The last episode is divisive for me. I think the Tahani/Kamila reunion is earned, they're both children of awful, awful people who are one cryogenic chamber failure away from getting the punishment they deserve. But Eleanor's mum was as much if not more of a monster as a mother, and Eleanor is only redeemable in spite of her not because of her. I don't feel that he getting a second chance was earned or deserved, she abandoned her daughter and was still abandoning her up to being found by Eleanor.
I think that was the point. A lot of people have stories about their parents being horrible shits when they were kids but redeeming themselves as grandparents. Or doing exactly what Eleanor's mom did and being better person to a new family. Those people don't get much representation in television and its nice they can get their experiences validated for once.
The last episode is divisive for me. I think the Tahani/Kamila reunion is earned, they're both children of awful, awful people who are one cryogenic chamber failure away from getting the punishment they deserve.
I wonder if this is foreshadowing. If people in a cryo chamber don’t count as “dead” if it gets turned off Tahani’s dear Mother and Father could find themselves newly in the afterlife. Hijinks ensue.
The last episode is divisive for me. I think the Tahani/Kamila reunion is earned, they're both children of awful, awful people who are one cryogenic chamber failure away from getting the punishment they deserve.
I wonder if this is foreshadowing. If people in a cryo chamber don’t count as “dead” if it gets turned off Tahani’s dear Mother and Father could find themselves newly in the afterlife. Hijinks ensue.
Oh once you freeze yourself youre dead. Even if we figure out how to do cryo right its unlikely people frozen now would have been preserved correctly
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The last episode is divisive for me. I think the Tahani/Kamila reunion is earned, they're both children of awful, awful people who are one cryogenic chamber failure away from getting the punishment they deserve.
I wonder if this is foreshadowing. If people in a cryo chamber don’t count as “dead” if it gets turned off Tahani’s dear Mother and Father could find themselves newly in the afterlife. Hijinks ensue.
Oh once you freeze yourself youre dead. Even if we figure out how to do cryo right its unlikely people frozen now would have been preserved correctly
Don't current cryogenic services just cut off and freeze your head in the hopes that eventually brain-mapping technology will be able to overcome the damage done by freezing?
The last episode is divisive for me. I think the Tahani/Kamila reunion is earned, they're both children of awful, awful people who are one cryogenic chamber failure away from getting the punishment they deserve.
I wonder if this is foreshadowing. If people in a cryo chamber don’t count as “dead” if it gets turned off Tahani’s dear Mother and Father could find themselves newly in the afterlife. Hijinks ensue.
Oh once you freeze yourself youre dead. Even if we figure out how to do cryo right its unlikely people frozen now would have been preserved correctly
Don't current cryogenic services just cut off and freeze your head in the hopes that eventually brain-mapping technology will be able to overcome the damage done by freezing?
It depends. Just freezing the head is cheaper, but companies also offer full-body cryostasis.
But Eleanor's mum was as much if not more of a monster as a mother, and Eleanor is only redeemable in spite of her not because of her. I don't feel that he getting a second chance was earned or deserved, she abandoned her daughter and was still abandoning her up to being found by Eleanor.
She doesnt have a second chance, she is still going to the bad place. We have seen how the scoring system works, the second half of her life as an ordinary goodish person isn't enough even on its own, let alone with all the negative points she already accumulated.
But Eleanor's mum was as much if not more of a monster as a mother, and Eleanor is only redeemable in spite of her not because of her. I don't feel that he getting a second chance was earned or deserved, she abandoned her daughter and was still abandoning her up to being found by Eleanor.
She doesnt have a second chance, she is still going to the bad place. We have seen how the scoring system works, the second half of her life as an ordinary goodish person isn't enough even on its own, let alone with all the negative points she already accumulated.
Oh I didn;t think she'd get into the Good Place because that's impossible, but a do over life while abandoning your daughter? Just didn't work for me.
But Eleanor's mum was as much if not more of a monster as a mother, and Eleanor is only redeemable in spite of her not because of her. I don't feel that he getting a second chance was earned or deserved, she abandoned her daughter and was still abandoning her up to being found by Eleanor.
She doesnt have a second chance, she is still going to the bad place. We have seen how the scoring system works, the second half of her life as an ordinary goodish person isn't enough even on its own, let alone with all the negative points she already accumulated.
Oh I didn;t think she'd get into the Good Place because that's impossible, but a do over life while abandoning your daughter? Just didn't work for me.
Yeah, but who can judge her while she is still alive? She is there for a child, makes her man happy and seems to have a positive effect on her local community. Taking her away (either by forcing her to run off again or by killing her) would be bad for those people.
so by their system if you're awful for most f your life you'll never make up the difference
Yes, but whoever would have decided to punish this woman now, would have done harm to more people than just Eleanor's mom.
