I think there are many people vastly underestimate how much Ghostbusters means to some.
Pixels, Call of Duty, even Batman vs Superman are nowhere near the same thing, for different reasons. On the surface I can see why someone would wonder why Batman Vs Superman would be similar, but those are characters with 60 years of different interpretations by different people with different ideas and different levels of quality. One bad movie doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things, especially to the diehard fans.
But Ghostbusters on the other hand means something completely different to a lot of people. For a lot of people there isn't a movie more important/influential in their lives, and that isn't something that's easy to justify or explain to someone that doesn't get it. The only thing I can see as a close comparison is maybe something like Star Wars. But even then that's it own unique thing with it's own unique following that isn't quite comparable to anything else.
I don't think I've explained this well, but like I said... it's hard to explain. Ghostbusters is just one of those things that's highly reverent to a lot of people. Changing or messing with that in any way, even just by making an average reboot, rubs a lot of people the wrong way. While I fully admit there is a lot of other shit surrounding this movie, I think this is the very core that has powered a lot of the backlash. While I can't speak for everyone that has strong negative feelings towards this movie, I really don't think casting 4 men in the lead roles would have changed too many opinions in the end. Rebooting something like Ghostbusters is just a no-win situation for a lot of fans.
I think there are many people vastly underestimate how much Ghostbusters means to some.
Pixels, Call of Duty, even Batman vs Superman are nowhere near the same thing, for different reasons. On the surface I can see why someone would wonder why Batman Vs Superman would be similar, but those are characters with 60 years of different interpretations by different people with different ideas and different levels of quality. One bad movie doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things, especially to the diehard fans.
But Ghostbusters on the other hand means something completely different to a lot of people. For a lot of people there isn't a movie more important/influential in their lives, and that isn't something that's easy to justify or explain to someone that doesn't get it. The only thing I can see as a close comparison is maybe something like Star Wars. But even then that's it own unique thing with it's own unique following that isn't quite comparable to anything else.
I don't think I've explained this well, but like I said... it's hard to explain. Ghostbusters is just one of those things that's highly reverent to a lot of people. Changing or messing with that in any way, even just by making an average reboot, rubs a lot of people the wrong way. While I fully admit there is a lot of other shit surrounding this movie, I think this is the very core that has powered a lot of the backlash. While I can't speak for everyone that has strong negative feelings towards this movie, I really don't think casting 4 men in the lead roles would have changed too many opinions in the end. Rebooting something like Ghostbusters is just a no-win situation for a lot of fans.
Critics got death threats for rating B vs S "wrong," and it and MOS have had a massive impact on nerd culture in various media and the internet itself. Batman, in particular, overshadows Ghostbusters as a cultural phenomena - so does Star Wars and Star Trek.
Ghostbusters has also had various interpretations over the years, in the comics and cartoons. Which included drastic changes in the line-up and style wise. '16 was following that trend, not starting it.
I'm still having a hard time understanding how people who watched Ghostbusters were 120 times more likely to give it a dislike than Batman v Superman, other than the obvious.
Obviously sexism played a part but I think we need to be humble about chaotic systems and which butterfly flap caused which hurricane.
“Reject your sense of injury and the injury itself disappears.”
― Marcus Aurelius
It's probably one dude in a basement with an algorithm
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Sexism played a part. But BvS wasn't the epicenter of a discussion on gender in movies. Ghostbusters was. The trailer was always going to get more votes, up or down, because it was the only mile marker we had at the time in the quality vs gimmick argument.
Look at it this way. Bridesmaids is half the same cast, but only 1 in 1000 even bothered to vote on the trailer, up or down. 1 in 30 people voted on the Ghostbusters trailer. They didn't just start hating Wiig and McCarthy for being ladies in the last 5 years. There was a bigger conversation happening and the trailer gave people an outlet to speak. Unfortunately, dislike is not precise enough to draw any conclusions about how much sexism weighted things. Of the million down votes, I couldn't even hazard a guess as to how many were just protest votes, because the trailer really was ass. Likewise, I couldn't put a number to how many up votes were just support votes, because there is no accounting for taste.
Most of the reasons you described could also apply to Batman v. Superman.
Except one.
I mean could, but back to my old example, the same reasons IW was downvoted to oblivion could have easily applied to Black Ops 3, but didn't
In fact, BLOPS 3 is the first COD game you can play as a woman during the campaign and it didn't even get any measurable hate from the grumble goat people over it
Who knows why mobs attach to one product or another, we can make theories, I think it's because people who are attached to the ghostbusters film are really attached to it (and this movie in particular filled me with ire by baiting us as being a sequel and actually being a reboot)?
