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[System Shock] REMAKE IS OUT NOW ( May 30 2023)

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    edited June 2023
    NEO|Phyte wrote: »
    Commander Zoom wrote: »
    NEO|Phyte wrote: »
    Thoughts on the ending sequence in the remake:
    I was unsure of what they were going to do with the final cyberspace section, given that the original was a kind of boring fire your programs at her digital representation while she jumbles your controls and slowly takes over your screen, and I feel like what they ended up going with was rather dumb. You still enter a cyber landscape, but under FPS controls rather than the 6DoF every other cyberspace controls as. You pick up a digital gun, get a little bit of a monologue from shodan, and then shoot at some cyber enemies in between shooting at the floating three-prong Tower thing that represents shodan. There doesn't seem to be any risk of actual failure at this point, if you fall over you respawn at a nearby pad in cyberspace with no apparent penalty.

    I do not remember if the original system shock went into detail on what happens to shodan when you win, the remake makes it pretty explicit that you reshackle her.
    It did not; I would have assumed she was destroyed, but then she turns up again (somehow) in the sequel.
    the sequel does explain how you get shodan again: she had a chunk of herself on the grove you eject. Not her full grand intellect, but enough of her to survive and cause trouble once she gets found.
    Yes, the grove that was apparently ejected at one quarter the speed of light, and aimed directly at Tau Ceti. :|

    Commander Zoom on
  • ZamZam Registered User regular
    Commander Zoom wrote: »
    NEO|Phyte wrote: »
    the sequel does explain how you get shodan again: she had a chunk of herself on the grove you eject. Not her full grand intellect, but enough of her to survive and cause trouble once she gets found.
    Yes, the grove that was apparently ejected at one quarter the speed of light, and aimed directly at Tau Ceti. :|

    The remake tries to patch that.
    There's a log where someone says they've discovered a wormhole nearby. Presumably beta grove goes through that.

    As far as what happens to Shodan at the end of the original, the only clue is in the first 6 seconds or so of the end cinematic.
    There's a monitor that shows her cyberspace representation reverting to its original form, with all the crud that attached to it after the hack flying off again.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQFpU44nk_c

  • NEO|PhyteNEO|Phyte They follow the stars, bound together. Strands in a braid till the end.Registered User regular
    edited June 2023
    Part of me wants to start up another run to correct a grave misjustice* the game did to me, but also where the original doesn't have character stats like 2 it'd just be the same thing again but more streamlined since Im not stumbling around on aged memories of the original.

    *Late-game happenings
    I had piled up all my not in active use guns in the elevator before heading to Security, and then once I had the level cleaned up and ready to move on, I discovered that the door to the elevator room is one-way, so I only had the guns I was carrying and what was laying around in the level. Which, in fairness, did include a railgun and the plasma rifle.

    NEO|Phyte on
    It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
    Warframe/Steam: NFyt
  • BigityBigity Lubbock, TXRegistered User regular
    Is it just me or could this game use a little bit more improvement on telling you what you are supposed to be doing? I mean, yea it's in the audio files and such, but if I don't play for a few days I'm not going to remember.

  • NEO|PhyteNEO|Phyte They follow the stars, bound together. Strands in a braid till the end.Registered User regular
    Oh it definitely sticks to the old ways of hope you are taking notes or have a solid memory. I think it sounds like the lower difficulties have a bit of waypointing, but I stuck to defaults on my run.

    It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
    Warframe/Steam: NFyt
  • BigityBigity Lubbock, TXRegistered User regular
    NEO|Phyte wrote: »
    Oh it definitely sticks to the old ways of hope you are taking notes or have a solid memory. I think it sounds like the lower difficulties have a bit of waypointing, but I stuck to defaults on my run.

    Same. Maybe I'll start a notepad file heh.

  • Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    You can actually get yourself a non-standard game over if you are me and just love pushing buttons without checking what the buttons actually do
    yea I laser'd the earth on accident

    https://steamcommunity.com/id/TealDeer
  • NEO|PhyteNEO|Phyte They follow the stars, bound together. Strands in a braid till the end.Registered User regular
    Lucid_Seraph wrote: »
    You can actually get yourself a non-standard game over if you are me and just love pushing buttons without checking what the buttons actually do
    yea I laser'd the earth on accident

    I figured that was still in there, nice to have it confirmed.

