vets supporting them is that they didn't find (crazy) politics until they were older. That, or they're stolen valor types.
Its probably a case of holier-then-thou while in the service and knowing to shut up if pressed on the specifics. Blatant patriotism is a good thing in most services and the "love america" part of these guys perfectly acceptable.
"I want to kill America's enemies whoever they may be(may include senior officers and elected officials)".
However I suspect most of Militia are on the stolen valor side. Its amazing how many ex-Navy Seals there are who decide that Sovereign Citizen movement is their jam.
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
Posts
It's kind of amazing to watch in action. It's like they've ingrained it into themselves so much that the only people that would disagree with them are Federal Agents and, I guess, us Big City folk who don't understand Real Americans, that they can't conceive of other Real Americans that wouldn't automatically support whatever they do. It's a pretty good doublethink going on there, calling themselves '3%ers' and the like while also assuming the majority of people have their back.
Also, apparently "LaVoy is watching":
Heh.
My Backloggery
Has any political candidate said anything about what's happening? That alone should be enough to tell them that the rest of the country doesn't support them.
They are cynical opportunists, though. If praising the occupiers would have generated a ton of support rather than an enormous backlash, then they would have done it.
They did this last time and got burnt.
Guys, I sense another donation drive in the works.
I vote for this:
With the general paranoia prevalent in this movement, you'd think they would have the decency to conduct their business on TOR networks or something. Fred the Fed's all over facebook, brothers.
I think it more likely that he does not understand that "Click" (shouldn't that be with a K?)= "Kilometer".
I'd guess he heard the word used in a movie, was able to deduce that it was a measurement of distance (but not what distance), and has been using it any time an unspecified distance is needed.
Of course, that's also the metric system, and no true blooded 'Murican patriot is gonna use that.
Or is it only now that he's been killed?
It’s not a very important country most of the time
http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
Nonono, you don't understand.
You see, they posted a status update that explicitly said that they DO NOT give the government permission to look at their facebook posts! It even mentioned several amendments to the Constitution! It's ironclad.
Martyrdom is a hell of a drug.
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
They're calling for 400 people and I'd be amazed if they got 40. Or 14. If they limited it to people tech-savvy enough to use TOR, they'd probably get two overweight IT guys and that's about it.
"My entire unit made a tactical retreat to regroup supply and carry out our legal orders from the Common Law Grand Jury of Harney and Grant Counties.
We are running various ops from a secure undisclosed location in a County with a Sheriff who supports us and the cause. Also the Commander of the National Guard of this State said he would roll out his tanks to cover our six if necessary.
They tried to to attack us and or arrest my unit but by the grace of divine Providence my entire team made it out alive , fully intact and operational.
The Constitutional Sheriff told his deputies that we are the good guys and that they are to have our six too while we are running our Constitutional Ops."
This is further down the Facebook page. I'm not sure they could even find two overweight IT guys, but hey, they might have some tanks to cover their six!
And/or there's no chance this isn't satire.
Is that what he was saying? He used the word "Cordon" so much I thought this was a new version of "Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo." "I need 400 men to cordon off the cordons with 100 men behind each cordon to cordon off the cordons about 4 clicks behind each cordon. Cordon."
My god. They're like the anthromorphized Dunning–Kruger effect.
That's what my brain interpreted it as.
What he's probably doing is channeling his inner Deputy US Marshal Sam Gerard and, as see317 suggests, using terminology that he doesn't fully understand. I mean, I don't even know what the terrain looks like. So I don't know how far away the roadblocks can see or what they would do to react to being surrounded by 100 armed belligerents from any distance.
I also don't see the strategic value of surrounding four roadblocks anyway.
The ultimate goal is probably to do something like to "peacefully" surround all of the law enforcement personnel with their own vehicles, preventing them from taking vehicles out of the circle. Meanwhile, someone drives a truck in to the ranch, picks up the brave men trapped inside, and rides off into the sunset. Trapped by the circle of well armed and entirely peaceful protesters, the senior LEOs jump on their hats and curse and call Obama to ask what they do now while the junior LEOs with tearful eyes quietly salute those brave souls.