That's my best guess, it would seem to fit with most of the overly negative "never gave it a chance" reviews (I think you really have to be in a weird place to call Comicbookgirl19 a misogynist given the level of MRA hate she has to deal with on a daily basis) unless every single one of them is lying about their motivations
Again, some percentage of the hate is naked sexism, but I think it's borderline ludicrous to call all of the people who dismissed the movie out of hand sexists. I dismissed the new Independence Day movie out of hand for example and nobody has called me any insult over that (I'd actually note the internet critical reception among popular youtube reviewers AJS, CG19, etc for the new Independence Day is almost identical in terms of negativity to Ghostbusters, those reviews just get less views)
I think there are many people vastly underestimate how much Ghostbusters means to some.
Pixels, Call of Duty, even Batman vs Superman are nowhere near the same thing, for different reasons. On the surface I can see why someone would wonder why Batman Vs Superman would be similar, but those are characters with 60 years of different interpretations by different people with different ideas and different levels of quality. One bad movie doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things, especially to the diehard fans.
But Ghostbusters on the other hand means something completely different to a lot of people. For a lot of people there isn't a movie more important/influential in their lives, and that isn't something that's easy to justify or explain to someone that doesn't get it. The only thing I can see as a close comparison is maybe something like Star Wars. But even then that's it own unique thing with it's own unique following that isn't quite comparable to anything else.
I don't think I've explained this well, but like I said... it's hard to explain. Ghostbusters is just one of those things that's highly reverent to a lot of people. Changing or messing with that in any way, even just by making an average reboot, rubs a lot of people the wrong way. While I fully admit there is a lot of other shit surrounding this movie, I think this is the very core that has powered a lot of the backlash. While I can't speak for everyone that has strong negative feelings towards this movie, I really don't think casting 4 men in the lead roles would have changed too many opinions in the end. Rebooting something like Ghostbusters is just a no-win situation for a lot of fans.
Critics got death threats for rating B vs S "wrong," and it and MOS have had a massive impact on nerd culture in various media and the internet itself. Batman, in particular, overshadows Ghostbusters as a cultural phenomena - so does Star Wars and Star Trek.
Ghostbusters has also had various interpretations over the years, in the comics and cartoons. Which included drastic changes in the line-up and style wise. '16 was following that trend, not starting it.
I completely agree, those things are bigger. People were shitty about BvS reviews, and people are shitty about many other movies and reviews too. There are lots of shitty people on the internet that bash people about dumb shit. Those things are all true.
All I was trying to say is Ghostbusters means a uniquely different thing to a lot of people, in a way others may not understand. And it hasn't been big in the public eye in the same way as other properties people are comparing it to. This craziness around this movie has a lot of roots in that.
BvS' trailer never turned into a culture war "issue" ending up as a "debate" in all corners of the new media, especially because it was more or less a continuation of the new Superman we had already gotten (and batman has had many, many movie interpretations, Ghostbusters hasn't)
Everyone wants to put their two cents into something once it becomes that, hey just look at this thread, all of us are putting our 2 cents in, we didn't do that nearly as much about Pixels even though I'm sure we all agree it's worse
Almost all of the most disliked videos on YouTube are actually really popular, except for that Brazilian guy who seems to be actively farming dislikes. Seems like the number of dislikes are correlated with exposure mote than anything else
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
I can't recall any other celebrity with a sideline business whose product was actually decent
Hmm actually Newman's Own salad dressing is alright
Paladin on
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
I can't recall any other celebrity with a sideline business whose product was actually decent
Viggo Mortensen is a photographer on the side and by all accounts a nice dude. Plenty of celebs have side work they do, they just don't make a big deal out of it.
Akroyd though is weider than most. Like he's Art Bell style when it comes to conspiracy theories, but from his comments I get the feeling he's not a trump supporter, unless he's lamenting being lumped in with racists.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I can't recall any other celebrity with a sideline business whose product was actually decent
Nick Offerman actually does carpentry in real-life.
That's not fair, he was already a great carpenter with celebrity as his side business to fund his workshop
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
I think there are many people vastly underestimate how much Ghostbusters means to some.
I think that you're vastly underestimating how much maintaining a sense of "manhood" means to some.
It's possible that a lot of people are a hundred times more emotionally attached to Ghostbusters compared to any other movie franchise in the history of cinema.
Alternatively, it's possible that a lot of people are simply attached to their concept of gender, which tends to have a much bigger impact on the average person's life.
