{The EU claims are} breezily dismissed by British ministers, including the foreign secretary, with suggestions that the value of prosecco, BMW and cheese exports will guarantee the UK a good deal
The Guardian's snark is getting better by the day.
Gonna be a hell of a Wile E. Coyote moment when the UK is balls deep in the two year exit window and they finally realize that things just aren't going to go their way.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
Best the UK can realistically hope for is a favoured country trade deal with associated tariffs. I guess the UK taxpayers will have to pick up the bill on all those promises.
The British government’s key Brexit red lines – controlling EU immigration, ending the jurisdiction of the European court of justice, calling time on further big EU budget contributions – are by now well known, set out first in speeches by Theresa May and later confirmed in a government white paper.
But what of the EU’s red lines? Here we map the concerns, priorities and demands of each of the UK’s 27 negotiating partners. Some are shared, more or less, by all; others are strictly national. All will play a part in the deal Britain gets – because Brexit also means what the EU27 want it to mean.
The British government’s key Brexit red lines – controlling EU immigration, ending the jurisdiction of the European court of justice, calling time on further big EU budget contributions – are by now well known, set out first in speeches by Theresa May and later confirmed in a government white paper.
But what of the EU’s red lines? Here we map the concerns, priorities and demands of each of the UK’s 27 negotiating partners. Some are shared, more or less, by all; others are strictly national. All will play a part in the deal Britain gets – because Brexit also means what the EU27 want it to mean.
already more work than anybody in the actual government has done
The British government’s key Brexit red lines – controlling EU immigration, ending the jurisdiction of the European court of justice, calling time on further big EU budget contributions – are by now well known, set out first in speeches by Theresa May and later confirmed in a government white paper.
But what of the EU’s red lines? Here we map the concerns, priorities and demands of each of the UK’s 27 negotiating partners. Some are shared, more or less, by all; others are strictly national. All will play a part in the deal Britain gets – because Brexit also means what the EU27 want it to mean.
already more work than anybody in the actual government has done
Oh I'm sure the civil service has done all this work...and the dossiers are sitting in a lot of inboxes.
The British government’s key Brexit red lines – controlling EU immigration, ending the jurisdiction of the European court of justice, calling time on further big EU budget contributions – are by now well known, set out first in speeches by Theresa May and later confirmed in a government white paper.
But what of the EU’s red lines? Here we map the concerns, priorities and demands of each of the UK’s 27 negotiating partners. Some are shared, more or less, by all; others are strictly national. All will play a part in the deal Britain gets – because Brexit also means what the EU27 want it to mean.
already more work than anybody in the actual government has done
Oh I'm sure the civil service has done all this work...and the dossiers are sitting in a lot of inboxes.
Yeah, there are briefing documents and memos with things like 'WE CANNOT POSSIBLY ACHIEVE ALL OF THESE GOALS' in red ink, and someone has just scribbled 'Jam! Prosecco!' underneath.
In my imagination it's written in crayon, but that may be me being uncharitable.
Also, I vote we change the thread title to "Brexit, pursued by a Blair"
Unfortunately due to my accidental performance of naughty postings I shall not be able to update the thread name for another week.
Please remind me on the 28th of February and I'll definitely update it, because damn if I could find anything in that speech I disagreed with, especially the right wing cartel in the media.
We can always save it for the next thread. I know these threads are comparatively slow, but we're only 16 or so pages off a new one. Unless something even funnier that rhymes with bear happens in the meantime :P
The British government’s key Brexit red lines – controlling EU immigration, ending the jurisdiction of the European court of justice, calling time on further big EU budget contributions – are by now well known, set out first in speeches by Theresa May and later confirmed in a government white paper.
But what of the EU’s red lines? Here we map the concerns, priorities and demands of each of the UK’s 27 negotiating partners. Some are shared, more or less, by all; others are strictly national. All will play a part in the deal Britain gets – because Brexit also means what the EU27 want it to mean.
That seems to confirm something I thought was probably going to be the case. If the EU want to isolate the UK from the single market for pulling back on the four freedoms, they're going to need to cut a good deal with us, because Ireland is economically realiant on the UK and even more vulnerable than it. And we know it.
On the plus side, it looks like Enda Kenny isn't budging an inch on the four freedoms. If/when he steps down I don't know if his successor would have the same attitude. My instincts say yes, but I can't be sure.
*edit* We should also probably discuss the fact that while Ireland is clearly the key to the UK getting any kind of decent deal with the EU, since we're the largest exporter to the UK and want to avoid a return to the hard border at almost any cost, Theresa May and the rest of the Tories have barely acknowledged that we exist.
