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[NAFTA] Renegotiation

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Posts

  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    Yeah I don’t begrudge Canada acting like we’re assholes given we’re acting like assholes. I really wish it wasn’t the case but here we are.

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  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Also, as has been pointed out, Trump fucking with canada is trump fucking with america in a way that he can't just dismiss as lame stream media or such since whole industries are built around the availability of resources and established delivery systems (rail, highways, ports etc.)

    This isn't sustainable and assuming a halfway competent democrat runs in 2020 all of this abject stupidity will be ammunition for his opponent.

    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
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  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    Yeah I don’t begrudge Canada acting like we’re assholes given we’re acting like assholes. I really wish it wasn’t the case but here we are.

    Like, we're pretty easy going and generally it's in our interests to make mild concessions on trade in order to enjoy everything else the US has to offer (I.E. defense and support for human rights projects) but Trump has called all of that into question because he doesn't understand just how fucking good the US had it when he rolled into office.

    So fuck it. Theres litterally a hundred other countries we can be trading with ATM and no reason to accept a shitty deal.

    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Honetly the best kick in the junk would be to shut off access to canadian infrastructure; no shipping goods through canadian ports, no electrical power, no access to the alberta tar sands. We'll see how long his base continues to support him at that point.

    That would hurt Canada too. Why hurt Canada to spite the USA?

    Because We're Not Your Whipping Boy And It's Important To Understand There Are Consequences To Trying That Shit.

    And this is basically the point of Trump's "negotiations".

    Trade deal gives Canada $X dollars. Trade deal gives the US $Y dollars. Trump demands a percentage decrease in X in favor of a percentage increase in Y, or he cancels everything.

    So Canada's options are either "We accept your blackmail proposal, when can we expect the next demand?" or goes "Fuck it, if you're not gonna play fair, then we'll take the zero. Come back when you're willing to not be an asshole."

    Sometimes you need to go "Fuck it" in the short term, if you want to do what's best for your country in the long term when you're being bullied.

    The bigger issue for Canada is there's literally nothing we could do to make Trump happy since his issues with NAFTA and North American trade aren't actually based in facts or reality.

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  • TubularLuggageTubularLuggage Registered User regular
    I am glad that Trudeau has said at this point that we'd rather end up with no deal than a bad deal. If Trump wasn't a complete doddering moron he'd realize this strategy isn't going to work, and try to save face a bit before the midterms. Since he is a moron though, he's going to double and triple down on this, trying the same used car salesman tactics on Canada that we've already rejected, and we'll get some tweets that manage to somehow be even dumber than what we've seen already.

    The midterms can't come soon enough. America, please don't whiff this (I know I'm preaching to the choir around here).

  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    There is also the issue that when either side goes to replace that lost trade other countries will look at the US and look at Canada and one of them will look like the way more stable choice of trading partner.

    At this point I don't think anybody is real eager to talk trade with Trump if they don't have to.

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  • MillMill Registered User regular
    Yeah, Trump is being a massive dick.

    Honestly, the smart play for both Mexico and Canada would be to stop the talks and point out they are perfectly fine with what's in place right now. It's pretty fucking clear that whatever Trump might be willing to sign won't get passed three key groups that are required for passage: Canada, Mexico and the US Senate. It's a waste a time. The worst thing he could do is cause an economic jolt by trying to unilaterally nix NAFTA and it seems like he is using an excuse to do so anyways. So goad the fucker into doing it now, which would be the worst fucking time for both him and his shit party of craven, cowardly rat fuckers.

    I'm willing to bet that we probably get at least 6 judges on SCOTUS that tell Trump to fuck off us this. I suspect the entire liberal wing will come down to the idea that it's fucking implied that the Senate has to ratified treaty cancellation, the POTUS can't just do it on a whim. Then we probably get Alito and Roberts based on the following or some combination: They agree it's pretty much implied that Senate approval is required for killing treaties, it's terrible for treaties and neither would be keen on how that would fuck their party over or possible enable a Senate that feels they have the capital to kick them to the curb for backing Trump on this idiocy. Thomas is the wild card, he might just arrive at the right decision or be completely off. I don't trust Gorsuch and if he gets seated, Kavanaugh. Trump is consulting with people that don't have the US's best interest at hard for his picks and I wouldn't be surprised if both of those fuckers backed this idiocy for some idiotic reason. This is we only need five and it will piss Trump off when he is told no and make the GOP look incredibly weak.