You're comparing a 32 year old movie to tens of thousands of years worth of social patriarchy.
I don't think I've explained this well, but like I said... it's hard to explain. Ghostbusters is just one of those things that's highly reverent to a lot of people.
And gender isn't?
There are literally people in this thread who said they saw the female casting as "insult to injury."
I think the very strange phenomenon of the hate for this movie is many sided. Obviously the thing begins with the angry nerds who seem to think shitty remakes pollute their beloved childhood memories. I get this. It is very human and corresponds somewhat to obsessions with purity we see in a lot of religious practices through the ages. Add to this the current team a vs team b stuff surrounding race and gender and we amp things up a bit. I guarantee a ton of didn't see it ONE scores are by young males who just assume this movie is some social justice propaganda (as if Hollywood is going to make a 150M social justice propaganda summer movie). Add a shitty trailer and you get some back and forth going with positions crystallizing into something that has nothing to do with the movie, which at this point has become akin to a minor child in a bitter divorce. This movie is a known quantity. It is a Paul Feig comedy starring Melissa Mccarthy. It is near a guaranteed 7 with standard dev of 1. It is near guaranteed to have no politics with a standard dev of "a bit". I kinda feel bad for this movie being turned into a shibboleth.
“Reject your sense of injury and the injury itself disappears.”
― Marcus Aurelius
So, I don't think this movie is going to hit the break-even point. Sony said that was ~$300 million, and I really think StarTrek is going to bury it.
We'll have to see. It's already done better domestically then the Warcraft movie but not having China means it's done poorly in foreign market. Sony must have known that risk before they greenlighted the project.
It will be interesting to see if Warner Brothers moves forward with their plans for the Oceans Eleven reboot with the all female cast vehicle after the soft numbers from the Ghostbusters remake and the controversy behind it. Something tells me that it wont get near the amount of hate for it as Ghostbusters got. The Oceans Eleven films are good movies but they dont have that same nostalgia going for it as Ghostbusters had.
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
edited July 2016
Oceans Eleven itself, was also a reboot of a movie from 1960.
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
for me it's that Ghosbusters was kind of a lightning in a bottle thing and I think people forget how big it was, Ghostbusters, Star Wars, Robocop, apart from legos that's basically 95% of the toys I owned as a child
nobody had a set of ocean's eleven action figures when they were 8
Again I'm sure the new one is fine, I'll see it eventually and probably like it better than man of steel or robocop (2014)
override367 on
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AlazullYour body is not a temple, it's an amusement park.Enjoy the ride.Registered Userregular
Saw this Sunday.
I gotta say it was better than I expected it to be. It dealt well with modernizing the concept of the franchise, had decent cameos, and it was funny throughout.
User name Alazull on Steam, PSN, Nintenders, Epic, etc.
On July 19th, 2016, Leslie Jones was the victim of a disgusting and racist personal attack from dozens of Twitter users. The Ghostbusters community rallied together to compile this footage from fans worldwide. Yes Have Some podcast would like to thank everyone who contributed. We love Leslie Jones and we stand behind her as one. Fight the hate, spread the nuclear love!
Ocean's Eleven is more representative of a generic genre than a specific brand.
It would be like doing "Under Siege" remake with a female action hero.
It is, and it isn't. The movies with Brad Pitt have become a popular brand of their own, before that it'd be less of a problem since they're recent movies. So it could go either way, really.
for me it's that Ghosbusters was kind of a lightning in a bottle thing and I think people forget how big it was, Ghostbusters, Star Wars, Robocop, apart from legos that's basically 95% of the toys I owned as a child
The Force Awakened wasn't a comedy either, and it got hit with the bullshit GB did.
I don't deny GB was a hit in his its prime, and it was very popular with its inception - but after the movies stopping getting made it became a obscure franchise that existed in video games, cartoons and comic books. Ghostbusters never became a cultural touchstone that Star Wars or Batman was, I'd liken it to Robocop.
nobody had a set of ocean's eleven action figures when they were 8
They did a few financially successful movies starring Brad Pitt, George Clooney and half of Hollywood. That's hardly nothing.
Again I'm sure the new one is fine, I'll see it eventually and probably like it better than man of steel or robocop (2014)
Man of Steel was incredibly controversial, and is to this day. It's only died down lately, and even that was because Batman vs Superman stole its thunder. Weeks before B vs S in this very forum posters were getting into debates about it.
After a screening of the new GHOSTBUSTERS film, YouTube Space LA's Brent Coble sat down with director Paul Feig, Dr. Stacy Smith and Google Science Fair winner Olivia Hallisey to talk about science and storytelling!
