The Republican Primary: Jailhouse Edition

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  • Crimson KingCrimson King Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    that would only make sense if smart people, or people with whatever desirable hereditary characteristic, were more likely to die in the world wars than dumb people

    Crimson King on
  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    I find whats happening in russia just really sad

  • Houk the NamebringerHouk the Namebringer Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    that would only make sense if smart people, or people with whatever desirable hereditary characteristic, were more likely to die in the world wars than dumb people

    If your view of a "proper" soldier is brave, strong, smart, and generally capable of protecting the people he cares about, and that conversely someone who isn't or can't be a soldier is weak, cowardly, dull, or otherwise incapable, I can see how that kind of viewpoint could take hold.

    I mean I don't hold that view and I highly doubt that science backs it up, but soldiers are generally lionized throughout history and it's not really a surprise that would be the common wisdom. Unfortunate, but not surprising.

  • jmcdonaldjmcdonald I voted, did you? DC(ish)Registered User regular
    Taramoor wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Atomika wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    What do you mean Obama couldn't ace it? He beat Romney soundly?

    Spoken like someone who forgot the first debate

    The previous debate Obama took part in was ~4 years prior. For Clinton it's been a week.

    And, although Bernie is certainly not a master debater, he is undoubtedly better than Trump.

    Are you kidding, have you seen Trump's hands? He's probably the greatest master debater of all time.

    I hope Hillary punches down by implying her hands are bigger than his.

  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/04/21/trump-is-playing-a-part-and-can-transform-for-victory-campaign-chief-tells-gop-leaders/
    Trump’s chief strategist Paul Manafort told members of the Republican National Committee in a closed-door briefing here Thursday afternoon that his candidate has been playing a “part” on the campaign trail, but is starting to pivot toward presenting a more businesslike and presidential “persona.”

    “He gets it,” Manafort told RNC members. “The part that he’s been playing is now evolving into the part that you’ve been expecting. The negatives will come down, the image is going to change, but ‘Crooked Hillary’ is still going to be ‘Crooked Hillary.’”

    The RNC members laughed at Manafort’s use of Trump’s derogatory nickname for Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton. “She is going to hate him,” Manafort said. “And he enjoys digging it in that way.”

    Manafort argued that Clinton’s negative favorability ratings are caused by “character” issues, whereas Trump’s are fueled by “personality” concerns.

    “Fixing personality negatives is a lot easier than fixing character negatives,” Manafort said. “You can’t change somebody’s character, but you can change the way a person presents himself.”
    This is splitting amazingly fine hairs at best, and that is assuming there is even a real difference between "character" and "personality" to the average voter. How does "he enjoys digging it in that way" work with "presenting a more businesslike and presidential 'persona?'"

    Couscous on
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    that would only make sense if smart people, or people with whatever desirable hereditary characteristic, were more likely to die in the world wars than dumb people

    Or, perhaps, that any smart people who spoke out against the ruling party, or presented any research that the ruling party didn't like, were summarily "dealt with"

    Soviet Russia has a well-documented history of scientists and researchers getting their work shut down and their lives ruined (up to and including imprisonment and death) because a scientist with an opposing view was high on the totem pole.

  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    Nova_C wrote: »
    I hope that +17 for Canada is only because there's so much Sanders support up here.

    Or you all have a well hidden desire to get revenge for the American invasion of Canada two hundred years ago, and know that the Trump caused collapse that you will finally have your chance.

    We just really want to build a wall along our southern border :P

    sig.gif
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    I can only imagine Russians appear to favor Trump because he said flattering things about Putin.

    When your enemy is about to do something really stupid like elect a fool, you don't want to discourage it.

  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    that would only make sense if smart people, or people with whatever desirable hereditary characteristic, were more likely to die in the world wars than dumb people

    Or, perhaps, that any smart people who spoke out against the ruling party, or presented any research that the ruling party didn't like, were summarily "dealt with"

    Soviet Russia has a well-documented history of scientists and researchers getting their work shut down and their lives ruined (up to and including imprisonment and death) because a scientist with an opposing view was high on the totem pole.

    Also, when families are broken up, and there's a lack of male role models can also have an adverse effect on children's (specifically son's) behavior

  • mrondeaumrondeau Montréal, CanadaRegistered User regular
    Nova_C wrote: »
    I hope that +17 for Canada is only because there's so much Sanders support up here.

