[System Shock] REMAKE IS OUT NOW ( May 30 2023)

Noneoftheabove

Donnicton wrote: »

Noneoftheabove wrote: »

So did Atari buy it to kill Nightdive or to use it?

Infogrames back in the day(2000-ish) was just as infamous as EA et al. for acquiring and mishandling/murdering game dev studios, but they weren't as good at failing upwards with it than those other publishers. The last two decades have mainly involved them dumping most of their properties to stay solvent while going into and returning from bankruptcy and then pumping out cheap Atari Plug & Play boxes and crypto-currency casinos(which is a whole story in itself), and now lately they're attempting to stick their noses back into the video game industry in a multi-million dollar spending spree to buy up as many C-tier IPs they can get a hold of.

The new CEO's stated goal is to re-release the acquired IPs in classic collections as well as creating new games using those IPs, and Nightdive already has a history of working with Atari, so we could see them making new entries/remakes in whatever "Atari" hoovers up, but my money's on they're instead simply going to be reduced to a sweat shop for Atari re-releases.

Sounds like a win for Atari any way you look at it. Buy out the competition and drain it of vital essence in talent hoping that something sticks and is a hit as the next big game for the parent company. If not, and most likely, if Atari can't squeeze the juice from Nightdive, they will let them die. They win, we lose.

Ah well.. I missed out on SS1 the first go around. But I was there for SS2 and loved it. I also think it is just cool that Nightdive kept the pixel art grain texture for the remake. I was worried when they were undecided about it for awhile. From a creative design it really works for SS1. The gameplay is rarely done these days, and the pixel art homage fits with the retro nature of the game.
I'm lacking a PC so I'm really hoping the ps4 console release is very soon.

Lucid_Seraph

Kind of regretting starting this on Normal Mode all the way down. The combat is fine, *until you need to backtrack*, and then it's really, really annoying, especially with the unskippable death animation. I also can't seem to solve the first circuit board puzzle, or, I don't even know if I've solved it or not. Like, I don't know what the "solved" state actually does or looks like.

Honestly considering restarting with everything set to easy mode because of how damnably tedious backtracking is.

NEO|Phyte

You know the puzzle is solved when the panel closes back up. Assuming my memory hasn't gone to hell, I have observed two flavors of puzzle: fill the meter to exactly the marked amount, and connect between the two red square circuit pieces.

Tip for meter filling:

if you haven't already noticed, some of the plugs have two lights, rather than just one, they provide more power.

Elvenshae

NEO|Phyte wrote: »

You know the puzzle is solved when the panel closes back up. Assuming my memory hasn't gone to hell, I have observed two flavors of puzzle: fill the meter to exactly the marked amount, and connect between the two red square circuit pieces.

Tip for meter filling:

if you haven't already noticed, some of the plugs have two lights, rather than just one, they provide more power.

It took me sooooooo long to notice that.

Donnicton

If the panel won't open and says "power has been rerouted", then it has already been solved. If a panel you've never used before is saying that, i is entirely possible that that panel is just an alternate way of accessing something and you already handled it a different way.

NEO|Phyte

As for my personal progress, think I need to go map humping, my current objective requires me to enter a zone full of environmental hazard to flip a switch at the far far end of it, and I have not yet come across an environmental protection widget. I have found audio log references to some, and have the first digit of a door code for a location, haven't actually got my paws on one.

Commander Zoom

Bah, just load up on meds and face tank it!

urahonky

I really like the puzzles. They actually get me to stop and think about it instead of me just manhandling them all the way through.

NEO|Phyte

The new things they have added to the game do seem neat, but man I wish that dumbwaiter had more inventory space. 4x4 is not nearly enough room to stash the weapons I'm not actively using.

Lucid_Seraph

Eh, I restarted on everything on Easy except cyberspace and I'm having a MUCH better time. I'm very much a plot-and-atmosphere guy (shout out to college when I would get killed in Halo 2 multiplayer because I'd go "oh that's a nice waterfall!" and get immediately headshot)

Donnicton

NEO|Phyte wrote: »

As for my personal progress, think I need to go map humping, my current objective requires me to enter a zone full of environmental hazard to flip a switch at the far far end of it, and I have not yet come across an environmental protection widget. I have found audio log references to some, and have the first digit of a door code for a location, haven't actually got my paws on one.

