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Foreign Policy in the Age of Trump

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    iTunesIsEviliTunesIsEvil Cornfield? Cornfield.Registered User regular
    Gator wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Phyphor wrote: »
    Mr Khan wrote: »
    Polaritie wrote: »
    I saw something over the last few days about a combined EU nuclear program. Is this connected to that or just a bunch of countries that now feel they want in on the MAD game?

    That idea was basically putting French nukes under an EU command structure to have a deterrent force against Russia if we don't back our European allies. Germans developing their own is different and worrying.

    Is Germany not already in the "doesn't have nukes because they haven't felt like it" box though? Like, I'd imagine they only really need to put it together to have one more or less. Actually building them would be worrying though, since it would mean they no longer trusted NATO's threat of MAD to protect them.

    It's the breakdown of the nuclear non-proliferation norm that is worrying more than any specific concern about Germany. And yes, Germany, Japan, and South Korea are definite could be nuclear powers whenever they want basically. There are probably some others. Italy would be if they hadn't closed their nuclear power plants.

    Germany also closed all of their nuke plants, though, so there might be a lagtime for them in getting the fissile material, unlike Japan who literally produces weapons-grade fuel as the waste from their plants. They could have a massive arsenal very quickly if they wanted.

    It's entirely possible they could get it relatively easily from other EU nations

    Or from Japan. Like bum said, though, the main concern is the breakdown in nonproliferation. If Iran doesn't have a nuke within four years it'll be a miracle.

    Japan might try to amend their self-defense clause to allow for nukes and mecha-godzilla deterents.

    Well, a miracle or a hulking crater with millions dead. One of those.

    What

    Iran's not having a nuke within the next 4 years will be due to either:
    1- a miracle.
    2- us having bombed them into a hulking crater with millions dead.

    At least, that's how I read it.

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    lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    In slightly less dramatic, yet still important news:

    Americans applying for NZ citizenship is up 70% since November.

    And no, that doesn't include Peter Thiel.

    I wonder if those numbers are similar elsewhere.

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    honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    Trump Merkel meeting is delayed at least until friday because of storms on the eastcoast.

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    Mx. QuillMx. Quill I now prefer "Myr. Quill", actually... {They/Them}Registered User regular
    honovere wrote: »
    Trump Merkel meeting is delayed at least until friday because of storms on the eastcoast.

    Did Crybaby-in-Chief flee to his "winter White House" to avoid all the big, bad snow?

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    So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    honovere wrote: »
    Trump Merkel meeting is delayed at least until friday because of storms on the eastcoast.

    Did Crybaby-in-Chief flee to his "winter White House" to avoid all the big, bad snow?

    Please don't use nicknames for elected officials in political threads.

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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    honovere wrote: »
    Trump Merkel meeting is delayed at least until friday because of storms on the eastcoast.

    Did Crybaby-in-Chief flee to his "winter White House" to avoid all the big, bad snow?

    Nah, he's meeting with the Saudi Defense minister right now.

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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    Every airport on the east coast is shut down for snow, so that's a singularly stupid thing to say.

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    Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    Is it bad that I'm sort of pleased the snow over there looks set to fuck up our Taoiseach going over to smarm the new administration? Because it's thrown Enda Kenny's trip into chaos and I'm kinda glad.

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    Mr KhanMr Khan Not Everyone WAHHHRegistered User regular
    Is it bad that I'm sort of pleased the snow over there looks set to fuck up our Taoiseach going over to smarm the new administration? Because it's thrown Enda Kenny's trip into chaos and I'm kinda glad.

    Should be gone by Friday, fortunately (this is weak compared to where i used to live, but still a nicer St. Patrick's night would be cool).

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    Mx. QuillMx. Quill I now prefer "Myr. Quill", actually... {They/Them}Registered User regular
    edited March 2017
    Sorry, but I really wouldn't put it past Trump to put the Presidency on hold to head somewhere warm if a snowstorm blew into DC.