{The EU claims are} breezily dismissed by British ministers, including the foreign secretary, with suggestions that the value of prosecco, BMW and cheese exports will guarantee the UK a good deal
The Guardian's snark is getting better by the day.
Gonna be a hell of a Wile E. Coyote moment when the UK is balls deep in the two year exit window and they finally realize that things just aren't going to go their way.
If it's any consolation, half of us know that already. Sadly none of the government appear to do so.
It's going to be insane and I can't believe we're so desperate to do it
I'm still grasping the tiny, glass-shard sliver of hope that is associate EU membership. I will *throw* money at the EU to keep my EU citizenship. I mean I don't have a lot of it, but what I have, I will throw.
{The EU claims are} breezily dismissed by British ministers, including the foreign secretary, with suggestions that the value of prosecco, BMW and cheese exports will guarantee the UK a good deal
The Guardian's snark is getting better by the day.
Gonna be a hell of a Wile E. Coyote moment when the UK is balls deep in the two year exit window and they finally realize that things just aren't going to go their way.
If it's any consolation, half of us know that already. Sadly none of the government appear to do so.
Bosh. Many, probably even most, of the government understand it perfectly well.
{The EU claims are} breezily dismissed by British ministers, including the foreign secretary, with suggestions that the value of prosecco, BMW and cheese exports will guarantee the UK a good deal
The Guardian's snark is getting better by the day.
Gonna be a hell of a Wile E. Coyote moment when the UK is balls deep in the two year exit window and they finally realize that things just aren't going to go their way.
I don't think they ever will, or admit it.
For the same reason that I doubt our idiot's base will ever abandon him: that would require (1) perceiving reality outside their bubble, and (2) admitting they made a mistake.
The British government’s key Brexit red lines – controlling EU immigration, ending the jurisdiction of the European court of justice, calling time on further big EU budget contributions – are by now well known, set out first in speeches by Theresa May and later confirmed in a government white paper.
But what of the EU’s red lines? Here we map the concerns, priorities and demands of each of the UK’s 27 negotiating partners. Some are shared, more or less, by all; others are strictly national. All will play a part in the deal Britain gets – because Brexit also means what the EU27 want it to mean.
I think the telling quote in there is the one about it being a damage limitation exercise.
It wouldn't surprise me if the consensus position coalesces around "everybody's taking some kind of hit from this, we need to make sure the UK bears the brunt of it".
The British government’s key Brexit red lines – controlling EU immigration, ending the jurisdiction of the European court of justice, calling time on further big EU budget contributions – are by now well known, set out first in speeches by Theresa May and later confirmed in a government white paper.
But what of the EU’s red lines? Here we map the concerns, priorities and demands of each of the UK’s 27 negotiating partners. Some are shared, more or less, by all; others are strictly national. All will play a part in the deal Britain gets – because Brexit also means what the EU27 want it to mean.
I think the telling quote in there is the one about it being a damage limitation exercise.
It wouldn't surprise me if the consensus position coalesces around "everybody's taking some kind of hit from this, we need to make sure the UK bears the brunt of it".
...which, if they want a deal ratified, means being extra nice to Ireland.
The British government’s key Brexit red lines – controlling EU immigration, ending the jurisdiction of the European court of justice, calling time on further big EU budget contributions – are by now well known, set out first in speeches by Theresa May and later confirmed in a government white paper.
But what of the EU’s red lines? Here we map the concerns, priorities and demands of each of the UK’s 27 negotiating partners. Some are shared, more or less, by all; others are strictly national. All will play a part in the deal Britain gets – because Brexit also means what the EU27 want it to mean.
I think the telling quote in there is the one about it being a damage limitation exercise.
It wouldn't surprise me if the consensus position coalesces around "everybody's taking some kind of hit from this, we need to make sure the UK bears the brunt of it".
...which, if they want a deal ratified, means being extra nice to Ireland.
I'm ok with this!
I think you are quite correct.
And am genuinely sad it has come to this.
I wonder if I can convince the company to open a branch office.
The British government’s key Brexit red lines – controlling EU immigration, ending the jurisdiction of the European court of justice, calling time on further big EU budget contributions – are by now well known, set out first in speeches by Theresa May and later confirmed in a government white paper.
But what of the EU’s red lines? Here we map the concerns, priorities and demands of each of the UK’s 27 negotiating partners. Some are shared, more or less, by all; others are strictly national. All will play a part in the deal Britain gets – because Brexit also means what the EU27 want it to mean.
I think the telling quote in there is the one about it being a damage limitation exercise.
It wouldn't surprise me if the consensus position coalesces around "everybody's taking some kind of hit from this, we need to make sure the UK bears the brunt of it".
