The only thing I will say on this subject is that if this is how Blizzard is going to act, then they shouldn't have put it into the game in the first place
I'm not speaking to your post specifically or as a whole, but this isn't a very fair criticism of any creative project, especially not a collaborative one. Stuff gets stuck in there that's no in line with your overall vision and can often survive multiple passes through, even getting past Creative Directors.
The sheer amount of material that has to be created, processed, and approved is astronomical for a project this big, and if something borderline got through and later removed that's really just how this stuff works.
Styrofoam Sammich on
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
god that white lingerie dress costume for widowmaker is so dumb
not even from a sexualization blah blah standpoint, it just looks really dumb
god that white lingerie dress costume for widowmaker is so dumb
not even from a sexualization blah blah standpoint, it just looks really dumb
It's from Black Swan - the movie with Natalie Portman. I'm not saying that does or does not make it look any less dumb, but it is a reference to outside material.
Honestly though, they play up the whole "youthful big sister" vibe so much with Tracer that the entire notion of sexualizing her just creeps me the fuck out.
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BeezelThere was no agreement little morsel..Registered Userregular
I think it gets to a point where a lot of people like to imagine most game studios having some sort of J.Jonah Jameson type head honcho that just lays down directives when the truth of the matter is a lot of, if not all AAA titles are designed by committee in the first place. They are called development -teams- for a reason. The only time anyone might have that kind of pull is on critical issues that most definitely will affect their bottom line or the long term image of their brand. good or bad.
Let us not reduce the combat fodder for the meat grinder into pieces of meat.
Is an obscure pose that >90% of players never knew about really worth 3 solid pages of Scarlet Lettering? It reaches a point where the backlash creates more ugliness than whatever anti-social behavior an animated emote would have caused.
Let us not reduce the combat fodder for the meat grinder into pieces of meat.
Is an obscure pose that >90% of players never knew about really worth 3 solid pages of Scarlet Lettering? It reaches a point where the backlash creates more ugliness than whatever anti-social behavior an animated emote would have caused.
I mean, Blizzard responded and changed the game somewhat. Otherwise, of course, we wouldn't be talking about it. And I don't think there's a lot of negative backlash here, is there?
(Also, is this Scarlet Lettering? I'd have assumed it was more "slut shaming" than what's going on here, based on the source, but I may not be up-to-date with the cool kids' lingo.)
Let us not reduce the combat fodder for the meat grinder into pieces of meat.
Is an obscure pose that >90% of players never knew about really worth 3 solid pages of Scarlet Lettering? It reaches a point where the backlash creates more ugliness than whatever anti-social behavior an animated emote would have caused.
Blizzard should do the right thing, not be afraid of reddit backlash or trolls. For people who care about the issue of oversexualization of female game characters, yes it is "worth it."
So It Goes on
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MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
That's because the "ugly backlash" is from a bunch of manchildren who are absolutely terrified that any move toward inclusivity is going to end in the man coming to take their toys away.
Her butt is still there, she just doesn't point it directly at the camera during the team lineup anymore, I think I'll survive.
That's because the "ugly backlash" is from a bunch of manchildren who are absolutely terrified that any move toward inclusivity is going to end in the man coming to take their toys away.
Her butt is still there, she just doesn't point it directly at the camera during the team lineup anymore, I think I'll survive.
IDK, Reddit leaves one with the impression that this is the second Battle of Verdun
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CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
And at the end of the day, these manchildren will line up to buy the game with the rest of us and give big bags of money to big ol' meanie Blizzard.
tb was literally banned from these forums after making an account to trash talk people shitting on his WotLK coverage in the wow thread
omg I just laughed so loud
to be fair to TB i will mention that he realized later on in his life that he had a problem with compulsively seeking out criticism of his work and engaging with it and it was a bad habit he should stop
but he also never realized his other bad habits so HEH
The only thing I will say on this subject is that if this is how Blizzard is going to act, then they shouldn't have put it into the game in the first place, or a sexy black widow type either, or a zerg lady that fights in hooker heels, or a different sniper lady that turns invisible in a skintight cloaking suit. Bikini clad elf ladies all over an MMO as well.
After all these years, there's a certain.....how to put it. It seems "fake" of them to cave in when the slightest of breezes blows their way, when they have been consistently doing it for at least a decade now. They could have just said it stays, tough shit if you don't like it, and that would have been the end of it.
