One thing I noticed. Last season, near the end, Michael said they were torturing 30 billion people. Which is a lot, but it's believed that 110 billion people ever lived. So that suggests that either people leave The Bad Place pretty regularly, or way less people make it into The Bad Place than we assume.
I think that figure came up in the last episode too, and it struck me as very low.
One thing I noticed. Last season, near the end, Michael said they were torturing 30 billion people. Which is a lot, but it's believed that 110 billion people ever lived. So that suggests that either people leave The Bad Place pretty regularly, or way less people make it into The Bad Place than we assume.
I think that figure came up in the last episode too, and it struck me as very low.
Yeah, but that's based on the ~200,000 years of human existence model.
Would that number still apply to the 6,000 year old new earth theory? Has that concept been debunked.yet, and did I miss it?
One thing I've learned from this show is don't take ANYTHING as assumed. Even basic facts.
One thing I noticed. Last season, near the end, Michael said they were torturing 30 billion people. Which is a lot, but it's believed that 110 billion people ever lived. So that suggests that either people leave The Bad Place pretty regularly, or way less people make it into The Bad Place than we assume.
I think that figure came up in the last episode too, and it struck me as very low.
Yeah, but that's based on the ~200,000 years of human existence model.
Would that number still apply to the 6,000 year old new earth theory? Has that concept been debunked.yet, and did I miss it?
One thing I've learned from this show is don't take ANYTHING as assumed. Even basic facts.
The question of exactly when the point system emerged is...not terrible, considering that the system, in some part, seems to rely on moral philosophy, which hasn't always existed.
One thing I noticed. Last season, near the end, Michael said they were torturing 30 billion people. Which is a lot, but it's believed that 110 billion people ever lived. So that suggests that either people leave The Bad Place pretty regularly, or way less people make it into The Bad Place than we assume.
I think that figure came up in the last episode too, and it struck me as very low.
Yeah, but that's based on the ~200,000 years of human existence model.
Would that number still apply to the 6,000 year old new earth theory? Has that concept been debunked.yet, and did I miss it?
One thing I've learned from this show is don't take ANYTHING as assumed. Even basic facts.
The question of exactly when the point system emerged is...not terrible, considering that the system, in some part, seems to rely on moral philosophy, which hasn't always existed.
Anyone know if that guy with his portrait in Michaels office has any relevance to th show behind to scenes?
There's also the question of if there's a different system for childhood deaths since a ridiculous percentage of human lives, especially before the 20th century, were people who never made it to adulthood.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
It'd be interesting if little kids and babies are just given a straight pass. Or they might be in the weird suspended animation state Mindy St.Claire was in while the judges bickered over her life. Which doesn't seem too bad of a fate.
One thing I noticed. Last season, near the end, Michael said they were torturing 30 billion people. Which is a lot, but it's believed that 110 billion people ever lived. So that suggests that either people leave The Bad Place pretty regularly, or way less people make it into The Bad Place than we assume.
I think that figure came up in the last episode too, and it struck me as very low.
Yeah, but that's based on the ~200,000 years of human existence model.
Would that number still apply to the 6,000 year old new earth theory? Has that concept been debunked.yet, and did I miss it?
One thing I've learned from this show is don't take ANYTHING as assumed. Even basic facts.
The question of exactly when the point system emerged is...not terrible, considering that the system, in some part, seems to rely on moral philosophy, which hasn't always existed.
Anyone know if that guy with his portrait in Michaels office has any relevance to th show behind to scenes?
The portrait of Doug Forcett is (podcast spoiler):
in real life, a picture of Noah Garfinkel, a writer/actor and a good friend of Joe Mande, standup comedian and one of the writers on the show.
The Good/Bad Place concept is unrealistic. Where do you draw the line?
I mean how is the concept unrealistic? They're just cribbing from the thousand or so religions where just eating the wrong type of food can get you eternal damnation. Most of those religions also(for better or worse) have clauses for the souls of children/infants.
Edit: Eternal damnation is really fun to say/type. ETERNAL! DAMNATION! it's even got a beat to it.
The Good/Bad Place concept is unrealistic. Where do you draw the line?
I mean how is the concept unrealistic? They're just cribbing from the thousand or so religions where just eating the wrong type of food can get you eternal damnation. Most of those religions also(for better or worse) have clauses for the souls of children/infants.
Edit: Eternal damnation is really fun to say/type. ETERNAL! DAMNATION! it's even got a beat to it.
That is where the humor comes in. People getting damned for silly stuff.
And yeah, we don't know how she exactly phrased Chidi's challenge, but with Tahani, and with Jason if he'd have shut up for one goddamn second, she wasn't exactly trying to hide what the tests were. She was very explicit with what was being challenged. It was probably something very similar to "pick a hat. Seriously. Just pick a hat. The hats don't do anything, they're just hats. Pick one and you win."
In fairness, Eleanor was given a trick challenge, with multiple layers. Not only did she have to spot the first level of the trap - that she didn't already have a free pass to the Good Place - but she then needed to spot that Chidi wasn't actually Chidi. From his overly analytical perspective, Chidi was probably concerned with the working conditions under which the hats were made, the environmental impact of the dyes, what form of signaling a given hat would entail, etc. Which was to his detriment in his challenge, but it was that sort of overthinking it that let Eleanor beat her challenge.
Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
And yet it seemed just as labour-intensive Michael's way, if not more
According to Michael or one of the demons their suffering was far beyond any other human being tortured, with the original plan being to eventually leave them mostly on their own. It makes sense given the Bad Place seems to mostly focus on physical torments.
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
One thing I noticed. Last season, near the end, Michael said they were torturing 30 billion people. Which is a lot, but it's believed that 110 billion people ever lived. So that suggests that either people leave The Bad Place pretty regularly, or way less people make it into The Bad Place than we assume.
The point of the test that Eleanor and the gang are going through are to prove or disprove the fact that people can get better after their tallies are counted. So I'm going to guess nobody moves between tiers (they really lean into the "tortured for eternity") and that the writers didn't google how many people ever lived and just picked a very high number.
Also I could see children and the mentally ill theoretically getting a pass? I don't know what percentage of the 110 that is but it's probably pretty significant.
Edit: did not notice the second page before responding...
And yet it seemed just as labour-intensive Michael's way, if not more
According to Michael or one of the demons their suffering was far beyond any other human being tortured, with the original plan being to eventually leave them mostly on their own. It makes sense given the Bad Place seems to mostly focus on physical torments.
Yeah his end goal was basically that they start to hate each other and the demons get what amounts to a free sitcom as observers.
Though even he didnt think it would last forever
I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
I feel like the problem with Michael's premise is that it started too small. Like I don't think it's arguable that humans can make life hell for each other you just need to be able to factionalize and divide them. Four people is in the network where everyone can know everyone and humans can show a lot of empathy to people in the community that they live with and see every day.
Like honestly you could just run an earth sim and just have demons as politicians/heads of state and just gin up a lot of hatred, war, and misery.
I feel like the problem with Michael's premise is that it started too small. Like I don't think it's arguable that humans can make life hell for each other you just need to be able to factionalize and divide them. Four people is in the network where everyone can know everyone and humans can show a lot of empathy to people in the community that they live with and see every day.
Like honestly you could just run an earth sim and just have demons as politicians/heads of state and just gin up a lot of hatred, war, and misery.
when you think about it, aren't we already in hell???????? makesuthink
I feel like the problem with Michael's premise is that it started too small. Like I don't think it's arguable that humans can make life hell for each other you just need to be able to factionalize and divide them. Four people is in the network where everyone can know everyone and humans can show a lot of empathy to people in the community that they live with and see every day.
Like honestly you could just run an earth sim and just have demons as politicians/heads of state and just gin up a lot of hatred, war, and misery.
ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
I know that that's interpretable as a "HAHA HELL ON EARTH AMIRITE" but my point was more "why would any demons be incredulous about the idea that humans could make each other miserable without requiring the assistance of demon labor?"
I know that that's interpretable as a "HAHA HELL ON EARTH AMIRITE" but my point was more "why would any demons be incredulous about the idea that humans could make each other miserable without requiring the assistance of demon labor?"
They don’t seem to actually know that much about humans.
I know that that's interpretable as a "HAHA HELL ON EARTH AMIRITE" but my point was more "why would any demons be incredulous about the idea that humans could make each other miserable without requiring the assistance of demon labor?"
They don’t seem to actually know that much about humans.
They also seem to be very into traditions and not shaking things up.
I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
I know that that's interpretable as a "HAHA HELL ON EARTH AMIRITE" but my point was more "why would any demons be incredulous about the idea that humans could make each other miserable without requiring the assistance of demon labor?"
They don’t seem to actually know that much about humans.
They also seem to be very into traditions and not shaking things up.
I know that that's interpretable as a "HAHA HELL ON EARTH AMIRITE" but my point was more "why would any demons be incredulous about the idea that humans could make each other miserable without requiring the assistance of demon labor?"
They don’t seem to actually know that much about humans.
They also seem to be very into traditions and not shaking things up.
I think that is one of the running commentaries on Michael. That, while the rest of the demons (sorry for being racist) don't understand and don't care about humans beyond just using physical pain, Michael is (at the beginning) interested in understanding their emotions to torture them (well, to have them torture each other). But as we see in the show, by learning more about them, he grows to love them as friends.
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett
The idea that people can become better with time seems so contentious in the afterlife, tells me that the various immortal beings, including the judge, have a problem grappling with the concept of free will, like they don’t actually understand it.
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
Did they establish that the judge was actually a creator? Is there one? One would think there has to be in order for there to be a supreme judge over all life. I guess maybe it could be an insanely advanced civilization or something.
I'm sure this isn't a unique thought, but the fact that our four keep breaking the various experiments they're put into could mean the series concludes with
completely upending the traditional afterlife system and forcing the various immortal beings to come up with a new system.
Honestly, I'm expecting the group to make it to the actual Good Place and manage to break that, too.
Did they establish that the judge was actually a creator? Is there one? One would think there has to be in order for there to be a supreme judge over all life. I guess maybe it could be an insanely advanced civilization or something.
She isnt God. She arbitrates disputes and if a system is challenged she can approve ways to test that. Well as far as we know.
We are in a situation though where the Judge is the lone authority and they'd have to introduce someone above her to solve any of this.
I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
I feel like the problem with Michael's premise is that it started too small. Like I don't think it's arguable that humans can make life hell for each other you just need to be able to factionalize and divide them. Four people is in the network where everyone can know everyone and humans can show a lot of empathy to people in the community that they live with and see every day.
Like honestly you could just run an earth sim and just have demons as politicians/heads of state and just gin up a lot of hatred, war, and misery.
Absolutely
Shoulda gone small town style. Few hundred up to a few thousand humans, at least two different religious factions but preferably three to four, and then just a handful of demons to crank up the the small town politics bullshit on occasion and voila, everlasting hell
I dunno, I think it's even easier to get people to hurt each other: just go the Hunger Games/Battle Royale way. Give people a bunch of rusty cheese graters and splintery wooden spoons, tell them they're in the bad place, and lie about how the ones who inflict the most pain on each other will get the least amount of torture. Supplement with additional torture as needed.
I feel like the problem with Michael's premise is that it started too small. Like I don't think it's arguable that humans can make life hell for each other you just need to be able to factionalize and divide them. Four people is in the network where everyone can know everyone and humans can show a lot of empathy to people in the community that they live with and see every day.
Like honestly you could just run an earth sim and just have demons as politicians/heads of state and just gin up a lot of hatred, war, and misery.
I think the point of Michael's experiment is that it was custom tailored to exploit the very particular weaknesses of each of the people involved in a way that a one-size-fits-all environment can't. Like there is something particularly heinous about this type of targeted psychological torture, even though to most people it's just awkward and unpleasant.
Of course that's still probably the most ludicrous idea presented on the show, comparing this to any one of the real Bad Place tortures we've heard about first hand. Even Eleanor's group clearly agrees that being sent to the real Bad Place is a worse fate than what they have. The second most ludicrous part is that the Bad Place thought it was such a good idea that they put 10 times as many demons on it as there are humans involved, including a full time high ranking architect.
Maybe from the very beginning, the entire arc of the story will have turned out to just be Michael's bad place all along?
Also it seems like Michael has been bored and unhappy as a demon for awhile. His experiment in essence is still the same - put these 4 people together in a situation that creates never ending misery was his initial goal.
Now he’s trying to put these 4 people together in a situation that leads to never ending betterment and happiness.
For him it’s all about the experiment of tailoring a situation for these 4 to get the outcome he wants.
I would really really love a Michael origin episode.
PSN: mxmarks - WiiU: mxmarks - twitter: @ MikesPS4 - twitch.tv/mxmarks - "Yes, mxmarks is the King of Queens" - Unbreakable Vow
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
Sticking people in the shitty parts of like, pre-Batman Gotham City seems like it would be PRETTY TERRIBLE.
On the other hand I'm not sure why they don't just have some sort of torture Rube Goldberg perpetual motion device if the goal is to free up time for demons. Some sort of eternal conveyor belt that is pokey-grindy-stabby-crushy. Perhaps humans would get used to that over an eternity?