    He does so every weekend, a few days wouldn't make a difference to him.

    Mx. Quill on
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    Duke 2.0Duke 2.0 Time Trash Cat Registered User regular
    Sorry, but I really wouldn't put it past Trump to put the Presidency on hold to head somewhere warm if a snowstorm blew into DC.

    He does so every weekend, a few days wouldn't make a difference to him.

    Congress basically shuts down for a few inches of snow. That's just politics.

    VRXwDW7.png
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    Mx. QuillMx. Quill I now prefer "Myr. Quill", actually... {They/Them}Registered User regular
    I legitimately did not know that.

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    Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    The difference is the president is always on the job. Even if they aren't at the White House.

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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Washington DC, as a city, institutionally forgets it snows every years.

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    NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    That seems a fairly global thing.
    I swear it's like a winter tradition in my family to wonder just how the fuck couple inches of snow manages to make so many major cities simply stop working.

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    Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Not everybody preps for an invasion of Russia.

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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited March 2017
    Not everybody preps for an invasion of Russia.

    You do when you live in the Rockies. But having grown up on the Atlantic Seaboard - an area that has its own nicknames for snowstorms - it amazes me how little you have to go south for people to be amazed by snow (as opposed to considering it a four letter word.)

    AngelHedgie on
    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
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    NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    Not everybody preps for an invasion of Russia.
    No, some of us prep for invasion by Russia.
    Increasingly so in recent years.

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    EncEnc A Fool with Compassion Pronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered User regular
    edited March 2017
    What is snow again? # Florida.

    In Foreign Policy news: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-39277729

    Somali Pirates are at it again, will the US snipe them in the face on a major holiday? Or will Trump not authorize our carrier group to help a random ship?

    Enc on
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    Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    Not everybody preps for an invasion of Russia.
    No, some of us prep for invasion by Russia.
    Increasingly so in recent years.

    ...yeah.

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    EinzelEinzel Registered User regular
    edited March 2017
    It's not entirely Trump related (Dutch elections) but this seemed like the best thread to post in. It's a small step but still a good one.
    Far-right populist Geert Wilders was soundly beaten, with PM Rutte claiming victory

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/16/europe/netherlands-dutch-results/

    Einzel on
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    Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    Einzel wrote: »
    It's not entirely Trump related (Dutch elections) but this seemed like the best thread to post in. It's a small step but still a good one.
    Far-right populist Geert Wilders was soundly beaten, with PM Rutte claiming victory

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/16/europe/netherlands-dutch-results/

    It absolutely belongs in this thread, I think. The rise of populism in Europe and the US is a massive issue, and Rutte's victory is a positive sign which has a knock on effect on the strength of the EU going forward.

    The key election happens next month when Le Pen, the Russian backed National Front candidate, tries to become President of France. If she gets in somehow it will be an absolute unmitigated disaster for the EU, and for global security and stability.

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    EclecticGrooveEclecticGroove Registered User regular
    Einzel wrote: »
    It's not entirely Trump related (Dutch elections) but this seemed like the best thread to post in. It's a small step but still a good one.
    Far-right populist Geert Wilders was soundly beaten, with PM Rutte claiming victory

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/16/europe/netherlands-dutch-results/

    It absolutely belongs in this thread, I think. The rise of populism in Europe and the US is a massive issue, and Rutte's victory is a positive sign which has a knock on effect on the strength of the EU going forward.

    The key election happens next month when Le Pen, the Russian backed National Front candidate, tries to become President of France. If she gets in somehow it will be an absolute unmitigated disaster for the EU, and for global security and stability.

    If she does, I'm sure her and Trump will be best buddies until they hate each other.

    I'd give it a year or two tops before they start calling each other out on not doing enough [insert talking point here] or too much [insert other talking point here] about a given subject/thing that is important to each others security/well being/national standing/whatever.

