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GOP Primary: Mass Hysteria

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Posts

  • ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
    We supported Cruz’s campaign in 2012 because we saw in him what conservatives nationwide have come to see as well. Cruz is a brilliant and articulate exponent of our views on the full spectrum of issues.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/432682/ted-cruz-national-review-endorses-texas-senator-president

    smCQ5WE.jpg
  • SmurphSmurph Registered User regular
    The GOP as we know it is already dead. If Trump does not get the nomination, his base will turn on the party in an independent run or new political party. If he gets the nomination and loses the general, his base will blame the party leadership for not supporting him enough, so good luck getting them to support an establishment candidate in any future election. A good portion will still probably leave for the Trump Party. If he wins the presidency, the GOP is now the Trump party and will probably lose a good number of supporters that don't want to be associated with that.

  • OneAngryPossumOneAngryPossum Registered User regular
    edited March 2016
    moniker wrote: »
    Zython wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    On the one hand, we know Cruz is going to be wall-to-wall awful, and the possibility exists for Trump to not be awful because we honestly don't know what he'll do about a lot of things

    On the other hand, pure distilled authoritarianism

    Look at how Trump has been reacting to comments about his hands being small. Or his many letters and statements and such about international politics. We know how Trump will act as the architect of US foreign policy and it will be more terrifying then anything Cruz could get up to.

    Honestly, I'm not seeing what Trump could do that would be much worse than business as usual. Murdering civilians? War crimes? Torture? That's already happening. What I'm worried about is what's going to happen domestically.

    Not saying Trump's foreign policy will be good (Ha! Far from it). Just that it's probably the least of my worries about him.

    Torture hasn't been happening since January 20, 2009. And while drone strikes are undoubtedly killing civilians, look up the we did/supported under Reagan.

    I don't disagree with you on considering the relative scales of harm brought about by US foreign policy, but this statement isn't entirely true. We probably don't have US personnel engaging in water boarding any more, but many, many techniques that most would qualify as torture are ongoing. This is without getting into the murkier area of transferring detainees to countries with even less restrictive policies on interrogation, a practice that is much harder to properly monitor.

    Edit: To avoid tangent-ing too hard, I believe US foreign policy is going to be inevitably immoral for the foreseeable future. That said, a Trump-defined foreign policy will almost undoubtedly see the blatant abuses of the Bush administration fade into history as a minor dalliance with the devil versus the full-on tango we'd likely be living in.

    OneAngryPossum on
  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    Brolo wrote: »
    Astaereth wrote: »
    Brolo wrote: »

    @Brolo or somebody, what was this? It's gone or blocked.

    It was a clip from this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgZU6pGKgRk

    This same pastor went on to introduce Ted Cruz at this convention.

    And this is why Trump scares me less than Cruz.

    Because he's less likely than Cruz to tattoo numbers and a pink triangle on my arm.

    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    .
    Nobeard wrote: »
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    Atomika wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    So Trump is backing up about a hundred years in terms of rhetoric, repeating the old Gospel of Wealth lines about how the rich are better people because if you're poor its your own fault, and yet people still like him because they feel like he's a breath of fresh air?

    The cognitive dissonance of it all...

    I'm at the point right now where I simply cannot understand what the massive appeal is anymore.

    Appeal to burning it all down? I guess?

    Trump makes a lot more sense when you realize that many conservatives are very, very stupid.

    My gut reaction is to agree with you, but I'm trying to look at things from a different perspective. One paradox I see again and again is that sometimes seemingly intelligent people, people who excel in STEM fields like medicine for example, are staunchly conservative and will vote for the most transparently incompetent/evil people. I don't want to dismiss people as stupid when they just think differently.


    I 100% blame the internet. It allows anyone and anything to look like legitimate sources, and fact is no longer a thing. Like I can find a large section of the internet that agrees with any stance I'd like to take and then via bias ignore all other sources that disagree with the stance I've taken.

    Like I've had reasonably intelligent people try to tell me that the entire medical profession, all properly trained doctors, are working from a set of lies. That medical doctors are completely incompetent of what they are talking about, and that homeopathic doctors are the ones that know what they are doing. They had all kinds of Internet articles and sources to throw at me, that look and sound very legitimate. Heck I could even get taken in by some of what they were peddling. The internet allows the legitimizing of any stance no matter how thin it's reasoning out factual basis, and can allow folks to "do their own research" through a stack of pure bullshit that agrees with their already existing biases.

    For instance the Trump appeal comes from the pure bullshit that the right wing media machines have been churning out for over a decade. If you look at what he is peddling a lot of it is based on the hyperbole and lies and faulty reasoning and economic principles coming from the right wing media machine for years (like insisting that welfare spending is the problem when welfare spending is like one of the smallest sectors of government spending there is). Even better the right wing media machine hasn't been engaging their opposition in any meaningful or reasoned manner for decades. The information their opponents are giving out isn't wrong because the info is wrong and here's the refutation of that info the info is wrong because the opposition is the one delivering it.

  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    Nobeard wrote: »
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    Atomika wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    So Trump is backing up about a hundred years in terms of rhetoric, repeating the old Gospel of Wealth lines about how the rich are better people because if you're poor its your own fault, and yet people still like him because they feel like he's a breath of fresh air?

    The cognitive dissonance of it all...

    I'm at the point right now where I simply cannot understand what the massive appeal is anymore.

    Appeal to burning it all down? I guess?

    Trump makes a lot more sense when you realize that many conservatives are very, very stupid.

    My gut reaction is to agree with you, but I'm trying to look at things from a different perspective. One paradox I see again and again is that sometimes seemingly intelligent people, people who excel in STEM fields like medicine for example, are staunchly conservative and will vote for the most transparently incompetent/evil people. I don't want to dismiss people as stupid when they just think differently.

    People who are in STEM fields earn a lot of money, comparatively speaking

    Also this.

  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    Brolo wrote: »
    Astaereth wrote: »
    Brolo wrote: »

    @Brolo or somebody, what was this? It's gone or blocked.

    It was a clip from this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgZU6pGKgRk

    This same pastor went on to introduce Ted Cruz at this convention.

    And this is why Trump scares me less than Cruz.

    Because he's less likely than Cruz to tattoo numbers and a pink triangle on my arm.

    Maybe marginally

    We are arguing over whether we would rather listen to nothing but Call Me Maybe for 4 years or get an eye gouged out with a red-hot poker

    "Will I receive immediate medical attention?"

    "Yes, an ambulance is standing by with an excellent EMT."

    "...Do I get a cool eyepatch?"

    "No."

    ".............Fuck, give me the poker."

  • AbacusAbacus Registered User regular
    edited March 2016
    So, let's see some fireworks at NR:
    Dr. Carson’s Disgrace

    Dr. Ben Carson has just made a hypocrite of himself and done great damage to the country by endorsing the moral monster, Donald Trump.

    Carson has spent an entire campaign pleading for honor and decency and decorum, only to endorse a man who is the crassest, most vulgar, most deceitful person in the race — a man who has repeatedly attacked in the most vicious ways, and lied about, every other candidate in the race. Trump is a man who has repeatedly incited violence at his rallies, saying that protesters should be punched out and carried away on a stretcher, and promising to pay the legal bills of those who throw the punches.

    And now, Trump is flat-out lying in denying the well-documented, audio-taped roughing up of a (female) reporter by Trump’s wannebe thug of a campaign manager.

    Carson has talked about the need for a president to understand poverty, yet has endorsed a multi-million dollar inheritor who has spent his entire career leaving others impoverished by walking out on his debts, but refusing to pay full bills, and by trying to use to power of the state to seize their land. Worse, Carson is endorsing a man who has mocked his religion and who quite literally likened him to a child molester.

    In doing so, Dr. Carson has disgraced himself.
    Gonna go in a wild and say that pulling the knives on Carson like a jilted lover isn't going to do any favors to Cruz or the GOPe.

    Abacus on
  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    Good. Now Carson can slink back into complete obscurity, emerging only for "remember when that nutjob ran" conversations.

    And his inevitable book tour.

  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    edited March 2016
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    Brolo wrote: »
    Astaereth wrote: »
    Brolo wrote: »

    @Brolo or somebody, what was this? It's gone or blocked.

    It was a clip from this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgZU6pGKgRk

    This same pastor went on to introduce Ted Cruz at this convention.

    And this is why Trump scares me less than Cruz.

    Because he's less likely than Cruz to tattoo numbers and a pink triangle on my arm.

    Yeah he'd just tattoo numbers and a crescent moon on Muslim's arms (like he's already suggested as much at some point, that we need some way of identifying Muslims).

    Not saying Cruz isn't worse, Cruz still wins my most terrifying award. Because a central portion of his religious stance is that we are already in the end times.

    I'm also not trying to say a personal fear of someone that will directly affect you is wrong either.

    I'm saying let's not just put the serial numbers on just one of these two truly shitty candidates.

    Sleep on
  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    Brolo wrote: »
    Astaereth wrote: »
    Brolo wrote: »

    @Brolo or somebody, what was this? It's gone or blocked.

    It was a clip from this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgZU6pGKgRk

    This same pastor went on to introduce Ted Cruz at this convention.

    And this is why Trump scares me less than Cruz.

    Because he's less likely than Cruz to tattoo numbers and a pink triangle on my arm.

    Maybe marginally

    We are arguing over whether we would rather listen to nothing but Call Me Maybe for 4 years or get an eye gouged out with a red-hot poker

    "Will I receive immediate medical attention?"

    "Yes, an ambulance is standing by with an excellent EMT."

    "...Do I get a cool eyepatch?"

    "No."

    ".............Fuck, give me the poker."

    Yeah that's a cute metaphor except in this metaphor, that eye you are poking out is ME.

    Again, that's the guy who just introduced Ted Cruz, the man who wants to be the President, saying he refuses to be ashamed of wanting ME dead if I don't repent.

    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    So, let's see some fireworks at NR:
    Dr. Carson’s Disgrace

    Dr. Ben Carson has just made a hypocrite of himself and done great damage to the country by endorsing the moral monster, Donald Trump.

    Carson has spent an entire campaign pleading for honor and decency and decorum, only to endorse a man who is the crassest, most vulgar, most deceitful person in the race — a man who has repeatedly attacked in the most vicious ways, and lied about, every other candidate in the race. Trump is a man who has repeatedly incited violence at his rallies, saying that protesters should be punched out and carried away on a stretcher, and promising to pay the legal bills of those who throw the punches.

    And now, Trump is flat-out lying in denying the well-documented, audio-taped roughing up of a (female) reporter by Trump’s wannebe thug of a campaign manager.

    Carson has talked about the need for a president to understand poverty, yet has endorsed a multi-million dollar inheritor who has spent his entire career leaving others impoverished by walking out on his debts, but refusing to pay full bills, and by trying to use to power of the state to seize their land. Worse, Carson is endorsing a man who has mocked his religion and who quite literally likened him to a child molester.

    In doing so, Dr. Carson has disgraced himself.
    Gonna go in a wild and say that pulling the knives on Carson like a jilted lover isn't going to do any favors to Cruz or the GOPe.

    As fun as it is to laugh at The National Review, it has nothing on David Brooks' meltdown over Trump. I think the man is genuinely having a breakdown. His columns have become screeds, he's stopped doing the cutesy politico analysis with Gail Collins, and he actually looked a bit disheveled and off-balance the last time I saw him on TV.

    Which is all awesome. I have always hated that smug fucker's "conservative a liberal could love" shtick. It's nice to know that Trump is pretty much destroying his credibility on the right and left.

  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    Brolo wrote: »
    Astaereth wrote: »
    Brolo wrote: »

    @Brolo or somebody, what was this? It's gone or blocked.

    It was a clip from this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgZU6pGKgRk

    This same pastor went on to introduce Ted Cruz at this convention.

    And this is why Trump scares me less than Cruz.

    Because he's less likely than Cruz to tattoo numbers and a pink triangle on my arm.

    Maybe marginally

    We are arguing over whether we would rather listen to nothing but Call Me Maybe for 4 years or get an eye gouged out with a red-hot poker

    "Will I receive immediate medical attention?"

    "Yes, an ambulance is standing by with an excellent EMT."

    "...Do I get a cool eyepatch?"

    "No."

    ".............Fuck, give me the poker."

    Yeah that's a cute metaphor except in this metaphor, that eye you are poking out is ME.

    Again, that's the guy who just introduced Ted Cruz, the man who wants to be the President, saying he refuses to be ashamed of wanting ME dead if I don't repent.

    And the other one would probably not care a lot but do really shitty things to you because the people who are voting for him are loudly telling him to

    So

    What's the difference, in the end?

  • madparrotmadparrot Registered User regular
    MrTLicious wrote: »
    Super old news but I just heard it: There was a This American Life a while back where one of the stories is about a gay man who was adopted by a an evangelical household and is Trump supporter because he supports gay marriage (the parents are Cruz supporters in part because he doesn't). It then gets into his reaction when Trump denounces Obergefell. It's simultaneously heartbreaking and enlightening.

    http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/580/thats-one-way-to-do-it

    TLDL version:
    This fellow is a black gay Trump supporter raised in an extremely conservative household. Both his adoptive parents are diehard Cruz fans, who when they found out their son is gay alternated between crying, praying and saying 'we absolutely love him', but his surprisingly fierce grasp on his identity (for an 18 year old) led him to refuse any attempt to 'cure' him of his gayness. He stated several times for the record that his overwhelming main reason for his support of Trump was that he supported gay marriage. He also likes Trump for some of his other policy positions, at one point expressing a veiled dose of FYIGM, but he explicitly finds Trump's gay marriage support to be the deciding factor because none of the other candidates are anything but hostile to gays. When asked if he could ever maybe you know vote gay-friendly Democrat, he literally laughs as if this was the craziest idea in the universe and says "Of course not." Then, at the end of the piece, he is told that Trump just came out against gay rights, declaring that he would seek to overturn Obergfell v. Hodges. His reaction?

    All of a sudden, he finds Trump appeals to him over a broad range of ideas, and gay rights isn't really that important.

  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    Brolo wrote: »
    Astaereth wrote: »
    Brolo wrote: »

    @Brolo or somebody, what was this? It's gone or blocked.

    It was a clip from this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgZU6pGKgRk

    This same pastor went on to introduce Ted Cruz at this convention.

    And this is why Trump scares me less than Cruz.

    Because he's less likely than Cruz to tattoo numbers and a pink triangle on my arm.

    Maybe marginally

    We are arguing over whether we would rather listen to nothing but Call Me Maybe for 4 years or get an eye gouged out with a red-hot poker

    "Will I receive immediate medical attention?"

    "Yes, an ambulance is standing by with an excellent EMT."

    "...Do I get a cool eyepatch?"

    "No."

    ".............Fuck, give me the poker."

    Yeah that's a cute metaphor except in this metaphor, that eye you are poking out is ME.

    Again, that's the guy who just introduced Ted Cruz, the man who wants to be the President, saying he refuses to be ashamed of wanting ME dead if I don't repent.

    And the other one would probably not care a lot but do really shitty things to you because the people who are voting for him are loudly telling him to

    So

    What's the difference, in the end?

    The difference is in one of these scenarios, I am far more likely to be dead.

    I am unsure what exactly is difficult to grasp here.

    Also, for related reasons, I am leaving the thread for a while, before I get myself in trouble.

    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    Brolo wrote: »
    Astaereth wrote: »
    Brolo wrote: »

    @Brolo or somebody, what was this? It's gone or blocked.

    It was a clip from this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgZU6pGKgRk

    This same pastor went on to introduce Ted Cruz at this convention.

    And this is why Trump scares me less than Cruz.

    Because he's less likely than Cruz to tattoo numbers and a pink triangle on my arm.

    Maybe marginally

    We are arguing over whether we would rather listen to nothing but Call Me Maybe for 4 years or get an eye gouged out with a red-hot poker

    "Will I receive immediate medical attention?"

    "Yes, an ambulance is standing by with an excellent EMT."

    "...Do I get a cool eyepatch?"

    "No."

    ".............Fuck, give me the poker."