I had to rewrite the above a few times. It also made me wonder how the Judge would judge a judge. Sending people to jail is often a punishment not just for the perpetrator, but also for innocent people around them.
"Mother introduced her in maternity ward as her little sister"
"Dad forgot her birthday, changed birth certificate so he wasn't wrong"
Enemies - Neil Degrasse Tyson, one sided (His side).
There was a quick cut, once it was on her head, where it was back on her shoulder while she and Tahani were talking to the Tahani-taur. My wife and I thought maybe it was supposed to be on her shoulder the whole time, but ended up crawling onto her head and they just ran with it. Gotta say it was quite adorable perched on top of Elanor's head.
I find it interesting (and a bit disappointing) that they brought up the determinism vs free will issue and just handwaved it away without actually refuting anything Eleanor said. The resolution was just Michael dismissing the idea because it bums him out despite the whole reason the characters are even still together is because he believed that they couldn't become good people in their natural environments and had to be put in one more conducive to becoming good.
Its not even that it gets dismissed. It’s that they don’t do a great job explaining that in theory we are all just state machines taking inputs and putting out outputs. And from the very beginning when the first seed input was put into the universe there was never any way anything would ever play out differently
Which if true raises questions about anyone’s capability or responsibilities in being good or bad or any point system or good place or bad place or judges
Not addressing what determinism means for the entire concept of the show is a bit of a failure
Not as much as Eleanor not riding centahini though
I actually quite liked that Michael took a slightly existentialist approach to the free will question. Yeah, everything could all be pre-determined, but fuck it, I want to go pick my friends up from the airport so I'm going to go do just that.
It's one of the philosophical questions like the existence of reality that most philosophers eventually decide to handwave away anyway, so it really didn't bother me that they didn't want to dwell on it too much here. Moral questions are clearly the focus of the show's interests.
There was a quick cut, once it was on her head, where it was back on her shoulder while she and Tahani were talking to the Tahani-taur. My wife and I thought maybe it was supposed to be on her shoulder the whole time, but ended up crawling onto her head and they just ran with it. Gotta say it was quite adorable perched on top of Elanor's head.
Apparently, according to the podcast, the Iguana was supposed to be on her shoulder. It just climbed on top of her head without a cue and Kristen Bell being the amazing professional she is just let it be an Iguana. I am actually thoroughly disappointed in the editors for using that quick shot of the iguana on her shoulder.
Also, according to the podcast, the real restaurant that scene was shot at actually is closing down for a week to shoot porn. Oh, and that it would take $3,000 to $3500 to rent a giraffe for the day. That's just the animal price though, and doesnt include trainer or transport fees.
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It would be interesting to see a poll of what cross-section of TGP fans there are who believe in determinism (like me) versus TGP fans who believe in free will.
By creating a theory of determinism I feel its disproved. Why would whoever is controlling us let us know? Even our reactions to that would be predetermined so they dont get anything out of it .
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I actually quite liked that Michael took a slightly existentialist approach to the free will question. Yeah, everything could all be pre-determined, but fuck it, I want to go pick my friends up from the airport so I'm going to go do just that.
It's one of the philosophical questions like the existence of reality that most philosophers eventually decide to handwave away anyway, so it really didn't bother me that they didn't want to dwell on it too much here. Moral questions are clearly the focus of the show's interests.
Also the existence of an UberJanet and the fact they can time travel makes the whole state machine a little Jeremy Bearimy.
Its not even that it gets dismissed. It’s that they don’t do a great job explaining that in theory we are all just state machines taking inputs and putting out outputs. And from the very beginning when the first seed input was put into the universe there was never any way anything would ever play out differently
Which if true raises questions about anyone’s capability or responsibilities in being good or bad or any point system or good place or bad place or judges
Not addressing what determinism means for the entire concept of the show is a bit of a failure
Not as much as Eleanor not riding centahini though
I think it's also possible that some of the people making The Good Place could accept determinism as a possibility but be afraid to endorse it too much. The idea that whether a person is good or bad is ultimately beyond their control throws a lot of societal concepts into question and is very difficult for a lot of people to grasp.
However, Michael and Janet are already questioning the system behind the afterlife, so you think he'd be more interested in the concept. He's throwing away the possibility that maybe no one deserves to go to the Bad Place for their misdeeds or the Good Place for their good deeds just because he wants to believe in free will.
By creating a theory of determinism I feel its disproved. Why would whoever is controlling us let us know? Even our reactions to that would be predetermined so they dont get anything out of it .
Do you mean in the world of the show or in real life? In real life there doesn't have to be anyone pulling the strings. I thought it was odd that Eleanor assumed for determinism to be true there would have to be beings that even Michael was unaware of.
