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[WH40k] In the grim darkness of the not-webcomic thread there is only war
Fiendishrabbit
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Since the Webcomic thread almost turned into a 40k thread I'm starting a discussion about 40k Lore instead where we can discuss who is the biggest asshole in 40k and other fun facts without incurring Exterminatus by Mod-torpedoes.
And now...onwards towards nerdery! Because I want to hit it with my sword!
Lorgar hated being a military commander. He was an intellectual, a poet and an architect at heart that wanted to build worlds, not destroy them.
He tried to build worlds worthy of the empire, and his only repayment for that was the scorn of his brothers (especially Rogal Dorn and Leman Russ) and then the Emperor decided to take the Ultramarines, bomb the capital of the Word bearers into dust and then deliver a psychicly reinforced "you suck" speech.
That kind of shit would open up anyone to influence from the Chaos gods.
And now...onwards towards nerdery! Because I want to hit it with my sword!
Lord_Asmodeus wrote: »Things aren't any less xenophobic or militaristic with those guys gone, if anything it's way worse. And you're counting Lorgar as one of the guys who wasn't a humongous asshole? Lorgar? The religious fanatic who was more xenophobic than pretty much all the other Primarchs and was exactly as militarist as them and upon being told that he should stop building churches dedicated to the worship of the Emperor and go do his job allowed himself to be convinced "Yes, I should start worshiping literal gods of evil and work to bring down everything I previously believed in"Fiendishrabbit wrote: »If you want a "shinier" version of 40k, there's the Horus Heresy series, set in the same universe, but ten thousand years beforehand, when the Imperium stood for Enlightenment, Reason, Civilization, when people actually weren't screaming superstitious madpersons, and so on. The Horus Heresy is the tales of how all that started to go to shit. I especially recommend Horus Rising, the first book of the series, and A Thousand Sons, which both depict the Primarchs (and the Imperium in general) before their fall.
The horus heresy series is what made me not regret the fall of the empire.
The Emperor was a xenophobic, militaristic asshole, and so were all his loyal sons. The only guys who aren't humongous assholes are Magnus and Lorgar.
Not Guilliman or Vulkan or hell even Angron who had some pretty good reasons for resenting the Emperor?
Lorgar hated being a military commander. He was an intellectual, a poet and an architect at heart that wanted to build worlds, not destroy them.
He tried to build worlds worthy of the empire, and his only repayment for that was the scorn of his brothers (especially Rogal Dorn and Leman Russ) and then the Emperor decided to take the Ultramarines, bomb the capital of the Word bearers into dust and then deliver a psychicly reinforced "you suck" speech.
That kind of shit would open up anyone to influence from the Chaos gods.
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
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Also they need to make a second Space Marine game.
I want to shoot and chain sword orks in glorious 4k.
. . . good?
In a picture it was becoming
I am kind of surprised there was nothing between the last book I read of the series and this
Warmaster was supposed to come out over five years ago. It has been a long wait.
Lorgar was a religious zealot. As far as I can recall on the whole he didn't seem to hate being a military commander, he just preferred building temples to the Emperor that the Emperor explicitly and repeatedly told him he didn't want him doing. I don't think the Emperor immediately forbad all religious activity on Lorgar's homeworld or from Lorgar himself which is a hell of a lot more than he gave most religious people in his Imperium, but Lorgar was never happy with that. Yes the Emperor's eventual response was overbearing and dickish, the Emperor was an overbearing dick, but Lorgar kept pushing the guy he supposedly worshiped on the one thing he said he didn't want, and he was all too happy to switch allegiances after he pushed the Emperor too far, instead of trying to reflect on why the Emperor was so pissed at him in the first place, he did the very thing that was the reason the Emperor wanted to stifle religious practice in the first place, he shifted all of his zeal and religious emotions to Chaos.
And even when he was just the "building churches" guy Lorgar was hardly a saint, he was the guy who wrote the religious documents about psykers being evil (instead of just like, necessary but needing to have a careful eye kept on them like the Emperor did for obvious reasons) about mutants being scum (he didn't even like abhumans if I recall, not even just less stable forms) and was violently anti-alien. He was one of the Primarchs who was super into the "humanity is the superior destined species, therefore we must kill or displace all other species" camp
I think that Perturabo was more interested in building monuments and buildings and toys, but was instead thrust into the grind of constant siege warfare breaking down other peoples buildings and fortresses.