Or, more likely, "The UK is screwing all of us just to get off from having to deal with free movement of labor and refugees, so let's make them an example". Sad part is, trying to make "examples" out of countries (read: Greece) is a big part of why there's this mess. Also, that France quote is particulary spiteful, more emotional than the Germany one, Hollande seems scared shitless of Le Pen.
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daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
The British government’s key Brexit red lines – controlling EU immigration, ending the jurisdiction of the European court of justice, calling time on further big EU budget contributions – are by now well known, set out first in speeches by Theresa May and later confirmed in a government white paper.
But what of the EU’s red lines? Here we map the concerns, priorities and demands of each of the UK’s 27 negotiating partners. Some are shared, more or less, by all; others are strictly national. All will play a part in the deal Britain gets – because Brexit also means what the EU27 want it to mean.
I think the telling quote in there is the one about it being a damage limitation exercise.
It wouldn't surprise me if the consensus position coalesces around "everybody's taking some kind of hit from this, we need to make sure the UK bears the brunt of it".
...which, if they want a deal ratified, means being extra nice to Ireland.
I'm ok with this!
I'm not sure that you should be particularly psyched here. There's pretty much a guarantee that Brexit will end up breaking some portion of the Good Friday Accords, and needing to cut a good deal with Ireland could easily end up getting spun as the UK holding Ireland hostage, which would do wonders for the whole situation. I don't know exactly how much inertia has built up from being in a relative peaceful state, but Brexit probably isn't going to help things.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
Looking at the metro this morning it seems like the propaganda push to destroy the house of Lords has begun.
Less than a year ago they were heroes for bucking the democratic system to stop the government from reducing disability benefit. Now they are villains just because they might do something.
Looking at the metro this morning it seems like the propaganda push to destroy the house of Lords has begun.
Less than a year ago they were heroes for bucking the democratic system to stop the government from reducing disability benefit. Now they are villains just because they might do something.
fickle does not even begin to cover it.
The media barons didn't care about disability benefits (and outrage sells papers), they do care about brexit and will villainise any opposition.
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
Some of the cuts aren't as dire as they might appear, there are areas where expensive services are duplicated because centralising them plays out in the media as closures and that's electoral poison.
What is a bit of a worry is the dearth of planning in England for transferring workload into the social care system. Scotland's trying to implement that at the moment via the integration joint boards and it hasn't been simple. It should realise a lot of savings in the long run, but it isn't a quick win, and the situation in England with trusts is considerably more complex than that with regional NHS boards in Scotland.
The British government’s key Brexit red lines – controlling EU immigration, ending the jurisdiction of the European court of justice, calling time on further big EU budget contributions – are by now well known, set out first in speeches by Theresa May and later confirmed in a government white paper.
But what of the EU’s red lines? Here we map the concerns, priorities and demands of each of the UK’s 27 negotiating partners. Some are shared, more or less, by all; others are strictly national. All will play a part in the deal Britain gets – because Brexit also means what the EU27 want it to mean.
I think the telling quote in there is the one about it being a damage limitation exercise.
It wouldn't surprise me if the consensus position coalesces around "everybody's taking some kind of hit from this, we need to make sure the UK bears the brunt of it".
...which, if they want a deal ratified, means being extra nice to Ireland.
I'm ok with this!
I'm not sure that you should be particularly psyched here. There's pretty much a guarantee that Brexit will end up breaking some portion of the Good Friday Accords, and needing to cut a good deal with Ireland could easily end up getting spun as the UK holding Ireland hostage, which would do wonders for the whole situation. I don't know exactly how much inertia has built up from being in a relative peaceful state, but Brexit probably isn't going to help things.
People on both sides of the border have been pointing out that Brexit would smash the Good Friday Agreement since long before the referendum happened. It's one of the main reasons NI voted to Remain. It's also something I and others pointed out in this thread was getting next to no attention from the UK Government. It STILL isn't. When was the last time you heard an MP address it?
The UK aren't going to hold us hostage because holding this pathetic referendum was holding a gun to our temple, and last summer Britain voted to pull the trigger. It's done. The foundation of the Agreement has been hollowed out from underneath. The ship has sailed. The horse has bolted. The bag is entirely devoid of cats.
So you'll forgive me if I'll spend the next couple of years concentrating on (and pushing for) any potential upside for my country since the potential downside of something we had no say or part is a return to the hard border, our economy being reduced to a smoking ruin and the return to a terrorist conflict that very nearly claimed the lives of my parents before I was born.
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Gonna be a hell of a Wile E. Coyote moment when the UK is balls deep in the two year exit window and they finally realize that things just aren't going to go their way.
This whole business is like Project Hold My Beer.
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Best the UK can realistically hope for is a favoured country trade deal with associated tariffs. I guess the UK taxpayers will have to pick up the bill on all those promises.
already more work than anybody in the actual government has done
Oh I'm sure the civil service has done all this work...and the dossiers are sitting in a lot of inboxes.
