I may have a stronger sense of doing what is best for everyone to have the best experience over my own experience though.
this is cool of you and an excellent thing!
but it is also cool if someone else who plays this game does not have that same priority; it doesn't make them better or worse than you, they're just different
I mean the counter-argument could be that you end up with a smaller player roster because you won't actually get as much practice in with the other heroes you want to try!
again, it is your prerogative to play how you want, and ftr I do prefer to play with people like you
but not 100% of Overwatch players have that same philosophy, and if we end up with someone like that on our team that we can't reason with and we are not going to change their minds in 60s of setup time, then we work around it
I mixed up those clips with my mystery heroes clips.
A very Junkrat move. Kudos.
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VivixenneRemember your training, and we'll get through this just fine.Registered Userregular
edited January 2017
in terms of anecdotal experience, I'd say I've seen way more people grief a given "troll pick" hero than the "troll pick" hero act like a goose about it
it's still not okay EITHER WAY, don't be geese
treat others as you'd like to be treated, because like I said, there are several threads' worth of evidence that most posters here feel LESS obligated to change from ANY hero (not just Widow) when someone straight-up asks them to
again: there's nothing wrong with that because that's just part of being a human, but it'd help to keep that in mind whenever this particular discussion comes up
Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
edited January 2017
I mean I mostly agree with you, ESPECIALLY on number 5. I think that became clear in my little story.
I did not really note all those points in your posts but like I said I might have come in a bit late. I mostly saw you stating that you thought it likely the rest of the team was as much to blame for that person being banned and thus should be themselves, when he pointed out that almost all evidence leads to the contrary. On that specific case. But I also was kind of getting the impression that you felt in similar cases it was more an issue with the rest of the team and when an individual doesn't change that they really should be allowed to get away with that. Personally I think they should, assuming they have the right mindset (which means they are doing it for reasons that at least could possibly make sense, and not just because they absolutely do not want to work with others at all).
Part of being a good team as a whole is being able to voice that you think someone might be hurting their team with their character choice. It can be done without being offensive, and the person has just as much a right to tell them they are wrong as the team has to tell them what they think. Everyone should be able to communicate their issues. If either side becomes verbally abusive about it though, well of course that is bad. Becoming verbally abusive is bad no matter if you are suggesting someone pick a different character or pick a different favorite food. I also think its possible to feel someone should be on a different character and still not be blaming them for the teams failure. That kind of is the type of game this is. Character choice is largely a team construct so the team sometimes needs to decide on it as a whole. Of course, this is more likely a high level play issue as in most matches (even in competitive) teamwork is more an accident even if you are trying for it.
Edit: I should add that, I end up solo queueing a lot and I rarely run into these issues in any form. I have played like 5 rounds in a row with someone who never picked anything but Widow. They were pretty good, not great. They did it on offense and defense. Their team won and lost. No one ever said a word about it. Maybe I am just lucky, but it doesn't even seem to be a huge issue to me overall. I think its more memetic than anything.
Kai_San on
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VivixenneRemember your training, and we'll get through this just fine.Registered Userregular
I mean I mostly agree with you, ESPECIALLY on number 5. I think that became clear in my little story.
I did not really note all those points in your posts but like I said I might have come in a bit late. I mostly saw you stating that you thought it likely the rest of the team was as much to blame for that person being banned and thus should be themselves, when he pointed out that almost all evidence leads to the contrary. On that specific case. But I also was kind of getting the impression that you felt in similar cases it was more an issue with the rest of the team and when an individual doesn't change that they really should be allowed to get away with that. Personally I think they should, assuming they have the right mindset (which means they are doing it for reasons that at least could possibly make sense, and not just because they absolutely do not want to work with others at all).
Part of being a good team as a whole is being able to voice that you think someone might be hurting their team with their character choice. It can be done without being offensive, and the person has just as much a right to tell them they are wrong as the team has to tell them what they think. Everyone should be able to communicate their issues. If either side becomes verbally abusive about it though, well of course that is bad. Becoming verbally abusive is bad no matter if you are suggesting someone pick a different character or pick a different favorite food. I also think its possible to feel someone should be on a different character and still not be blaming them for the teams failure. That kind of is the type of game this is. Character choice is largely a team construct so the team sometimes needs to decide on it as a whole. Of course, this is more likely a high level play issue as in most matches (even in competitive) teamwork is more an accident even if you are trying for it.
See I agree with this post 100%. There IS a way to ask someone to change while being positive about it, and I've found (anecdotally) that it works best when the ENTIRE TEAM is asked "what should WE change?"
