Interns having no free will and unable to make any decision for their selves.
Find me statements by Lewinski where she attests to feeling pressured or intimidated or afraid to refuse and fine. But it is entirely possible, that two consenting adults can have an affair.
Democrats zealously defending their politicians right to sleep with interns is Exhibit A in the whole "damage Bill Clinton has done to the Democratic Party" argument.
Now, at 44, I’m beginning (just beginning) to consider the implications of the power differentials that were so vast between a president and a White House intern. I’m beginning to entertain the notion that in such a circumstance the idea of consent might well be rendered moot. (Although power imbalances—and the ability to abuse them—do exist even when the sex has been consensual.)
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Except for the part where he denied the infidelity and Hillary went on to attack her in the press. I mean, each person's gonna react in their own way to a given situation but I have to think that if he had copped to the infidelity then we possibly wouldn't have seen Hillary going after her.
I hate to bring up the little bit of parallel here, but this is the similar kind of shit in regards to Trump/Daniels et al that most have been belaboring on about in that a government official attacking someone like that is going to signal to others that it's okay to attack that individual.
I may just be forgetting the whole ordeal but was their relationship not completely consensual and the problem was the infidelity?
Lewinsky herself wrote about it in hindsight that the power disparity made it wildly inappropriate and worse.
See that would have been a much better question to pose to Clinton. To cite Lewinski's thoughts on the relationship, rather than just bring up the matter broadly with no specifics. Craig Melvin did have a good opportunity, but his incompetence wasted it.
A consensual relationship with a power imbalance which is based on the promise or expectation of a reward (The Clinton Lewinsky relationship) is bad but almost completely inevitable. It should be discouraged vigorously, but there are more than enough subordinates who will happily engage in that relationship and tell their superior whatever is needed to keep them from 'realizing' the problem that you will never make much progress.
A relationship with a power imbalance which is based on the fear or threat of punishment, even if also accompanied by reward, cannot truly be consensual (Weinstein) is where we need to focus our efforts. Because no exploited party finds it valuable to be in that relationship.
"That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I may just be forgetting the whole ordeal but was their relationship not completely consensual and the problem was the infidelity?
Lewinsky herself wrote about it in hindsight that the power disparity made it wildly inappropriate and worse.
See that would have been a much better question to pose to Clinton. To cite Lewinski's thoughts on the relationship, rather than just bring up the matter broadly with no specifics. Craig Melvin did have a good opportunity, but his incompetence wasted it.
I've seen the clip being replayed over and over and each time he brings up the matter and asks Clinton if he thought he owed her and apology and if he thought differently of his actions based on the lens of today vs back then. None of them have had Melvin cite Lewinksi.
Viskod on
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I've seen the clip being replayed over and over and each time he brings up the matter and asks Clinton if he thought he owed her and apology and if he thought differently of his actions based on the lens of today vs back then. None of them have had Melvin cite Lewinksi.
@Viskod I am giving you precisely one chance here (edit - to not be super goosey, is what I mean). On the previous page I posted a tweet with a video embed (which started this part of the thread discussion). 20 seconds into that clip is when Craig Melvin brings up Lewinsky, and at 28 seconds is when the exact quoting you claim didn't happen does happen.
Edit - Oh, 27 seconds? Whatever, you have the resource right there.
I didn't watch the clip in your embed, but I've been hearing parts of it replayed all morning on MSNBC. I haven't caught anything about Melvin citing Lewinksi, so I looked it up on youtube and caught the one that Kelly played on the Today show and saw it. I'm glad he brought that up then.
Truthfully, there is probably no way he could have asked Clinton about this re: Me Too and gotten something decent out of him. He's always very defensive about it. But I would have tried to stress her feelings about it now more and made it about her, rather than being accusatory with Clinton and letting him make it about him.
I didn't watch the clip in your embed, but I've been hearing parts of it replayed all morning on MSNBC. I haven't caught anything about Melvin citing Lewinksi, so I looked it up on youtube and caught the one that Kelly played on the Today show and saw it. I'm glad he brought that up then.
Truthfully, there is probably no way he could have asked Clinton about this re: Me Too and gotten something decent out of him. He's always very defensive about it. But I would have tried to stress her feelings about it now more and made it about her, rather than being accusatory with Clinton and letting him make it about him.
