Fine, I'll make a [Captain America: Civil War] thread (CONTAINS OPEN SPOILERS)

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  • WearingglassesWearingglasses Of the friendly neighborhood variety Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    Let's see... *TOTAL SPOILERS, don't click if you haven't watched the movie yet*
    Ant-Man, hilarious. "This guy just went inside me"
    Spider-Man, also hilarious. "So do you guys know this really old movie called Empire Strikes back?"
    Black Panther, friggin' badass. And I like his female bodyguard, who eyed Black Widow one time, and said "Move, or you will be moved."
    Falcon actually got most of the quips this time.
    Vision probably had the least screen time, but his lines were pretty heavy. Specially that "causality" bit that I can't quite remember fully.
    RDJ and Evans were on point - their performance really brought the weight of the conflict between the two sides.

    I like that the director opted to sneak in Stark's parents' death in the first third, inside his "establishing scene" as a philanthropist speaking in front of an MIT audience. That one time is enough to give us a good twist near the end.

    The whole goddamn airport scene. Team up combos all up the wahzoo. Pure unadulterated fanservice.

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  • VivixenneVivixenne Remember your training, and we'll get through this just fine. Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    Spidey
    It makes perfect fucking sense that Tony is the one who brings him into the fold.

    Dude is a smart, young inventor who wants to do good. He's also an orphan, just like Tony. Has a hot aunt. The entire scene in his apartment is just fantastic cuz he cottons on to Tony's play almost immediately and goes wit it. The movie doesn't dwell on this but when I thought about it I was like OMG YES THIS IS PERFECT MORE PLEASE.

    And yeah, everything about his portrayal was awesome. Can't wait for Homecoming.

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  • VivixenneVivixenne Remember your training, and we'll get through this just fine. Registered User regular
    Also this is not a spoiler: Spidey's suit looks SO GOOD on the big screen.

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  • FearghaillFearghaill If there is nothing but what we make in this world let us make goodRegistered User regular
    Vivixenne wrote: »
    Spidey
    It makes perfect fucking sense that Tony is the one who brings him into the fold.

    Dude is a smart, young inventor who wants to do good. He's also an orphan, just like Tony. Has a hot aunt. The entire scene in his apartment is just fantastic cuz he cottons on to Tony's play almost immediately and goes wit it. The movie doesn't dwell on this but when I thought about it I was like OMG YES THIS IS PERFECT MORE PLEASE.

    And yeah, everything about his portrayal was awesome. Can't wait for Homecoming.

    I haven't seen the movie yet, but RDJ and Marisa Tomei are both 51, so if they wanted to go ahead and make that a canon romance it would actually be kind of a nice bucking of Hollywood's typical older actor/younger actress trend.

  • TurambarTurambar Avocado at law Registered User regular
    One thing I'm stuck with
    I never thought I'd say this, but I feel really sorry for Tony Stark

    The whole movie is just gut punch after gut punch for him

    Starts with the lady guilting him about her son, goes on to us learning that he and Pepper are seperated

    Then his best friend gets paralyzed by a machine he built

    But he still goes all the way to Siberia, risking jail, to help Steve and Bucky

    Then he learns that Bucky killed his parents, and Steve fucking knew about it

    Then they physically beat him up and leave him stranded alone with all that's happened

    The "So was I" line nearly broke my heart

    Like, I'm legit worried about his mental health after all that

    Poor guy

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  • rhylithrhylith Registered User regular
    Uuuuuugh i want to see this so bad what the hell Disney gimme the movie!

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  • WearingglassesWearingglasses Of the friendly neighborhood variety Registered User regular
    Turambar wrote: »
    One thing I'm stuck with
    I never thought I'd say this, but I feel really sorry for Tony Stark

    The whole movie is just gut punch after gut punch for him

    Starts with the lady guilting him about her son, goes on to us learning that he and Pepper are seperated

    Then his best friend gets paralyzed by a machine he built

    But he still goes all the way to Siberia, risking jail, to help Steve and Bucky

    Then he learns that Bucky killed his parents, and Steve fucking knew about it

    Then they physically beat him up and leave him stranded alone with all that's happened

    The "So was I" line nearly broke my heart

    Like, I'm legit worried about his mental health after all that

    Poor guy
    Man he was furious in the last fight. I wonder where his character's direction is going to in the next movies.