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    Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    Einzel wrote: »
    It's not entirely Trump related (Dutch elections) but this seemed like the best thread to post in. It's a small step but still a good one.
    Far-right populist Geert Wilders was soundly beaten, with PM Rutte claiming victory

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/16/europe/netherlands-dutch-results/

    It absolutely belongs in this thread, I think. The rise of populism in Europe and the US is a massive issue, and Rutte's victory is a positive sign which has a knock on effect on the strength of the EU going forward.

    The key election happens next month when Le Pen, the Russian backed National Front candidate, tries to become President of France. If she gets in somehow it will be an absolute unmitigated disaster for the EU, and for global security and stability.

    If she does, I'm sure her and Trump will be best buddies until they hate each other.

    I'd give it a year or two tops before they start calling each other out on not doing enough [insert talking point here] or too much [insert other talking point here] about a given subject/thing that is important to each others security/well being/national standing/whatever.

    It wouldn't matter. Le Pen is anti-immigration, anti-EU, anti-NATO and pro-Russia. If she becomes President of France she takes one of the permanent seats on the UN Security Council. That council would be Le Pen, Trump, Putin, May and Jinping, along with the ten non-permanent members serving two year terms.

    In other words the refugee crisis would get immeasurably worse as France joins in the "let other people deal with it" approach, the EU would be fatally destabilised (Brexit isn't much of a problem, but Frexit would be a disaster) NATO would very likely dissolve and Putin would have a great big nothing between him and his expansionist agend.

    Just imagine the damage he could do within months if that all falls into place.

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    honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    The French and German elections this year are so important for the future direction of the EU. Both countries are basically the core of the european integration.

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    [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    honovere wrote: »
    The French and German elections this year are so important for the future direction of the EU. Both countries are basically the core of the european integration.

    And we need both. EU can't be France and Friends nor Germany and Friends, and certainly not Neither and Friends. And we all need the EU.

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
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    Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    Speaking of France there have been two terrorist incidents there today, a letter bomb at the IMF office in Paris and a shooting at a school (one suspect apprehended, another on the run.)

    Thankfully there are no fatalities.

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    honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    Speaking of France there have been two terrorist incidents there today, a letter bomb at the IMF office in Paris and a shooting at a school (one suspect apprehended, another on the run.)

    Thankfully there are no fatalities.

    German Ministry of Finance also recieved a package with explosives. Got caught before anything happened, though.

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    Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    The French police have revised their terrorism alert and say the school shooting wasn't a terrorist incident. They've arrested a "heavily armed" 17 year old.

    So it seems the letter bombs are the only terrorist incidents. It's very good news that nobody has been killed. Hopefully the person who opened the one in Paris isn't too badly hurt.

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    Dizzy DDizzy D NetherlandsRegistered User regular
    Einzel wrote: »
    It's not entirely Trump related (Dutch elections) but this seemed like the best thread to post in. It's a small step but still a good one.
    Far-right populist Geert Wilders was soundly beaten, with PM Rutte claiming victory

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/16/europe/netherlands-dutch-results/

    Don't be too happy, PVV has still grown (going from 15 to 20 seats) and has become the 2nd largest party at the moment and VVD (Rutte's party) went from 41 to 33 seats (so their win is relative). The big loser is the PvdA (Labour Party), the former 2nd largest party, who went from 38 to 9 seats. Those voters probably went to D66 (Democrats), Groen Links (Green Party) and PvdD (Party for Animal Rights).

    The way we have like 10 large parties (more than 5 seats) and about 2 dozen small parties (0-5 seats) means that we're always ruled by coallitions (upside: no chance for any major party to fully steer the country, downside: real changes are very, very slow). Coalation will probably be VVD (Liberals), CDA (Christian Democrats) and D66 (Democrats), but they still need a fourth party to get majority.

    (Note: translations of party names to english parties don't really cover the real party policies behind them, just a rough idea where they stand.)

    Steam/Origin: davydizzy
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    EinzelEinzel Registered User regular
    I wasn't saying it was a thrilling result, but it's at least a plug in the leaky hull, no matter how small.

    As mentioned above, the scarier elections are still coming.