Once you target a single person - politely or not - it sets up a dynamic where somehow THEY're the reason we're losing, and even if they're okay with it, the rest of the team has clocked that, too. But if you come at it as a group - as a team - where everyone is willing to swap, then you've effectively lowered the chances of an abusive situation arising, you get better feedback AND you maintain positivity. When using this approach, I've seen that we usually get volunteers to change from people who KNOW they aren't being productive. Granted, there are limited opportunities to do this in a match and you do have weigh up losing ult charges, but there are multiple rounds in a match, too!
That's not a tactic specific to Overwatch, btw, it's just how we as humans work. No one likes to be singled out for a failure, even if they AGREE that it could have been their fault. The whole point is to set up a dynamic where a loss or a win is SHARED, and as such it's not just one person's job to change shit around if it's not working.
VivixenneRemember your training, and we'll get through this just fine.Registered Userregular
edited January 2017
there's a lot of fascinating psychology and sociology happening in this game, actually, which I think I enjoy breaking down given that it's my area of passion
like, how Mei is universally reviled and called "Satan" and the "Devil" and stuff
Roadhog actually functions in a similar way - stun then damage++ - and while he does get a fair share of vitriol, it's nothing compared to what players feel when they die to a Mei
and it's actually psychological; Roadhog's hook is an instant stun and at some stage most players accept the helplessness straight away and will just pray that they survive the blast to respond
but when a Mei is freezing you, it's a long, drawn-out affair
it's like torture... you feel yourself slowing down, you're fighting back, her health is lowering, you feel a glimmer of hope, you've alllllmoooooost survived... and then you become a frozen statue, and she walks up, all smiles, cool as a cucumber, and shoots your statue in the face and you die
the fighting back and the slow freeze brings you hope that you're going to survive, only to completely shut you down and make you call Mei an actual demon - again, it's like torture
whereas with Roadhogs you almost mentally surrender the moment you know you've been hooked, and if it's a bullshit hook it's a problem with the game, NOT the Roadhog player, and if you survive, it's a matter of luck
like, watching players talk about it across a range of media, both jokingly and in actual frustration, is just really interesting
VivixenneRemember your training, and we'll get through this just fine.Registered Userregular
Mei is always a good time for me because I will choose her in QP when our team has no healer and I don't feel like playing healer myself
it's like, I'll get some good practice with her, I can heal myself as required, etc
and if the team starts asking each other to play a healer, I can safely opt out of that discussion by saying that I'm fine with or without one, then go on my meirry way channeling Satan
Mei is always a good time for me because I will choose her in QP when our team has no healer and I don't feel like playing healer myself
it's like, I'll get some good practice with her, I can heal myself as required, etc
and if the team starts asking each other to play a healer, I can safely opt out of that discussion by saying that I'm fine with or without one, then go on my meirry way channeling Satan
I take Mei when I feel it'll be fun, or when I'm not gettin' heals as a tank. I still function very much as protection and damage mitigation for my team, but I'm suddenly way more survivable. And scary. I mean, all the tanks can be super-scary - but it's a lot harder to accomplish without a good healer.
Chance on
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
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KoopahTroopahThe koopas, the troopas.Philadelphia, PARegistered Userregular
According to PvPlive, the skins are...
Zenyatta - Tang Sanzang skin. (Sun Wukong's Buddhism master)
Winston - Sun Wukong skin. (The monkey king, confirming the tease from Ecopoint: Antartica)
Roadhog - Zhu Bajie skin. (The pig monster, another apprentice of Tang Sanzang)
Reinhardt - Sha Heshang skin. (The river monster, yet another apprentice of Tang Sanzang)
So it's very Journey-to-the-West.
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
Oh. If it is an actual full event on par with Halloween/Mei's thing like they supposedly told... someone (Polygon I think), then I can absolutely see a Junkenstein's castle type deal with Journey to the West stuff.
A Blizzard spokesperson confirmed to Polygon that Overwatch’s Year of the Rooster event will be similar in scope to previous game events, such as Halloween Terror and Winter Wonderland. Those limited-time events included new character skins, sprays, voice lines, emotes and other cosmetic items. They also featured new gameplay modes, like Junkenstein’s Revenge and Mei’s Snowball Offensive.
That and Rein, yeah. Between those and the Mei and D.Va skins, this even't lookin' pretty good.
I will be kinda' surprised if there aren't new legendaries for Genji and at least Hanzo. McCree, Hanzo, Sombra, Ana, Soldier, Pharah, Bastion, Widow, Lucio and Sym have never received a new Legendary skin either - and this makes the 2nd new legendary for Zen, 2nd for Winston, 3rd for Hog (was Reinhog legendary?), 2nd for Rein. Or wait actually 3rd for Rein 'cause there were two variations of the Eichenwalde skin.
Like, you have cast members who've only ever gotten recolors, Blizz.