It's like the Tychus Cigar thing, and LoL wussing out as well. Everyone going nuts about smoking being bad, and at the same time saying smoking marijuana is great, wherein no one seems to understand that putting -any- smoke in your lungs is going to kill you. Somehow it's not bad because it's addictive and damaging in a totally different way, so it's ok, right? Right? McCree has a cigar, let's see how long it last before someone goes "Think of the children!" to which they should respond "So.....it should be a blunt instead of a cigar?" and the community will scream "Yes!".
At some point this sort of thing goes too far, and there's a line somewhere, but who decides where that line is?
As similar as they seem, I really think these are two different things (smoking vs sexualization, I mean). I don't think you can get too deep into a conversation where you are trying to equate them.
That said, I have no problems with Blizzard "blowing in the breeze" if it causes them to consistently make more inclusive and mature decisions. One could also, perhaps, call that "growing up".
You kinda missed my point. My point is that Kerrigan, Nova, Sylvanas and every other elf woman predated it. People are trying to go "Widowmaker is ok, as long as it's -tasteful-." Who decides what's tasteful? It's either ok across the board or it isn't. Widowmaker being a couple tropes wrapped up into one should actually make it worse. You could try and justify it with the story, but inside the game, there's no such story to speak of, which for many would be the only medium they'd experience this stuff. Someone else pointed it out, but does D.Va -really- need a skintight suit then? I realize they were going for a N.G.E. vibe, but shouldn't it be bad that the justification would be "She's 18 (or older) so it's ok."?
The only thing I will say on this subject is that if this is how Blizzard is going to act, then they shouldn't have put it into the game in the first place, or a sexy black widow type either, or a zerg lady that fights in hooker heels, or a different sniper lady that turns invisible in a skintight cloaking suit. Bikini clad elf ladies all over an MMO as well.
After all these years, there's a certain.....how to put it. It seems "fake" of them to cave in when the slightest of breezes blows their way, when they have been consistently doing it for at least a decade now. They could have just said it stays, tough shit if you don't like it, and that would have been the end of it.
It's like the Tychus Cigar thing, and LoL wussing out as well. Everyone going nuts about smoking being bad, and at the same time saying smoking marijuana is great, wherein no one seems to understand that putting -any- smoke in your lungs is going to kill you. Somehow it's not bad because it's addictive and damaging in a totally different way, so it's ok, right? Right? McCree has a cigar, let's see how long it last before someone goes "Think of the children!" to which they should respond "So.....it should be a blunt instead of a cigar?" and the community will scream "Yes!".
At some point this sort of thing goes too far, and there's a line somewhere, but who decides where that line is?
As similar as they seem, I really think these are two different things (smoking vs sexualization, I mean). I don't think you can get too deep into a conversation where you are trying to equate them.
That said, I have no problems with Blizzard "blowing in the breeze" if it causes them to consistently make more inclusive and mature decisions. One could also, perhaps, call that "growing up".
It's either ok across the board or it isn't.
no
you can have a stripper wearing next to nothing in a show, that doesn't mean it's okay to have the first lady wearing next to nothing in a show
I wouldn't care about sexy tracer butt if there was a degree of man cheesecake to offset it. A bit of fanservice now and then is not a big deal to me.
But since there's not, I'm perfectly happy with it being removed. It was a pretty dumb pose.
This is the beta after all, the whole point is to remove dumb stuff
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
Let us not reduce the combat fodder for the meat grinder into pieces of meat.
Is an obscure pose that >90% of players never knew about really worth 3 solid pages of Scarlet Lettering? It reaches a point where the backlash creates more ugliness than whatever anti-social behavior an animated emote would have caused.
Blizzard should do the right thing, not be afraid of reddit backlash or trolls. For people who care about the issue of oversexualization of female game characters, yes it is "worth it."
As somebody who has been playing a lot of Street Fighter 5 recently, I fully and wholly support devs ditching the obnoxious overt sexist shit. It should not be outright embarrassing to be seen playing a game with female characters stuffed in lift-and-separate thongs, complete with blatant eye-candy poses to go with the outfits.
I would infinitely rather Blizzard dial it back a bit too much on the female characters, then have yet another game where being seen playing it means I have to defend why my 9-foot-tall 500-lb knight dude in head-to-toe armor is fighting 100-lb chicks in bikini chainmail that is more like a rumor than actual clothing.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
I think one of the fundamental problems with Mei is that when her kit works she's not fun to play against. Oh, I'm frozen and can't move. Oh, she blocked us from chasing with a wall. Oh, she's healing to full health while backup comes.
