I just how they just got done assuring players that they were focusing on transparency and communication, followed closely by a large, undocumented change that impacts nearly every single player. Seems like a pretty solid step back for them in this regard
Pretty sure they specifically mentioned that gear wouldn't factor into to creature scaling when people asked the question when they announced it for Legion as well, since they felt that it'd feel shitty to get more gear but not feel anymore powerful.
Yeah, they've been consistently saying for a while now that they would love more communication with the community on changes. A huge, entirely undocumented (not to mention poorly implemented) change that they've already publicly said would not happen is not the way to do that.
Personally I just take off my healing trinket and can suddenly one-shot mobs because they have like 900k less health and all I lose is a bit of mastery.
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited March 2017
I can see their point of view around wanting to get an idea of people's reactions when people didn't know to go looking for it.
I just don't think it's the right way to go about it.
I also agree with their reasoning here
When someone trying to wind up a 2.5sec cast can't get a nuke off against a quest target before another player charges in and one-shots it, that feels broken.
It's definitely very hard to get in hits on mobs in crowded WQ areas these days, mobs explode.
I can see their point of view around wanting to get an idea of people's reactions when people didn't know to go looking for it.
I just don't think it's the right way to go about it.
The thing is though: from what I can tell, this change wasn't even in the PTR. It was literally snuck in at 0 hour. If you have a change you want to put in, you can gather that same feedback when the patch is still in testing. What's what a testing realm is for . For them to just not include it at all, roll it out with the live patch, then rebuke all criticism with 'well we're still testing it, it's not really working exactly as intended at the moment' is just stupid, because there was an environment specifically designed to test it that was open for months, that they opted not to use. It absolutely reeks of 'we know this will be unpopular, so we won't talk about it until it's too late.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited March 2017
If it was in the PTR, people would have known about it, defeating the purpose of trying to get that feedback without people knowing in advance.
I, for one, think they are right that there is a problem. My Havoc offspec literally twoshots any non-elite open world mob. I've had people running towards my quest mobs to tag them, and before I can actually stop myself to let them tag it, the mob is already dead because it only took two abilities and an autoattack to melt it.
EDIT: Also, for what it's worth, I noticed mobs taking longer to die, but I chalked it up to it being a new area. Tanaan mobs took more effort to kill than the rest of Draenor, this time two years ago. It certainly wasn't super noticeable. I refuse to believe that it's as big a deal as the internet is making it out to be.
If it was in the PTR, people would have known about it, defeating the purpose of trying to get that feedback without people knowing in advance.
What would be the difference if they just put it into the PTR unannounced?
PTR testers are not a representative sample of the larger population.
The PTR is great for testing things like spell mechanics, seeing how rotations come together when you add new talents, buff/nerf abilities, or redesign classes, and for bugfixing.
But it's awful for figuring out how playerbases will respond emotionally to design choices, because the PTR playerbase is overwhelmingly represented by the hardcore player.
If it was in the PTR, people would have known about it, defeating the purpose of trying to get that feedback without people knowing in advance.
That doesn't make any sense, though. The PTR was built for the purpose of collecting feedback. That, and stress testing, are why a test realm even exists. The argument 'we didn't include this in our environment designed to collect feedback, so we could collect feedback' is silly. That post explains why it was an undocumented change, shitty reasoning nothwithstanding; not that the change was held until patch day
If it was in the PTR, people would have known about it, defeating the purpose of trying to get that feedback without people knowing in advance.
What would be the difference if they just put it into the PTR unannounced?
PTR testers are not a representative sample of the larger population.
The PTR is great for testing things like spell mechanics, seeing how rotations come together when you add new talents, buff/nerf abilities, or redesign classes, and for bugfixing.
But it's awful for figuring out how playerbases will respond emotionally to design choices, because the PTR playerbase is overwhelmingly represented by the hardcore player.
This also makes no sense, as the higher ilevel players are still the only ones giving feedback on the change, since they're the ones who are most affected by it.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited March 2017
I'm a higher ilvl player and didn't even notice there was anything beyond the usual slightly higher HP for mobs in new areas that you always get. I was certainly interested to learn the reason, but it still doesn't bother me. If I can manage to survive the horrific ordeal of having to kill mobs in five GCDs instead of two GCDs, so can everyone else.
The entire point of this change is to make life more difficult for the higher ilvl people in order to smooth out the experience for those who are lower ilvl. Of COURSE a big chunk of higher ilvl people will hate it, because fuck the other people playing this game, I want to twoshot my world quest mobs in peace arghlebargle.
You don't need to roll it out on the PTR to get that feedback.
On a side note, I'm glad they at least remembered to set the town on the Shores as a sanctuary. Would be nice of the entire Shores was set as one too, but I think that one dev's head would explode.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
On a side note, I'm glad they at least remembered to set the town on the Shores as a sanctuary. Would be nice of the entire Shores was set as one too, but I think that one dev's head would explode.
I'd actually love if they just removed the logout timer. The open world isn't dangerous, and as long as people aren't logging out in combat, who cares?
In these days of SSDs, and automatic login from the Bnet launcher, it is actually quicker to close the game and reopen it if you want to switch characters outside a rested area.
I hope they see how we've organically responded to the change by expressing our dislike and reverting it. I mean l, they said they were interested in the feedback right?
So now we have to consult ilvl spreadsheets to figure out which pieces of gear we need to unequip to make our daily chores as painless as possible. Fun.
No, playing the game is fun. Taking the game to such a ridiculous degree is most certainly not fun and has never been promoted as such by Blizzard.
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
Personally I wouldn't mind if there was, like, a Dark World version of the world where everything is more difficult. The current world is completely challengeless, so the higher they crank the ilvl scaling the better.
Not everybody has a tank spec that can just round up mobs and kill them without issue as usual. So I can sympathise with people having issues, even though it doesn't affect me.
On other stuff, there's the artifact compendium issue again, if you have any investigation ongoing you have to wait for those to be done to get to the AK 25 -> AK 26 updates. Here's a Blizz post about it:
Game Master Yaraheep here. Thanks for hanging on while I take another look at this for you.
I totally get where you’re coming from on this! AK has been hugely important throughout Legion and that is still true in 7.2. So yeah, not being able to get to 25 right away can definitely be a bit of a setback.
I actually had the same thing happen on my Rogue, and I did a ton of digging to figure out what was going on and why this was happening. It runs out this is actually working as intended. Basically, this works the same way that the Catchup mechanic and the Compendiums did when they were introduced. It boosts you straight to 25 when working in accordance with any Research Notes that are currently processing or in your inventory.
So, Roteye wasn’t Boosted straight to 25 because she was already at 23 and had 2 pending (which would bring her up to 25). Once those are done, she can use them to get to 25 and start working her way up to 50!
As I mentioned before, though, this is working as intended. So, I’m afraid that we will not be able to complete those Notes any faster or provide any additional AK levels for you. I can definitely understand that this is frustrating and setback, though, and I know how important it is to stay as current as possible! If you want to see this system changed, the best way to do that is through the “Submit Suggestion” option from the in-game help menu. This will send your suggestion straight to the developers so they can consider it and work on adding it to the game. I would also recommend taking to the forums. If you can get a good discussion going about a change you’d like to see then they will take notice and get it added.
I know that this was not the resolution that you were hoping for, especially if your friend was able to boost right away, but I’m glad that I was at least able to take a look and help clear this up for you!
People are obviously crying BS, since at 23+ is pretty much waiting a week for being able to do the new content. GG Blizz.
The whole world scaling with item level thing was actually active on the PTR. Just nobody bothered to notice it as they were focused on testing new content, so probably thought "Ah well it's brand new stuff, of course it's gonna be harder!"
I'm not hearing nice things from Fury Warriors as a major example. So dependent on gear to feel powerful, whether it's hyperbole or not some even claim they gotta sit down and rest between some fights.
The whole world scaling with item level thing was actually active on the PTR. Just nobody bothered to notice it as they were focused on testing new content, so probably thought "Ah well it's brand new stuff, of course it's gonna be harder!"
I'm not hearing nice things from Fury Warriors as a major example. So dependent on gear to feel powerful, whether it's hyperbole or not some even claim they gotta sit down and rest between some fights.
I played my 901 Demon Hunter and 840 Rogue on the PTR and it definitely felt like there was no scaling; stuff on the Broken Shore was definitely more powerful than the rest of the zone, but I chalked that up to it being newer content, geared towards max level players, like Suramar stuff is slightly more powerful than stuff from the other 4 zones that scale to 110
And if they're going to go the 'gear scales in open world' route, at least have the decency to go all the way and let me run around and do world quests in nothing but a summer festival crown and 17 pound bass.
[*] The most obvious one, everybody having the new traits.
I'm confused. I logged in last night expecting to have refunded AP and new things to select. Neither of those happened. So I added one more trait (up to....44 I think?) after getting to AK26.
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Dyshow am I even using this gunRegistered Userregular
[*] The most obvious one, everybody having the new traits.
I'm confused. I logged in last night expecting to have refunded AP and new things to select. Neither of those happened. So I added one more trait (up to....44 I think?) after getting to AK26.
[*] The most obvious one, everybody having the new traits.
I'm confused. I logged in last night expecting to have refunded AP and new things to select. Neither of those happened. So I added one more trait (up to....44 I think?) after getting to AK26.
If you go back to Khadgar once you turn in the AK quest he gives you the follow-up that leads to more traits/refunded AP
I want a PvP talent that says "when you dispel a HOT from a enemy player, the target receives a debuff that reduces healing from that ability by 100% for 8s."
Because screw monks and druids.
PMAvers on
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Mark of Honor Updates
Many PvP sets are now available as Ensembles which cost 12 Mark of Honor each. We've put together a guide to where each PvP transmog set can be purchased.
In addition, the Season 1 and Season 2 Legion sets will be available for Marks of Honor from Lieutenant Surtees and Apothecary Lee in Legion Dalaran.
[*] The most obvious one, everybody having the new traits.
I'm confused. I logged in last night expecting to have refunded AP and new things to select. Neither of those happened. So I added one more trait (up to....44 I think?) after getting to AK26.
Do some quests!
I've been doing quests the entire expansion. It should have stopped at "Yay! You can do more AK research!" but, alas, that is never the case with Blizzard.
My 2nd Ret legendary finally dropped from the Wardens emissary chest this morning (4th legendary on this char).
Justice Gaze.
It doesn't even rank on Icyveins as worth having along with a bunch of others. Fantastic.
I'll equip it because it's got great stats, but my loot specialization is now back to Holy so I can try to get something better than Hand of Tyr/Maraad.
[*] The most obvious one, everybody having the new traits.
I'm confused. I logged in last night expecting to have refunded AP and new things to select. Neither of those happened. So I added one more trait (up to....44 I think?) after getting to AK26.
Do some quests!
I've been doing quests the entire expansion. It should have stopped at "Yay! You can do more AK research!" but, alas, that is never the case with Blizzard.
World Quests: At Least They're Not Dailies... question mark?
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Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
I can live with it being a little meatier to be perfectly honest, that goes with their intent of letting things live long enough that people can actually tag them. Just the additional damage suddenly made your extra stamina not so useful.
I can live with it being a little meatier to be perfectly honest, that goes with their intent of letting things live long enough that people can actually tag them. Just the additional damage suddenly made your extra stamina not so useful.
Yeah this is fine with me. Though regarding tagging, if they REALLY wanted to fix it they'd remove the tagging system entirely like they pretended they were doing but "Haha, not really, the other faction shares this quest so good luck with that!"
I just how they just got done assuring players that they were focusing on transparency and communication, followed closely by a large, undocumented change that impacts nearly every single player. Seems like a pretty solid step back for them in this regard
Pretty sure they specifically mentioned that gear wouldn't factor into to creature scaling when people asked the question when they announced it for Legion as well, since they felt that it'd feel shitty to get more gear but not feel anymore powerful.
Doesn't help that Ion sounds incredibly condescending sometimes.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
However, it does turn out that the change WAS on the PTR
It should also be noted that this change was on the Patch 7.2 PTR (and has been since January). We didn’t communicate anything about it initially because we wanted to get testers’ raw and honest feedback about it when they encountered it themselves, rather than attempting to pre-empt or otherwise influence their opinions ahead of time. When that feedback never came, we assumed that meant it was an acceptable change – i.e., those who hadn’t noticed it weren’t bothered by it, and those who had noticed it thought it was fine.
As I'd mentioned, they didn't notice it cause they weren't testing for it. As Dhalphir has said most people on the PTR are on the hardcore side of things, so are already geared to the teeth and didn't bat an eye at any scaling.
regardless of your thoughts about scaling (I don't particularly mind, myself) they need a more elegant method than the one they have currently (where I can just unequip my rings and drop every mob's health by 50%)
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
As I'd mentioned, they didn't notice it cause they weren't testing for it. As Dhalphir has said most people on the PTR are on the hardcore side of things, so are already geared to the teeth and didn't bat an eye at any scaling.
Most of the people who run PTR are only doing it for the raiding content anyway and wouldn't have even interacted with non-elite mobs, by and large.
Posts
Yeah, they've been consistently saying for a while now that they would love more communication with the community on changes. A huge, entirely undocumented (not to mention poorly implemented) change that they've already publicly said would not happen is not the way to do that.
Personally I just take off my healing trinket and can suddenly one-shot mobs because they have like 900k less health and all I lose is a bit of mastery.
SE++ have a horde guild on Cho'gall, but we don't have one here.
I just don't think it's the right way to go about it.
I also agree with their reasoning here
It's definitely very hard to get in hits on mobs in crowded WQ areas these days, mobs explode.
The thing is though: from what I can tell, this change wasn't even in the PTR. It was literally snuck in at 0 hour. If you have a change you want to put in, you can gather that same feedback when the patch is still in testing. What's what a testing realm is for . For them to just not include it at all, roll it out with the live patch, then rebuke all criticism with 'well we're still testing it, it's not really working exactly as intended at the moment' is just stupid, because there was an environment specifically designed to test it that was open for months, that they opted not to use. It absolutely reeks of 'we know this will be unpopular, so we won't talk about it until it's too late.
I, for one, think they are right that there is a problem. My Havoc offspec literally twoshots any non-elite open world mob. I've had people running towards my quest mobs to tag them, and before I can actually stop myself to let them tag it, the mob is already dead because it only took two abilities and an autoattack to melt it.
EDIT: Also, for what it's worth, I noticed mobs taking longer to die, but I chalked it up to it being a new area. Tanaan mobs took more effort to kill than the rest of Draenor, this time two years ago. It certainly wasn't super noticeable. I refuse to believe that it's as big a deal as the internet is making it out to be.
What would be the difference if they just put it into the PTR unannounced?
PTR testers are not a representative sample of the larger population.
The PTR is great for testing things like spell mechanics, seeing how rotations come together when you add new talents, buff/nerf abilities, or redesign classes, and for bugfixing.
But it's awful for figuring out how playerbases will respond emotionally to design choices, because the PTR playerbase is overwhelmingly represented by the hardcore player.
That doesn't make any sense, though. The PTR was built for the purpose of collecting feedback. That, and stress testing, are why a test realm even exists. The argument 'we didn't include this in our environment designed to collect feedback, so we could collect feedback' is silly. That post explains why it was an undocumented change, shitty reasoning nothwithstanding; not that the change was held until patch day
This also makes no sense, as the higher ilevel players are still the only ones giving feedback on the change, since they're the ones who are most affected by it.
The entire point of this change is to make life more difficult for the higher ilvl people in order to smooth out the experience for those who are lower ilvl. Of COURSE a big chunk of higher ilvl people will hate it, because fuck the other people playing this game, I want to twoshot my world quest mobs in peace arghlebargle.
You don't need to roll it out on the PTR to get that feedback.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
I'd actually love if they just removed the logout timer. The open world isn't dangerous, and as long as people aren't logging out in combat, who cares?
In these days of SSDs, and automatic login from the Bnet launcher, it is actually quicker to close the game and reopen it if you want to switch characters outside a rested area.
No, playing the game is fun. Taking the game to such a ridiculous degree is most certainly not fun and has never been promoted as such by Blizzard.
On other stuff, there's the artifact compendium issue again, if you have any investigation ongoing you have to wait for those to be done to get to the AK 25 -> AK 26 updates. Here's a Blizz post about it: People are obviously crying BS, since at 23+ is pretty much waiting a week for being able to do the new content. GG Blizz.
I'm not hearing nice things from Fury Warriors as a major example. So dependent on gear to feel powerful, whether it's hyperbole or not some even claim they gotta sit down and rest between some fights.
I played my 901 Demon Hunter and 840 Rogue on the PTR and it definitely felt like there was no scaling; stuff on the Broken Shore was definitely more powerful than the rest of the zone, but I chalked that up to it being newer content, geared towards max level players, like Suramar stuff is slightly more powerful than stuff from the other 4 zones that scale to 110
Unfortunately, rewards aren't scaling appropriately.
I'm confused. I logged in last night expecting to have refunded AP and new things to select. Neither of those happened. So I added one more trait (up to....44 I think?) after getting to AK26.
Do some quests!
If you go back to Khadgar once you turn in the AK quest he gives you the follow-up that leads to more traits/refunded AP
Because screw monks and druids.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
So:
HYPE.
You buy the PvP tokens by dusting other PvP gear in the obliterum forge.
It's nice to see it's grayed out if you cannot afford it or have the currency it needs to buy it
From WoWHead:
I've been doing quests the entire expansion. It should have stopped at "Yay! You can do more AK research!" but, alas, that is never the case with Blizzard.
Justice Gaze.
It doesn't even rank on Icyveins as worth having along with a bunch of others. Fantastic.
I'll equip it because it's got great stats, but my loot specialization is now back to Holy so I can try to get something better than Hand of Tyr/Maraad.
Steam: TheArcadeBear
World Quests: At Least They're Not Dailies... question mark?
TLDR they are nerfing the amount of scaling and also removing damage scaling entirely (so stuff is meatier but doesn't hit harder)
Yeah this is fine with me. Though regarding tagging, if they REALLY wanted to fix it they'd remove the tagging system entirely like they pretended they were doing but "Haha, not really, the other faction shares this quest so good luck with that!"
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Most of the people who run PTR are only doing it for the raiding content anyway and wouldn't have even interacted with non-elite mobs, by and large.