I'm not really going to get in another pissing contest over definitions of words and hyper critical nit picking about what is and is not the minutia to determine "consensus on the public's awareness of superman's mythos".
That's what we were doing moments ago and I was asking because I didn't know what you meant by that phrasing. I'm not nitpicking either, every thing I bought up was true. Your argument was that Superman isn't iconic, I showed evidence which disproved that theory.
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Mego Thor"I say thee...NAY!"Registered Userregular
I'm not really going to get in another pissing contest over definitions of words and hyper critical nit picking about what is and is not the minutia to determine "consensus on the public's awareness of superman's mythos".
That's what we were doing moments ago and I was asking because I didn't know what you meant by that phrasing. I'm not nitpicking either, every thing I bought up was true.
I never contested anything you were saying, just that he isn't as popular and isn't going to draw an orgasmic crowd to a movie like Chris Hemsworth who's already been in 3 movies can.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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Mego Thor"I say thee...NAY!"Registered Userregular
Farmer's agents all over Metropolis filling out claims.
I never contested anything you were saying, just that he isn't as popular and isn't going to draw an orgasmic crowd to a movie like Chris Hemsworth who's already been in 3 movies can.
I dunno, Cavill has quite a large crowd of fan girls himself.
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Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
"Now go out there and get me pictures, PICTURES OF BATMAN!"
I never contested anything you were saying, just that he isn't as popular and isn't going to draw an orgasmic crowd to a movie like Chris Hemsworth who's already been in 3 movies can.
I dunno, Cavill has quite a large crowd of fan girls himself.
He's my man crush.
But the established universe means something. Another origin story is kind of bland. But we needed it for BvS. I want to see if BvS can do Avenger's numbers. I think Batman has more pull, but the first time on the big screen for both of these guys? Oh man. This might be the thing that does it.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
I can't wrap my head around this. Superman is an icon permanently seared into public consciousness.
So is Micky Mouse. Doesn't necassrily translate to instant success. Is there even a Micky cartoon being made right now?
Like, Superman is absolutely more well known than Thor, but paradoxically that doesn't mean he's going to be more popular. Like, if you asked random people on the street, you would totally get more people recognizing Superman than Thor; but that doesn't mean those people who recognize him are going to go out and see a movie with him in it. Brand recognition is important, but it isn't the end-all, be-all of success.
I never contested anything you were saying, just that he isn't as popular and isn't going to draw an orgasmic crowd to a movie like Chris Hemsworth who's already been in 3 movies can.
I dunno, Cavill has quite a large crowd of fan girls himself.
He's my man crush.
But the established universe means something. Another origin story is kind of bland. But we needed it for BvS. I want to see if BvS can do Avenger's numbers. I think Batman has more pull, but the first time on the big screen for both of these guys? Oh man. This might be the thing that does it.
Oh yeah, it'll be huge. No argument there, whether it'll reach Avengers numbers...
It is sad that I will have lived in a time where Superman went from tie for #1 most recognizable hero to clear #2.
...gotta go read Action Comics #768 again...
Not to get all 'Morrisony' but I think it was the Death of Superman storyline that did it. People actually thought that Superman was dead and I think it was that which hurt Superman where it hurt the most. The public perception of him. To most people (ie, people who don't read comics), Superman died. And bringing him back (although he never left) just isn't the same, even if most people wouldn't put it that way. It was more like a sea change, not the death itself, but the effect it has on the public conciousness.
I think the average person has no idea Superman died in a comic book. Comic books and cartoons do not enter the average moviegoers knowledge. The only reason I knew he died was at some point I saw that Max Landis video about him complaining about it and I sure as hell didn't even watch that entire thing.
Most of the larger audience is going to have even less comic book knowledge than I have and I only have surface knowledge. I enjoy comic book movies because I like fantasy and scifi shows and novels.
I think the average person has no idea Superman died in a comic book. Comic books and cartoons do not enter the average moviegoers knowledge. The only reason I knew he died was at some point I saw that Max Landis video about him complaining about it and I sure as hell didn't even watch that entire thing.
Most of the larger audience is going to have even less comic book knowledge than I have and I only have surface knowledge. I enjoy comic book movies because I like fantasy and scifi shows and novels.
I like them because they're fun.
It's fun seeing superman zip around and flying and punching shit.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
But yes, Mickey's remained an icon, even though he was in very, very little of consequence after the theatrical shorts dried up in the early 60s. Superman's the same way. (Remained an icon, that is, and he's been in much more stuff than Mickey.)
But yes, Mickey's remained an icon, even though he was in very, very little of consequence after the theatrical shorts dried up in the early 60s. Superman's the same way.
Superman's dipped a bit, but he's hardly disappeared like Mickey has - even outside his films.
I think the average person has no idea Superman died in a comic book. Comic books and cartoons do not enter the average moviegoers knowledge. The only reason I knew he died was at some point I saw that Max Landis video about him complaining about it and I sure as hell didn't even watch that entire thing.
Most of the larger audience is going to have even less comic book knowledge than I have and I only have surface knowledge. I enjoy comic book movies because I like fantasy and scifi shows and novels.