    Yeah that's a cute metaphor except in this metaphor, that eye you are poking out is ME.

    Again, that's the guy who just introduced Ted Cruz, the man who wants to be the President, saying he refuses to be ashamed of wanting ME dead if I don't repent.

    And the other one would probably not care a lot but do really shitty things to you because the people who are voting for him are loudly telling him to

    So

    What's the difference, in the end?

    The difference is in one of these scenarios, I am far more likely to be dead.

    I am unsure what exactly is difficult to grasp here.

    Also, for related reasons, I am leaving the thread for a while, before I get myself in trouble.

    I'm not trying to be callous, or say either one of them would be good for you?

    I'm just saying that there's no reason to trust that Trump would be any better for you than Cruz would.

    Sorry if I offended you.

  • MancingtomMancingtom Registered User regular
    edited March 2016
    Nobeard wrote: »
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    Atomika wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    So Trump is backing up about a hundred years in terms of rhetoric, repeating the old Gospel of Wealth lines about how the rich are better people because if you're poor its your own fault, and yet people still like him because they feel like he's a breath of fresh air?

    The cognitive dissonance of it all...

    I'm at the point right now where I simply cannot understand what the massive appeal is anymore.

    Appeal to burning it all down? I guess?

    Trump makes a lot more sense when you realize that many conservatives are very, very stupid.

    My gut reaction is to agree with you, but I'm trying to look at things from a different perspective. One paradox I see again and again is that sometimes seemingly intelligent people, people who excel in STEM fields like medicine for example, are staunchly conservative and will vote for the most transparently incompetent/evil people. I don't want to dismiss people as stupid when they just think differently.

    Thinking differently is commendable, and necessary. That isn't what's happening here. When you look at the bastard offspring of an Oompa Loompa and Voldemort and think, "I want to give that man control of nuclear weapons," you're just an idiot.

    If someone thought that the best way to clean plates was to set them on fire in the sink, that person would be a moron. Not all opinions are created equal. American political discourse would be stronger if we didn't have this weird reflex to put the opinions of Neil de Grasse Tyson and Cousin Cleetus on the same level.

    Mancingtom on
  • MilskiMilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    Brolo wrote: »
    Astaereth wrote: »
    Brolo wrote: »

    @Brolo or somebody, what was this? It's gone or blocked.

    It was a clip from this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgZU6pGKgRk

    This same pastor went on to introduce Ted Cruz at this convention.

    And this is why Trump scares me less than Cruz.

    Because he's less likely than Cruz to tattoo numbers and a pink triangle on my arm.

    Maybe marginally

    We are arguing over whether we would rather listen to nothing but Call Me Maybe for 4 years or get an eye gouged out with a red-hot poker

    "Will I receive immediate medical attention?"

    "Yes, an ambulance is standing by with an excellent EMT."

    "...Do I get a cool eyepatch?"

    "No."

    ".............Fuck, give me the poker."

    Carly Rae Jepsen, unlike Ted Cruz, is both an American and Canadian National treasure. And her new album Emotion is an amazing pop album, probably the best I heard in 2015.

    I ate an engineer
  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    Nobeard wrote: »
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    Atomika wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    So Trump is backing up about a hundred years in terms of rhetoric, repeating the old Gospel of Wealth lines about how the rich are better people because if you're poor its your own fault, and yet people still like him because they feel like he's a breath of fresh air?

    The cognitive dissonance of it all...

    I'm at the point right now where I simply cannot understand what the massive appeal is anymore.

    Appeal to burning it all down? I guess?

    Trump makes a lot more sense when you realize that many conservatives are very, very stupid.

    My gut reaction is to agree with you, but I'm trying to look at things from a different perspective. One paradox I see again and again is that sometimes seemingly intelligent people, people who excel in STEM fields like medicine for example, are staunchly conservative and will vote for the most transparently incompetent/evil people. I don't want to dismiss people as stupid when they just think differently.

    Thinking differently is commendable, and necessary. That isn't what's happening here. When you look at the bastard offspring of an Oopa Loompa and Voldemort and think, "I want to give that man control of nuclear weapons," you're just an idiot.

    If someone thought that the best way to clean plates was to set them on fire in the sink, that person would be a moron. Not all opinions are created equal. American political discourse would be stronger if we didn't have this weird reflex to put the opinions of Neil de Grasse Tyson and Cousin Cleetus on the same level.

    Technical training is not a substitute for a broad general education. The United States has blindly wandered into the 20th century debate between Western democracy and fascism and socialism regarding education, and not on the good side.

    The mid-20th century Western democracies believed in providing citizens with a broad education in the arts, sciences and civics because that made for better citizens. The totalitarian regimes believed in narrow technical education, leaving government education to the political party and cultural education to the home (and church in the religious autocratic states).

  • AbacusAbacus Registered User regular


    There's a lot of people (like Shaun King) saying that NOW Carson is dead to them. Where the hell they were in these long months?

  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    milski wrote: »
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    Brolo wrote: »
    Astaereth wrote: »
    Brolo wrote: »

    @Brolo or somebody, what was this? It's gone or blocked.

    It was a clip from this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgZU6pGKgRk

    This same pastor went on to introduce Ted Cruz at this convention.

    And this is why Trump scares me less than Cruz.

    Because he's less likely than Cruz to tattoo numbers and a pink triangle on my arm.

    Maybe marginally

    We are arguing over whether we would rather listen to nothing but Call Me Maybe for 4 years or get an eye gouged out with a red-hot poker

    "Will I receive immediate medical attention?"