    Relatedly, post-victory, I still have two hidden achievements. I figure one is for said non-standard game over, do we have any idea what the second might be?

    It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
    Warframe/Steam: NFyt
  • StormwatcherStormwatcher Blegh BlughRegistered User regular
    i did that one on purpose, i never forgot that part from the original :D

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  • HedgethornHedgethorn Associate Professor of Historical Hobby Horses In the Lions' DenRegistered User regular
    As a huge fan of System Shock 2, I've tried playing the original a half dozen times or more over the years, but could just not make any headway with the control scheme, even when modded to allow mouse support or whatever else.

    With this remake, I've now finally made it out of medical for the first time in my life. I had no idea how sprawling these levels were going to be. Looking forward to where this journey will take me next.

  • HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    VoodooV wrote: »
    You guys seeing the same steam achievement stats I'm seeing? That only .6 percent of players have even left the first room?

    I'm one of those

    I fired it up to see how it was and then Diablo IV happened :tongue:

  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    HappylilElf wrote: »
    VoodooV wrote: »
    You guys seeing the same steam achievement stats I'm seeing? That only .6 percent of players have even left the first room?

    I'm one of those

    I fired it up to see how it was and then Diablo IV happened :tongue:

    now that you mention it, I checked the stats again and they've jumped dramatically. Now it's 89.7 percent that have left the first room.

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  • Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    edited June 2023
    Arggh, I'm kinda stuck in the Storage level. Can't quite figure out how to beat Room 5's weird puzzle, also can't figure out where the last stupid security camera is.


    *edit* made it out thanks to some internets hints. Now I have many guns and am going "ah, so, endgame is inventory m anagement innit"

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  • UselesswarriorUselesswarrior Registered User regular
    They are very stingy with the inventory space.

    I just wish they expanded the cargo lift, it’s ultimately a convenience feature so you don’t have to remember where you dropped that modded weapon/manual cart things between elevators, but I think they erred on the side of being conservative with it.

    Hey I made a game, check it out @ http://ifallingrobot.com/. (Or don't, your call)
  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    Uselesswarrior wrote: »
    They are very stingy with the inventory space.

    I just wish they expanded the cargo lift, it’s ultimately a convenience feature so you don’t have to remember where you dropped that modded weapon/manual cart things between elevators, but I think they erred on the side of being conservative with it.

    they made odd little choices like that..oh hey, here's this nice convenience, but we're going to be real stingy with it so it only marginally helps. You can expand your inventory space...but not enough to really make a huge difference because mods tend to make the modded item bigger too. Another example, damaged assault rifles are too big to fit into the recycler....so even though you can hover over a damaged assault rifle and it says you'll get so much credit for recycling it....well too bad I guess.

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  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    Am I missing where the cybercombat pulsar upgrades are at? I'm on the executive level and I'm still on level 1 pulsar and cybercombat is getting more and more nuts. IIRC, I found a 2nd pulsar icon in the first cyberspace in medical but it didn't give me v2

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  • NEO|PhyteNEO|Phyte They follow the stars, bound together. Strands in a braid till the end.Registered User regular
    VoodooV wrote: »
    Am I missing where the cybercombat pulsar upgrades are at? I'm on the executive level and I'm still on level 1 pulsar and cybercombat is getting more and more nuts. IIRC, I found a 2nd pulsar icon in the first cyberspace in medical but it didn't give me v2

    I don't think your cyber tools have levels anymore, once you have it, you have it. And yeah some of the fights get kind of intense.

    It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
    Warframe/Steam: NFyt
  • Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    VoodooV wrote: »
    Am I missing where the cybercombat pulsar upgrades are at? I'm on the executive level and I'm still on level 1 pulsar and cybercombat is getting more and more nuts. IIRC, I found a 2nd pulsar icon in the first cyberspace in medical but it didn't give me v2

    Yeah I'm having trouble on Executive as well; Cyberspace I left on Normal difficulty and I am suffering

    https://steamcommunity.com/id/TealDeer
  • NEO|PhyteNEO|Phyte They follow the stars, bound together. Strands in a braid till the end.Registered User regular
    From my time in the cybers, it feels like the two big pain enemies are the guys that ram you (mostly if they get outside your FoV and start coming in from behind) and the shuriken guys, everyone else seems really bad at actually doing damage if you're making any sort of effort.