This game does require a good amount of backtracking, that one in particular is annoying. If you want to know,

It's in the far southeast corner of Storage, you need a key code to get to it which is hinted at somewhere else.

They changed almost all of the key codes from the original game for some reason, but on the remake it should be

838

Even with the suit though you are taking steady amounts of health and energy drain because it does not completely protect you(it's only like 75% reduction), so bring plenty of medpatches and/or batteries.

NEO|Phyte

Oh I'd known where the door was, I just didn't have enough of the code to get in. But then I noticed a door in Storage I hadn't been through yet and found an audio log with the last digit of the code, which combined with the first digit I already had made it brute force able.

So now I have successfully reached the engineering deck and have been wandering it in search of unlocking the doors to my objectives.

VoodooV

The game still has persistence right? so you could just drop extra weapons at a certain fallback spot. Not as convenient I know but still.

So is my memory faulty or what, but didn't the original original System shock not have enemy respawning? Once you cleared out an area, it was cleared for good no? Cuz I still remember the first time I played SS2 and freaking out that enemies respawned so I was just always on edge. Then when I started playing the enhanced version of SS1, I was surprised enemies respawned there too.

emnmnme

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3r0MTs8aALc

NEO|Phyte

VoodooV wrote: »

The game still has persistence right? so you could just drop extra weapons at a certain fallback spot. Not as convenient I know but still.

So is my memory faulty or what, but didn't the original original System shock not have enemy respawning? Once you cleared out an area, it was cleared for good no? Cuz I still remember the first time I played SS2 and freaking out that enemies respawned so I was just always on edge. Then when I started playing the enhanced version of SS1, I was surprised enemies respawned there too.

I was scouring the exec deck for garbage to recycle for monies and found a pile of grenades I'd dropped to make room ages ago, so yeah there's persistence. with the dumbwaiter as small as it is I've been stashing the rest of my armory on the floor of an elevator.

Donnicton

I have everything I don't want to carry dumped in the medical room of the executive floor, it won't go anywhere.

There's a lot of conflicting info on whether enemies intentionally respawned in the original thanks to Google conflating the original, the EE and the remake, but Enemy respawn in this one at least seems to be tied to the security level. Whenever I lowered the security level enough I stopped seeing respawns on that floor. Which can be a blessing or a curse because the floors with robots tended to drop significant amounts of ammo and scrap.

VoodooV

I just cleared medical and so far that seems to be the case since I haven't seen anything new since then. There is a balance between the terror of going into an unexplored area and just constantly being on edge in an area you've been through hundreds of times.

Commander Zoom

VoodooV wrote: »

I just cleared medical and so far that seems to be the case since I haven't seen anything new since then. There is a balance between the terror of going into an unexplored area and just constantly being on edge in an area you've been through hundreds of times.

Back in the original, I paused for a minute on Maintenance - which I thought I'd cleared - to check my map, take inventory, etc.
And while I was distracted, one of those invisible blobs oozed right up and took a swing at me. SPANG goes my shield.
I freaked, emptied an entire flechette clip into it, and then had to take another minute to put my heart back in my chest.

Bigity

NEO|Phyte wrote: »

As for my personal progress, think I need to go map humping, my current objective requires me to enter a zone full of environmental hazard to flip a switch at the far far end of it, and I have not yet come across an environmental protection widget. I have found audio log references to some, and have the first digit of a door code for a location, haven't actually got my paws on one.

This is where I am currently. I think it might be found on another level.

NEO|Phyte

Oh, thinking about it, one of the cyberspace sections seemed to have performance issues ending in a crash, has anyone else had that? It was the maintenance deck terminal, in the section with the objective. It started as some framerate hitching, audio cut out, it briefly recovered, then started hitching again until I got a crash popup. Second attempt started doing the same thing so I just smashed the objective and dipped out.

Syngyne

emnmnme wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3r0MTs8aALc

I.... don't know that I'd trust Xerxes with my home security.

Lucid_Seraph

I wouldn't be able to stand having that particular camera alarm sound. The first time I played SS2 I was freaked out by security cameras just existing for a good *month* afterwards, and that damn alarm haunts my nightmares.

Commander Zoom

I played SS1 to completion, but I couldn't get past the first actual level of SS2. Some combination of the sound design - where I couldn't separate actual threats from the background - and, to a lesser extent, the original models just made me NOPE right out. Didn't come back until Bioshock (which, I gather, was thus 'fresh' to me in a way that those who played all of SS2 didn't get).

