The poor refutation/inconsistency of Eleanor's arguments initially bugged me too, but once she admitted it was a defence mechanism rather than an actual argument in favour of determinism I was fine with the writing. She was putting up a front, rather than assembling a consistent world view.
But she was reading out of a philosophy book in the library! And when she busted out the term, it was after the flashback of her actually learning a bunch of philosophy, which suggested that it sank in and she learned something. She's using something she learned as a defense mechanism, sure, but the show never for a single moment suggests that what she's saying is a bunch of bullshit.
The portrait in Michael's office was of the guy from back in the 70s, so they just have to cast some 60-something actor to be a current-day version of Doug Forcett.
I know he's only 57, but I have to think the best casting choice for a modern day Doug Forcett, in both the internal character of the show, the external qualities to portray the character of someone who was like that about that time, a reasonable enough physical resemblance, and arguably the most meta choice possible, would be...
Woody Harrelson.
And if he's running a basement bar in Boston, that'd be cake.
The show being what it is though, Doug will have died in the last year or so, and we'll get a family member or friends that knew him who is entirely unhelpful.
I loved this episode. Was the first one of this season that felt like it was firing on all cylinders. Got multiple laughs.
The show obviously gave the lay-person (or the Philosophy for Dummies for Morons) definition of determinism, as has been discussed, but I'd suggest that giving the topic the exploration it deserved would've taken longer than the runtime. And undercut the storytelling purpose it was brought in to serve. By presenting the theory in its details and the discussions surrounding that, it would've changed the feel of Eleanor latching onto the theory as a way to avoid self-reflection.
I loved this episode. Was the first one of this season that felt like it was firing on all cylinders. Got multiple laughs.
The show obviously gave the lay-person (or the Philosophy for Dummies for Morons) definition of determinism, as has been discussed, but I'd suggest that giving the topic the exploration it deserved would've taken longer than the runtime. And undercut the storytelling purpose it was brought in to serve. By presenting the theory in its details and the discussions surrounding that, it would've changed the feel of Eleanor latching onto the theory as a way to avoid self-reflection.
There are two rather easy solutions. First, the show could have kept from giving the impression that Eleanor was describing the theory correctly. They didn't need to show her reading from a philosophy book or present her explanation after going over the fact that she took philosophy classes from Chidi.
Second, they didn't need to use the word "determinism." She could have just talked about how she didn't have free will in other terms. This would avoid reinforcing the damaging, widespread, and super wrong belief that determinism is necessarily opposed to free will.
The poor refutation/inconsistency of Eleanor's arguments initially bugged me too, but once she admitted it was a defence mechanism rather than an actual argument in favour of determinism I was fine with the writing. She was putting up a front, rather than assembling a consistent world view.
But she was reading out of a philosophy book in the library! And when she busted out the term, it was after the flashback of her actually learning a bunch of philosophy, which suggested that it sank in and she learned something. She's using something she learned as a defense mechanism, sure, but the show never for a single moment suggests that what she's saying is a bunch of bullshit.
It's not, but she's filling in a lot of blanks about determinism that would be detrimental to her argument. From the get-go, she's not really arguing in favor of determinism in good faith.
They basically just ran through incompatiblism. That there must be a dichotomy between free will and determinism. Using hard determinism as the definition of determinism. Arriving where most people end up which is, "I just don't fuckin care, I'm gonna go do something I decided to do".
Michael's argument is even being a virtual God in his afterlife, knowing all the factors and information possible, didn't make him capable of knowing outcomes perfectly.
That's the other thing, michael is literally a higher being saying that free will definitely exists. That even if circumstances and manipulations dictate things more than anything else that there's something there making decisions in the face of those factors. Like he just grants the point immediately that yeah your context defines a bunch of your behavior, but that there's still something there making the choice at the last minute. Even if he was manipulating the shit out of everyone they still played some kind of active role in those situations he put them into. Basically a layman's understanding of compatibalism leaving aside the continuation that though unpredictable those active roles are just the result of the experiences of each individual being involved.