Heh, Ghostbusters is at 97% on RT, up from 70% like 2 days ago whoops nevermind
Paladin on
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Dunno if this article has been shared in this thread. We need to facilitate creators being not beholden to fans.
That's the blood money of a franchise. You get more exposure and more funding opportunities from wearing a well-worn mantle, but....
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Saw it last night with my wife. It was really, genuinely good! I was very iffy on the premise going in. Ghostbusters was a goofy 80s product that's great on it's own merits, but I had a hard time imagining how they could recapture that spirit in the modern era.
Kate McKinnon and Leslie Jones absolutely saved this movie. No knock against the other two leads, but those two performances (especially Holtzmann) were inspired. I would have no qualms watching a second movie exploring a little more of those two.
Posts
Pixels, Call of Duty, even Batman vs Superman are nowhere near the same thing, for different reasons. On the surface I can see why someone would wonder why Batman Vs Superman would be similar, but those are characters with 60 years of different interpretations by different people with different ideas and different levels of quality. One bad movie doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things, especially to the diehard fans.
But Ghostbusters on the other hand means something completely different to a lot of people. For a lot of people there isn't a movie more important/influential in their lives, and that isn't something that's easy to justify or explain to someone that doesn't get it. The only thing I can see as a close comparison is maybe something like Star Wars. But even then that's it own unique thing with it's own unique following that isn't quite comparable to anything else.
I don't think I've explained this well, but like I said... it's hard to explain. Ghostbusters is just one of those things that's highly reverent to a lot of people. Changing or messing with that in any way, even just by making an average reboot, rubs a lot of people the wrong way. While I fully admit there is a lot of other shit surrounding this movie, I think this is the very core that has powered a lot of the backlash. While I can't speak for everyone that has strong negative feelings towards this movie, I really don't think casting 4 men in the lead roles would have changed too many opinions in the end. Rebooting something like Ghostbusters is just a no-win situation for a lot of fans.
Critics got death threats for rating B vs S "wrong," and it and MOS have had a massive impact on nerd culture in various media and the internet itself. Batman, in particular, overshadows Ghostbusters as a cultural phenomena - so does Star Wars and Star Trek.
Ghostbusters has also had various interpretations over the years, in the comics and cartoons. Which included drastic changes in the line-up and style wise. '16 was following that trend, not starting it.
Obviously sexism played a part but I think we need to be humble about chaotic systems and which butterfly flap caused which hurricane.
― Marcus Aurelius
Path of Exile: themightypuck
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Look at it this way. Bridesmaids is half the same cast, but only 1 in 1000 even bothered to vote on the trailer, up or down. 1 in 30 people voted on the Ghostbusters trailer. They didn't just start hating Wiig and McCarthy for being ladies in the last 5 years. There was a bigger conversation happening and the trailer gave people an outlet to speak. Unfortunately, dislike is not precise enough to draw any conclusions about how much sexism weighted things. Of the million down votes, I couldn't even hazard a guess as to how many were just protest votes, because the trailer really was ass. Likewise, I couldn't put a number to how many up votes were just support votes, because there is no accounting for taste.
I mean could, but back to my old example, the same reasons IW was downvoted to oblivion could have easily applied to Black Ops 3, but didn't
In fact, BLOPS 3 is the first COD game you can play as a woman during the campaign and it didn't even get any measurable hate from the grumble goat people over it
Who knows why mobs attach to one product or another, we can make theories, I think it's because people who are attached to the ghostbusters film are really attached to it (and this movie in particular filled me with ire by baiting us as being a sequel and actually being a reboot)?
That's my best guess, it would seem to fit with most of the overly negative "never gave it a chance" reviews (I think you really have to be in a weird place to call Comicbookgirl19 a misogynist given the level of MRA hate she has to deal with on a daily basis) unless every single one of them is lying about their motivations
Again, some percentage of the hate is naked sexism, but I think it's borderline ludicrous to call all of the people who dismissed the movie out of hand sexists. I dismissed the new Independence Day movie out of hand for example and nobody has called me any insult over that (I'd actually note the internet critical reception among popular youtube reviewers AJS, CG19, etc for the new Independence Day is almost identical in terms of negativity to Ghostbusters, those reviews just get less views)
I completely agree, those things are bigger. People were shitty about BvS reviews, and people are shitty about many other movies and reviews too. There are lots of shitty people on the internet that bash people about dumb shit. Those things are all true.