Chance on
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
Chinese New Year isn't really a big thing in Japan so Hanzo and Genji very well might get nothing. It exists, but it's not widely celebrated nor a public holiday. About on the level of something like Valentine's or Mother's Day.
ArcTangent on
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
Sombra and Lucio have gotten new legendary skins from events. Peppermint and Striker.
Sombra and Lucio have gotten new legendary skins from events. Peppermint and Striker.
Ahhh forgot about Striker. Is Peppermint seriously a legendary?! (Checks) Nope.
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
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KoopahTroopahThe koopas, the troopas.Philadelphia, PARegistered Userregular
edited January 2017
I would imagine that they just have meetings to brainstorm new skin ideas and whatever works works, regardless on if the character has skins already or not. I agree that I would like some better variation, especially since I don't really enjoy playing Rein, Winston, or Roadhog. But then again that's just that many coins that are going to get spent on other cosmetics for the heroes I do play.
I get the feeling, especially from HotS's "year of Warcraft assassins", that Blizzard doesn't really do much (if any) planning for these kinds of things.
Added Eichenwalde, Route 66, Oasis, and Ecopoint to their respective map categories (Wow, I haven't updated since Route 66??? Oops.)
Edit -- Moved Eichenwalde, Numbani, Hollywood, and King's Row to a new category called Hybrid Maps. Hybrids maps are combinations of the other modes, usually both Control and Payload.
Any suggestions or feedback for how to update the OP or things to add are welcome.
Numbani: Africa is a payload map in the same way that Eichenwalde: Germany, Hollywood: USA and King's Row: England are. Should those be a separate category of hybrid maps?
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KoopahTroopahThe koopas, the troopas.Philadelphia, PARegistered Userregular
Yeah, I was just being lazy, they should be in their own category called Hybrid. What are all the hybrid maps now? Numbani, Eichenwalde, Hollywood, and King's Row?
Numbani: Africa is a payload map in the same way that Eichenwalde: Germany, Hollywood: USA and King's Row: England are. Should those be a separate category of hybrid maps?
Accidentally clicked mystery duel instead of mystery heroes. Said fuck but figured I'd try to grind through a game mode I don't care for rather than just drop.
Five seconds in the other player dropped and I won.
Perfect win :cool:
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
Wouldn't....wouldn't it make sense to make Junkrat an actual rat then for the chinese new year?
Australia's like an hour away from China too, WTF.
Posts
this is cool of you and an excellent thing!
but it is also cool if someone else who plays this game does not have that same priority; it doesn't make them better or worse than you, they're just different
I mean the counter-argument could be that you end up with a smaller player roster because you won't actually get as much practice in with the other heroes you want to try!
again, it is your prerogative to play how you want, and ftr I do prefer to play with people like you
but not 100% of Overwatch players have that same philosophy, and if we end up with someone like that on our team that we can't reason with and we are not going to change their minds in 60s of setup time, then we work around it
A very Junkrat move. Kudos.
it's still not okay EITHER WAY, don't be geese
treat others as you'd like to be treated, because like I said, there are several threads' worth of evidence that most posters here feel LESS obligated to change from ANY hero (not just Widow) when someone straight-up asks them to
again: there's nothing wrong with that because that's just part of being a human, but it'd help to keep that in mind whenever this particular discussion comes up
I did not really note all those points in your posts but like I said I might have come in a bit late. I mostly saw you stating that you thought it likely the rest of the team was as much to blame for that person being banned and thus should be themselves, when he pointed out that almost all evidence leads to the contrary. On that specific case. But I also was kind of getting the impression that you felt in similar cases it was more an issue with the rest of the team and when an individual doesn't change that they really should be allowed to get away with that. Personally I think they should, assuming they have the right mindset (which means they are doing it for reasons that at least could possibly make sense, and not just because they absolutely do not want to work with others at all).
Part of being a good team as a whole is being able to voice that you think someone might be hurting their team with their character choice. It can be done without being offensive, and the person has just as much a right to tell them they are wrong as the team has to tell them what they think. Everyone should be able to communicate their issues. If either side becomes verbally abusive about it though, well of course that is bad. Becoming verbally abusive is bad no matter if you are suggesting someone pick a different character or pick a different favorite food. I also think its possible to feel someone should be on a different character and still not be blaming them for the teams failure. That kind of is the type of game this is. Character choice is largely a team construct so the team sometimes needs to decide on it as a whole. Of course, this is more likely a high level play issue as in most matches (even in competitive) teamwork is more an accident even if you are trying for it.
Edit: I should add that, I end up solo queueing a lot and I rarely run into these issues in any form. I have played like 5 rounds in a row with someone who never picked anything but Widow. They were pretty good, not great. They did it on offense and defense. Their team won and lost. No one ever said a word about it. Maybe I am just lucky, but it doesn't even seem to be a huge issue to me overall. I think its more memetic than anything.