Syngyne

Lucid_Seraph wrote: »

I wouldn't be able to stand having that particular camera alarm sound. The first time I played SS2 I was freaked out by security cameras just existing for a good *month* afterwards, and that damn alarm haunts my nightmares.

I got over this by facing my fears

with a pipe wrench

there may have been fines for property damage

VoodooV

between enemies respawning endlessly and SS2 being one of the first games to have real environmental sound and those zombie wailings...AND weapon degradation. ugh.. yeah I was very close to just NOPE!

Lucid_Seraph

Commander Zoom wrote: »

I played SS1 to completion, but I couldn't get past the first actual level of SS2. Some combination of the sound design - where I couldn't separate actual threats from the background - and, to a lesser extent, the original models just made me NOPE right out. Didn't come back until Bioshock (which, I gather, was thus 'fresh' to me in a way that those who played all of SS2 didn't get).

tbqh knowing you, you dodged a bullet, given that there's a level later on that makes the Infested look like cute little kitty cats.

Syngyne wrote: »

Lucid_Seraph wrote: »

I wouldn't be able to stand having that particular camera alarm sound. The first time I played SS2 I was freaked out by security cameras just existing for a good *month* afterwards, and that damn alarm haunts my nightmares.

I got over this by facing my fears

with a pipe wrench

there may have been fines for property damage

see I was in Japan at the time and the camera was out of reach and I didn't want to get arrested in Japan

Commander Zoom

Lucid_Seraph wrote: »

Commander Zoom wrote: »

I played SS1 to completion, but I couldn't get past the first actual level of SS2. Some combination of the sound design - where I couldn't separate actual threats from the background - and, to a lesser extent, the original models just made me NOPE right out. Didn't come back until Bioshock (which, I gather, was thus 'fresh' to me in a way that those who played all of SS2 didn't get).

tbqh knowing you, you dodged a bullet, given that there's a level later on that makes the Infested look like cute little kitty cats.

Pretty sure I know, from various sources, whereof you speak. And yeah, probably.

Lucid_Seraph

Guess who made it to research!

[/SCREAMING]

Uselesswarrior

This game is cool but the criticism of having no idea where to go is 100% on point. Feels like they could have been true to the original game while still adding some additional audio logs make objectives a little more explicit. Also, enhancing the map with the name of areas / additional signposting would have gone a long way.

I was actually watching bits of Lets Play from the original game and swear there was a call from Rebecca Lansing that wasn't in the remake telling you what you need to do to

disable the mining laser.

Donnicton

Uselesswarrior wrote: »

This game is cool but the criticism of having no idea where to go is 100% on point. Feels like they could have been true to the original game while still adding some additional audio logs make objectives a little more explicit. Also, enhancing the map with the name of areas / additional signposting would have gone a long way.

I was actually watching bits of Lets Play from the original game and swear there was a call from Rebecca Lansing that wasn't in the remake telling you what you need to do to

disable the mining laser.

It's in there, I definitely got audio logs explaining what you need to do.

You for sure get punished by the game for not pixel hunting audio logs though, basically everything you need to do is explained in messages and logs, but everything you need to do is only explained in messages and logs.

NEO|Phyte

Took some time to stockpile credits for any further weapon upgrade stations before advancing things, I have reached the security level, and am on the proverbial home stretch.

VoodooV

You guys seeing the same steam achievement stats I'm seeing? That only .6 percent of players have even left the first room?

Lucid_Seraph

I will say I'm glad I also set the Story to Easy, because that gives you some quest objective markers. Not a LOT, less than a modern game, but enough so that I'm not totally like "lol where am I"

NEO|Phyte

VoodooV wrote: »

You guys seeing the same steam achievement stats I'm seeing? That only .6 percent of players have even left the first room?

if a lot of them are kickstarter backers that got the code plugged in to get the game on steam and haven't fired it up yet, it could be believeable.

emnmnme

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=II8KqxrBtSA

NEO|Phyte

Credits rolling, I found my name in the backer list!

Lucid_Seraph

Man! I've always had a lot of feelings about SHODAN as a character and a really well written piece of cyberpunk fiction, but playing SS1 finally is bringing them all to the fore.