All I was trying to say is Ghostbusters means a uniquely different thing to a lot of people, in a way others may not understand. And it hasn't been big in the public eye in the same way as other properties people are comparing it to. This craziness around this movie has a lot of roots in that.
Everyone wants to put their two cents into something once it becomes that, hey just look at this thread, all of us are putting our 2 cents in, we didn't do that nearly as much about Pixels even though I'm sure we all agree it's worse
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Dan you're crazy, but sometimes you're saner than most.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Dan is probably using a Ouija board to summon ghosts to haunt the insignificant gnats.. or perhaps using witchcraft to summon a swarm of gnats.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Hmm actually Newman's Own salad dressing is alright
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Viggo Mortensen is a photographer on the side and by all accounts a nice dude. Plenty of celebs have side work they do, they just don't make a big deal out of it.
Akroyd though is weider than most. Like he's Art Bell style when it comes to conspiracy theories, but from his comments I get the feeling he's not a trump supporter, unless he's lamenting being lumped in with racists.
pleasepaypreacher.net
and ghosts... and psychics and pretty much everything metaphysical. He is coo-coo for cocoa puffs.
Nick Offerman actually does carpentry in real-life.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
That's not fair, he was already a great carpenter with celebrity as his side business to fund his workshop
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
I think that you're vastly underestimating how much maintaining a sense of "manhood" means to some.
It's possible that a lot of people are a hundred times more emotionally attached to Ghostbusters compared to any other movie franchise in the history of cinema.
Alternatively, it's possible that a lot of people are simply attached to their concept of gender, which tends to have a much bigger impact on the average person's life.
You're comparing a 32 year old movie to tens of thousands of years worth of social patriarchy.
And gender isn't?
There are literally people in this thread who said they saw the female casting as "insult to injury."
Well I mean if you can grow a mustache like the one from his parks and rec character you automatically gain carpentry skill
Wasn't that a prosthetic?
― Marcus Aurelius
Path of Exile: themightypuck
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
We'll have to see. It's already done better domestically then the Warcraft movie but not having China means it's done poorly in foreign market. Sony must have known that risk before they greenlighted the project.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
It would be like doing "Under Siege" remake with a female action hero.
eh it's not that it's even a comedy
for me it's that Ghosbusters was kind of a lightning in a bottle thing and I think people forget how big it was, Ghostbusters, Star Wars, Robocop, apart from legos that's basically 95% of the toys I owned as a child
nobody had a set of ocean's eleven action figures when they were 8
Again I'm sure the new one is fine, I'll see it eventually and probably like it better than man of steel or robocop (2014)
I gotta say it was better than I expected it to be. It dealt well with modernizing the concept of the franchise, had decent cameos, and it was funny throughout.
On July 19th, 2016, Leslie Jones was the victim of a disgusting and racist personal attack from dozens of Twitter users. The Ghostbusters community rallied together to compile this footage from fans worldwide. Yes Have Some podcast would like to thank everyone who contributed. We love Leslie Jones and we stand behind her as one. Fight the hate, spread the nuclear love!
It is, and it isn't. The movies with Brad Pitt have become a popular brand of their own, before that it'd be less of a problem since they're recent movies. So it could go either way, really.
The Force Awakened wasn't a comedy either, and it got hit with the bullshit GB did.
I don't deny GB was a hit in his its prime, and it was very popular with its inception - but after the movies stopping getting made it became a obscure franchise that existed in video games, cartoons and comic books. Ghostbusters never became a cultural touchstone that Star Wars or Batman was, I'd liken it to Robocop.
They did a few financially successful movies starring Brad Pitt, George Clooney and half of Hollywood. That's hardly nothing.
Man of Steel was incredibly controversial, and is to this day. It's only died down lately, and even that was because Batman vs Superman stole its thunder. Weeks before B vs S in this very forum posters were getting into debates about it.
After a screening of the new GHOSTBUSTERS film, YouTube Space LA's Brent Coble sat down with director Paul Feig, Dr. Stacy Smith and Google Science Fair winner Olivia Hallisey to talk about science and storytelling!
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Dunno if this article has been shared in this thread. We need to facilitate creators being not beholden to fans.
That's the blood money of a franchise. You get more exposure and more funding opportunities from wearing a well-worn mantle, but....
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Kate McKinnon and Leslie Jones absolutely saved this movie. No knock against the other two leads, but those two performances (especially Holtzmann) were inspired. I would have no qualms watching a second movie exploring a little more of those two.
You can't give someone a pirate ship in one game, and then take it back in the next game. It's rude.