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  • VivixenneVivixenne Remember your training, and we'll get through this just fine. Registered User regular
    Airport scene (don't click if you haven't seen it, in fact I recommend going in as cold as possible for this scene alone)
    I knew Giant Man was gonna make an appearance, and when they started setting up for it I started squeeing in my seat uncontrollably.

    The entire Falcon/Buckey dynamic was just GREAT. Having them fight Spidey together was a great idea and it was kinda funny how both teams had their own smart-mouth quippy insect/arachnid superhero. Everything Paul Rudd delivers while inside Tony was hilarious imho, but it is Paul Rudd so it is impossible for me to be objective there.

    I didn't really like some of the shakey cam filming, especially at the beginning, but I'm glad they didn't overdo it for the airport sequence.

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  • LalaboxLalabox Registered User regular
    yeah it's good

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  • VivixenneVivixenne Remember your training, and we'll get through this just fine. Registered User regular
    I really didn't want the movie to end. When it ended, it was fitting and needed to happen, but I would've happily sat and watched another hour of it.

    A legit criticism from me is (full spoilers)
    Zemo's motivations seem a bit weak and he's almost too clever and cunning. I get that he's ex-intelligence so it makes sense that he is devious like that, but it strikes me as biiiiiiiit over-wrought. Like I get that he's angry and trying to make a point, but it also seemed a bit too savant-like to be believable.

    It does look like he'll be back though so that's a good thing.

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  • WearingglassesWearingglasses Of the friendly neighborhood variety Registered User regular
    Vivixenne wrote: »
    Airport scene (don't click if you haven't seen it, in fact I recommend going in as cold as possible for this scene alone)
    I knew Giant Man was gonna make an appearance, and when they started setting up for it I started squeeing in my seat uncontrollably.

    The entire Falcon/Buckey dynamic was just GREAT. Having them fight Spidey together was a great idea and it was kinda funny how both teams had their own smart-mouth quippy insect/arachnid superhero. Everything Paul Rudd delivers while inside Tony was hilarious imho, but it is Paul Rudd so it is impossible for me to be objective there.

    I didn't really like some of the shakey cam filming, especially at the beginning, but I'm glad they didn't overdo it for the airport sequence.
    "It's your conscience."

    When Bucky notices Spider-man tailing them from above:

    Bucky: "Who is that?"
    Falcon: *grumbling* "Everybody has a gimmick these days!"

    The way Falcon grumbled that line was perfect.

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  • TurambarTurambar Avocado at law Registered User regular
    Vivixenne wrote: »
    I really didn't want the movie to end. When it ended, it was fitting and needed to happen, but I would've happily sat and watched another hour of it.

    A legit criticism from me is (full spoilers)
    Zemo's motivations seem a bit weak and he's almost too clever and cunning. I get that he's ex-intelligence so it makes sense that he is devious like that, but it strikes me as biiiiiiiit over-wrought. Like I get that he's angry and trying to make a point, but it also seemed a bit too savant-like to be believable.

    It does look like he'll be back though so that's a good thing.
    I was really happy that Panther spared Zemo

    I was like "Fuck yeah, these are actually heroes!"

    Panther had a really good arc across the movie

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  • TurambarTurambar Avocado at law Registered User regular
    Speaking of Falcon lines
    The line after Bucky says "You mother's name was Sarah"

    "What does that matter?!" or something

    I totally lost it

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  • VivixenneVivixenne Remember your training, and we'll get through this just fine. Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    Turambar wrote: »
    One thing I'm stuck with
    I never thought I'd say this, but I feel really sorry for Tony Stark

    The whole movie is just gut punch after gut punch for him

    Starts with the lady guilting him about her son, goes on to us learning that he and Pepper are seperated

    Then his best friend gets paralyzed by a machine he built

    But he still goes all the way to Siberia, risking jail, to help Steve and Bucky

    Then he learns that Bucky killed his parents, and Steve fucking knew about it

    Then they physically beat him up and leave him stranded alone with all that's happened

    The "So was I" line nearly broke my heart

    Like, I'm legit worried about his mental health after all that

    Poor guy
    Man he was furious in the last fight. I wonder where his character's direction is going to in the next movies.
    Blake didn't find his actions in the final fight to be very believable, but I totally disagree. For the exact reasons listed by you guys, it totally makes sense that a betrayal from the paragon of goodness - for whom he was preparing to potentially admit fault! - is the thing that tips him over the edge.

    In particular, he lashes out like a petulant child - makes sense given the trauma that is alluded to at the beginning of the movie. He's just hitting for hitting's sake, it just so happens that he can easily justify hitting the two guys in the room with him, who are hitting him back, so he keeps on hitting back. It felt real and grounded to me.

    The second you see the car in the prologue scene I called it as the Starks'. I almost wish I hadn't tho, cuz it definitely took some of the impact of the final reveal away.

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  • VivixenneVivixenne Remember your training, and we'll get through this just fine. Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    Turambar wrote: »
    Vivixenne wrote: »
    I really didn't want the movie to end. When it ended, it was fitting and needed to happen, but I would've happily sat and watched another hour of it.

    A legit criticism from me is (full spoilers)
    Zemo's motivations seem a bit weak and he's almost too clever and cunning. I get that he's ex-intelligence so it makes sense that he is devious like that, but it strikes me as biiiiiiiit over-wrought. Like I get that he's angry and trying to make a point, but it also seemed a bit too savant-like to be believable.

    It does look like he'll be back though so that's a good thing.
    I was really happy that Panther spared Zemo

    I was like "Fuck yeah, these are actually heroes!"

    Panther had a really good arc across the movie
    "The living are not done with you yet" is the most fucking T'Challa line ever. And his entire arc was perfect in terms of introducing and developing him as an Avenger. Prince to King. Someone who can indulge in vengeful motivations to someone who can't and now has to consider the bigger picture, and demand better from himself. So good.

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  • rhylithrhylith Registered User regular
    Turambar wrote: »
    Speaking of Falcon lines
    The line after Bucky says "You mother's name was Sarah"

    "What does that matter?!" or something

    I totally lost it

    Ok I clicked this spoiler by accident and I gotta get out of this thread but
    That might be the sickest unintentional burn I've ever heard. I mean unless someone had the bvs script or they added the line last month they never could have known...but it gets right to the core of why marvel gets it and Warner doesn't

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  • Blake TBlake T Registered User regular
    Question, this isn't really a spoilery thing but if you wanna get into specifics in your answer I'm fine with your spoiling stuff in spoiler tags

    One of the reviews I read, the review that got me most excited, was that by the end of the film when things go down the movie has established the sense that both characters are pretty equal amounts of "right," and that it's not really like the comic where one side's view is going to end up undercut with dick moves to make you want to side with the other

    Is that true?

    Ideally, I would leave the theater conflicted on the central issues of the film

    I see stark's motivations (and all the 'bad' people in general actually) as being super weak. What motivates stark to begin with is contrived, and the kicker kind of throws directly into the face of age of ultron.

    I like the movie, but the antagonists were not well developed.

  • VivixenneVivixenne Remember your training, and we'll get through this just fine. Registered User regular
    Oh another criticism, plot-wise:
    Bucky going back into the ice struck me as a bit janky. I get that he and Vision are on opposing sides but why can't Vision just use the Mind Gem to wipe the programming? The answer is seriously RIGHT THERE.

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  • WearingglassesWearingglasses Of the friendly neighborhood variety Registered User regular
    Vivixenne wrote: »
    Oh another criticism, plot-wise:
    Bucky going back into the ice struck me as a bit janky. I get that he and Vision are on opposing sides but why can't Vision just use the Mind Gem to wipe the programming? The answer is seriously RIGHT THERE.
    Vision did mention that he's still learning about the gem on his head, or something. During his talk with Wanda in the kitchen. Has he done any mind-things with the gem before?

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  • VivixenneVivixenne Remember your training, and we'll get through this just fine. Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    Question, this isn't really a spoilery thing but if you wanna get into specifics in your answer I'm fine with your spoiling stuff in spoiler tags

    One of the reviews I read, the review that got me most excited, was that by the end of the film when things go down the movie has established the sense that both characters are pretty equal amounts of "right," and that it's not really like the comic where one side's view is going to end up undercut with dick moves to make you want to side with the other

    Is that true?

    Ideally, I would leave the theater conflicted on the central issues of the film

    Kind of. Morally, there is no clear right or wrong stance. The movie handles that well at the start but it gets convoluted by plot stuff.
    Tony starts out as making the most sense but over time you see 2 people kind of "defect" to Steve's side, so you get the sense that his is the probably message they're trying to sell. There are also more characters that come right out and say why a stance like Steve's is more justified (Sharon, Clint, and even Peter). But in the end, both sides do have a point. It just gets lost in the plot stuff, because Tony was also making decisions based on faulty information, but it doesn't make him wrong.

    The core message is that nations/groups/systems and even individuals fall to internal discourse. It's a clear commentary on the state of the world at the moment; entities can persist in the face of outside interference but are vulnerable to conflict within.

    Steve is the uncompromising moral ideal while Tony is the pragmatic solution. As it should be, as it fits their comic book counterparts too.

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  • VivixenneVivixenne Remember your training, and we'll get through this just fine. Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    Vivixenne wrote: »
    Oh another criticism, plot-wise:
    Bucky going back into the ice struck me as a bit janky. I get that he and Vision are on opposing sides but why can't Vision just use the Mind Gem to wipe the programming? The answer is seriously RIGHT THERE.
    Vision did mention that he's still learning about the gem on his head, or something. During his talk with Wanda in the kitchen. Has he done any mind-things with the gem before?
    He hasn't, no, but it's still the Mind Gem and I feel like all the Avengers already know it. Clint doubly so.

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  • WassermeloneWassermelone Registered User regular
    That was a really good movie

    Lots to unpack there in my head. But also sorta not - just super solid everything

    Both Civil War and BvS spoilers
    I have to wonder if Falcon's line about being unsure about trusting Bucky because he knew stuff about Steve's mom was a dig at the whole 'Martha' thing in BvS. I mean it would have required a really recent reshoot, but it seems so much like a dig

  • ChincymcchillaChincymcchilla Registered User regular
    Just read a synopsis and unless the film drastically colors the actual plot points
    steve seems like a complete ass and nearly a straight up villain

    This is why I don't like hero v hero, they never actually make both sides equal

    Will still be going to see it

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  • David_TDavid_T A fashion yes-man is no good to me. Copenhagen, DenmarkRegistered User regular
    edited April 2016
    This is the most comic book-ass comic book movie in the best way possible. This is the closest they've ever been to characters jumping off the page.
    They took so much from comics and made it work. The human bomb from Civil War, Tony being confronted by a grieving mother, the goddamn "plant yourself like a tree" speech.

    And just the action, the way they moved, the shield... Spidey was right, that thing does not obey the laws of physics.

    Favorite little moment, when Cap and Sharon kiss and Cap looks back at the car, just the look on Falcon and Buckys faces.

    Man it's good. I ended up sitting a tad too close to the screen so I guess I have to go see it again. You know, to get the proper movie going experience.

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  • VivixenneVivixenne Remember your training, and we'll get through this just fine. Registered User regular
    Just read a synopsis and unless the film drastically colors the actual plot points
    steve seems like a complete ass and nearly a straight up villain

    This is why I don't like hero v hero, they never actually make both sides equal

    Will still be going to see it

    Whaaaaaaaat. That makes no sense at all.

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  • ChincymcchillaChincymcchilla Registered User regular
    Vivixenne wrote: »
    Just read a synopsis and unless the film drastically colors the actual plot points
    steve seems like a complete ass and nearly a straight up villain

    This is why I don't like hero v hero, they never actually make both sides equal

    Will still be going to see it

    Whaaaaaaaat. That makes no sense at all.
    Steve's entire arc has been about how he doesn't think people should keep secrets and leverage/power over others

    In Avengers 1 its shield and the tesseract, in Cap 2 its shield and the helicarriers, in avengers 2 its tony and the AI stuff

    But apparently he just thinks that only he should keep secrets, noone else can be trusted

    he comes across as an amazing hypocrite and gets a hero paralyzed because he is keeping secrets about bucky and tony's parents, then he beats the shit out of tony for trying to place them under the same kind of oversight that he spent 3 movies arguing that the people should have over those in power

    "noone should keep secrets but me" is not a heroic stance

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  • VivixenneVivixenne Remember your training, and we'll get through this just fine. Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    I'm confused as to what secret he is keeping, then.

    Edit: oh oops re-read your post

    I see the point being made but I didn't pick up on that in the movie at all.
    Also that secret has nothing to do with why a person gets paralyzed

    And he acknowledges at the end of the movie that he got sucked into making that mistake

    Which I get kinda backs up why Tony's stance has credence?

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  • ChincymcchillaChincymcchilla Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    Vivixenne wrote: »
    I'm confused as to what secret he is keeping, then.