Lorgar was the one more interested in building a church to The Emperor, who he saw as a god and decided that other people should see him as a god too. Despite the Emperor repeatedly telling him A) he's not a god, and
I could be wrong here. Been a while since I dove into Chaos fluff.
Nope. Perturabo was a master of combat, siege warfare in particular. He resented having his forces stretched beyond breaking point in endless sieges and with as few as a single squad of Iron warriors designated to hold entire worlds. He also resented Rogal Dorn going "Look at these perfect defences I made on Terra (Using my entire legion instead of having it split across a hundred worlds). Have you ever done something this perfect Perturabo? I don't think so, because you're not as great as I am."
Hey. The only Primarchs that weren't super into crushing aliens were Horus and Magnus.
As for Lorgar, he pretty much just interpreted what the emperor said. Except he viewed the Emperor as divine and thus the Emperors word was divine law. Except for that part about not being divine, because obviously the emperor was divine. Immortal, nearly all powerful, obsessed with claiming the Galaxy for mankind.
Anyway. The entire Horus Heresy is due to two things.
1. The primarchs being fallible.
2. The Emperor being a huge egocentered dick. If he had explained even a little bit about his big plan to his sons then maybe they wouldn't have been tricked into disrupting it. This hit Magnus especially hard. Not even once did the Emperor go "Hey. Magnus, look. Warp entities are the minions of the chaos gods, and it's kind of my mission to eliminate the chaos gods from the universe. Oh, and btw I'm going to go back to terra and build a giant webway so that we'll never have to travel through the warp ever again. I'm not abandoning you". Instead he went "Don't do it. Now go sit in the corner you naughty child! Btw. I'm not going to talk to you. Why? Great project. Super secret. Now shut up while I'm going to be an asshole about things."
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
Building cathedrals/temples that covered planets and then using the remains of the inhabitants of those planets as a primary decorative motif is post-Heresy.
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
All he had to do was explain to Magnus and the others about the perils of the warp. Instead of just pretending chaos doesn't exist.
There is a certain irony that to save the imperium, the emperor had to become the thing he vowed to destroy.
Also I generally agree that most of the Heresy ultimately happened because the Emperor was a paranoid dick who didn't get people, but some of the Primarchs were a little too quick to switch sides, Lorgar and Horus being at the top of the list, Fulgrim shortly behind, the rest at least had reason or were pushed into it a large Magnus.
Also Vulkan and Guilliman were the ones woth the most nuance vis a vis aliens IIRC, Horus was hugely humanocentric and genocided people left and right, others like Magnus didn't hate aliens but weren't super conflicted about killing them a lot of the time.
Like my big impression is that the current state of the Imperium is a terrible ironty because most of it's worst habits and institutions were most pushed by the Primarchs who went traitor, the Traitor Legions fight against and revile an Imperium that reflects their own vision of it in many ways.
I've been waiting on the Omnibus for the last chapter so I've not read anything past Only in Death which ends on...let's call it a rough note for all concerned.
They're probably not going to print one. Get the paperbacks of the rest and catch up.
But my shelf!
(boo but yes I've been thinking that for a while. Will see if Warmaster (which I think is the last one??) actually comes out first)
I love Primaris Space Marines and the current dumb stupid fun storyline happening right now.
Uriel, get in the Unofficial SE++ discord so we can play Eternal Crusade together! (the unofficial SE++ discord is here: https://discord.gg/q9AFgW6
We'll shoot at orks, chainsaw orks, even blow up ork vehicles! It'll be fun! We might even get REALLY wild and play as orks!
That game is much more fun when you play with friends, because that way,you can actually organize your strategy a lot more!
Also, anybody else wants to join, I have an extra copy of Eternal Crusade to give to you!
I am so far out of the loop nowadays. I haven't bought a Horus Heresy book in about a year. I haven't touched any of the 40k new-fangled stuff.
What the h*ck is a Primaris Marine?
Basically, they're marines 2.0, created from the geneseed tithe of the Astartes Chapters to the Mechanicum. The project has been overseen by Belisarius Cawl, but it was on the back burner for ten thousand years because grimdark.