To make an analogy to another game, it's like Priest in Hearthstone or Mists of Stagnation decks in MtG. Even when it's not especially dominant, the mechanics are such that it's just kind of unenjoyable to play against because their entire kit is about shutting down your ability to do anything.
Really curious when/if we're getting new characters.
JackdawGin on
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Ov3rchargeR.I.P. Mass EffectYou were dead to me for yearsRegistered Userregular
I can't believe this is an issue, it's a video game character, if someone gets so offended over a virtual butt they need to leave the computer and go outside, or maybe not, the amount of butts might send them into a coma.
I think one of the fundamental problems with Mei is that when her kit works she's not fun to play against. Oh, I'm frozen and can't move. Oh, she blocked us from chasing with a wall. Oh, she's healing to full health while backup comes.
To make an analogy to another game, it's like Priest in Hearthstone or Mists of Stagnation decks in MtG. Even when it's not especially dominant, the mechanics are such that it's just kind of unenjoyable to play against because their entire kit is about shutting down your ability to do anything.
It's not only that though. Her right click still seems really strong. Or maybe people always just headshot me....
I think one of the fundamental problems with Mei is that when her kit works she's not fun to play against. Oh, I'm frozen and can't move. Oh, she blocked us from chasing with a wall. Oh, she's healing to full health while backup comes.
To make an analogy to another game, it's like Priest in Hearthstone or Mists of Stagnation decks in MtG. Even when it's not especially dominant, the mechanics are such that it's just kind of unenjoyable to play against because their entire kit is about shutting down your ability to do anything.
It's not only that though. Her right click still seems really strong. Or maybe people always just headshot me....
That's the real crux of the issue, if you can land her headshot it's really strong. If not, you are more just annoying than anything.
NNID: delphinidaes Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
The only thing I will say on this subject is that if this is how Blizzard is going to act, then they shouldn't have put it into the game in the first place, or a sexy black widow type either, or a zerg lady that fights in hooker heels, or a different sniper lady that turns invisible in a skintight cloaking suit. Bikini clad elf ladies all over an MMO as well.
After all these years, there's a certain.....how to put it. It seems "fake" of them to cave in when the slightest of breezes blows their way, when they have been consistently doing it for at least a decade now. They could have just said it stays, tough shit if you don't like it, and that would have been the end of it.
It's like the Tychus Cigar thing, and LoL wussing out as well. Everyone going nuts about smoking being bad, and at the same time saying smoking marijuana is great, wherein no one seems to understand that putting -any- smoke in your lungs is going to kill you. Somehow it's not bad because it's addictive and damaging in a totally different way, so it's ok, right? Right? McCree has a cigar, let's see how long it last before someone goes "Think of the children!" to which they should respond "So.....it should be a blunt instead of a cigar?" and the community will scream "Yes!".
At some point this sort of thing goes too far, and there's a line somewhere, but who decides where that line is?
As similar as they seem, I really think these are two different things (smoking vs sexualization, I mean). I don't think you can get too deep into a conversation where you are trying to equate them.
That said, I have no problems with Blizzard "blowing in the breeze" if it causes them to consistently make more inclusive and mature decisions. One could also, perhaps, call that "growing up".
Seriously I've found the past few years of Blizzard really nice because it seems like someone told them their stuff was being somewhat sexist and non-inclusive and instead of the usual denial and bullshit they went "Hey, you know what? You're right. We need to be better about this stuff." and then they went out and did that. I don't feel like they are perfect by any means but I feel like they are honestly trying and correcting themselves and that's really nice to see.
Posts
I'm not speaking to your post specifically or as a whole, but this isn't a very fair criticism of any creative project, especially not a collaborative one. Stuff gets stuck in there that's no in line with your overall vision and can often survive multiple passes through, even getting past Creative Directors.
The sheer amount of material that has to be created, processed, and approved is astronomical for a project this big, and if something borderline got through and later removed that's really just how this stuff works.
not even from a sexualization blah blah standpoint, it just looks really dumb
I like the bird mask but that's about it
It's from Black Swan - the movie with Natalie Portman. I'm not saying that does or does not make it look any less dumb, but it is a reference to outside material.