    Edit: oh oops re-read your post

    I see the point being made but I didn't pick up on that in the movie at all.
    Also that secret has nothing to do with why a person gets paralyzed

    Its possible that just reading the actual things that happen is very different than the tone of the film, but it really really looks that way to me as an outsider

    We'll see in a week I guess

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  • WassermeloneWassermelone Registered User regular
    Vivixenne wrote: »
    Just read a synopsis and unless the film drastically colors the actual plot points
    steve seems like a complete ass and nearly a straight up villain

    This is why I don't like hero v hero, they never actually make both sides equal

    Will still be going to see it

    Whaaaaaaaat. That makes no sense at all.
    Steve's entire arc has been about how he doesn't think people should keep secrets and leverage/power over others

    In Avengers 1 its shield and the tesseract, in Cap 2 its shield and the helicarriers, in avengers 2 its tony and the AI stuff

    But apparently he just thinks that only he should keep secrets, noone else can be trusted

    he comes across as an amazing hypocrite and gets a hero paralyzed because he is keeping secrets about bucky and tony's parents, then he beats the shit out of tony for trying to place them under the same kind of oversight that he spent 3 movies arguing that the people should have over those in power

    "noone should keep secrets but me" is not a heroic stance
    Steve didnt get anyone paralyzed. That's on Vision. Considering what the shot did to Warmachine's suit, its not like it was going to just tickle the Falcon. Steve's not to blame that Vision was practically shooting to kill while he was distracted.

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  • ChincymcchillaChincymcchilla Registered User regular
    Vivixenne wrote: »
    Just read a synopsis and unless the film drastically colors the actual plot points
    steve seems like a complete ass and nearly a straight up villain

    This is why I don't like hero v hero, they never actually make both sides equal

    Will still be going to see it

    Whaaaaaaaat. That makes no sense at all.
    Steve's entire arc has been about how he doesn't think people should keep secrets and leverage/power over others

    In Avengers 1 its shield and the tesseract, in Cap 2 its shield and the helicarriers, in avengers 2 its tony and the AI stuff

    But apparently he just thinks that only he should keep secrets, noone else can be trusted

    he comes across as an amazing hypocrite and gets a hero paralyzed because he is keeping secrets about bucky and tony's parents, then he beats the shit out of tony for trying to place them under the same kind of oversight that he spent 3 movies arguing that the people should have over those in power

    "noone should keep secrets but me" is not a heroic stance
    Steve didnt get anyone paralyzed. That's on Vision. Considering what the shot did to Warmachine's suit, its not like it was going to just tickle the Falcon. Steve's not to blame that Vision was practically shooting to kill while he was distracted.
    Steve caused the situation

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  • WassermeloneWassermelone Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    Vivixenne wrote: »
    Just read a synopsis and unless the film drastically colors the actual plot points
    steve seems like a complete ass and nearly a straight up villain

    This is why I don't like hero v hero, they never actually make both sides equal

    Will still be going to see it

    Whaaaaaaaat. That makes no sense at all.
    Steve's entire arc has been about how he doesn't think people should keep secrets and leverage/power over others

    In Avengers 1 its shield and the tesseract, in Cap 2 its shield and the helicarriers, in avengers 2 its tony and the AI stuff

    But apparently he just thinks that only he should keep secrets, noone else can be trusted

    he comes across as an amazing hypocrite and gets a hero paralyzed because he is keeping secrets about bucky and tony's parents, then he beats the shit out of tony for trying to place them under the same kind of oversight that he spent 3 movies arguing that the people should have over those in power

    "noone should keep secrets but me" is not a heroic stance
    Steve didnt get anyone paralyzed. That's on Vision. Considering what the shot did to Warmachine's suit, its not like it was going to just tickle the Falcon. Steve's not to blame that Vision was practically shooting to kill while he was distracted.
    Steve caused the situation
    That seems awfully reductive - and it still comes down to the Vision's choice to take a barely less than lethal shot. Its only sad to Tony because it hit the wrong person. I'm just not seeing how its Steve's fault here. The fight was escalated by both sides (originally started by Spiderman under Tony's direction after he wouldn't listen to Steve), but ultimately only one person fired that beam with that amount of power.