But, not really a fan of the primaris space marines, they just feel tacked on (and, obviously, HERESY!), but maybe they'll turn out fine.
And wtf is going on with Space wolves? I hear some weird stuff but have not gone to check or read any new novels.
tiny black hole instead of a heart?
https://medium.com/@alascii
When I saw the model for Yncarne after trying to find out what you got in the gangs of commorragh I was back into 40k fairly quickly
The Ynnari is what I have always wanted to play since the dark elder came out
Da Lore since this fall
The Primais Marines are the pickled marine 2.0 built by Archmagos Cawl after the fall of Horus
Just in the 10k since the emperor went afk they have sat in a vault on Terra while he went about the galaxy looking for stuff to finish them with sideline requests
The Space wolves were attacked by Magnus and the now whole thousand suns
At the final blow the 13th great company and wulfen return to save the day but the inquisition has their hand on the Exterminatus button
Rabooty was 2nd best because he had the common sense to try and save what he could.
3 extra organs compared to a normal space marine.
Though they now stand a step above their standard Astartes brethren, all Primaris Space Marines were still created using the original gene-seed of their Primarchs, like all other members of the Adeptus Astartes. Some voices within the Imperium now worry how this new type of transhuman warrior will react to the many genetic quirks and flaws found in the gene-seed of some of the more unusual Chapters, particularly given the long history of fiascoes that have resulted from attempts to alter the Emperor's original work. In the pursuit of his attempt to improve upon the original Space Marine template, Archmagos Belisarius Cawl collected samples of the genomes of all twenty of the original Primarchs, including those deemed Lost or Traitors, though Roboute Guilliman made clear to his overeager servant that Primaris Astartes were to be created only from the lines of those of his brothers who led the nine Loyalist Space Marine Legions. It is known that in addition to the general advancements in their gene-seed, Primaris Space Marines possess three additional gene-seed implant organs compared to their standard brethren and that their gene-seed is far more genetically stable than that of their forerunners. Primaris Space Marine gene-seed has only a .001% chance of genetic deviancy from the original baseline with the passage of each generation, which makes it nearly immune to the severe genetic instability suffered by Chapters such as the Blood Angels and Space Wolves over the course of their existence.
Nearly every Space Marine created since the First Founding possesses nineteen specialised organs derived from this gene-seed. The Primaris Marines, however, are implanted with a further three additional organs. It was the Sangprimus Portum, a device containing potent genetic material harvested from the Primarchs, that allowed for this breakthrough. Entrusted to Cawl by Guilliman shortly after the Second Founding in the early 31st Millennium, this device resulted in a new breed of Adeptus Astartes that were deployed en masse in the Ultima Founding. Due to Cawl's interpretation of his orders and the millennia-spanning labour of his task -- during which Guilliman was injured and suspended in stasis -- the secrets of these new Primaris organs were not released until late in the 41st Millennium.
Primaris Organs
The Primaris Space Marines possess all of the nineteen gene-seed implant organs that have been gifted to their original Astartes brothers, as well as three more that only they possess, for a total of twenty-two. These new gifts of Belisarius Cawl's genius further enhance their transhuman status and ability to bring the Emperor's justice to a galaxy shrouded in darkness and despair. These additional implanted organs include:
Sinew Coils (The Steel Within) - The Primaris Space Marine's sinews are reinforced with durametallic coil-cables that can contract with incredible force, magnifying his strength as well as giving his body another layer of defence. A Primaris Space Marine can crush a man's skull in his hand, break Flak Armour to flinders, or even bite through a metal cable should the need arise.
Magnificat (The Amplifier) - A small, thumbnail-sized lobe that is inserted into the brain's cortex. The Magnificat secretes hormones that increase the body's growth functions whilst also intensifying the function of its other transhuman implants, especially those of the Biscopea and the Ossmodula. In truth, the Magnificat is but half of the true, dual-valve Immortis Gland (the so-called God-Maker) that the Emperor created for His Primarchs. However, Archmagos Cawl could only find materials and genetic blueprints to build the Dextrophic Lobe (the right half of the Immortis Gland), while plans for the Sintarius (the left half) that would complete the original super-organ had been wholly eradicated from Imperial records of the Primarch Project. Whether this was done by the Emperor's own hand or by some nefarious source, Cawl could not tell.