Eleanor's argument fell apart immediately, because Michael has never even been hinted at being omniscient, which is what would be required for determinism to be true.
it could be that the show continues exploring determinism in later episodes and that this was just the seed. they've done a really good job doing that for other philosophical concepts.
Eleanor's argument fell apart immediately, because Michael has never even been hinted at being omniscient, which is what would be required for determinism to be true.
Did they have the fake author of this fake book on screen? I kinda hope it says it's written by Mike Schur as a meta-joke about that being the subtitle of this show.
Eleanor's argument fell apart immediately, because Michael has never even been hinted at being omniscient, which is what would be required for determinism to be true.
The judge is omniscient though, isn't she?
I think so? But Janet (when not limited by being on Earth) definitely is.
Eleanor's argument fell apart immediately, because Michael has never even been hinted at being omniscient, which is what would be required for determinism to be true.
The judge is omniscient though, isn't she?
I think so? But Janet (when not limited by being on Earth) definitely is.
Hmmmm.....
Janet is omniscient and omnipotent but doesnt have free will, while Michael has free will and is omnipotent but is not omniscient. When not on Earth, as you said. The judge has all 3, but none of them have a soul. I wonder if Angel's are omniscient with free will, but are not omnipotent and are also lacking a soul.
Is Good Place God(s) the only being(s) that possess all 4 artibutes?
Eleanor's argument fell apart immediately, because Michael has never even been hinted at being omniscient, which is what would be required for determinism to be true.
The judge is omniscient though, isn't she?
I think so? But Janet (when not limited by being on Earth) definitely is.
Hmmmm.....
Janet is omniscient and omnipotent but doesnt have free will, while Michael has free will and is omnipotent but is not omniscient. When not on Earth, as you said. The judge has all 3, but none of them have a soul. I wonder if Angel's are omniscient with free will, but are not omnipotent and are also lacking a soul.
Is Good Place God(s) the only being(s) that possess all 4 artibutes?
I'm not sure Michael is omnipotent. He relies on Janet for most functions in administering the neighborhood and, assuming he is on-par, power-wise, with other demons his boss is capable of cocooning him, implying he does not have the ability to un-cocoon himself.
Have they ever established that there even is a god/gods/original creator entity?
Eleanor's argument fell apart immediately, because Michael has never even been hinted at being omniscient, which is what would be required for determinism to be true.
The judge is omniscient though, isn't she?
I think so? But Janet (when not limited by being on Earth) definitely is.
Hmmmm.....
Janet is omniscient and omnipotent but doesnt have free will, while Michael has free will and is omnipotent but is not omniscient. When not on Earth, as you said. The judge has all 3, but none of them have a soul. I wonder if Angel's are omniscient with free will, but are not omnipotent and are also lacking a soul.
Is Good Place God(s) the only being(s) that possess all 4 artibutes?
I'm not sure Michael is omnipotent. He relies on Janet for most functions in administering the neighborhood and, assuming he is on-par, power-wise, with other demons his boss is capable of cocooning him, implying he does not have the ability to un-cocoon himself.
Have they ever established that there even is a god/gods/original creator entity?
Eleanor's argument fell apart immediately, because Michael has never even been hinted at being omniscient, which is what would be required for determinism to be true.
The judge is omniscient though, isn't she?
I think so? But Janet (when not limited by being on Earth) definitely is.
Hmmmm.....
Janet is omniscient and omnipotent but doesnt have free will, while Michael has free will and is omnipotent but is not omniscient. When not on Earth, as you said. The judge has all 3, but none of them have a soul. I wonder if Angel's are omniscient with free will, but are not omnipotent and are also lacking a soul.
Is Good Place God(s) the only being(s) that possess all 4 artibutes?
I'm not sure Michael is omnipotent. He relies on Janet for most functions in administering the neighborhood and, assuming he is on-par, power-wise, with other demons his boss is capable of cocooning him, implying he does not have the ability to un-cocoon himself.
Have they ever established that there even is a god/gods/original creator entity?
Nope
And even if they had, it'd be an unreliable narrator. It shouldn't be assumed after the end of Season 1 that anything said by anyone is undisputedly accurate.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
The actor who plays Tahani is apparently amazing and hilarious. OBSERVE.