    MorganV
  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    There is also the issue that when either side goes to replace that lost trade other countries will look at the US and look at Canada and one of them will look like the way more stable choice of trading partner.

    At this point I don't think anybody is real eager to talk trade with Trump if they don't have to.

    I can't imagine anyone being eager to try and strengthen ties with the US until at least 2020; trump has shown that he's perfectly willing to shred decades old agreements that have been the cornerstone of american power for basically no gain and attack companies that oppose his rampant idiocy, so what makes anyone think they can get any sort of deal out of him that will be to their benefit and that trump will honor?

    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    There is also the issue that when either side goes to replace that lost trade other countries will look at the US and look at Canada and one of them will look like the way more stable choice of trading partner.

    At this point I don't think anybody is real eager to talk trade with Trump if they don't have to.

    I can't imagine anyone being eager to try and strengthen ties with the US until at least 2020; trump has shown that he's perfectly willing to shred decades old agreements that have been the cornerstone of american power for basically no gain and attack companies that oppose his rampant idiocy, so what makes anyone think they can get any sort of deal out of him that will be to their benefit and that trump will honor?

    Sadly, that appears to be Trump's business model. It took Trump several decades to run through all the American businessmen who thought "He's an idiot, surely *I* can be the one to get the better end of the deal here".

    And for as much as I don't value the savvyness of business people, politicians are a more stupid breed. I'm not saying world leaders will be lining up around the block. But you know that at least a few will go crawling to Trump thinking they can get the better end of the deal.

    And let's be honest, it's not like there's no pot of gold at the end of that rainbow. The American marketplace is arguably the single biggest economy. A small piece of that can still be massive. The US's GDP is more than 15 times that of the Australian GDP for example. So, getting a small piece of that pie could be a huge boon. Trump won't let them (because he's a vain stupid greedy dipshit), but that doesn't mean some countries won't try. Despite all evidence showing it's a bad idea.

  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    There is also the issue that when either side goes to replace that lost trade other countries will look at the US and look at Canada and one of them will look like the way more stable choice of trading partner.

    At this point I don't think anybody is real eager to talk trade with Trump if they don't have to.

    I can't imagine anyone being eager to try and strengthen ties with the US until at least 2020; trump has shown that he's perfectly willing to shred decades old agreements that have been the cornerstone of american power for basically no gain and attack companies that oppose his rampant idiocy, so what makes anyone think they can get any sort of deal out of him that will be to their benefit and that trump will honor?

    Trump has been blacklisted by US commercial banks for a reason.

    YoutubeMrVyngaardGaddezFencingsaxMillIncenjucarSkeithGiggles_FunsworthMatev
  • mrondeaumrondeau Montréal, CanadaRegistered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    There is also the issue that when either side goes to replace that lost trade other countries will look at the US and look at Canada and one of them will look like the way more stable choice of trading partner.

    At this point I don't think anybody is real eager to talk trade with Trump if they don't have to.

    I can't imagine anyone being eager to try and strengthen ties with the US until at least 2020; trump has shown that he's perfectly willing to shred decades old agreements that have been the cornerstone of american power for basically no gain and attack companies that oppose his rampant idiocy, so what makes anyone think they can get any sort of deal out of him that will be to their benefit and that trump will honor?
    Even after 2020, strengthening ties with the US is stupid and only makes you more vulnerable. Trump is the symptom, not the illness.

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  • 38thDoe38thDoe lets never be stupid again wait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered User regular
    I appreciate that we are terrible right now but almost every democracy in the world is fighting off the illness too. I think people would rather have good relationships while they can then punish both countries for past leaders when they are out of power. At least I hope so.



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  • WotanAnubisWotanAnubis Registered User regular
    38thDoe wrote: »
    I appreciate that we are terrible right now but almost every democracy in the world is fighting off the illness too. I think people would rather have good relationships while they can then punish both countries for past leaders when they are out of power. At least I hope so.

    It'd be nice to think so. But anyone dealing with the US will be wondering if the treaty they sign will survive the next presidential election. Can the rest of the world really afford to just wholeheartedly trust the US again when Trump's gone? Because the Republicans won't be gone.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    38thDoe wrote: »
    I appreciate that we are terrible right now but almost every democracy in the world is fighting off the illness too. I think people would rather have good relationships while they can then punish both countries for past leaders when they are out of power. At least I hope so.

    It's not about punishing anyone. It's about every country working "Will the next Republican president be another populist toddler who will shit all over every deal we make with the US?" into their calculations.

    Relationships are built on trust and Trump is a big sign that the US can't be trusted as much as we all thought.

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  • 38thDoe38thDoe lets never be stupid again wait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered User regular
    Can you not wonder the same thing about Germany, France, Italy, etc.?



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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    38thDoe wrote: »
    Can you not wonder the same thing about Germany, France, Italy, etc.?

    Have they elected a Trump yet? They haven't, so no.

    I mean, Italy's got some morons in charge right now but they seem more focused on internal politics then fucking with the international order. Which is true of a lot of the countries in europe having issues.

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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    38thDoe wrote: »
    Can you not wonder the same thing about Germany, France, Italy, etc.?

    It took a long time for Germany to develop a reputation for stability. But they have, and regardless of the party in power, they've maintained a fairly even keel with regards their diplomatic positions and obligations. That Trump seems determined to derail, undermine, or just completely cancel almost every diplomatic position at least the past 5 Presidents have kept to, is the issue here.

    And sure, the US can recover their credibility on the world stage. But it'll need some time, and an admonishment of the Trump Presidency for that to happen. If a Democrat wins in 2020, but it's only by a small margin, and Republicans continue to push the edge of the Trump-esque policies and propaganda, then world leaders will be holding their breath every time there's an election.

    Take France. Yes, Macron's opponent at the last election was arguably a Trumpist, politically. But the French electorate rebuked that HARD. Barely a third of the country voted for her, and it'd take a monumental shift in politics for her or her party to seriously challenge for the Presidency.

    I mean, Trump loves talking about his electoral win. Macron's map makes Trump's map look pathetic.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_presidential_election,_2017#/media/File:Élection_présidentielle_de_2017_par_département_T2.svg

    Politics is about perception. And the way American elections are handled, even if Democrats win, until it's shown that Trumpism is absolutely rebuked, there'll be a fear it'll go that way again.

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  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    mrondeau wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    There is also the issue that when either side goes to replace that lost trade other countries will look at the US and look at Canada and one of them will look like the way more stable choice of trading partner.

    At this point I don't think anybody is real eager to talk trade with Trump if they don't have to.

    I can't imagine anyone being eager to try and strengthen ties with the US until at least 2020; trump has shown that he's perfectly willing to shred decades old agreements that have been the cornerstone of american power for basically no gain and attack companies that oppose his rampant idiocy, so what makes anyone think they can get any sort of deal out of him that will be to their benefit and that trump will honor?
    Even after 2020, strengthening ties with the US is stupid and only makes you more vulnerable. Trump is the symptom, not the illness.

    I'd like to think that most countries would percieve this as a dangerous edge case, but after bush and trump I honestly couldn't blame them for wanting to wean themselves off of america's brand of unstable economics.

    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
    Giggles_Funsworth
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    38thDoe wrote: »
    Can you not wonder the same thing about Germany, France, Italy, etc.?

    The UK is likely going to spend awhile in the wilderness because of Brexit, yes.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    38thDoe wrote: »
    Can you not wonder the same thing about Germany, France, Italy, etc.?

    The UK is likely going to spend awhile in the wilderness because of Brexit, yes.

    That's more just because of Brexit being a huge loss of economic and political clout for them.

  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    38thDoe wrote: »
    Can you not wonder the same thing about Germany, France, Italy, etc.?

    The UK is likely going to spend awhile in the wilderness because of Brexit, yes.

    That's more just because of Brexit being a huge loss of economic and political clout for them.

    It's also the diplomatic equivalent of shitting on the floor of the office; britain was doing more or less fine as part of the EU but they greenlit an indescribably racist policy that has served only to isolate them from their most immediate and important allies (mainland europe) and only in the past several months have captain ukip and the brexiteers realized that they're completely fucked economically when brexit fires.

    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    38thDoe wrote: »
    Can you not wonder the same thing about Germany, France, Italy, etc.?

    The UK is likely going to spend awhile in the wilderness because of Brexit, yes.

    That's more just because of Brexit being a huge loss of economic and political clout for them.

    Us cancelling TPP and TTIP while apparently trying to kick Canada out of NAFTA is for us as well. And it will have consequences that will last most of our lifetimes. Even if the various guardrails essentially protect NAFTA anyway.

    FencingsaxGiggles_Funsworth
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited September 2018
    moniker wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    38thDoe wrote: »
    Can you not wonder the same thing about Germany, France, Italy, etc.?

    The UK is likely going to spend awhile in the wilderness because of Brexit, yes.

    That's more just because of Brexit being a huge loss of economic and political clout for them.

    Us cancelling TPP and TTIP while apparently trying to kick Canada out of NAFTA is for us as well. And it will have consequences that will last most of our lifetimes. Even if the various guardrails essentially protect NAFTA anyway.

    Yes, but the main issue as it relates to future deals is it represents a sign of US instability. You can't trust that another Trump won't come along. Brexit isn't the UK being unstable or unreliable, it's just them shooting themselves in the foot. They are as reliable as ever, they just matter less.

    shryke on
  • KrieghundKrieghund Registered User regular
    So, apparently we have a deal, does anybody know the specifics?

  • quovadis13quovadis13 Registered User regular
    It seems like NAFTA 1.1 with a new and stupid name.

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  • Space PickleSpace Pickle Registered User regular
    Krieghund wrote: »
    So, apparently we have a deal, does anybody know the specifics?

    Everything I'm reading in the Canadian papers is that it's basically the same as NAFTA with a few changes so that Trump can call it his own deal.

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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Krieghund wrote: »
    So, apparently we have a deal, does anybody know the specifics?

    Everything I'm reading in the Canadian papers is that it's basically the same as NAFTA with a few changes so that Trump can call it his own deal.

    It looks like we (US) basically got some of the things already agreed to in the TPP but without the added benefit of Pacific Rim nations in it.

    And 0.12% more milk byproduct sales.

    Elldren
  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    quovadis13 wrote: »
    It seems like NAFTA 1.1 with a new and stupid name.

    I thought Josh Barro (journalist) had the best response to how to pronounce USMCA when spoken out loud. "NAFTA".

    This is absolutely Trump doing his petulant tantrum over something he doesn't understand, completely wrecking everything in the short term, causing ongoing damage to international relations, getting back to the status quo, and calling it a win.

    Because that last clause is the only thing he gives a fuck about.

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  • hawkboxhawkbox Registered User regular
    Canada gets screwed in a few places but he didn't declare war on us so I guess it's a win/win?

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  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Krieghund wrote: »
    So, apparently we have a deal, does anybody know the specifics?

    Everything I'm reading in the Canadian papers is that it's basically the same as NAFTA with a few changes so that Trump can call it his own deal.

    It looks like we (US) basically got some of the things already agreed to in the TPP but without the added benefit of Pacific Rim nations in it.

    And 0.12% more milk byproduct sales.

    Yeah, there were some changes that opened the Canadian dairy markets up slightly, but Canada recently made a deal with the EU to sell more of their dairy there anyway.

    Other than that I think there were some changes to what % of cars need to be manufactured in the US, but other than that I don’t think I saw any other big changes.

  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    I'm very pleased this seems to have been mostly a nothingburger news wise, since it's supposed to be Trumps greatest victory and campaign promise.

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  • kaidkaid Registered User regular
    Marathon wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Krieghund wrote: »
    So, apparently we have a deal, does anybody know the specifics?

    Everything I'm reading in the Canadian papers is that it's basically the same as NAFTA with a few changes so that Trump can call it his own deal.

    It looks like we (US) basically got some of the things already agreed to in the TPP but without the added benefit of Pacific Rim nations in it.

    And 0.12% more milk byproduct sales.

    Yeah, there were some changes that opened the Canadian dairy markets up slightly, but Canada recently made a deal with the EU to sell more of their dairy there anyway.

    Other than that I think there were some changes to what % of cars need to be manufactured in the US, but other than that I don’t think I saw any other big changes.

    The dairy stuff seems about what we had already negotiated for in the TPP so it did not seem to be forcing canada anywhere they were not already okay going in the first place.

    Giggles_Funsworth
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    hawkbox wrote: »
    Canada gets screwed in a few places but he didn't declare war on us so I guess it's a win/win?

    You also got the removal of one of the enforcement Articles that we were using effectively, while keeping the enforcement Articles that you used effectively. Not a bad trade-off for some more brightly colored cheese product.

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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Marathon wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Krieghund wrote: »
    So, apparently we have a deal, does anybody know the specifics?

    Everything I'm reading in the Canadian papers is that it's basically the same as NAFTA with a few changes so that Trump can call it his own deal.

    It looks like we (US) basically got some of the things already agreed to in the TPP but without the added benefit of Pacific Rim nations in it.

    And 0.12% more milk byproduct sales.

    Yeah, there were some changes that opened the Canadian dairy markets up slightly, but Canada recently made a deal with the EU to sell more of their dairy there anyway.

    Other than that I think there were some changes to what % of cars need to be manufactured in the US, but other than that I don’t think I saw any other big changes.

    I think the car thing is an increase in percentage made in North America, not just America. So it's more protectionist outside of the Continental rather than within. Also, a possible increase in wages for Mexican carworkers, but probably something that can be accounting gamed somehow since it uses averages? Suddenly every member of the C-Suite has their official office in a separate factory and the mean wage there doubled!

    ShadowhopeElldren
  • hawkboxhawkbox Registered User regular
    The bigger concerns are the Pharma related changes and IP changes. I still haven't seen a comprehensive explanation of what all is changed.

    Sleep
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Doodmann wrote: »
    I'm very pleased this seems to have been mostly a nothingburger news wise, since it's supposed to be Trumps greatest victory and campaign promise.

    Wallt are you twallking about

  • AegisAegis Not Quite TorontoRegistered User regular
    I had posted this in the CanPol thread, but it still remains my one confusion about the deal:
    Aegis wrote: »
    Not "other markets". Specifically "non-market economies", which appears to be defined as: whenever a party to NAFTA 2.0 decides that a country is a non-market economy and that no Party to NAFTA 2.0 has a FTA with said country. It's basically being read as: China.

    But then, they don't get kicked out; rather, the parties replace (if they can't first agree to modifying NAFTA 2.0 to alleviate concerns brought up by said Party engaging in a FTA with a non-market economy) NAFTA 2.0 with a bilateral agreement between themselves that comprise NAFTA 2.0 minus any amendments agreed to in negotiating the bilateral agreement. But it doesn't specify any kind of deadline date for that bilateral agreement, nor does it state what happens if no bilateral agreement can be reached (ie- would it default to a carbon-copy NAFTA 2.0?).

    It's a very strange Article.
    hawkbox wrote: »
    The bigger concerns are the Pharma related changes and IP changes. I still haven't seen a comprehensive explanation of what all is changed.

    Michael Geist had a rundown of these (since it's his subject area). I'm not entirely convinced about the significance of 20 more years to copyright, considering the baseline is already ridiculous, and on top of the fact that the alternatives that the US initially wanted in TPP were far, far more extensive and worse and previously rejected, but you can read his full breakdown here.

    Basic breakdown seems to be:

    * That the extra 2 years for pharma is actually significant in terms of healthcare costs.
    * +20 years for copyright adds costs to education, but we already had agreed to extend our copyright length at some point and it likely was never going to stop a trade deal.
    * We get to keep notice-and-notice, but Mexico can't start one (we're granted an exemption whereby already existing notice-and-notice systems are grandfathered).
    * Anti-counterfeiting measures were already agreed to a while back, so that's not new.
    * Minor broadcasting change regarding simultaneous substitution (Superbowl again).
    * We actually got internet safe harbours (ISPs can't be sued for the content of people using their service) into this agreement, which weren't in the TPP.

    We'll see how long this blog lasts
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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    For copyright, Life+70 is the standard for a lot of other countries. Some go even further (Mexico is actually Life+Century) but otherwise it's basically the norm for the Western Hemisphere, Europe + Russia and Turkey, and Australia. Africa, the Middle East, and Asia are more the Berne Convention of Life+50, but if I'm remembering library school right, I think more than a few of them have had proposals to up it to Life+70. Especially in Bollywood.

  • QanamilQanamil irregular Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    For copyright, Life+70 is the standard for a lot of other countries. Some go even further (Mexico is actually Life+Century) but otherwise it's basically the norm for the Western Hemisphere, Europe + Russia and Turkey, and Australia. Africa, the Middle East, and Asia are more the Berne Convention of Life+50, but if I'm remembering library school right, I think more than a few of them have had proposals to up it to Life+70. Especially in Bollywood.

    I'm in publishing and do a lot of copyright research, hate the years between 1923 and 1963, and you're totally right on all this.

    It changes between text and other formats I believe though, but have never dealt with non-text formats so don't really know.

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  • hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    edited October 2018
    So, from my reading, Canadian evaluations of the USMCA are generally neutral - slightly negative. The general consensus is that nothing substantive was really done. Most of the major changes were actually exactly in line with various elements of TPP that Canada and the US had already agreed to earlier when the US pulled out:

    Intellectual property chapter of USMCA proves Canada’s pragmatism
    While Canada gave up valuable ground on the length of copyright and data protection, such pragmatic concessions were inevitable. Canada was already prepared in 2013 to accept copyright term extension as the price of admission into the mega-regional negotiations toward the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP). ...

    We should give credit for the clever moves of Foreign Affairs Minister Chrystia Freeland, her negotiating team, and some highly qualified advisers throughout our government. Canada did not get suckered or steamrolled on this intellectual property chapter, as we have in the past.

    To the contrary, Canada was prepared to accept intellectual property obligations in the TPP, so similar concessions in USMCA were not a negotiating failure or pure giveaway. The strategic plan was to exploit the United States’ withdrawal from TPP, and then utilize flexibilities to restore balance at home. With that said, it will take serious effort to mitigate the damages of this chapter.

    But David Olive points out that even a mostly neutral renegotiation is actually a loss, due to the expenditure of resources, time, manpower, and political capital: Is USMCA really a ‘good day for Canada’? We’ll see about that:
    In its essentials, the USMCA is scarcely different from the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) it is to replace.

    The entire exercise was a waste of precious time and intellectual resources that distracted the Three Amigos from a range of other challenges.

    The USMCA also represents a lost opportunity.

    If the object had been to overhaul NAFTA for the 21st century, the USMCA would have incorporated the highest standards of worker, environmental and consumer protections of any trade deal yet devised.

    I'm linking the Toronto Star, which is is relatively left-centrist, but mostly because I think their pieces have the best analysis so far. The consensus across most Canadian media is the same, with a few regional concerns standing out - in particular for Quebec's dairy industry - and some partisan attacks. People are not happy about the new IP regulations and the dairy concessions, but those were going to be a part of TPP anyways, and glad about removal of Chapter 11 and minimum wage requirements, and entirely puzzled by the sunset clause and the "non-market country" clause.

    Generally though, a big fat nothingburger for all the drama.

    hippofant on
    Gnome-Interruptus
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