    It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
    Warframe/Steam: NFyt
  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    I finally did get past the executive level cyberspace through heavy use of that turbo speed upgrade and actually backing up a lot and firing at range. What pissed me off enough to make my last post was that I ended up getting through that only to die again on the last tunnel filled with a bunch of mines. Of course the biggest pain point is that you can't save in cyberspace, if you mess up you gotta start over from the beginning, But I realized you could hold S to move backward which slowed you down as you got forced through the tunnel, giving you enough time to either dodge or shoot the mines.

    I am starting to get frustrated with the game and ready to finish it and move on. Cyberspace being annoying, inventory space being so restrictive. Just got the rail gun and ion pulse rifle and of course, not enough ammo or space in inventory to use them. Meanwhile, thanks to the addition of mods, all my older weapons are beefed up and ammo has been saved up. The sparse nature of healing gets frustrating too. backtracking is fine, but going back multiple floors just to heal gets tiresome. All that upgraded cyberware gets unused a lot because of the battery drain or simply doesn't have that much use to begin with. When I got Target Identifier v3, I tried to hack an exec bot....took forever to even figure out how to do that hack but even when I did hack it, the hack drained energy and it just said "scrambled" for a few seconds, but then went back to normal and just attacked me again....so again I find myself asking what's the point of this?

    On one hand, this game is a master class in how to play extremely conservatively and hoarding resources....but ugh. I vaguely remember being frustrated by some of this back in the 90s when I beat the original...but now, I'm just ready for it to be over.

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  • UselesswarriorUselesswarrior Registered User regular
    Beta groove is rough from a design perspective. Suddenly all those resources you have a stockpile of have a use, but by that point the game has been sending a signal to players to not stockpile resources because of the limited inventory space.

    Hey I made a game, check it out @ http://ifallingrobot.com/. (Or don't, your call)
  • Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    I wish there was a way to tick down the difficulty *during the game* and that it didn't require starting a new save every time. There's a lot of cases where you don't realize that something's going to be way beyond your skill level until much later on.

    https://steamcommunity.com/id/TealDeer
  • UselesswarriorUselesswarrior Registered User regular
    edited June 2023
    I appreciate the system shock 2 design of having a central elevator more and more as I cart my stash from elevator to elevator.

    Also, initially the design of these levels felt like that style of From games, where the sprawling level stays manageable due to shortcuts and paths that loop back being unlocked. At someone point the game moves away from that and it is to the detriment of the design.

    Basically a big FU to the executive level.

    Uselesswarrior on
    Hey I made a game, check it out @ http://ifallingrobot.com/. (Or don't, your call)
  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    edited June 2023
    Thing is though, aside from a few things, this game really is a faithful recreation of the original...so it's just a testament to how games were designed back in those days of no internet (or extremely early internet since it was '94) and patches were exceedingly rare. If you couldn't figure something out....tough. Based on my hazy recollection of playing the original back in the before times. I'd still say the remake is significantly harder (I kept everything at normal difficulty) Cyberspace is definitely harder than I remember from the original. I do recall there were limited slots for weapons, but IIRC, ammo didn't take up space. As long as you could conserve it, there was no limit. same with grenades and patches too. One minor annoyance is that the remake doesn't sort your inventory for you. IIRC, games like System Shock 2 and even the original Deus Ex did this... as long as you did have enough squares in the inventory, it would auto fit everything for you, but this remake doesn't seem to do that, so it just gets annoying moving stuff around manually.

    I haven't gotten to
    Diego
    yet in the remake but I just don't remember the Executive level being much of an issue. If memory serves, I had been really good about conserving ammo so I was just able to mow that boss down with my strongest guns without holding back. Something tells me that boss fight is going to be tougher here.