I'm glad the show just kind of blew through the basic framework of the determinism debate, since any debate of any length invariably ends at "it's impossible to know, and ultimately irrelevant anyway."
I mean.
"Omigod, the universe is deterministic! What should we do about that?" has kind of a glaring flaw.
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I'm glad the show just kind of blew through the basic framework of the determinism debate, since any debate of any length invariably ends at "it's impossible to know, and ultimately irrelevant anyway."
I mean.
"Omigod, the universe is deterministic! What should we do about that?" has kind of a glaring flaw.
At that point we all end up eating marshmallow candy chili
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I think that was the point. A lot of people have stories about their parents being horrible shits when they were kids but redeeming themselves as grandparents. Or doing exactly what Eleanor's mom did and being better person to a new family. Those people don't get much representation in television and its nice they can get their experiences validated for once.
I wonder if this is foreshadowing. If people in a cryo chamber don’t count as “dead” if it gets turned off Tahani’s dear Mother and Father could find themselves newly in the afterlife. Hijinks ensue.
Oh once you freeze yourself youre dead. Even if we figure out how to do cryo right its unlikely people frozen now would have been preserved correctly
Don't current cryogenic services just cut off and freeze your head in the hopes that eventually brain-mapping technology will be able to overcome the damage done by freezing?
Oh I didn;t think she'd get into the Good Place because that's impossible, but a do over life while abandoning your daughter? Just didn't work for me.
Yeah, but who can judge her while she is still alive? She is there for a child, makes her man happy and seems to have a positive effect on her local community. Taking her away (either by forcing her to run off again or by killing her) would be bad for those people.
so by their system if you're awful for most f your life you'll never make up the difference
Yes, but whoever would have decided to punish this woman now, would have done harm to more people than just Eleanor's mom.
I had to rewrite the above a few times. It also made me wonder how the Judge would judge a judge. Sending people to jail is often a punishment not just for the perpetrator, but also for innocent people around them.
Unless you're Mindy.
And it was forking great.
Also, when did they get to Arizona? I thought they were in Nevada with Elanor's mom.
"Mother introduced her in maternity ward as her little sister"
"Dad forgot her birthday, changed birth certificate so he wasn't wrong"
Enemies - Neil Degrasse Tyson, one sided (His side).
There was a quick cut, once it was on her head, where it was back on her shoulder while she and Tahani were talking to the Tahani-taur. My wife and I thought maybe it was supposed to be on her shoulder the whole time, but ended up crawling onto her head and they just ran with it. Gotta say it was quite adorable perched on top of Elanor's head.
I thought Eleanor was going to be able to ride it for some more ship teasing.
We need more contextless quick-cuts of the various reboots (ie purple Chidi orb). They're brilliant.
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Which if true raises questions about anyone’s capability or responsibilities in being good or bad or any point system or good place or bad place or judges
Not addressing what determinism means for the entire concept of the show is a bit of a failure
Not as much as Eleanor not riding centahini though
It's one of the philosophical questions like the existence of reality that most philosophers eventually decide to handwave away anyway, so it really didn't bother me that they didn't want to dwell on it too much here. Moral questions are clearly the focus of the show's interests.
Apparently, according to the podcast, the Iguana was supposed to be on her shoulder. It just climbed on top of her head without a cue and Kristen Bell being the amazing professional she is just let it be an Iguana. I am actually thoroughly disappointed in the editors for using that quick shot of the iguana on her shoulder.
Also, according to the podcast, the real restaurant that scene was shot at actually is closing down for a week to shoot porn. Oh, and that it would take $3,000 to $3500 to rent a giraffe for the day. That's just the animal price though, and doesnt include trainer or transport fees.
https://www.strawpoll.me/16816211/r
I think it's also possible that some of the people making The Good Place could accept determinism as a possibility but be afraid to endorse it too much. The idea that whether a person is good or bad is ultimately beyond their control throws a lot of societal concepts into question and is very difficult for a lot of people to grasp.
However, Michael and Janet are already questioning the system behind the afterlife, so you think he'd be more interested in the concept. He's throwing away the possibility that maybe no one deserves to go to the Bad Place for their misdeeds or the Good Place for their good deeds just because he wants to believe in free will.
Do you mean in the world of the show or in real life? In real life there doesn't have to be anyone pulling the strings. I thought it was odd that Eleanor assumed for determinism to be true there would have to be beings that even Michael was unaware of.
I mean.
"Omigod, the universe is deterministic! What should we do about that?" has kind of a glaring flaw.
At that point we all end up eating marshmallow candy chili
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Tycho? I thought you didn’t read the forums?