Democrats saying that journalists have to be sensitive to protect the feelings of a power abusing politician is Exhibit B in the whole "damage Bill Clinton has done to the Democratic Party" argument.
I didn't watch the clip in your embed, but I've been hearing parts of it replayed all morning on MSNBC. I haven't caught anything about Melvin citing Lewinksi, so I looked it up on youtube and caught the one that Kelly played on the Today show and saw it. I'm glad he brought that up then.
Truthfully, there is probably no way he could have asked Clinton about this re: Me Too and gotten something decent out of him. He's always very defensive about it. But I would have tried to stress her feelings about it now more and made it about her, rather than being accusatory with Clinton and letting him make it about him.
Democrats saying that journalists have to be sensitive to protect the feelings of a power abusing politician is Exhibit B in the whole "damage Bill Clinton has done to the Democratic Party" argument.
I didn't watch the clip in your embed, but I've been hearing parts of it replayed all morning on MSNBC. I haven't caught anything about Melvin citing Lewinksi, so I looked it up on youtube and caught the one that Kelly played on the Today show and saw it. I'm glad he brought that up then.
Truthfully, there is probably no way he could have asked Clinton about this re: Me Too and gotten something decent out of him. He's always very defensive about it. But I would have tried to stress her feelings about it now more and made it about her, rather than being accusatory with Clinton and letting him make it about him.
Democrats saying that journalists have to be sensitive to protect the feelings of a power abusing politician is Exhibit B in the whole "damage Bill Clinton has done to the Democratic Party" argument.
Just imagine where the Dem party would be if they didn't had to defend Bill for the last 25 years.
Basically the same place?
Hey that's my line.
Anyway, power dynamics of fooling around with interns aside, there are credible criminal allegations against the man and he should have been disowned years ago.
Bill Shine, fired from Fox News for covering sexual harassers, is taking a job at the White House in some senior position, rumored to be communications director.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Congressman Jim Jordan, founder of the House Freedom Caucus, is accused of ignoring a team doctor who molested Ohio State wrestlers when Jim Jordan was a coach there.
Powerful GOP Rep. Jim Jordan accused of turning blind eye to sexual abuse as Ohio State wrestling coach
"At the end of the day, he is absolutely lying if he says he doesn’t know what was going on," a former Ohio State wrestler said.
The university announced in April that it was investigating accusations that Dr. Richard Strauss, who died in 2005, abused team members when he was the team doctor from the mid-1970s to late 1990s.
Jordan, who was assistant wrestling coach at the university from 1986 to 1994, has repeatedly said he knew nothing of the abuse until former students began speaking out this spring. His denials, however, have been met with skepticism and anger from some former members of the wrestling team.
Three former wrestlers told NBC News that it was common knowledge that Strauss showered regularly with the students and inappropriately touched them during appointments, and said it would have been impossible for Jordan to be unaware; one wrestler said he told Jordan directly about the abuse.
DiSabato, whose allegations against Strauss prompted Ohio State to open its investigation, called Jordan a “liar.”
“I considered Jim Jordan a friend,” DiSabato said. “But at the end of the day, he is absolutely lying if he says he doesn’t know what was going on.”
DiSabato said he reached out to Jordan this year, before going to the university, to tell Jordan that he planned to go public with his allegations. Jordan told him to “please leave me out of it,” DiSabato said. “He asked me not to get him involved.”
I have a hard time believing the coaches didn't know about the abuse in pretty much every one of these cases.
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MayabirdPecking at the keyboardRegistered Userregular
Jim Jordan didn't just know about it. He witnessed some of it himself in the showers. The doctor, who did not train with the team, would join them for showers anyway and would publicly masturbate in the middle of them, among other things.
Of course, because he has no shame, not only is he continuing to deny it, but he's calling the cops on the whistleblowing abused former wrestlers, claiming that he's being bullied.
And Trump is supporting him in his verbal diarrhea manner, saying he doesn't believe any of the former wrestlers and supports Jordan 100%.
So it's pretty safe to assume Jordan is 150% guilty.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
If he becomes Speaker, I guess there are two Hastert rules
Cool. All those conservatives and "independents" bitching about a lack of civility, should be rallying to Senator Warren's defense any moment now.