    My recollection was that the original was a lot like the original X-Com, which also came out about that time. where the initial stages of the game were the hardest because you had nothing, but as long as you didn't get too unlucky (and I was a loud and proud X-com save game scummer back then), you eventually became pretty OP and the rest of the game was just going through the motions

    VoodooV on
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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    A classic cheese for that boss was to pre-mine the spawn point.

  • ZamZam Registered User regular
    Commander Zoom wrote: »
    A classic cheese for that boss was to pre-mine the spawn point.
    You can still do that in the remake for the escape pod encounter.

  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    And now I have been reminded once more of The Hacker's Guide to Sin
    (heavy, frequently hilarious spoilers for the original)

  • Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    Zam wrote: »
    Commander Zoom wrote: »
    A classic cheese for that boss was to pre-mine the spawn point.
    You can still do that in the remake for the escape pod encounter.
    it also works for the first Cortex Reaver

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  • Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    edited June 2023
    I got so fucking fed up with Central Executive that I tried installing Cheat Engine.

    Big mistaske! this thing expects me to already be a programmer! I do not know shit! stop asking me to do math! Then I tried to install a premade and all it does is crash the game.

    Sincerely thinking of starting over on All EAsy Mode at this point because I just want to do the fucking story god damn it

    *edit* Also setting Story to Easy means that you cannot drop essential items, which on the surface seems great until you realize *how much* of the game is an inventory management puzzle.

    Lucid_Seraph on
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  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    I'm trying to get through beta grove right now just using the biological/radiation shield and not using any meds. It is rather tedious.

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  • NEO|PhyteNEO|Phyte They follow the stars, bound together. Strands in a braid till the end.Registered User regular
    VoodooV wrote: »
    I'm trying to get through beta grove right now just using the biological/radiation shield and not using any meds. It is rather tedious.

    That sounds... unwise, given that even with the shield you're soaking in grossness. Are you respawn diving or savescumming to try and golden path it?

    It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
    Warframe/Steam: NFyt
  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    edited June 2023
    nah just repetitive and conserving of resources. I go to the grove, pop the biohazard shield, go in, explore as much as I can. Already I can see the safety interlock door, just don't know how to get there yet, I can kill a few enemies with my beefed up sparq gun and some cameras, but that of course drains my battery so I need to retreat back to executive, recharge my battery, go back to the reactor level to use the surgery machine....lather rinse repeat. Now yeah if I go through and get my ass handed to me, I reload and try again

    I did watch a video recently of someone doing a speed run of beta grove. I have no intention of doing that, but during that video I did see there was a mod kit station in there so I am trying to get that. The last mod kit I got on the flight deck tapped me out of credits so before I even attempted beta grove, I backtracked and did a recycling run to get my credits back up to snuff

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  • UselesswarriorUselesswarrior Registered User regular
    VoodooV wrote: »
    nah just repetitive and conserving of resources. I go to the grove, pop the biohazard shield, go in, explore as much as I can. Already I can see the safety interlock door, just don't know how to get there yet, I can kill a few enemies with my beefed up sparq gun and some cameras, but that of course drains my battery so I need to retreat back to executive, recharge my battery, go back to the reactor level to use the surgery machine....lather rinse repeat. Now yeah if I go through and get my ass handed to me, I reload and try again

    I did watch a video recently of someone doing a speed run of beta grove. I have no intention of doing that, but during that video I did see there was a mod kit station in there so I am trying to get that. The last mod kit I got on the flight deck tapped me out of credits so before I even attempted beta grove, I backtracked and did a recycling run to get my credits back up to snuff

    The mod kit is actually pretty hard to miss if I remember correctly, it’s
    right by the safety switch

    Hey I made a game, check it out @ http://ifallingrobot.com/. (Or don't, your call)
  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    Uselesswarrior wrote: »
    VoodooV wrote: »
    nah just repetitive and conserving of resources. I go to the grove, pop the biohazard shield, go in, explore as much as I can. Already I can see the safety interlock door, just don't know how to get there yet, I can kill a few enemies with my beefed up sparq gun and some cameras, but that of course drains my battery so I need to retreat back to executive, recharge my battery, go back to the reactor level to use the surgery machine....lather rinse repeat. Now yeah if I go through and get my ass handed to me, I reload and try again