Yeah, there are briefing documents and memos with things like 'WE CANNOT POSSIBLY ACHIEVE ALL OF THESE GOALS' in red ink, and someone has just scribbled 'Jam! Prosecco!' underneath.
In my imagination it's written in crayon, but that may be me being uncharitable.
Just so you know
We can always save it for the next thread. I know these threads are comparatively slow, but we're only 16 or so pages off a new one. Unless something even funnier that rhymes with bear happens in the meantime :P
That seems to confirm something I thought was probably going to be the case. If the EU want to isolate the UK from the single market for pulling back on the four freedoms, they're going to need to cut a good deal with us, because Ireland is economically realiant on the UK and even more vulnerable than it. And we know it.
On the plus side, it looks like Enda Kenny isn't budging an inch on the four freedoms. If/when he steps down I don't know if his successor would have the same attitude. My instincts say yes, but I can't be sure.
*edit* We should also probably discuss the fact that while Ireland is clearly the key to the UK getting any kind of decent deal with the EU, since we're the largest exporter to the UK and want to avoid a return to the hard border at almost any cost, Theresa May and the rest of the Tories have barely acknowledged that we exist.
If it's any consolation, half of us know that already. Sadly none of the government appear to do so.
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Downing Street, on the other hand, are oddly reluctant to confirm this.
I'm still grasping the tiny, glass-shard sliver of hope that is associate EU membership. I will *throw* money at the EU to keep my EU citizenship. I mean I don't have a lot of it, but what I have, I will throw.
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51.9% equals 100% apparently.
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hah
That's not how you spell Birmingham.
Bosh. Many, probably even most, of the government understand it perfectly well.
No he meant the Carlisle Arms in Soho.
fair enough.
Didn't all the whips rebel too?
I don't think they ever will, or admit it.
For the same reason that I doubt our idiot's base will ever abandon him: that would require (1) perceiving reality outside their bubble, and (2) admitting they made a mistake.
I think the telling quote in there is the one about it being a damage limitation exercise.
It wouldn't surprise me if the consensus position coalesces around "everybody's taking some kind of hit from this, we need to make sure the UK bears the brunt of it".
...which, if they want a deal ratified, means being extra nice to Ireland.
I'm ok with this!
I think you are quite correct.
And am genuinely sad it has come to this.
I wonder if I can convince the company to open a branch office.
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who whips the whips (whips)
Or, more likely, "The UK is screwing all of us just to get off from having to deal with free movement of labor and refugees, so let's make them an example". Sad part is, trying to make "examples" out of countries (read: Greece) is a big part of why there's this mess. Also, that France quote is particulary spiteful, more emotional than the Germany one, Hollande seems scared shitless of Le Pen.
I'm not sure that you should be particularly psyched here. There's pretty much a guarantee that Brexit will end up breaking some portion of the Good Friday Accords, and needing to cut a good deal with Ireland could easily end up getting spun as the UK holding Ireland hostage, which would do wonders for the whole situation. I don't know exactly how much inertia has built up from being in a relative peaceful state, but Brexit probably isn't going to help things.
Less than a year ago they were heroes for bucking the democratic system to stop the government from reducing disability benefit. Now they are villains just because they might do something.
fickle does not even begin to cover it.
The state is beset at all times, from all sides. :evil:
The media barons didn't care about disability benefits (and outrage sells papers), they do care about brexit and will villainise any opposition.
Good times ahead, friendos.
350 million a week.
What is a bit of a worry is the dearth of planning in England for transferring workload into the social care system. Scotland's trying to implement that at the moment via the integration joint boards and it hasn't been simple. It should realise a lot of savings in the long run, but it isn't a quick win, and the situation in England with trusts is considerably more complex than that with regional NHS boards in Scotland.
People on both sides of the border have been pointing out that Brexit would smash the Good Friday Agreement since long before the referendum happened. It's one of the main reasons NI voted to Remain. It's also something I and others pointed out in this thread was getting next to no attention from the UK Government. It STILL isn't. When was the last time you heard an MP address it?
The UK aren't going to hold us hostage because holding this pathetic referendum was holding a gun to our temple, and last summer Britain voted to pull the trigger. It's done. The foundation of the Agreement has been hollowed out from underneath. The ship has sailed. The horse has bolted. The bag is entirely devoid of cats.
So you'll forgive me if I'll spend the next couple of years concentrating on (and pushing for) any potential upside for my country since the potential downside of something we had no say or part is a return to the hard border, our economy being reduced to a smoking ruin and the return to a terrorist conflict that very nearly claimed the lives of my parents before I was born.