    I googled that article (don't read the comments), and "Hillary's smallest lead over Bernie Sanders comes from Canada, but even then she leads by 17 points."
    Given that about 75% (varies slightly depending in the poll) of Canadian are opposed to Trump, I would not worry to much about it.

  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    I can only imagine Russians appear to favor Trump because he said flattering things about Putin.

    When your enemy is about to do something really stupid like elect a fool, you don't want to discourage it.
    Three guesses on who also came to the Trump train lately:
    If Donald Trump wins the Republican nomination, his victory will be celebrated not only in Mar-a-Lago, but also in Beijing.

    The Chinese Communist Party’s media conduits are swooning over the vulgar, politically-incorrect frontrunner, telegraphing that if Trump were to rise to a position of real power, it would be a boon for the country’s regional ambitions.

    Chinese-language press and state media—especially foreign policy columnists—have written extensively and favorably about Trump’s geopolitical views. Many pro-Beijing writers have looked past his threats of a trade war with China, viewing his willingness to undercut America’s existing alliances in Asia as an incredible strategic opportunity.

    It’s the latest twist for a politician who loves bashing the East Asian country on the campaign trail, enunciating it with his trademark flair: “Chai-Nah.” And it’s an emerging pattern of praise from America’s rivals, to include the mutual admiration society between the billionaire and Russian President Vladimir Putin. And in fact, Trump has had a lot of good things to say about dictators in the past.

    One of the best examples of the apparent pro-Trump sentiment from the Chinese government is from the nationalistic Global Times, an official newspaper of the Chinese Communist Party. It published an article in late March, covering Trump’s rise, titled: “Trump is not a lunatic.” The article goes on with a quote that he is a “shrewd businessman” with his finger on the political pulse of his countrymen, and that the country’s mood is to slip away from “imperial hegemony.”

    To be sure, some voices in the Chinese government have criticized Trump’s suggestion of a high tariff on Chinese imports. But even quasi-independent Chinese outlets are writing about the possibilities the Republican frontrunner could present to China, and, echoing his American supporters, argue that he is only putting on an act and would actually be quite flexible as president.

    “Why isn’t China worried about Mr. Trump’s threat of high tariffs on their exports to the US? Because he’s also said he’s a deal-maker. They think they can make a deal to preserve what they have in the US-China relationship while a Trump administration retreats from world economic leadership,” Derek Scissors, a resident scholar at the conservative American Enterprise Institute, told The Daily Beast.

    Caixin, a media organization in China, has done just that: dismissing the threat of a tariff, arguing that Trump’s positions and principles are constantly changing, and that the billionaire is a realist, much like Henry Kissinger.

    Between Trump and Hillary Clinton, the article continues, Trump may be a better choice because he is a negotiator rather than a hardened ideologue—and certainly he would be better than the “hostile” attitude that President George W. Bush had toward China.

    “The Chinese media has made statements that are more friendly to Trump than one might expect, and more friendly to Trump than Hillary Clinton if it came up between the two,” said Jennifer Harris, a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations who is also an informal unpaid adviser to the Hillary Clinton campaign. There is, Harris said, a “comfort” with Trump among the Chinese media, which are heavily influenced by the government’s position.

  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    This sudden shift of opinion seem to have come when Trump talked about dissolving NATO and let Japan and others on their own.

    Hmm.

  • themightypuckthemightypuck MontanaRegistered User regular
    edited April 2016
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    This sudden shift of opinion seem to have come when Trump talked about dissolving NATO and let Japan and others on their own.

    Hmm.

    There is also the fact that he seems to have a Samuel Huntington "Clash of Civilizations" view of geopolitics where he is happy to let various sphere's of influence influence their sphere's so long as they don't mess with the USA. Of course it is difficult to predict how Presidents will act once in office. The US has been very interventionist for a very long time and POTUS might not matter that much.

    themightypuck on
    “Reject your sense of injury and the injury itself disappears.”
    ― Marcus Aurelius

    Path of Exile: themightypuck
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/04/21/trump-is-playing-a-part-and-can-transform-for-victory-campaign-chief-tells-gop-leaders/
    Trump’s chief strategist Paul Manafort told members of the Republican National Committee in a closed-door briefing here Thursday afternoon that his candidate has been playing a “part” on the campaign trail, but is starting to pivot toward presenting a more businesslike and presidential “persona.”