See I agree with this post 100%. There IS a way to ask someone to change while being positive about it, and I've found (anecdotally) that it works best when the ENTIRE TEAM is asked "what should WE change?"
Once you target a single person - politely or not - it sets up a dynamic where somehow THEY're the reason we're losing, and even if they're okay with it, the rest of the team has clocked that, too. But if you come at it as a group - as a team - where everyone is willing to swap, then you've effectively lowered the chances of an abusive situation arising, you get better feedback AND you maintain positivity. When using this approach, I've seen that we usually get volunteers to change from people who KNOW they aren't being productive. Granted, there are limited opportunities to do this in a match and you do have weigh up losing ult charges, but there are multiple rounds in a match, too!
That's not a tactic specific to Overwatch, btw, it's just how we as humans work. No one likes to be singled out for a failure, even if they AGREE that it could have been their fault. The whole point is to set up a dynamic where a loss or a win is SHARED, and as such it's not just one person's job to change shit around if it's not working.
like, how Mei is universally reviled and called "Satan" and the "Devil" and stuff
Roadhog actually functions in a similar way - stun then damage++ - and while he does get a fair share of vitriol, it's nothing compared to what players feel when they die to a Mei
and it's actually psychological; Roadhog's hook is an instant stun and at some stage most players accept the helplessness straight away and will just pray that they survive the blast to respond
but when a Mei is freezing you, it's a long, drawn-out affair
it's like torture... you feel yourself slowing down, you're fighting back, her health is lowering, you feel a glimmer of hope, you've alllllmoooooost survived... and then you become a frozen statue, and she walks up, all smiles, cool as a cucumber, and shoots your statue in the face and you die
the fighting back and the slow freeze brings you hope that you're going to survive, only to completely shut you down and make you call Mei an actual demon - again, it's like torture
whereas with Roadhogs you almost mentally surrender the moment you know you've been hooked, and if it's a bullshit hook it's a problem with the game, NOT the Roadhog player, and if you survive, it's a matter of luck
like, watching players talk about it across a range of media, both jokingly and in actual frustration, is just really interesting
https://gfycat.com/SarcasticFavoriteEstuarinecrocodile
She has evil powers beyond the fourth wall.
it's like, I'll get some good practice with her, I can heal myself as required, etc
and if the team starts asking each other to play a healer, I can safely opt out of that discussion by saying that I'm fine with or without one, then go on my meirry way channeling Satan
I take Mei when I feel it'll be fun, or when I'm not gettin' heals as a tank. I still function very much as protection and damage mitigation for my team, but I'm suddenly way more survivable. And scary. I mean, all the tanks can be super-scary - but it's a lot harder to accomplish without a good healer.
Hey, I have a friend who plays as DirtyDan and plays Mei...
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
Yet another Streetpig skin? Why does he get so much love?
Zenyatta - Tang Sanzang skin. (Sun Wukong's Buddhism master)
Winston - Sun Wukong skin. (The monkey king, confirming the tease from Ecopoint: Antartica)
Roadhog - Zhu Bajie skin. (The pig monster, another apprentice of Tang Sanzang)
Reinhardt - Sha Heshang skin. (The river monster, yet another apprentice of Tang Sanzang)
So it's very Journey-to-the-West.
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
E:
Yeah, it was Polygon
http://www.polygon.com/2017/1/18/14319662/overwatch-chinese-new-year-event-year-of-the-rooster
That and Rein, yeah. Between those and the Mei and D.Va skins, this even't lookin' pretty good.
I will be kinda' surprised if there aren't new legendaries for Genji and at least Hanzo. McCree, Hanzo, Sombra, Ana, Soldier, Pharah, Bastion, Widow, Lucio and Sym have never received a new Legendary skin either - and this makes the 2nd new legendary for Zen, 2nd for Winston, 3rd for Hog (was Reinhog legendary?), 2nd for Rein. Or wait actually 3rd for Rein 'cause there were two variations of the Eichenwalde skin.
Like, you have cast members who've only ever gotten recolors, Blizz.
Peppermint is an epic.
Ahhh forgot about Striker. Is Peppermint seriously a legendary?! (Checks) Nope.
*shrug* ...Not that I know of.
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
Any suggestions or feedback for how to update the OP or things to add are welcome.
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
Still hate the concept of snipers.
We're getting Chinese inspired skins?
We may be...
The female East Asians got some phenomenal garb. My Korean friends love D.VA in a hanbok (Korean equivalent of a yukata)
Done-zo.
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
Five seconds in the other player dropped and I won.
Perfect win :cool:
Australia's like an hour away from China too, WTF.