    "Yes, an ambulance is standing by with an excellent EMT."

    "...Do I get a cool eyepatch?"

    "No."

    ".............Fuck, give me the poker."

    Carly Rae Jepsen, unlike Ted Cruz, is both an American and Canadian National treasure. And her new album Emotion is an amazing pop album, probably the best I heard in 2015.

    Carly Rae Jepsen '16

  • KetBraKetBra Dressed Ridiculously Registered User regular
    milski wrote: »
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    Brolo wrote: »
    Astaereth wrote: »
    Brolo wrote: »

    @Brolo or somebody, what was this? It's gone or blocked.

    It was a clip from this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgZU6pGKgRk

    This same pastor went on to introduce Ted Cruz at this convention.

    And this is why Trump scares me less than Cruz.

    Because he's less likely than Cruz to tattoo numbers and a pink triangle on my arm.

    Maybe marginally

    We are arguing over whether we would rather listen to nothing but Call Me Maybe for 4 years or get an eye gouged out with a red-hot poker

    "Will I receive immediate medical attention?"

    "Yes, an ambulance is standing by with an excellent EMT."

    "...Do I get a cool eyepatch?"

    "No."

    ".............Fuck, give me the poker."

    Carly Rae Jepsen, unlike Ted Cruz, is both an American and Canadian National treasure. And her new album Emotion is an amazing pop album, probably the best I heard in 2015.

    Are you secretly Griffin McElroy?

    KGMvDLc.jpg?1
  • TheCanManTheCanMan GT: Gasman122009 JerseyRegistered User regular
    Sleep wrote: »
    .
    Nobeard wrote: »
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    Atomika wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    So Trump is backing up about a hundred years in terms of rhetoric, repeating the old Gospel of Wealth lines about how the rich are better people because if you're poor its your own fault, and yet people still like him because they feel like he's a breath of fresh air?

    The cognitive dissonance of it all...

    I'm at the point right now where I simply cannot understand what the massive appeal is anymore.

    Appeal to burning it all down? I guess?

    Trump makes a lot more sense when you realize that many conservatives are very, very stupid.

    My gut reaction is to agree with you, but I'm trying to look at things from a different perspective. One paradox I see again and again is that sometimes seemingly intelligent people, people who excel in STEM fields like medicine for example, are staunchly conservative and will vote for the most transparently incompetent/evil people. I don't want to dismiss people as stupid when they just think differently.


    I 100% blame the internet. It allows anyone and anything to look like legitimate sources, and fact is no longer a thing. Like I can find a large section of the internet that agrees with any stance I'd like to take and then via bias ignore all other sources that disagree with the stance I've taken.

    Like I've had reasonably intelligent people try to tell me that the entire medical profession, all properly trained doctors, are working from a set of lies. That medical doctors are completely incompetent of what they are talking about, and that homeopathic doctors are the ones that know what they are doing. They had all kinds of Internet articles and sources to throw at me, that look and sound very legitimate. Heck I could even get taken in by some of what they were peddling. The internet allows the legitimizing of any stance no matter how thin it's reasoning out factual basis, and can allow folks to "do their own research" through a stack of pure bullshit that agrees with their already existing biases.

    For instance the Trump appeal comes from the pure bullshit that the right wing media machines have been churning out for over a decade. If you look at what he is peddling a lot of it is based on the hyperbole and lies and faulty reasoning and economic principles coming from the right wing media machine for years (like insisting that welfare spending is the problem when welfare spending is like one of the smallest sectors of government spending there is). Even better the right wing media machine hasn't been engaging their opposition in any meaningful or reasoned manner for decades. The information their opponents are giving out isn't wrong because the info is wrong and here's the refutation of that info the info is wrong because the opposition is the one delivering it.

    I don't remember the source where I read it, but I remember reading the climate change deniers were just as likely to be well educated in science than not. The theory for this was that people who are well educated in a STEM field are very capable of doing their own research and if they start from a bias towards denial they are more than capable of finding relatively not-crazy-sounding sources to convince themselves that the science backs them up.

  • MilskiMilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    KetBra wrote: »
    milski wrote: »
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    Brolo wrote: »
    Astaereth wrote: »
    Brolo wrote: »

    @Brolo or somebody, what was this? It's gone or blocked.

    It was a clip from this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgZU6pGKgRk

    This same pastor went on to introduce Ted Cruz at this convention.

    And this is why Trump scares me less than Cruz.

    Because he's less likely than Cruz to tattoo numbers and a pink triangle on my arm.

    Maybe marginally

    We are arguing over whether we would rather listen to nothing but Call Me Maybe for 4 years or get an eye gouged out with a red-hot poker

    "Will I receive immediate medical attention?"

    "Yes, an ambulance is standing by with an excellent EMT."

    "...Do I get a cool eyepatch?"

    "No."

    ".............Fuck, give me the poker."

    Carly Rae Jepsen, unlike Ted Cruz, is both an American and Canadian National treasure. And her new album Emotion is an amazing pop album, probably the best I heard in 2015.

    Are you secretly Griffin McElroy?

    Her new album is actually good. I feel like Cassandra here. I speak the truth and you refuse to listen.

    I ate an engineer
  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    TheCanMan wrote: »
    Sleep wrote: »
    .
    Nobeard wrote: »
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    Atomika wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    So Trump is backing up about a hundred years in terms of rhetoric, repeating the old Gospel of Wealth lines about how the rich are better people because if you're poor its your own fault, and yet people still like him because they feel like he's a breath of fresh air?

    The cognitive dissonance of it all...

    I'm at the point right now where I simply cannot understand what the massive appeal is anymore.

    Appeal to burning it all down? I guess?

    Trump makes a lot more sense when you realize that many conservatives are very, very stupid.

    My gut reaction is to agree with you, but I'm trying to look at things from a different perspective. One paradox I see again and again is that sometimes seemingly intelligent people, people who excel in STEM fields like medicine for example, are staunchly conservative and will vote for the most transparently incompetent/evil people. I don't want to dismiss people as stupid when they just think differently.


    I 100% blame the internet. It allows anyone and anything to look like legitimate sources, and fact is no longer a thing. Like I can find a large section of the internet that agrees with any stance I'd like to take and then via bias ignore all other sources that disagree with the stance I've taken.

    Like I've had reasonably intelligent people try to tell me that the entire medical profession, all properly trained doctors, are working from a set of lies. That medical doctors are completely incompetent of what they are talking about, and that homeopathic doctors are the ones that know what they are doing. They had all kinds of Internet articles and sources to throw at me, that look and sound very legitimate. Heck I could even get taken in by some of what they were peddling. The internet allows the legitimizing of any stance no matter how thin it's reasoning out factual basis, and can allow folks to "do their own research" through a stack of pure bullshit that agrees with their already existing biases.

    For instance the Trump appeal comes from the pure bullshit that the right wing media machines have been churning out for over a decade. If you look at what he is peddling a lot of it is based on the hyperbole and lies and faulty reasoning and economic principles coming from the right wing media machine for years (like insisting that welfare spending is the problem when welfare spending is like one of the smallest sectors of government spending there is). Even better the right wing media machine hasn't been engaging their opposition in any meaningful or reasoned manner for decades. The information their opponents are giving out isn't wrong because the info is wrong and here's the refutation of that info the info is wrong because the opposition is the one delivering it.

    I don't remember the source where I read it, but I remember reading the climate change deniers were just as likely to be well educated in science than not. The theory for this was that people who are well educated in a STEM field are very capable of doing their own research and if they start from a bias towards denial they are more than capable of finding relatively not-crazy-sounding sources to convince themselves that the science backs them up.

    Happens with a lot of fields. Nothing quite as insufferable as the "I'm using Logic and Reason and Science and therefore opposing me is wrong" types.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    On the one hand, we know Cruz is going to be wall-to-wall awful, and the possibility exists for Trump to not be awful because we honestly don't know what he'll do about a lot of things

    On the other hand, pure distilled authoritarianism

    Look at how Trump has been reacting to comments about his hands being small. Or his many letters and statements and such about international politics. We know how Trump will act as the architect of US foreign policy and it will be more terrifying then anything Cruz could get up to.

    That's the discussion, isn't? Trump is an entretainer, so we can't be 100% sure of what he's going to do, besides some basis like "be less friendly to Israel, tell the Saudis, Mexico and China to piss off, cozing up to Russia and the less EU-friendly countries". But you can see what Cruz will do, which is a theocracy.

    So, is the mostly unknown vs. the certainly awful.

    But he's not unknown. That's my point. He's thin-skinned, reactionary, holds a grudge and is, from rhetoric, willing to use violence against people he dislikes to get his way and believes in using strength to force allies to do what he wants.

    He's the kind of guy who would start a war over a perceived insult.

    Zython wrote: »
    Honestly, I'm not seeing what Trump could do that would be much worse than business as usual. Murdering civilians? War crimes? Torture? That's already happening. What I'm worried about is what's going to happen domestically.

    Not saying Trump's foreign policy will be good (Ha! Far from it). Just that it's probably the least of my worries about him.

    Uh, alot. Obama is nowhere near as bad as GWB and Trump is far worse then GWB in that at least GWB wasn't stupid or strongman or thin-skinned enough to, say, start a war with Russia. Trump is totally that kind of person.

  • SticksSticks I'd rather be in bed.Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    TheCanMan wrote: »
    Sleep wrote: »
    .
    Nobeard wrote: »
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    Atomika wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    So Trump is backing up about a hundred years in terms of rhetoric, repeating the old Gospel of Wealth lines about how the rich are better people because if you're poor its your own fault, and yet people still like him because they feel like he's a breath of fresh air?

    The cognitive dissonance of it all...

    I'm at the point right now where I simply cannot understand what the massive appeal is anymore.

    Appeal to burning it all down? I guess?

    Trump makes a lot more sense when you realize that many conservatives are very, very stupid.

    My gut reaction is to agree with you, but I'm trying to look at things from a different perspective. One paradox I see again and again is that sometimes seemingly intelligent people, people who excel in STEM fields like medicine for example, are staunchly conservative and will vote for the most transparently incompetent/evil people. I don't want to dismiss people as stupid when they just think differently.


    I 100% blame the internet. It allows anyone and anything to look like legitimate sources, and fact is no longer a thing. Like I can find a large section of the internet that agrees with any stance I'd like to take and then via bias ignore all other sources that disagree with the stance I've taken.

    Like I've had reasonably intelligent people try to tell me that the entire medical profession, all properly trained doctors, are working from a set of lies. That medical doctors are completely incompetent of what they are talking about, and that homeopathic doctors are the ones that know what they are doing. They had all kinds of Internet articles and sources to throw at me, that look and sound very legitimate. Heck I could even get taken in by some of what they were peddling. The internet allows the legitimizing of any stance no matter how thin it's reasoning out factual basis, and can allow folks to "do their own research" through a stack of pure bullshit that agrees with their already existing biases.