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    OghulkOghulk Tinychat Janitor TinychatRegistered User regular
    Something I find interesting is that the intelligence community is not going to see any budget cuts. I would think that if the new administration was actually going to war with that group they'd put severe budget cuts on the table ala the state department. But they aren't, in fact they're allowing the IC to operate basically as normal.

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    Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Almost as if they're talking out of both sides of their mouth.

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    Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    Oghulk wrote: »
    Something I find interesting is that the intelligence community is not going to see any budget cuts. I would think that if the new administration was actually going to war with that group they'd put severe budget cuts on the table ala the state department. But they aren't, in fact they're allowing the IC to operate basically as normal.

    Budget cuts to the IC would just be force feeding talking points about how the Trump admin isnt serious about stopping terror attacks & is trying to stop investigations into their own foreign ties.

    steam_sig.png
    MWO: Adamski
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    OghulkOghulk Tinychat Janitor TinychatRegistered User regular
    Oghulk wrote: »
    Something I find interesting is that the intelligence community is not going to see any budget cuts. I would think that if the new administration was actually going to war with that group they'd put severe budget cuts on the table ala the state department. But they aren't, in fact they're allowing the IC to operate basically as normal.

    Budget cuts to the IC would just be force feeding talking points about how the Trump admin isnt serious about stopping terror attacks & is trying to stop investigations into their own foreign ties.

    Very true, but honestly I think part of the problem is a lot of the IC falls under DoD budgets. It's harder to go "Budget increase to defense! Except IC!"

    Of course they're also decreasing the budget to the Energy Department which...is a fairly unknown but super important IC member.

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    Mr KhanMr Khan Not Everyone WAHHHRegistered User regular
    It's now looking like Le Pen won't even place first in the first-round poll, and that her likely 2nd round opponent is the toughest one for her to beat.

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    chrisnlchrisnl Registered User regular
    Mr Khan wrote: »
    It's now looking like Le Pen won't even place first in the first-round poll, and that her likely 2nd round opponent is the toughest one for her to beat.

    Wait, how exactly do French elections work? Is it like the NCAA tournament or something? Are we hoping for a 15-2 upset?

    steam_sig.png
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    chrisnl wrote: »
    Mr Khan wrote: »
    It's now looking like Le Pen won't even place first in the first-round poll, and that her likely 2nd round opponent is the toughest one for her to beat.

    Wait, how exactly do French elections work? Is it like the NCAA tournament or something? Are we hoping for a 15-2 upset?

    It's a two round process. There's an initial vote and then if no candidate gets a majority in the first round (never happens afaik) there is a follow-up run-off election between the top two candidates from the first round.

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    chrisnlchrisnl Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    chrisnl wrote: »
    Mr Khan wrote: »
    It's now looking like Le Pen won't even place first in the first-round poll, and that her likely 2nd round opponent is the toughest one for her to beat.

    Wait, how exactly do French elections work? Is it like the NCAA tournament or something? Are we hoping for a 15-2 upset?

    It's a two round process. There's an initial vote and then if no candidate gets a majority in the first round (never happens afaik) there is a follow-up run-off election between the top two candidates from the first round.

    Aw, that is significantly less interesting than I was hoping for.

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    chrisnl wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    chrisnl wrote: »
    Mr Khan wrote: »
    It's now looking like Le Pen won't even place first in the first-round poll, and that her likely 2nd round opponent is the toughest one for her to beat.

    Wait, how exactly do French elections work? Is it like the NCAA tournament or something? Are we hoping for a 15-2 upset?

    It's a two round process. There's an initial vote and then if no candidate gets a majority in the first round (never happens afaik) there is a follow-up run-off election between the top two candidates from the first round.

    Aw, that is significantly less interesting than I was hoping for.

    What if I lied and told you that there was a round before the voting where all the people who want to run for president have a brawl in an alley with rebar and steel pipes and only those able to walk away at the end get to appear on the ballot?

This discussion has been closed.