    “He gets it,” Manafort told RNC members. “The part that he’s been playing is now evolving into the part that you’ve been expecting. The negatives will come down, the image is going to change, but ‘Crooked Hillary’ is still going to be ‘Crooked Hillary.’”

    The RNC members laughed at Manafort’s use of Trump’s derogatory nickname for Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton. “She is going to hate him,” Manafort said. “And he enjoys digging it in that way.”

    Manafort argued that Clinton’s negative favorability ratings are caused by “character” issues, whereas Trump’s are fueled by “personality” concerns.

    “Fixing personality negatives is a lot easier than fixing character negatives,” Manafort said. “You can’t change somebody’s character, but you can change the way a person presents himself.”
    This is splitting amazingly fine hairs at best, and that is assuming there is even a real difference between "character" and "personality" to the average voter. How does "he enjoys digging it in that way" work with "presenting a more businesslike and presidential 'persona?'"

    So we learned nothing from Romney's Etch-A-Sketch comment huh

  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited April 2016

    Betteridge's law definitely applies to any question asking if Trump is becoming more "presidential."

    Edit:

    Couscous on
  • Magus`Magus` The fun has been DOUBLED! Registered User regular
    I assume at least one of Cruz's parents were US citizens?

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Magus` wrote: »
    I assume at least one of Cruz's parents were US citizens?

    Yep. His case is less obvious than Obama or McCain, but he's a natural born citizen.

    The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »

    Betteridge's law definitely applies to any question asking if Trump is becoming more "presidential."

    Edit:

    I don't even get this reference. Ted Cruz is a ninja turtle?

  • mrondeaumrondeau Montréal, CanadaRegistered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »

    Betteridge's law definitely applies to any question asking if Trump is becoming more "presidential."

    Edit:

    I don't even get this reference. Ted Cruz is a ninja turtle?

    Especially since Cruz was born in Alberta, and not the western parts of Alberta.

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    His given name is Rafael Edward Cruz.

    The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    It is the equivalent of calling Bobby Jindal "Piyush" or taking the time to always say "Hussein" in Barack Hussein Obama.

  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Rafael is a great name, so I think he's better off sticking with "Lyin' Ted." Rafael is the name of one of the angels for pity's sake.

    Peace to fashion police, I wear my heart
    On my sleeve, let the runway start
  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    mrondeau wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »

    Betteridge's law definitely applies to any question asking if Trump is becoming more "presidential."

    Edit:

    I don't even get this reference. Ted Cruz is a ninja turtle?

    Especially since Cruz was born in Alberta, and not the western parts of Alberta.

    Culturally, especially when he was born, he was born in the most western part of Alberta.

  • mrondeaumrondeau Montréal, CanadaRegistered User regular
    Nova_C wrote: »
    mrondeau wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »

    Betteridge's law definitely applies to any question asking if Trump is becoming more "presidential."

    Edit:

    I don't even get this reference. Ted Cruz is a ninja turtle?

    Especially since Cruz was born in Alberta, and not the western parts of Alberta.

    Culturally, especially when he was born, he was born in the most western part of Alberta.

    I'm referring to the geography of Alberta, who is not known for its hilly nature.

  • TaramoorTaramoor Storyteller Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Rafael is a great name, so I think he's better off sticking with "Lyin' Ted." Rafael is the name of one of the angels for pity's sake.

    Honestly, based solely on the names as written, I'm far more likely to vote for "Rafael Cruz" than "Ted Cruz".

    Also never liked "Jeb Bush" or "Mitt Romney". John Edward Bush is solid presidential and, well, Willard Romney still sounds like a guy who comes from money so old it tries to send back soup for being too hot, but it's better than "Mitt!"

  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    Willard Romney sounds like a guy who will feed me to rats.

    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/trump-aide-accused-of-bullying-delaware-gop-for-delegates-222335
    When Donald Trump’s campaign dispatched Joe Uddo, a former Ben Carson aide, to Delaware last week, he had a mission: twist a few arms to get Trump supporters into the state’s delegation to the national convention.