    For instance the Trump appeal comes from the pure bullshit that the right wing media machines have been churning out for over a decade. If you look at what he is peddling a lot of it is based on the hyperbole and lies and faulty reasoning and economic principles coming from the right wing media machine for years (like insisting that welfare spending is the problem when welfare spending is like one of the smallest sectors of government spending there is). Even better the right wing media machine hasn't been engaging their opposition in any meaningful or reasoned manner for decades. The information their opponents are giving out isn't wrong because the info is wrong and here's the refutation of that info the info is wrong because the opposition is the one delivering it.

    I don't remember the source where I read it, but I remember reading the climate change deniers were just as likely to be well educated in science than not. The theory for this was that people who are well educated in a STEM field are very capable of doing their own research and if they start from a bias towards denial they are more than capable of finding relatively not-crazy-sounding sources to convince themselves that the science backs them up.

    Happens with a lot of fields. Nothing quite as insufferable as the "I'm using Logic and Reason and Science and therefore opposing me is wrong" types.

    Yes, but in this case it's ok because I'M RIGHT.

    But yea, research has shown that the more educated you are on a particular topic, the harder it is to correct any deeply help opinions you might have on that topic resulting from misinformation or confirmation biases. Your brain has a lot more ammunition to use in the defense of its beliefs than does someone who is relatively ignorant of the subject.

  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    Atomika wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    So Trump is backing up about a hundred years in terms of rhetoric, repeating the old Gospel of Wealth lines about how the rich are better people because if you're poor its your own fault, and yet people still like him because they feel like he's a breath of fresh air?

    The cognitive dissonance of it all...

    I'm at the point right now where I simply cannot understand what the massive appeal is anymore.

    Appeal to burning it all down? I guess?

    Trump makes a lot more sense when you realize that many conservatives are very, very stupid.

    What a stunning insight. If we've got everything so figured out in here, then it's possible we don't need a GOP Primary thread at all!

  • NobeardNobeard North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    Nobeard wrote: »
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    Atomika wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    So Trump is backing up about a hundred years in terms of rhetoric, repeating the old Gospel of Wealth lines about how the rich are better people because if you're poor its your own fault, and yet people still like him because they feel like he's a breath of fresh air?

    The cognitive dissonance of it all...

    I'm at the point right now where I simply cannot understand what the massive appeal is anymore.

    Appeal to burning it all down? I guess?

    Trump makes a lot more sense when you realize that many conservatives are very, very stupid.

    My gut reaction is to agree with you, but I'm trying to look at things from a different perspective. One paradox I see again and again is that sometimes seemingly intelligent people, people who excel in STEM fields like medicine for example, are staunchly conservative and will vote for the most transparently incompetent/evil people. I don't want to dismiss people as stupid when they just think differently.

    Thinking differently is commendable, and necessary. That isn't what's happening here. When you look at the bastard offspring of an Oompa Loompa and Voldemort and think, "I want to give that man control of nuclear weapons," you're just an idiot.

    If someone thought that the best way to clean plates was to set them on fire in the sink, that person would be a moron. Not all opinions are created equal. American political discourse would be stronger if we didn't have this weird reflex to put the opinions of Neil de Grasse Tyson and Cousin Cleetus on the same level.

    The reason we have to seriously consider the opinion of Cousin Cleetus is that a significant portion of the population is agreeing with him and wants him as their president. Simple stupidity is insufficient to explain the number and passion of Trump's supporters.

    Don't get me wrong. I think some of Trump's supporters are stupid. But stupid people still have actual reasons for why they do what they do, and I wand to understand those reasons.

  • KetBraKetBra Dressed Ridiculously Registered User regular
    milski wrote: »
    KetBra wrote: »
    milski wrote: »
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    Brolo wrote: »
    Astaereth wrote: »
    Brolo wrote: »

    @Brolo or somebody, what was this? It's gone or blocked.

    It was a clip from this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgZU6pGKgRk

    This same pastor went on to introduce Ted Cruz at this convention.

    And this is why Trump scares me less than Cruz.

    Because he's less likely than Cruz to tattoo numbers and a pink triangle on my arm.

    Maybe marginally

    We are arguing over whether we would rather listen to nothing but Call Me Maybe for 4 years or get an eye gouged out with a red-hot poker

    "Will I receive immediate medical attention?"

    "Yes, an ambulance is standing by with an excellent EMT."

    "...Do I get a cool eyepatch?"

    "No."

    ".............Fuck, give me the poker."

    Carly Rae Jepsen, unlike Ted Cruz, is both an American and Canadian National treasure. And her new album Emotion is an amazing pop album, probably the best I heard in 2015.

    Are you secretly Griffin McElroy?

    Her new album is actually good. I feel like Cassandra here. I speak the truth and you refuse to listen.

    I will note for the court that the defendant does not deny the allegations

    KGMvDLc.jpg?1
  • NiryaNirya Registered User regular
  • ZythonZython Registered User regular
    edited March 2016
    Nobeard wrote: »
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    Nobeard wrote: »
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    Atomika wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    So Trump is backing up about a hundred years in terms of rhetoric, repeating the old Gospel of Wealth lines about how the rich are better people because if you're poor its your own fault, and yet people still like him because they feel like he's a breath of fresh air?

    The cognitive dissonance of it all...