    I did watch a video recently of someone doing a speed run of beta grove. I have no intention of doing that, but during that video I did see there was a mod kit station in there so I am trying to get that. The last mod kit I got on the flight deck tapped me out of credits so before I even attempted beta grove, I backtracked and did a recycling run to get my credits back up to snuff

    The mod kit is actually pretty hard to miss if I remember correctly, it’s
    right by the safety switch

    yeah, apparently I'm blind. After probably a dozen runs, I'm not even sure what I did to activate the force bridge, but I saw that I could get across. As I cross the bridge, I see the modkit icon appear on the map on the other side of the door. I open it and I dunno what the deal was but for whatever reason, I just...don't see it. figure it must be below me or something. I go in further and kill one of the security bots, but it drains my energy enough that I have to retreat. still don't see it on my way out but admittedly I'm rushed. After I recharge and heal up and get ready for another run, I decide I'm starting to get tired of this silliness so I pull up a youtube video that shows where the modkit is...... WTF? how did I miss that?

    I got it...of course it's for a weapon I've only used once.

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  • Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    edited June 2023
    1) turns out NexusMods has some very easy to install mods, and holy shit the one that makes most inventory items 1x1 is a god damn lifesaver. Also installed one that ups Cyberspace damage and adds more dumbwaiter space, and finally a mod that lets scrap & ammo stack up to 999. I'm still playing Inventory Manager 2023 but it's much better

    2) I hate Beta Grove, I should have hoarded batteries, as it stands I'm basically looping through, killing what I can, leaving, recharging my batteries and running back to the Reactor to use the Surgical suite now that I've run out of medkits, and running back :V I'm eventually just gonna run out of medpacks and then Idk what I'll do :(

    *edit* also I lost my modded magpulse somewhere, and I think I found the railgun but couldn't pick it up and now I can't remember where the hell I found it.

    Lucid_Seraph on
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  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    Lucid_Seraph wrote: »
    1) turns out NexusMods has some very easy to install mods, and holy shit the one that makes most inventory items 1x1 is a god damn lifesaver. Also installed one that ups Cyberspace damage and adds more dumbwaiter space, and finally a mod that lets scrap & ammo stack up to 999. I'm still playing Inventory Manager 2023 but it's much better

    2) I hate Beta Grove, I should have hoarded batteries, as it stands I'm basically looping through, killing what I can, leaving, recharging my batteries and running back to the Reactor to use the Surgical suite now that I've run out of medkits, and running back :V I'm eventually just gonna run out of medpacks and then Idk what I'll do :(

    *edit* also I lost my modded magpulse somewhere, and I think I found the railgun but couldn't pick it up and now I can't remember where the hell I found it.

    yes...YESSSSSSS! join the tedious darkside. Together we'll run through corridors, backtracking to the surgical suite and we'll rule Citadel Station!

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  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    Is there any word on the console release of this? Is it still planned?

  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    Prohass wrote: »
    Is there any word on the console release of this? Is it still planned?

    Last kickstarter update says console date hasn't been decided yet.

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  • Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    Finally beat this last night after getting frustrated because of the sudden "Hey, you actually needed to write down all the numbers in all the CPU rooms. Have fun backtracking when there is no central elevator and it's not clear which elevators go to which floor."

    I was on easy mode so I didn't have to wade through piles of mobs to do this, but it also made for a very boring time.

    Wish they warned you in the second to last level (Security) that you can't backtrack. I also wish that it wasn't blaring HEY BRIDGE SEPARATION IMMINENT when as near as I can tell, unless you're on timed mode it, um, isn't. It's scripted to only start when you get to the ladder that leads to the penultimate bossfight. I feel like I missed A LOT of stuff in that area.

    Speaking of missing stuff, I somehow never got the grenade launcher or the plasma rifle, and I got the railgun on Security so I wasn't able to backtrack to pick up the upgrade for it.

    Game is MUCH better when modded to make cyberspace easier and also to spend less time playing inventory shuffle.

    I think the most fun part of the game was when I got to the chess puzzle. I couldn't solve it myself, I suck at chess, but I got my dad to come down and we solved it together, which felt like a very wholesome 90s gaming moment.

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