    Uddo may have twisted a bit too hard: State GOP insiders say Uddo ripped their long-standing process from his very first phone call and hinted he might refer it to Trump’s high-powered law firm, Jones Day. Then, he suggested that continued resistance could lead to a nasty Trump campaign tweet about “backroom deals in Delaware,” according to three sources familiar with Uddo's interactions.

    State party leaders say they have no plans for last-minute changes to a delegate-selection process the party has been using since 1996. But the sources say the spat created bitter feelings between Delaware GOP insiders and the Trump campaign.

    “One of our delegates is just a little old lady,” said one of the sources. “This is not cigar chomping, tobacco spitting guys with three piece suits. These are just normal Delawareans, hardworking, retirees.”

    ...
    Why would Trump hire anybody from the Ben Carson campaign?

    Couscous on
  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    mrondeau wrote: »
    Nova_C wrote: »
    mrondeau wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »

    Betteridge's law definitely applies to any question asking if Trump is becoming more "presidential."

    Edit:

    I don't even get this reference. Ted Cruz is a ninja turtle?

    Especially since Cruz was born in Alberta, and not the western parts of Alberta.

    Culturally, especially when he was born, he was born in the most western part of Alberta.

    I'm referring to the geography of Alberta, who is not known for its hilly nature.

    Cruz was born in Calgary, which is in the foothills of the Rockies. :P

  • RchanenRchanen Registered User regular
    Nova_C wrote: »
    mrondeau wrote: »
    Nova_C wrote: »
    mrondeau wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »

    Betteridge's law definitely applies to any question asking if Trump is becoming more "presidential."

    Edit:

    I don't even get this reference. Ted Cruz is a ninja turtle?

    Especially since Cruz was born in Alberta, and not the western parts of Alberta.

    Culturally, especially when he was born, he was born in the most western part of Alberta.

    I'm referring to the geography of Alberta, who is not known for its hilly nature.

    Cruz was born in Calgary, which is in the foothills of the Rockies. :P

    Killed him some civil liberties when he was only 3...

  • DuffelDuffel jacobkosh Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    that would only make sense if smart people, or people with whatever desirable hereditary characteristic, were more likely to die in the world wars than dumb people

    Or, perhaps, that any smart people who spoke out against the ruling party, or presented any research that the ruling party didn't like, were summarily "dealt with"

    Soviet Russia has a well-documented history of scientists and researchers getting their work shut down and their lives ruined (up to and including imprisonment and death) because a scientist with an opposing view was high on the totem pole.

    Well, to be fair, this happens sometime in American academia too, minus the gulags obviously.

    Although the corollary - someone higher on the totem pole agreeing with you, so they steal your research, and burn down your career to cover their tracks - is quite a bit more common.

  • Houk the NamebringerHouk the Namebringer Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    Rchanen wrote: »
    Nova_C wrote: »
    mrondeau wrote: »
    Nova_C wrote: »
    mrondeau wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »

    Betteridge's law definitely applies to any question asking if Trump is becoming more "presidential."

    Edit:

    I don't even get this reference. Ted Cruz is a ninja turtle?

    Especially since Cruz was born in Alberta, and not the western parts of Alberta.

    Culturally, especially when he was born, he was born in the most western part of Alberta.

    I'm referring to the geography of Alberta, who is not known for its hilly nature.

    Cruz was born in Calgary, which is in the foothills of the Rockies. :P

    Killed him some civil liberties when he was only 3...

    Legend has it, with every step he took he created a lake of economic disparity that lives on even to this very day...

  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    This sudden shift of opinion seem to have come when Trump talked about dissolving NATO and let Japan and others on their own.

    Hmm.

    There is also the fact that he seems to have a Samuel Huntington "Clash of Civilizations" view of geopolitics where he is happy to let various sphere's of influence influence their sphere's so long as they don't mess with the USA. Of course it is difficult to predict how Presidents will act once in office. The US has been very interventionist for a very long time and POTUS might not matter that much.
    Different words for the same practical effect: It would be great for China that nobody was around to keep them from using that massive young male surplus in wars of conquest against everybody else.