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I think that figure came up in the last episode too, and it struck me as very low.
Yeah, but that's based on the ~200,000 years of human existence model.
Would that number still apply to the 6,000 year old new earth theory? Has that concept been debunked.yet, and did I miss it?
One thing I've learned from this show is don't take ANYTHING as assumed. Even basic facts.
The question of exactly when the point system emerged is...not terrible, considering that the system, in some part, seems to rely on moral philosophy, which hasn't always existed.
Anyone know if that guy with his portrait in Michaels office has any relevance to th show behind to scenes?
The portrait of Doug Forcett is (podcast spoiler):
The Good/Bad Place concept is unrealistic. Where do you draw the line?
I mean how is the concept unrealistic? They're just cribbing from the thousand or so religions where just eating the wrong type of food can get you eternal damnation. Most of those religions also(for better or worse) have clauses for the souls of children/infants.
Edit: Eternal damnation is really fun to say/type. ETERNAL! DAMNATION! it's even got a beat to it.
That is where the humor comes in. People getting damned for silly stuff.
Clearly they work in shifts.
Wasn't that part of their original intent? Teach them to torture themselves to lighten the workload?
In fairness, Eleanor was given a trick challenge, with multiple layers. Not only did she have to spot the first level of the trap - that she didn't already have a free pass to the Good Place - but she then needed to spot that Chidi wasn't actually Chidi. From his overly analytical perspective, Chidi was probably concerned with the working conditions under which the hats were made, the environmental impact of the dyes, what form of signaling a given hat would entail, etc. Which was to his detriment in his challenge, but it was that sort of overthinking it that let Eleanor beat her challenge.
According to Michael or one of the demons their suffering was far beyond any other human being tortured, with the original plan being to eventually leave them mostly on their own. It makes sense given the Bad Place seems to mostly focus on physical torments.
The point of the test that Eleanor and the gang are going through are to prove or disprove the fact that people can get better after their tallies are counted. So I'm going to guess nobody moves between tiers (they really lean into the "tortured for eternity") and that the writers didn't google how many people ever lived and just picked a very high number.
Also I could see children and the mentally ill theoretically getting a pass? I don't know what percentage of the 110 that is but it's probably pretty significant.
Edit: did not notice the second page before responding...
Yeah his end goal was basically that they start to hate each other and the demons get what amounts to a free sitcom as observers.
Though even he didnt think it would last forever
Like honestly you could just run an earth sim and just have demons as politicians/heads of state and just gin up a lot of hatred, war, and misery.
when you think about it, aren't we already in hell???????? makesuthink
They don’t seem to actually know that much about humans.
They also seem to be very into traditions and not shaking things up.
And enormous.
Honestly, I'm expecting the group to make it to the actual Good Place and manage to break that, too.
We are in a situation though where the Judge is the lone authority and they'd have to introduce someone above her to solve any of this.
I am now fantasizing about a 24-styled show about time travel.
It would be so weird.
Absolutely
Shoulda gone small town style. Few hundred up to a few thousand humans, at least two different religious factions but preferably three to four, and then just a handful of demons to crank up the the small town politics bullshit on occasion and voila, everlasting hell
I think the point of Michael's experiment is that it was custom tailored to exploit the very particular weaknesses of each of the people involved in a way that a one-size-fits-all environment can't. Like there is something particularly heinous about this type of targeted psychological torture, even though to most people it's just awkward and unpleasant.
Of course that's still probably the most ludicrous idea presented on the show, comparing this to any one of the real Bad Place tortures we've heard about first hand. Even Eleanor's group clearly agrees that being sent to the real Bad Place is a worse fate than what they have. The second most ludicrous part is that the Bad Place thought it was such a good idea that they put 10 times as many demons on it as there are humans involved, including a full time high ranking architect.
Maybe from the very beginning, the entire arc of the story will have turned out to just be Michael's bad place all along?
Now he’s trying to put these 4 people together in a situation that leads to never ending betterment and happiness.
For him it’s all about the experiment of tailoring a situation for these 4 to get the outcome he wants.
I would really really love a Michael origin episode.
On the other hand I'm not sure why they don't just have some sort of torture Rube Goldberg perpetual motion device if the goal is to free up time for demons. Some sort of eternal conveyor belt that is pokey-grindy-stabby-crushy. Perhaps humans would get used to that over an eternity?