Belisarian Furnace (The Revitaliser) - This is a dormant organ that connects to both Astartes hearts. In times of extreme stress, or should the warrior's body undergo violent, damaging trauma, it expels great blurts of self-synthesized chemicals -- a hyper-cocktail that simulates the biological action of combat stimms while also aiding in the rapid regrowth of tissue, bone and muscle. The gland then falls dormant again, and takes some time to metabolically build itself up once more for the next usage.
I mean look at the map now
The worlds north of the scar are screwed
I really want to ramp up on painting
Custodes are leagues better than space marines, even the primaris ones.
All space marines (including Primaris) are still mass produced and start their augmentation in adolesence.
Custodes training starts in infancy and their augmentation is done at the microscopic level. Unless killed in combat, they're pretty much immortal
As has been mentioned, the Custodian Guard and the Space Marines are related in form, as perhaps might be expected of works of a same creator's hand, but they are very different in function and capacity. There are of course similarities between the two. Both are physically transformed well beyond "natural" human limits in terms of strength, endurance and fortitude, and fitted for inhuman environmental adaption and resilience, though in this the Adeptus Custodes are the markedly superior of the two in might, if not in adaptability. Both are subject to extensive psychological and cognitive conditioning, and are physically and mentally reworked to render most of their baser drives inert and their beings rechannelled towards aggression, goal acquisition and the fulfillment of duty, and as a further safeguard against distraction and as a biological control, both are of course incapable of procreation. In both cases all that is left are beings of singular purpose; in the case of each Astartes, what is created is a living engine of conquest that cares for little else, and in the Custodian Guard, each is created protector of unrelenting diligence and savage capability -- a watchman whose vigilance will never tire.
What also differs truly between the two, Custodian Guard and Space Marine, is not just their functional purpose, but the extent of their augmentation and the means by which it is accomplished. While the process through which the Adeptus Astartes are fabricated from a human being is well-enough documented in its outline, though its details are, of course, rightly held secret by those parties involved in the process on a Chapter by Chapter basis, genuine facts about the manner in which the Custodian Guard are created are very few, even within the hands of the Imperium's hierarchy. This is because -- as with all else about the Custodian Guard -- it is a matter for the Imperial Household alone, and that authority is one none may gainsay or question. What is known, however, marks them as different. Firstly, there is the matter of the age of the candidacy. For a child to become one of the Adeptus Custodes, it is known that they must begin the process in their late infancy and certainly before adolescence has taken hold on their physical structure. This stands in stark contrast to the Space Marines whose implantation is only possible after adolescence and best served before full physical maturity. This may link to a second of the few known facts about the creation of the Adeptus Custodes: that the gene-craft and alchemistry that transforms them is as absolute as it is subtle, and worked upon the smallest conceivable microscopic level of their genome and cellular structure. It is a process that effects such change on the mortal human form that, when complete, unless they suffer such massive bodily harm as to forcibly end their lives, they are effectively immortal, without perceptible ageing taking place after full maturity.
Not then for the Adeptus Custodes the pattern of surgical grafting and organ implantation that creates a Space Marine, no such crudities of augmentation at all mar the Custodian; what creates them is as invisible as it is potent, worked upon the core genetics and at a deep cellular level, and perhaps tailored to each specific inductee. There are those who insist that so invisible and yet so powerful this process is that it crosses over into a metaphysical realm of biomancy and psychic manipulation on a level unguessed at. Given that it is said that the Emperor Himself has overseen the creation of every single Custodian Guard who has ever lived, this may well be true. The peerless warriors who then result from this arcane process are a rare breed indeed, and not to be squandered recklessly on the battlefield. They were created with a single purpose in mind; to be the Emperor's own elite guard. They were a force created both to defend the Emperor from physical harm wherever the Great Crusade might take Him, to stand watch over His private domains and most guarded secrets, and to serve as the direct agents of His will -- as His personal emissaries -- be that will to protect, to venture, to claim, to keep secret, or to execute without remorse.
The Robot makes it look easy
Really I had NO idea how to paint a necron Vehicle before this video
Grown in a tube
Oh yeah I've watched hours of that dude painting. And then I go an try and its garbage.