  • mrondeaumrondeau Montréal, CanadaRegistered User regular
    Nova_C wrote: »
    mrondeau wrote: »
    Nova_C wrote: »
    mrondeau wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »

    Betteridge's law definitely applies to any question asking if Trump is becoming more "presidential."

    Edit:

    I don't even get this reference. Ted Cruz is a ninja turtle?

    Especially since Cruz was born in Alberta, and not the western parts of Alberta.

    Culturally, especially when he was born, he was born in the most western part of Alberta.

    I'm referring to the geography of Alberta, who is not known for its hilly nature.

    Cruz was born in Calgary, which is in the foothills of the Rockies. :P

    Hum, I was under the impression he was from Edmonton. My mistake.

  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Duffel wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    that would only make sense if smart people, or people with whatever desirable hereditary characteristic, were more likely to die in the world wars than dumb people

    Or, perhaps, that any smart people who spoke out against the ruling party, or presented any research that the ruling party didn't like, were summarily "dealt with"

    Soviet Russia has a well-documented history of scientists and researchers getting their work shut down and their lives ruined (up to and including imprisonment and death) because a scientist with an opposing view was high on the totem pole.

    Well, to be fair, this happens sometime in American academia too, minus the gulags obviously.

    Although the corollary - someone higher on the totem pole agreeing with you, so they steal your research, and burn down your career to cover their tracks - is quite a bit more common.

    To be fair, no, it doesn't happen in America. Not like how it did in Soviet Russia. I'm not talking about being not invited to conferences and not having your papers published, I'm talking about research destroyed and buildings burned, plus the imprisonment and death.

    Genetics research, worldwide, is decades behind what it should be, because Lysekno didn't like research being done that was contrary to his own (entirely incorrect) theories and brought the hammer down on it.

  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Magus` wrote: »
    I assume at least one of Cruz's parents were US citizens?

    Yep. His case is less obvious than Obama or McCain, but he's a natural born citizen.

    'Natural born' is not so obvious. Nobody has yet to settle what that means. But he is a citizen by birth and generally that means he's a naturalised citizen.

    I'll say it again: I have no issue with allowing him, as a citizen by birth, to run for president. But whether that makes him 'natural born' or not is still up in the air.

    You're muckin' with a G!

    Do not engage the Watermelons.
  • NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    Natural born citizen.
    a citizen who was born without c section?

  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    It is the equivalent of calling Bobby Jindal "Piyush" or taking the time to always say "Hussein" in Barack Hussein Obama.

    Well, it depends on who's doing it. If Cruz had some lifelong friend and called him 'Rafa', then whatever. In this case, it's pretty much Trump trying to drive in the knife to remind people that not only was he born in Canada and held dual-citizenship, but that his real given first name is so damned foreign. Almost Mexican, if you catch his drift.

    Trump's just paddling his douchecanoe like a champ.

    You're muckin' with a G!

    Do not engage the Watermelons.
  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    that would only make sense if smart people, or people with whatever desirable hereditary characteristic, were more likely to die in the world wars than dumb people

    Tangential:
    Barbarossa disproportionately killed a very large number of Russian men; this was then further compounded by a widespread alcoholism epidemic that also disproportionately impacted Russian men.

    While the actual population impacts from these events have probably worked themselves out by now, the fallout for families & cultural outlook on what it means to be a man in Russia hasn't. The kind of terrible but in many ways understandable outlook for women in Russia as a result is that marrying a guy within the country is a dead end, and that real prospects for a family & future need to be sought-out elsewhere.

    This has had a significant effect in terms of the number of women emigrating from Russia to the west & the Ukraine and the overall birth rate within Russia (which is probably going to create further family structure & population gender parity issues in the future).

    :|

    With Love and Courage
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    Natural born citizen.
    a citizen who was born without c section?

    'No man of women borne!'

    You're muckin' with a G!

    Do not engage the Watermelons.
  • MuddypawsMuddypaws Lactodorum, UKRegistered User regular
    I'd love to see Hilary plunging a sword into the face of the GOP nominee while yelling "I am no DINO"

  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Lay on, MacDuff, and damned be him who first cries 'Yuuuuuge!'

    You're muckin' with a G!

    Do not engage the Watermelons.
This discussion has been closed.