    I'm at the point right now where I simply cannot understand what the massive appeal is anymore.

    Appeal to burning it all down? I guess?

    Trump makes a lot more sense when you realize that many conservatives are very, very stupid.

    My gut reaction is to agree with you, but I'm trying to look at things from a different perspective. One paradox I see again and again is that sometimes seemingly intelligent people, people who excel in STEM fields like medicine for example, are staunchly conservative and will vote for the most transparently incompetent/evil people. I don't want to dismiss people as stupid when they just think differently.

    Thinking differently is commendable, and necessary. That isn't what's happening here. When you look at the bastard offspring of an Oompa Loompa and Voldemort and think, "I want to give that man control of nuclear weapons," you're just an idiot.

    If someone thought that the best way to clean plates was to set them on fire in the sink, that person would be a moron. Not all opinions are created equal. American political discourse would be stronger if we didn't have this weird reflex to put the opinions of Neil de Grasse Tyson and Cousin Cleetus on the same level.

    The reason we have to seriously consider the opinion of Cousin Cleetus is that a significant portion of the population is agreeing with him and wants him as their president. Simple stupidity is insufficient to explain the number and passion of Trump's supporters.

    Don't get me wrong. I think some of Trump's supporters are stupid. But stupid people still have actual reasons for why they do what they do, and I wand to understand those reasons.

    I don't think they're stupid. They know exactly what Trump wants, and what that would result in. The thing is they think those are good things. They're not operating on the same moral framework that we are.

    Let me bring up an example. A lot of neo-Nazi will claim, with a straight face, that Adolf Hitler was kind and caring to all peoples of the world. They can claim this because they don't consider his victims to be people. Same thing here. When they claim Trump isn't racist, they claim that because they don't see Hispanics, black people, or Arabs as people. It's like claiming someone is racist against mosquitos, to them. They don't see Trump's platform as genocide, they see it as fumigation.

    The reason people are chalking it up to stupidity is because we're more familiar with faulty reasoning, rather than alien moral foundations.

    Zython on
    Switch: SW-3245-5421-8042 | 3DS Friend Code: 4854-6465-0299 | PSN: Zaithon
    Steam: pazython
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Also re: Cruz vs Trump, it's important to remember that the President's ability to act unilaterally is alot strong in the foreign policy sphere then the domestic policy sphere.

    A president's ability to start rounding up and executing the gays or the muslims is far more unlikely then their ability to start a shooting war with Iran.

  • AbacusAbacus Registered User regular
    edited March 2016
    Russia is a bad example since Trump got praised by the Russian goverment. Iran is also a bad example since Trump talked of renegotiating the Iran deal, instead of shredding it because Fuck Obama like the rest of the field.

    Abacus on
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Also re: Cruz vs Trump, it's important to remember that the President's ability to act unilaterally is alot strong in the foreign policy sphere then the domestic policy sphere.

    A president's ability to start rounding up and executing the gays or the muslims is far more unlikely then their ability to start a shooting war with Iran.

    With a gop lead congress I wouldn't be so sure about domestic fuckery. Witness the patriot act.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Also re: Cruz vs Trump, it's important to remember that the President's ability to act unilaterally is alot strong in the foreign policy sphere then the domestic policy sphere.

    A president's ability to start rounding up and executing the gays or the muslims is far more unlikely then their ability to start a shooting war with Iran.

    With a gop lead congress I wouldn't be so sure about domestic fuckery. Witness the patriot act.

    The difference between Trump and Cruz as president would be Cruz is more likely to get groups like the Freedom Caucus to start introducing domestic fuckery. Trump would still probably sign it anyway. So the result would be pretty much the same since in both cases Cruz is still being a shit disturber.

    You're muckin' with a G!

    Do not engage the Watermelons.
  • ShortyShorty touching the meat Intergalactic Cool CourtRegistered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »


    There's a lot of people (like Shaun King) saying that NOW Carson is dead to them. Where the hell they were in these long months?

    shaun king seems like a weird one to mention

    he was already pretty critical of Carson

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Also re: Cruz vs Trump, it's important to remember that the President's ability to act unilaterally is alot strong in the foreign policy sphere then the domestic policy sphere.

    A president's ability to start rounding up and executing the gays or the muslims is far more unlikely then their ability to start a shooting war with Iran.

    With a gop lead congress I wouldn't be so sure about domestic fuckery. Witness the patriot act.

    The Patriot Act took a major terrorist attack on US soil to pass and is still not even close to the kind of shit people are talking about above or the kind of shit the President can get up to in foreign affairs without needing Congress. There's simply no comparison here in terms of severity.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Russia is a bad example since Trump got praised by the Russian goverment. Iran is also a bad example since Trump talked of renegotiating the Iran deal, instead of shredding it because Fuck Obama like the rest of the field.

    And he's also talked about how America's vassals should be paying tribute and is willing to keep a grudge going for 30 years over someone telling him he has small hands.

    Trump is exactly the kind of person who would react aggressively to slights against him and that's scary as fuck on the international level from the leader of the US.

  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    edited March 2016
    Was it previously mentioned that the reason why the Brietbart reporter was grabbed was because it was thought she was from the SCLM?
    Lewandowski’s explanation to Boyle, said these sources, was that he and Fields had never met before and that he didn’t recognize her as a Breitbart reporter, instead mistaking her for an adversarial member of the mainstream media.

    That explains everything!

    Santa Claustrophobia on
    You're muckin' with a G!

    Do not engage the Watermelons.
This discussion has been closed.