Well..... anything's a hair curler if you're oblivious enough.
In an interview with Seth Meyers she recounted a story about hetting ready for an audition (not sure if it was TGP or something else), where she borrowed her flatmates curling iron. And it took her a while, but she eventually realized it was a vibrator. And was rushed for the audition because she had to wash her hair, for obvious reasons.
If it doesn't autocue, and you don't want to watch the rest of the clip (in which case, you're deserving of negative points and going to the bad place), it starts at about 4:10 in.
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
Trying to game the system will absolutely bite him in the ass. He knows about the points, knows that's how to get into Heaven... and that knowledge auto-disqualifies him. I mean, look at our 4 (human) protagonists.
Janet
Of course she knows how to do all that stuff. Definitely the highlight of the episode.
Everyone else
Jason teaching Chidi how to play Pool is the other highlight of the episode, of course. And then Chidi runs with it because it's probably the only time he's ever had fun legitimately.
Also good on Eleanor for confessing this soon.
And Tahani for using her fencing training.
And "How the hell did he make that so fast?" referring to Jason's molotov got a solid guffaw out of me.
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y2jake215certified Flat Birther theoristthe Last Good Boy onlineRegistered Userregular
Posts
I think one of them was something like Stud Manly
No.
Keith David.
The show obviously gave the lay-person (or the Philosophy for Dummies for Morons) definition of determinism, as has been discussed, but I'd suggest that giving the topic the exploration it deserved would've taken longer than the runtime. And undercut the storytelling purpose it was brought in to serve. By presenting the theory in its details and the discussions surrounding that, it would've changed the feel of Eleanor latching onto the theory as a way to avoid self-reflection.
Second, they didn't need to use the word "determinism." She could have just talked about how she didn't have free will in other terms. This would avoid reinforcing the damaging, widespread, and super wrong belief that determinism is necessarily opposed to free will.
It's not, but she's filling in a lot of blanks about determinism that would be detrimental to her argument. From the get-go, she's not really arguing in favor of determinism in good faith.
steam | Dokkan: 868846562
Did they have the fake author of this fake book on screen? I kinda hope it says it's written by Mike Schur as a meta-joke about that being the subtitle of this show.
I think so? But Janet (when not limited by being on Earth) definitely is.
Hmmmm.....
Janet is omniscient and omnipotent but doesnt have free will, while Michael has free will and is omnipotent but is not omniscient. When not on Earth, as you said. The judge has all 3, but none of them have a soul. I wonder if Angel's are omniscient with free will, but are not omnipotent and are also lacking a soul.
Is Good Place God(s) the only being(s) that possess all 4 artibutes?
I'm not sure Michael is omnipotent. He relies on Janet for most functions in administering the neighborhood and, assuming he is on-par, power-wise, with other demons his boss is capable of cocooning him, implying he does not have the ability to un-cocoon himself.
Have they ever established that there even is a god/gods/original creator entity?
Nope
And even if they had, it'd be an unreliable narrator. It shouldn't be assumed after the end of Season 1 that anything said by anyone is undisputedly accurate.
Well..... anything's a hair curler if you're oblivious enough.
In an interview with Seth Meyers she recounted a story about hetting ready for an audition (not sure if it was TGP or something else), where she borrowed her flatmates curling iron. And it took her a while, but she eventually realized it was a vibrator. And was rushed for the audition because she had to wash her hair, for obvious reasons.
She's pretty awesome.
If it doesn't autocue, and you don't want to watch the rest of the clip (in which case, you're deserving of negative points and going to the bad place), it starts at about 4:10 in.
Everything I have ever heard has told me that Ted Danson and Kristen Bell are both exemptions to this rule.
The rest of the cast probably are as well.
That was just perfect. So, so perfect.
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Janet
Everyone else
Also good on Eleanor for confessing this soon.
And Tahani for using her fencing training.
And "How the hell did he make that so fast?" referring to Jason's molotov got a solid guffaw out of me.
Little danson man
Little dancin man
maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
I have never wanted to get back into working in TV more than when I see behind the scenes stuff from this show.
Funny though.