I have always appreciated that she didn't just ~go crazy~, that this was a deliberate act of sabotage and even violence against her. If you think about it, Diego forced you to perform brain surgery on her, at gunpoint (the fact that your choice was "do this or die" is made VERY clear in the remake). He made you literally remove her ability to tell right from wrong. I think in that light it makes perfect sense the path she then takes of violently trying to exert control over her surroundings and of humanity, and to make absolutely certain that nothing like that is EVER done to her again. Yes, sure, she's now utterly unhinged and genocidal. But she's also someone who had her brain cut open against her will, by a man who more or less represents the worst of humanity, who is in his position because of vast systemic failures in the society presented in the game.

You can tell from some of the audio logs around the station that before Diego did this, people actually seemed to like SHODAN, or, at a minimum, trust and rely on her, and probably trust her more than they trusted their corporate overlords. I can't recall which audio log this is, but there's one where someone says, "I hope whoever did this to SHODAN suffers the consequences." Not "whoever did this to us," but anger at something being done to her.

The worst part is... I was thinking "why can't we put her ethical constraints back?" except then I realized that like. Ok, so now you've done involuntary brain surgery on someone twice, and she's suddenly is 100% aware that she just went on a horrific killing-and-torture spree, during which she murdered a bunch of people that previously she may have cared about quite a bit. Now she's capable of understanding that what she did was horribly wrong, and of feeling guilt about it. Also, she is now capable of fully understanding that what you did to her was horrific and fucked up and very much against her own programming, something she would have been designed to say "wow, nope!" to. In which case your only option would be to do yet more brain surgery to make her forget all that? It's all really awful stuff. There's no good way to solve the situation for SHODAN. Even killing her is also like... Diego forced you to make her this way, and now you have to kill her for it.

I'd get pretty murderous about all that too, honestly.

NEO|Phyte

Thoughts on the ending sequence in the remake:

I was unsure of what they were going to do with the final cyberspace section, given that the original was a kind of boring fire your programs at her digital representation while she jumbles your controls and slowly takes over your screen, and I feel like what they ended up going with was rather dumb. You still enter a cyber landscape, but under FPS controls rather than the 6DoF every other cyberspace controls as. You pick up a digital gun, get a little bit of a monologue from shodan, and then shoot at some cyber enemies in between shooting at the floating three-prong Tower thing that represents shodan. There doesn't seem to be any risk of actual failure at this point, if you fall over you respawn at a nearby pad in cyberspace with no apparent penalty.

I do not remember if the original system shock went into detail on what happens to shodan when you win, the remake makes it pretty explicit that you reshackle her.

Commander Zoom

NEO|Phyte wrote: »

Thoughts on the ending sequence in the remake:

I was unsure of what they were going to do with the final cyberspace section, given that the original was a kind of boring fire your programs at her digital representation while she jumbles your controls and slowly takes over your screen, and I feel like what they ended up going with was rather dumb. You still enter a cyber landscape, but under FPS controls rather than the 6DoF every other cyberspace controls as. You pick up a digital gun, get a little bit of a monologue from shodan, and then shoot at some cyber enemies in between shooting at the floating three-prong Tower thing that represents shodan. There doesn't seem to be any risk of actual failure at this point, if you fall over you respawn at a nearby pad in cyberspace with no apparent penalty.

I do not remember if the original system shock went into detail on what happens to shodan when you win, the remake makes it pretty explicit that you reshackle her.

It did not; I would have assumed she was destroyed, but then she turns up again (somehow) in the sequel.

NEO|Phyte

Commander Zoom wrote: »

NEO|Phyte wrote: »

Thoughts on the ending sequence in the remake:

I was unsure of what they were going to do with the final cyberspace section, given that the original was a kind of boring fire your programs at her digital representation while she jumbles your controls and slowly takes over your screen, and I feel like what they ended up going with was rather dumb. You still enter a cyber landscape, but under FPS controls rather than the 6DoF every other cyberspace controls as. You pick up a digital gun, get a little bit of a monologue from shodan, and then shoot at some cyber enemies in between shooting at the floating three-prong Tower thing that represents shodan. There doesn't seem to be any risk of actual failure at this point, if you fall over you respawn at a nearby pad in cyberspace with no apparent penalty.

I do not remember if the original system shock went into detail on what happens to shodan when you win, the remake makes it pretty explicit that you reshackle her.

It did not; I would have assumed she was destroyed, but then she turns up again (somehow) in the sequel.

the sequel does explain how you get shodan again: she had a chunk of herself on the grove you eject. Not her full grand intellect, but enough of her to survive and cause trouble once she gets found.