Ironically, Ted cruz is the one politician who was asked about the occupation a couple of weeks back and answered back very clearly that the militia should disperse because what they were doing was illegal.
Broken clock I suppose, but what a way to break.
The true embodiment of the American Spirit
You might be surprised how often that actually happens in the military. They would regularly call out people for posting about their patrols on facebook or posting pictures from their base or their missions with the exif data still intact (FYI images you take with your phone, and many cameras, have a tag on them that states what relay towers they're nearby and the GPS location, if active, when you take it).
Hell, the first solid proof the international community had that the soldiers that took over Ukraine were, in fact, Russian was when a Russian soldier posted to his social media about going on patrol and the exif data was for Ukraine.
It's all so obvious now!
pleasepaypreacher.net
One conspiracy theory that's always amused me is the conspiracy that troops from the UN are going to come and take over the US. I wonder if they realize that these "UN" troops would pretty much have to be US troops wearing a different logo.
A big part of the gun obsession is the fantasy that they will one day use those guns to fight off a tyrannical government
But then they also convince themselves that the military will be on their side
Which would make their own guns unnecessary
Or oh noes the UN is invading
Guess who makes up the majority of UN forces, sport?
It's our own friggin military
The guys you think will be on your side
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
They just had slowly reloading rifles with those musket ball things. But then again, they also had slaves so who knows. Things were pretty fucked up back then.
I have to think there's a long list of things the Founding Fathers would be horrified about if they could see the modern world.
I'm sure that the firepower that a single person can carry would be on that list, but I can't imagine it would be at the top.
This is pretty much the defacto reason I take issue with people arguing how the founders wanted everyone to be armed; in the late 18th/early 19th century a rapid fire weapon was one which could be loaded and fired 7 times in a minute, and those suckers were wildly inacurate at a range greater then 80 feet.
But it's also wandering off topic from the oregon situation so...
Paiute to bundy: Tell us again about how hard done by you are, because really we'd like to know.
It's also because they see themselves as the real patriots and the strong connections between the military and patriotism in the US mean they can't see themselves as being anti-military.
It's why they focus so much on "The Feds" as the enemy.
Well, that and some of them are ex-miitary. And they probably had an anti-government stance while enlisted and nobody really argued with them about it, instead just sitting there quietly hoping he'd shut up listening in rapt attention and undoubtedly agreeing to join him when the time comes...
i think they genuinely believe they are somehow untouchable, that ultimately they are legally entitled somehow according to the constitution or whatever, so they arent bothering to hide their activities. Also maybe they somehow believe there is still going to be an event that galvanizes public support for them, and theyre trying to bring about that event?
Regardless of your opinions on guns in modern day America that is a pretty silly way to look at it - the people the founding fathers wanted American citizens to be armed against also have weapons that fire faster than 7 times a minute.
There were enough people at Finicum's funeral and at various support rallies that they might think that the entire country is rallying behind them instead of just a few hundred people.
It's like the internet echo chamber conversation from earlier, only in real life.
Why would you think that in the military anyone would get more than a few words of anti-government rhetoric out before having someone tell them to shut up?
Choosing to live, die, and kill for a government when you're planning to overthrow it doesn't generally make much sense.
A more likely explanation of the vets supporting them is that they didn't find (crazy) politics until they were older. That, or they're stolen valor types.
Its probably a case of holier-then-thou while in the service and knowing to shut up if pressed on the specifics. Blatant patriotism is a good thing in most services and the "love america" part of these guys perfectly acceptable.
"I want to kill America's enemies whoever they may be(may include senior officers and elected officials)".
However I suspect most of Militia are on the stolen valor side. Its amazing how many ex-Navy Seals there are who decide that Sovereign Citizen movement is their jam.