XBL: InvaderJims
Bnet: Pudgestomp#11153
"...only mights and maybes."
Is an obscure pose that >90% of players never knew about really worth 3 solid pages of Scarlet Lettering? It reaches a point where the backlash creates more ugliness than whatever anti-social behavior an animated emote would have caused.
I mean, Blizzard responded and changed the game somewhat. Otherwise, of course, we wouldn't be talking about it. And I don't think there's a lot of negative backlash here, is there?
(Also, is this Scarlet Lettering? I'd have assumed it was more "slut shaming" than what's going on here, based on the source, but I may not be up-to-date with the cool kids' lingo.)
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
Blizzard should do the right thing, not be afraid of reddit backlash or trolls. For people who care about the issue of oversexualization of female game characters, yes it is "worth it."
Her butt is still there, she just doesn't point it directly at the camera during the team lineup anymore, I think I'll survive.
IDK, Reddit leaves one with the impression that this is the second Battle of Verdun
to be fair to TB i will mention that he realized later on in his life that he had a problem with compulsively seeking out criticism of his work and engaging with it and it was a bad habit he should stop
but he also never realized his other bad habits so HEH
You kinda missed my point. My point is that Kerrigan, Nova, Sylvanas and every other elf woman predated it. People are trying to go "Widowmaker is ok, as long as it's -tasteful-." Who decides what's tasteful? It's either ok across the board or it isn't. Widowmaker being a couple tropes wrapped up into one should actually make it worse. You could try and justify it with the story, but inside the game, there's no such story to speak of, which for many would be the only medium they'd experience this stuff. Someone else pointed it out, but does D.Va -really- need a skintight suit then? I realize they were going for a N.G.E. vibe, but shouldn't it be bad that the justification would be "She's 18 (or older) so it's ok."?
Also, TB isn't salient to this topic. To be honest, this topic is actually fairly trite and probably shouldn't be like 33% of the current thread.
In my experience in life, there is no such thing as "ok across the board". Everyone has a problem with something.
no
you can have a stripper wearing next to nothing in a show, that doesn't mean it's okay to have the first lady wearing next to nothing in a show
But since there's not, I'm perfectly happy with it being removed. It was a pretty dumb pose.
This is the beta after all, the whole point is to remove dumb stuff
CorriganX on Steam and just about everywhere else.
As somebody who has been playing a lot of Street Fighter 5 recently, I fully and wholly support devs ditching the obnoxious overt sexist shit. It should not be outright embarrassing to be seen playing a game with female characters stuffed in lift-and-separate thongs, complete with blatant eye-candy poses to go with the outfits.
I would infinitely rather Blizzard dial it back a bit too much on the female characters, then have yet another game where being seen playing it means I have to defend why my 9-foot-tall 500-lb knight dude in head-to-toe armor is fighting 100-lb chicks in bikini chainmail that is more like a rumor than actual clothing.
Nah
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
is it the pose or the outfit you have a problem with?
CorriganX on Steam and just about everywhere else.
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
Yeah. Hanzo always flauntin that junk.
The pose will be gone; it's an insignificant thing in this game. Moving on.
COME ON BLIZZ WHY DID I GET INTO HOTS ALPHA BUT NOT THIS?
I think one of the fundamental problems with Mei is that when her kit works she's not fun to play against. Oh, I'm frozen and can't move. Oh, she blocked us from chasing with a wall. Oh, she's healing to full health while backup comes.
To make an analogy to another game, it's like Priest in Hearthstone or Mists of Stagnation decks in MtG. Even when it's not especially dominant, the mechanics are such that it's just kind of unenjoyable to play against because their entire kit is about shutting down your ability to do anything.
It's not only that though. Her right click still seems really strong. Or maybe people always just headshot me....
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
That's the real crux of the issue, if you can land her headshot it's really strong. If not, you are more just annoying than anything.
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
I think they've said we won't be getting more until after release.
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
I like to throw negatives on absolute blowouts either way
idk if that helps them gather data on the MM or what, I feel better doing it though!
negative game experience reported
Seriously I've found the past few years of Blizzard really nice because it seems like someone told them their stuff was being somewhat sexist and non-inclusive and instead of the usual denial and bullshit they went "Hey, you know what? You're right. We need to be better about this stuff." and then they went out and did that. I don't feel like they are perfect by any means but I feel like they are honestly trying and correcting themselves and that's really nice to see.
EDIT: Sorry mod-people!