*looks at watch*
*crickets*
*tumbleweed*
Yeah, they can all fuck off now with their pearl clutching. When the most uncivil man in politics holds the highest office in the land, and you say nary a peep, or you try to counter it as being in Trump adjusted terms, then I've got no time for your arguments.
Former UFC heavyweight champion Mark Coleman has became the fifth former Ohio State University wrestler to claim publicly that Rep. Jim Jordan (R-Ohio) knew about allegations of sexual misconduct by a team doctor when he was an assistant coach in the 1990s.
Coleman, who roomed with Jordan during team trips and says he considers the lawmaker a friend, said in an interview with The Wall Street Journal that unless Jordan has "dementia," he knew about the allegations surrounding Dr. Richard Strauss.
“There’s no way unless he’s got dementia or something that he’s got no recollection of what was going on at Ohio State,” Coleman said. “I have nothing but respect for this man, I love this man, but he knew as far as I’m concerned.”
Nobody should be doubting that Jim Jordan knew, especially after the fifth wrestler saying he knew.
Coleman has been hit in the head. A lot. Like, it's a testament to his skull's thickness that he can still slowly spit out understandable sentences with only a few pauses between words.
.@Jim_Jordan on Strauss talk in the locker room: "Conversations in the locker room are entirely different than someone coming up to you and saying something abt abuse."
Jordan says Mike DeSabito had a "vendetta" against OSU and his family. Yetts, he says, knows better. He says he doesn't know why they are accusing him of this.
@Jim_Jordan is out swinging against these wrestlers who say he knew abt the OSU sex abuse problem. Says the timing is "suspect" and notes it came after Rosenstein hearing & as he looks to the speaker's gavel
Coleman has been hit in the head. A lot. Like, it's a testament to his skull's thickness that he can still slowly spit out understandable sentences with only a few pauses between words.
Never underestimate the human ability to compartmentalize
A half-dozen ex-wrestlers told POLITICO they were regularly harassed in their training facility by sexually aggressive men who attended the university or worked there. The voyeurs would masturbate while watching the wrestlers shower or sit in the sauna, or engage in sexual acts in the areas where the athletes trained, the former wrestlers said.
Larkins Hall, the building that housed athletic teams, became such a well-known target that people who frequented it at the time have reminisced in anonymous postings online how easy it was to ogle naked members of the wrestling team.
The situation was so egregious that former wrestling head coach Russ Hellickson would at times have to physically drag the gawkers out of the building, several sources familiar with his actions at the time said. Hellickson also pleaded with the university multiple times to move their athletes to a private facility, the sources said. Jordan served as Hellickson’s No. 2, and the coach has been described as Jordan’s mentor
Though none of the wrestlers and coaches interviewed blamed Jordan for the inappropriate behavior they experienced in Larkins Hall, they said he would have had to know about it. One former wrestler told POLITICO he saw Jordan yell at male voyeurs to get out of the sauna, though Jordan’s office refuted this account. Even three wrestlers who defended Jordan said it would have been impossible for him not to notice the pervasive toxic atmosphere surrounding the team.
“It was pretty common knowledge it was going on, yes,” said Rob Archer, who wrestled at Ohio State from 1993 to 1998 and called POLITICO to defend Jordan. Archer was speaking of the alleged voyeurism at Larkins Hall. “I don’t think anybody reported anything to a coach because it wasn’t ‘abuse.’ It was more like they were going, ‘Hey, this is inappropriate,’ We’d deal with it, and we’d go on.”
Dunyasha Yetts, a former champion wrestler at the university, agreed that “sexual abuse” wasn’t used to describe what was occurring. But he accused Jordan of playing word games. Yetts said he was easily the most vocal person on the team to complain about Strauss and the Larkins Hall situation. Yetts claimed he not only told Jordan about Strauss’ behavior, but asked Jordan and Hellickson to confront the doctor with him.
Pardos also defended Jordan and Hellickson, but suggested both were aware that Strauss’ behavior was unusual.
“Did Russ and Jimmy know about inappropriate behavior? Yes,” Pardos said. “Did they know about abusive behavior? No, absolutely not.”
No House ethics investigation into Jordan. Substantially improves his chance of getting away with it.