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  • VivixenneVivixenne Remember your training, and we'll get through this just fine. Registered User regular
    Vivixenne wrote: »
    Just read a synopsis and unless the film drastically colors the actual plot points
    steve seems like a complete ass and nearly a straight up villain

    This is why I don't like hero v hero, they never actually make both sides equal

    Will still be going to see it

    Whaaaaaaaat. That makes no sense at all.
    Steve's entire arc has been about how he doesn't think people should keep secrets and leverage/power over others

    In Avengers 1 its shield and the tesseract, in Cap 2 its shield and the helicarriers, in avengers 2 its tony and the AI stuff

    But apparently he just thinks that only he should keep secrets, noone else can be trusted

    he comes across as an amazing hypocrite and gets a hero paralyzed because he is keeping secrets about bucky and tony's parents, then he beats the shit out of tony for trying to place them under the same kind of oversight that he spent 3 movies arguing that the people should have over those in power

    "noone should keep secrets but me" is not a heroic stance
    Steve didnt get anyone paralyzed. That's on Vision. Considering what the shot did to Warmachine's suit, its not like it was going to just tickle the Falcon. Steve's not to blame that Vision was practically shooting to kill while he was distracted.
    Steve caused the situation

    Nah. That's not really true at all. The conflict between the two sides did. Steve doesn't have sole ownership of that by a long shot.

    If you could argue that he does, but that'd be firmly from someone who agrees that Tony's way is the right or better way.
    There's a fair argument for that fight being as much Tony's fault as Steve's, because Tony is acting on false information and refused to listen when attempts were made to challenge it.

    You could argue that Tony was just following orders per the Accords, but then Tony leads the signing of the Accords which means he is defaulting to the judgement of parties who were also acting on falsified information and who did not properly investigate the incident. That actually would prove Steve's point.

    They take off to Siberia on their own precisely BECAUSE Tony and the folks in charge wouldn't even give Steve the chance to explain or investigate further.

    Zemo had to hand them the frame-up job himself.

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  • VivixenneVivixenne Remember your training, and we'll get through this just fine. Registered User regular
    And yeah at that stage you could argue that this was all Fury's fault for putting the Avengers together in the first place.

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  • SkuntySkunty Registered User regular
    Haven't read any of the thread in the hope I can go in as blind as possible, off to a triple bill of first avenger, winter soldier and civil war shortly then I'll gleefully wade in!

  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    In general hero vs. hero stories are terrible. Because A: the cause of the misunderstanding is inevitably stupid. B: It's usually done to boost sales, not to tell a good story. C: It will all get reset eventually anyway, at which point said "heroes" look like colossal jackasses anyway.

    I like the Marvel movie universe, because they're able to distill the essence of what made the original stories work, while taking the stupid out of them.

    I mean, Civil War was pretty stupid. Good idea, really bad execution.

    manwiththemachinegun on
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  • Corporal CarlCorporal Carl Registered User regular
    What an awesome movie!

    Spider-Man was amazing!
    Black Panther was awesome and cool!
    I loved Scarlet Witch!
    Interactions between Bucky and Falcon were great (and Falcon was cool as hell)

    The only minor quibble I have with the movie is the shaky cam stuff in the beginning.

    Loved it!

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  • TurambarTurambar Avocado at law Registered User regular
    Just read a synopsis and unless the film drastically colors the actual plot points
    steve seems like a complete ass and nearly a straight up villain

    This is why I don't like hero v hero, they never actually make both sides equal

    Will still be going to see it

    Well, we just had Blake saying the opposite

    Some people might say it's one sided, but I think they did a much better job in this movie than in any of the similar comic events at making the sides equal

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  • VivixenneVivixenne Remember your training, and we'll get through this just fine. Registered User regular
    Turambar wrote: »
    Just read a synopsis and unless the film drastically colors the actual plot points
    steve seems like a complete ass and nearly a straight up villain

    This is why I don't like hero v hero, they never actually make both sides equal

    Will still be going to see it

    Well, we just had Blake saying the opposite

    Some people might say it's one sided, but I think they did a much better job in this movie than in any of the similar comic events at making the sides equal

    Ending spoilers
    The ending feels less than satisfying for this very reason, actually. It's not tied up neatly with a bow, it's left uncertain and open with neither side emerging the winner.

    As uncomfortable as I was with the lack of tidy conclusion, I think that was the point.

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  • TurambarTurambar Avocado at law Registered User regular
    Yeah
    The fighting is over but it feels like the conflict has just started

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  • TurambarTurambar Avocado at law Registered User regular
    Infinity War speculation
    If Steve ends up dying I can already feel that's gonna be emotional as hell for Tony

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