Depends on who you think of as the average person. I recall the promotional campaign for The Death of Superman, since I was a teenager at the time. It was turned into a Big Deal, being covered by the major news outlets of the day. Pretty sure they went on about it for weeks. I've never bothered to read any Marvel/DC/anything else comics, I could still recognize comic book characters that didn't have their own movies/tv shows, and know the bigger highlights about them, just due to their presence in pop culture.
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Doctor DetroitNot a doctorTree townRegistered Userregular
I thought there was intel floating around that Gordon was dead by the time of BvS?
Death of superman was the first DC comics I ever bought because it was presented like one of these 4 dudes is going to end up with the REAL title of Superman.
I picked Eradicator.
I was the wrongest.
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
Death of superman was the first DC comics I ever bought because it was presented like one of these 4 dudes is going to end up with the REAL title of Superman.
I picked Eradicator.
I was the wrongest.
Could be worse, you could have chosen Cyborg Superman.
(That was me. I thought Cyborg Superman was fuckin' rad.)
I liked the Man of Steel guy. He was the only one who seemed like he could measure up to Superman morally.
I collected those for a bit during my comic book phase.
I read about the resolution later. That shit went wacky places.
Man superman is a Saiyan isn't even on the list of whacky shit comics have got up to. None of it makes any sense; they're like soap operas on American SuperDrugs.
If you want a rough litmus test on what is in the public consciousness... ask an elderly person.
If you show the pictures, they'll probably instantly get Superman, and not know who the hell Thor is.
If you just verbally ask them, they'll still probably get Superman. If you're lucky they'll probably get Thor, but only via the actual norse mythology. Which while technically correct, I think everyone would agree doesn't really count.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
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chiasaur11Never doubt a raccoon.Do you think it's trademarked?Registered Userregular
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I hope he demands the whole Gotham City PD get him pictures of Spider-Man.
They certainly do now.
That's what we were doing moments ago and I was asking because I didn't know what you meant by that phrasing. I'm not nitpicking either, every thing I bought up was true. Your argument was that Superman isn't iconic, I showed evidence which disproved that theory.
But is he a hero or a menace?
I never contested anything you were saying, just that he isn't as popular and isn't going to draw an orgasmic crowd to a movie like Chris Hemsworth who's already been in 3 movies can.
I dunno, Cavill has quite a large crowd of fan girls himself.
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He's my man crush.
But the established universe means something. Another origin story is kind of bland. But we needed it for BvS. I want to see if BvS can do Avenger's numbers. I think Batman has more pull, but the first time on the big screen for both of these guys? Oh man. This might be the thing that does it.
So is Micky Mouse. Doesn't necassrily translate to instant success. Is there even a Micky cartoon being made right now?
Like, Superman is absolutely more well known than Thor, but paradoxically that doesn't mean he's going to be more popular. Like, if you asked random people on the street, you would totally get more people recognizing Superman than Thor; but that doesn't mean those people who recognize him are going to go out and see a movie with him in it. Brand recognition is important, but it isn't the end-all, be-all of success.
Oh yeah, it'll be huge. No argument there, whether it'll reach Avengers numbers...
Most of the larger audience is going to have even less comic book knowledge than I have and I only have surface knowledge. I enjoy comic book movies because I like fantasy and scifi shows and novels.
I like them because they're fun.
It's fun seeing superman zip around and flying and punching shit.
There are, and they're freaking awesome. Very well-watched on YouTube, to boot.
But yes, Mickey's remained an icon, even though he was in very, very little of consequence after the theatrical shorts dried up in the early 60s. Superman's the same way. (Remained an icon, that is, and he's been in much more stuff than Mickey.)
Superman's dipped a bit, but he's hardly disappeared like Mickey has - even outside his films.
Depends on who you think of as the average person. I recall the promotional campaign for The Death of Superman, since I was a teenager at the time. It was turned into a Big Deal, being covered by the major news outlets of the day. Pretty sure they went on about it for weeks. I've never bothered to read any Marvel/DC/anything else comics, I could still recognize comic book characters that didn't have their own movies/tv shows, and know the bigger highlights about them, just due to their presence in pop culture.
I picked Eradicator.
I was the wrongest.
it got better!
edit; also Gordon died twice in the Nolan movies. He has a knack for coming back.
Could be worse, you could have chosen Cyborg Superman.
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Plus Tom Grummett had the best pencils of everyone from that era of Superbooks
I think people here who are underselling it are simply too young to recall it accurately.
I only bought Marvel comics at the time but the Death of Superman? I still have my copy in a mylar bag somewhere.
I liked the Man of Steel guy. He was the only one who seemed like he could measure up to Superman morally.
I collected those for a bit during my comic book phase.
I read about the resolution later. That shit went wacky places.
Man superman is a Saiyan isn't even on the list of whacky shit comics have got up to. None of it makes any sense; they're like soap operas on American SuperDrugs.
Two amazing characters that no longer exist in the form I know in the DC Universe because of the New 52. :evil:
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You'll always have Young Justice and the Timm-verse.
If you show the pictures, they'll probably instantly get Superman, and not know who the hell Thor is.
If you just verbally ask them, they'll still probably get Superman. If you're lucky they'll probably get Thor, but only via the actual norse mythology. Which while technically correct, I think everyone would agree doesn't really count.
I found a leak of the last scene of Dawn of Justice. Gotta say, it's pretty interesting.
Why I fear the ocean.
Don't forget this cinematic masterpiece.