Paul Ryan being a political hack and a moral coward.
This is my shocked face.
The man should be all out of fucks to give, but it seems being a spineless shitweasel is a permanent condition. Need that conservative pipeline for future income from book deals and media appearances. I hope he's not able to spin this into some kind of revisionist legacy like Spicer appears to have. He deserves to be completely forgotten by history except as a footnote as the most feckless Speaker in modern history.
"They are people who have loose affiliation with a deep state out to get Jim Jordan and this is the way they are manifesting their hatred for a man who is doing everything to fight for the regular folks in this country."
Posts
Democrats zealously defending their politicians right to sleep with interns is Exhibit A in the whole "damage Bill Clinton has done to the Democratic Party" argument.
Also:
Except for the part where he denied the infidelity and Hillary went on to attack her in the press. I mean, each person's gonna react in their own way to a given situation but I have to think that if he had copped to the infidelity then we possibly wouldn't have seen Hillary going after her.
I hate to bring up the little bit of parallel here, but this is the similar kind of shit in regards to Trump/Daniels et al that most have been belaboring on about in that a government official attacking someone like that is going to signal to others that it's okay to attack that individual.
FFXIV - Milliardo Beoulve/Sargatanas
See that would have been a much better question to pose to Clinton. To cite Lewinski's thoughts on the relationship, rather than just bring up the matter broadly with no specifics. Craig Melvin did have a good opportunity, but his incompetence wasted it.
A relationship with a power imbalance which is based on the fear or threat of punishment, even if also accompanied by reward, cannot truly be consensual (Weinstein) is where we need to focus our efforts. Because no exploited party finds it valuable to be in that relationship.
You didn't watch the clip, did you Viskod?
Edit - Oh, 27 seconds? Whatever, you have the resource right there.
Truthfully, there is probably no way he could have asked Clinton about this re: Me Too and gotten something decent out of him. He's always very defensive about it. But I would have tried to stress her feelings about it now more and made it about her, rather than being accusatory with Clinton and letting him make it about him.
Democrats saying that journalists have to be sensitive to protect the feelings of a power abusing politician is Exhibit B in the whole "damage Bill Clinton has done to the Democratic Party" argument.
I'm, saying the opposite.
Oooh. Ok then.
What are you even talking about?
Hey that's my line.
Anyway, power dynamics of fooling around with interns aside, there are credible criminal allegations against the man and he should have been disowned years ago.
I thought huckabee sanders is communications director?
pleasepaypreacher.net
She's "appalled that the media suggested she's thinking about leaving this year."
IE: She's thinking about leaving this year.
Nah, just the coffee girl.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/powerful-gop-rep-jim-jordan-accused-turning-blind-eye-sexual-n888386
I have a hard time believing the coaches didn't know about the abuse in pretty much every one of these cases.
Of course, because he has no shame, not only is he continuing to deny it, but he's calling the cops on the whistleblowing abused former wrestlers, claiming that he's being bullied.
And Trump is supporting him in his verbal diarrhea manner, saying he doesn't believe any of the former wrestlers and supports Jordan 100%.
So it's pretty safe to assume Jordan is 150% guilty.
*looks at watch*
*crickets*
*tumbleweed*
Yeah, they can all fuck off now with their pearl clutching. When the most uncivil man in politics holds the highest office in the land, and you say nary a peep, or you try to counter it as being in Trump adjusted terms, then I've got no time for your arguments.
One wag called him the "Joe Paterno of Denny Hasterts", which seems on the nose.
pleasepaypreacher.net
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Politico reporter:
pleasepaypreacher.net
Never underestimate the human ability to compartmentalize
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/06/jim-jordan-harassment-ohio-state-wrestling-699192
"Nothing but respect" is one of those polite circumlocutions that is best translated as "Nothing like respect"
No House ethics investigation into Jordan. Substantially improves his chance of getting away with it.
This is my shocked face.
The man should be all out of fucks to give, but it seems being a spineless shitweasel is a permanent condition. Need that conservative pipeline for future income from book deals and media appearances. I hope he's not able to spin this into some kind of revisionist legacy like Spicer appears to have. He deserves to be completely forgotten by history except as a footnote as the most feckless Speaker in modern history.
Talking Points Memo editor: