The Sphinx guy Settra starts with is dominant. He can pretty much take on half the army on his own
The scorpion Arkhan starts with is about that good as well, and I assume the Hierotitan Khatep gets is similarly effective. Really makes taking the Necrotect as your free hero super worth it, as being able to heal your crazy-ass monster makes it very hard to lose.
Arkhan seems pretty good at the beginning since he gets an ability that gives 44% physical resistance in a sizeable AoE and can hold his own in melee while spirit leeching enemy commanders. Plus Crypt Ghouls are better than your trash skeletons (though the VC units don't interact with the realm of souls) and getting Dire Wolves early helps you eat all those Bretonnian peasants you'll be fighting faster. Though even with two armies taking down the Dwarves near his starting position for my second book was a hell of a fight. Stupid armored jerks.
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
I am very bad at these games. Started a campaign as Tyrion, who is supposedly easy? Was immediately beset by two dark elf armies. Wiped out one and started to advance, when suddenly one of the high elves near me started to attack me and ultimately crushed my army after a running set of battles. I just never felt like I could build enough units to get ahead.
Any tips for getting started? I feel like I am missing something fundamental.
What difficulty are you running? Also my best advice for your first time is take it slow and build up your starting province. Get a good base going a then spread out. Going out to fight thick and fast right away without knowing what's going on often leads to being spread too thin.
What difficulty are you running? Also my best advice for your first time is take it slow and build up your starting province. Get a good base going a then spread out. Going out to fight thick and fast right away without knowing what's going on often leads to being spread too thin.
With WH2, one of the catches is that each additional army significantly increases your upkeep. So if you expand too early, you seriously bog down your economy, which slows down both your development of higher tier units and your total army size. By expanding slowly, you prolong the amount of time that a single army (or two, eventually) is all you need.
Another thing in WH2 that seems REALLY useful for both elf factions is to send out a secondary lord with a small to moderate sized army to both meet everyone (if you're high elf) and grab the ocean "treasure chests" which can seriously fuel early economic growth. The high elves (elfes?) get advantages with interacting with people, so meeting people quickly can also get you going faster.
What difficulty are you running? Also my best advice for your first time is take it slow and build up your starting province. Get a good base going a then spread out. Going out to fight thick and fast right away without knowing what's going on often leads to being spread too thin.
With WH2, one of the catches is that each additional army significantly increases your upkeep. So if you expand too early, you seriously bog down your economy, which slows down both your development of higher tier units and your total army size. By expanding slowly, you prolong the amount of time that a single army (or two, eventually) is all you need.
Another thing in WH2 that seems REALLY useful for both elf factions is to send out a secondary lord with a small to moderate sized army to both meet everyone (if you're high elf) and grab the ocean "treasure chests" which can seriously fuel early economic growth. The high elves (elfes?) get advantages with interacting with people, so meeting people quickly can also get you going faster.
You might get away with just the lord (and no units) for the treasure-hunting army. Just don't get too attached to them.
I am very bad at these games. Started a campaign as Tyrion, who is supposedly easy? Was immediately beset by two dark elf armies. Wiped out one and started to advance, when suddenly one of the high elves near me started to attack me and ultimately crushed my army after a running set of battles. I just never felt like I could build enough units to get ahead.
Any tips for getting started? I feel like I am missing something fundamental.
The basic ebb and flow of TW games is you take on only as big of a fight as you can win, replenish your troops, then strike out again and take territory before they can rebuild their stack.
If you win the first fight hard enough, you can take territory right away and have your troops replenish there to speed up the process (this can be very risky though if you haven't scouted ahead, and don't know that there are other enemy stacks within attack range that can crush your depleted army inside the conquered settlement the following turn).
While you expand on one front, you want to make the other one as safe as possible through non-aggression pacts. Your capital has an insane garrison, so that's your safe front in the beginning right there.
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AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
edited January 2018
Oh yeah that reminds me No Extra Upkeep is one of my must have mods.
You still pay all the Upkeep that you are supposed to pay for units/lords, this just removes the asinine additional hidden 33% increase to your total Upkeep whenever you recruit a Lord on top of whatever the game says is their Upkeep. Seriously dumb.
Axen on
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
The Tomb Kings je nes pas de give a fuck attitude to recruitment costs is a great idea and gives them a unique style. Lost all of your units to a Pyrrhic victory? Who cares?! They'll be back. Even if they were moops, or elite units. This is a good faction, but a very slow, patient one.
I kind of like the Vampires, but the Tomb Kings are really scratching the Undead itch.
Yes I would like a giant army of silent skeletons to march across the world, crushing all resistance.
"The only way to get rid of a temptation is to give into it." - Oscar Wilde
"We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Waffles or whateverPreviously known as, I shit you not, "Waffen"Registered Userregular
Oh yeah that reminds me No Extra Upkeep is one of my must have mods.
You still pay all the Upkeep that you are supposed to pay for units/lords, this just removes the asinine additional hidden 33% increase to your total Upkeep whenever you recruit a Lord on top of whatever the game says is their Upkeep. Seriously dumb.
That was a mod I immediately updated after my first Mortal Empire's Empire run. I was like, "Why the hell can I only afford 1.5 stacks while controlling half of the Empire while everyone else is running 6-12 stacks with only one province!? " Made the game enjoyable again in a good way.
Oh yeah that reminds me No Extra Upkeep is one of my must have mods.
You still pay all the Upkeep that you are supposed to pay for units/lords, this just removes the asinine additional hidden 33% increase to your total Upkeep whenever you recruit a Lord on top of whatever the game says is their Upkeep. Seriously dumb.
Is that in addition to the listed upkeep increase from the number of armies? That you can see by mousing over the icon at the top?
Ivar on
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AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
Oh yeah that reminds me No Extra Upkeep is one of my must have mods.
You still pay all the Upkeep that you are supposed to pay for units/lords, this just removes the asinine additional hidden 33% increase to your total Upkeep whenever you recruit a Lord on top of whatever the game says is their Upkeep. Seriously dumb.
Is that in addition to the listed upkeep increase from the number of armies? That you can see by mousing over the icon at the top?
Yeah. You have the listed upkeep (say 600 monies) and then the hidden flat percent increase that works off your total upkeep. This mod just removes the hidden percent increase.
I didn't even notice it myself at first, but during one of my early games I had an income of like 1k and I needed a Lord for random treasure hunting. So I recruited the Lord who cost around 600 which as far as I was aware would leave me with an income around 400. Once I recruited the lord I was suddenly like -300 some. Needless to say I was most confused.
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
Oh yeah that reminds me No Extra Upkeep is one of my must have mods.
You still pay all the Upkeep that you are supposed to pay for units/lords, this just removes the asinine additional hidden 33% increase to your total Upkeep whenever you recruit a Lord on top of whatever the game says is their Upkeep. Seriously dumb.
Is that in addition to the listed upkeep increase from the number of armies? That you can see by mousing over the icon at the top?
No. That IS the calculated additional cost he's referring to. So it's not hidden.
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
Khemrian Warsphinx is definitely my MVP so far. Get it in there ASAP because nothing early game can kill it -- the necrotect healing is just overkill right now. Ending battles with just Settra and his giant cat is pretty common and I'm not complaining.
The recruitment is definitely different, but pretty fun at the end of the day. I terribly micro'd my chariots in my first battle and lost them both, but woohoo I just get them back for free next turn.
Oh yeah that reminds me No Extra Upkeep is one of my must have mods.
You still pay all the Upkeep that you are supposed to pay for units/lords, this just removes the asinine additional hidden 33% increase to your total Upkeep whenever you recruit a Lord on top of whatever the game says is their Upkeep. Seriously dumb.
Is that in addition to the listed upkeep increase from the number of armies? That you can see by mousing over the icon at the top?
No. That IS the calculated additional cost he's referring to. So it's not hidden.
Also this. It's definitely not hidden, and completely tied to your difficulty. It's probably negligible as the poster asking said he's playing on easy.
From having watched a streamer struggle with them, chariots definitely have terrible pathing/AI. Like you will directly tell them to do something and then they'll just "nah fuck that going to do the opposite."
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I discovered that Tomb Kings have an AOE spell that will fucking ruin your day and also that I do not have it.
Is it more like a vortex spell? Sandstorm maybe?
Probably Sakhmet's Incantation of the Skullstorm.
In other notes:
a. Carrion are considered small. Which means that YOUR SPEARS ARE USELESS YOU ELVEN BASTARDS!
b. I love Chariot archers. They have exactly the same stats as regular TK chariots, but they also shoot arrows. In every direction. Which means that while you're waiting for the right moment to charge you can pepper your enemies with arrows and be a general annoyance! It also means that whenever you don't want to micro chariots you just put them on skirmish mode.
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
I just wish you could control which direction the vortex moves - all too often it starts going in the opposite direction of the enemy line.
I bet you also want to control what direction your fanatics spin in and whether your doomwheels veer off course and crush your own dudes.
Having something move the wrong way is so warhammer
"The only way to get rid of a temptation is to give into it." - Oscar Wilde
"We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
I started a Legendary Exiles of Nehek campaign and it has been really fun! I will echo the statement that the unique economic style of the Tomb Kings lets them side-step a great deal of the negatives for higher difficulties. Getting a new army every 15ish turns is WAY better than you can ever really achieve on Legendary. It's fun!
That start is pretty rough though. -40 diplomatic penalties with everyone around you and all you start with is a level 2 minor settlement - the rest of your province is a wretched and extremely spread-out ruin. It might have felt impossible if not for the rite that lets you build-up a ruin instantly to level 3 - absolutely critical for that start. With that momentum I have conquered Naggarond and put down the Witch King in only 45 turns.
I was stuck for my first few turns raiding my own lands and staring down beastmen while waiting for an expansion opportunity. Self raiding seemed worse- I could generate little to no money from my personal rebels. I wonder if they nerfed it? Strangely it seems rebels that are of a different faction (IE: killing Dark Elven rebels as the Tomb Kings) are still are lucrative as ever to murder.
I just wish you could control which direction the vortex moves - all too often it starts going in the opposite direction of the enemy line.
I bet you also want to control what direction your fanatics spin in and whether your doomwheels veer off course and crush your own dudes.
Having something move the wrong way is so warhammer
At least I can make my big fuck-off flaming skull go in my desired direction.
PS4 - Mrfuzzyhat
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited January 2018
To answer some questions from followups to my "halp I am bad" post:
I was playing on Normal. I didn't really try and go out and expand, but the Cult of Excess around me pretty much immediately besieged my main city with equal power armies. I drove them off but I lost a lot of troops doing it.
Speaking of battles, what are the general rules around using auto-resolve? It seems to me like auto-resolve is really most useful when you grossly overpower the enemy. When the battles are closely matched I feel like I can sway the battle with proper tactics over the auto-resolve option. Does my gut feeling about that seem correct, or are people following different rules for when to auto-resolve?
To answer some questions from followups to my "halp I am bad" post:
I was playing on Normal. I didn't really try and go out and expand, but the Cult of Excess around me pretty much immediately besieged my main city with equal power armies. I drove them off but I lost a lot of troops doing it.
Speaking of battles, what are the general rules around using auto-resolve? It seems to me like auto-resolve is really most useful when you grossly overpower the enemy. When the battles are closely matched I feel like I can sway the battle with proper tactics over the auto-resolve option. Does my gut feeling about that seem correct, or are people following different rules for when to auto-resolve?
Most times this is true. However, some factions and units can game the autoresolve and use it to win battles that should have been unwinnable.
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
I am not a good player in Total War, I only finished second game once, as dark Elves, after 6 restarts, because my ass was getting kicked in early game.
Now I started as Settra, and surprise, my ass is getting kicked.
Should I concentrate on destroying greenmen as soon as possible after securing second city, or should I get third one first before attacking them? Any more tips?
I am not a good player in Total War, I only finished second game once, as dark Elves, after 6 restarts, because my ass was getting kicked in early game.
Now I started as Settra, and surprise, my ass is getting kicked.
Should I concentrate on destroying greenmen as soon as possible after securing second city, or should I get third one first before attacking them? Any more tips?
Haven't played Settra but here's what I do in general:
If you have only one army, try to bait out theirs from their city and ambush it if possible.
If you have more than one army, divide and conquer.
Try to only fight on one front at a time. Not always possible, but secure your flanks with non-agression pacts if you can.
Also. Tomb Kings suck at offensive siege battles. Since everything you have that's capable of going over a wall is inferior to theirs your only hope is making a breech (or several) and sending through your toughest monsters.
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
Yeah, in battles your base infantry are there solely to buy time and space for your archers, constructs, and cav/chariots. Make sure you put your double-sword infantry behind your front line and charge the enemy infantry after they are already engaged
I am not a good player in Total War, I only finished second game once, as dark Elves, after 6 restarts, because my ass was getting kicked in early game.
Now I started as Settra, and surprise, my ass is getting kicked.
Should I concentrate on destroying greenmen as soon as possible after securing second city, or should I get third one first before attacking them? Any more tips?
Are you referring to settling the ruins to complete the province? Don't bother, settling ruins will slow you down too much because you'll have to wait multiple turns to replenish. Keep pushing until you wipe out top knotz, the warsphinx and chariots should crush them no problem.
Also. Tomb Kings suck at offensive siege battles. Since everything you have that's capable of going over a wall is inferior to theirs your only hope is making a breech (or several) and sending through your toughest monsters.
Ah, so treat sieges like the Beastmen do. Break down the gates, flood the walls, and hope something breaks through their lines.
From having watched a streamer struggle with them, chariots definitely have terrible pathing/AI. Like you will directly tell them to do something and then they'll just "nah fuck that going to do the opposite."
Thus far, I disagree! I'm not a chariot master but I finally got used to them as non-tomb kings factions, and am having a lot of fun with the TK versions. You just need to make sure the enemy formation is thin enough to pull through or they're in trouble. I lost mine the first battle because I engaged with them waaay too early without support. I learned my lesson and the 4 in my army have been tearing it up with a little micro. It's easy to confuse "being trapped in a morass of infantry" with "not listening to my commands" -- if they could instantly get out once engaging they would be waaay too good.
I have zero time for chariots. Maybe these guys are the exception, but I just skip over chariots 100% of the time. Too much micro for mediocre results. I'll micro for skirmishers and that's it.
I dunno, chariots got me about 350-400 kills in a tough battle. They are well worth the micro if you know where to use them. They seem to be especially good at chasing down ranged units and skirmishers.
Then again, my first battle had 1chariotget stuck in a mob without a charge and they got wrecked. 0 kills
I don't think tomb king chariots are particularly good. high elf and chaos chariots perform way better, gorebeast chariots are pretty underrated and can rack up some serious kills
the thing I remember being a little wonky about tyrion's start is you don't want to attack the first turn, sit tight and recruit for a turn then attack. with those 3 extra units you can roll the initial dark elf faction. kroq gar and dwarfs can march straight to victory because their opponents are fodder versus armored units. courseconne and wood elfs also have notable starts in that there's no one to fight, you hang around and build alliances.
all the really difficult starts are in the new world as a side effect of the size condensing
You know, looking at the map, I think there would totally be room to throw an Araby LL or two even in the condensed Mortal Empires Campaign. Maybe the main one on Araby coast in place of one of the Crusader factions, then a secondary lord in the great desert somewhere.
Posts
The scorpion Arkhan starts with is about that good as well, and I assume the Hierotitan Khatep gets is similarly effective. Really makes taking the Necrotect as your free hero super worth it, as being able to heal your crazy-ass monster makes it very hard to lose.
Arkhan seems pretty good at the beginning since he gets an ability that gives 44% physical resistance in a sizeable AoE and can hold his own in melee while spirit leeching enemy commanders. Plus Crypt Ghouls are better than your trash skeletons (though the VC units don't interact with the realm of souls) and getting Dire Wolves early helps you eat all those Bretonnian peasants you'll be fighting faster. Though even with two armies taking down the Dwarves near his starting position for my second book was a hell of a fight. Stupid armored jerks.
Any tips for getting started? I feel like I am missing something fundamental.
With WH2, one of the catches is that each additional army significantly increases your upkeep. So if you expand too early, you seriously bog down your economy, which slows down both your development of higher tier units and your total army size. By expanding slowly, you prolong the amount of time that a single army (or two, eventually) is all you need.
Another thing in WH2 that seems REALLY useful for both elf factions is to send out a secondary lord with a small to moderate sized army to both meet everyone (if you're high elf) and grab the ocean "treasure chests" which can seriously fuel early economic growth. The high elves (elfes?) get advantages with interacting with people, so meeting people quickly can also get you going faster.
You might get away with just the lord (and no units) for the treasure-hunting army. Just don't get too attached to them.
The basic ebb and flow of TW games is you take on only as big of a fight as you can win, replenish your troops, then strike out again and take territory before they can rebuild their stack.
If you win the first fight hard enough, you can take territory right away and have your troops replenish there to speed up the process (this can be very risky though if you haven't scouted ahead, and don't know that there are other enemy stacks within attack range that can crush your depleted army inside the conquered settlement the following turn).
While you expand on one front, you want to make the other one as safe as possible through non-aggression pacts. Your capital has an insane garrison, so that's your safe front in the beginning right there.
You still pay all the Upkeep that you are supposed to pay for units/lords, this just removes the asinine additional hidden 33% increase to your total Upkeep whenever you recruit a Lord on top of whatever the game says is their Upkeep. Seriously dumb.
Yes I would like a giant army of silent skeletons to march across the world, crushing all resistance.
"We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
That was a mod I immediately updated after my first Mortal Empire's Empire run. I was like, "Why the hell can I only afford 1.5 stacks while controlling half of the Empire while everyone else is running 6-12 stacks with only one province!? " Made the game enjoyable again in a good way.
Is that in addition to the listed upkeep increase from the number of armies? That you can see by mousing over the icon at the top?
Yeah. You have the listed upkeep (say 600 monies) and then the hidden flat percent increase that works off your total upkeep. This mod just removes the hidden percent increase.
I didn't even notice it myself at first, but during one of my early games I had an income of like 1k and I needed a Lord for random treasure hunting. So I recruited the Lord who cost around 600 which as far as I was aware would leave me with an income around 400. Once I recruited the lord I was suddenly like -300 some. Needless to say I was most confused.
No. That IS the calculated additional cost he's referring to. So it's not hidden.
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
The recruitment is definitely different, but pretty fun at the end of the day. I terribly micro'd my chariots in my first battle and lost them both, but woohoo I just get them back for free next turn.
Also this. It's definitely not hidden, and completely tied to your difficulty. It's probably negligible as the poster asking said he's playing on easy.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Is it more like a vortex spell? Sandstorm maybe?
pleasepaypreacher.net
Probably Sakhmet's Incantation of the Skullstorm.
In other notes:
a. Carrion are considered small. Which means that YOUR SPEARS ARE USELESS YOU ELVEN BASTARDS!
b. I love Chariot archers. They have exactly the same stats as regular TK chariots, but they also shoot arrows. In every direction. Which means that while you're waiting for the right moment to charge you can pepper your enemies with arrows and be a general annoyance! It also means that whenever you don't want to micro chariots you just put them on skirmish mode.
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
I bet you also want to control what direction your fanatics spin in and whether your doomwheels veer off course and crush your own dudes.
Having something move the wrong way is so warhammer
"We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
That start is pretty rough though. -40 diplomatic penalties with everyone around you and all you start with is a level 2 minor settlement - the rest of your province is a wretched and extremely spread-out ruin. It might have felt impossible if not for the rite that lets you build-up a ruin instantly to level 3 - absolutely critical for that start. With that momentum I have conquered Naggarond and put down the Witch King in only 45 turns.
I was stuck for my first few turns raiding my own lands and staring down beastmen while waiting for an expansion opportunity. Self raiding seemed worse- I could generate little to no money from my personal rebels. I wonder if they nerfed it? Strangely it seems rebels that are of a different faction (IE: killing Dark Elven rebels as the Tomb Kings) are still are lucrative as ever to murder.
At least I can make my big fuck-off flaming skull go in my desired direction.
I was playing on Normal. I didn't really try and go out and expand, but the Cult of Excess around me pretty much immediately besieged my main city with equal power armies. I drove them off but I lost a lot of troops doing it.
Speaking of battles, what are the general rules around using auto-resolve? It seems to me like auto-resolve is really most useful when you grossly overpower the enemy. When the battles are closely matched I feel like I can sway the battle with proper tactics over the auto-resolve option. Does my gut feeling about that seem correct, or are people following different rules for when to auto-resolve?
Most times this is true. However, some factions and units can game the autoresolve and use it to win battles that should have been unwinnable.
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
Now I started as Settra, and surprise, my ass is getting kicked.
Should I concentrate on destroying greenmen as soon as possible after securing second city, or should I get third one first before attacking them? Any more tips?
It's really fun to run her into enemy lines and blow up. She's pretty decent at duelling too, only problems I've had are going toe-to-toe with Queek.
But yeah, no upkeep, no unit costs makes Really Hard sooooo much easier than most races. I'm going to have three armies in the early-mid game!
Three!
Haven't played Settra but here's what I do in general:
If you have only one army, try to bait out theirs from their city and ambush it if possible.
If you have more than one army, divide and conquer.
Try to only fight on one front at a time. Not always possible, but secure your flanks with non-agression pacts if you can.
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
Are you referring to settling the ruins to complete the province? Don't bother, settling ruins will slow you down too much because you'll have to wait multiple turns to replenish. Keep pushing until you wipe out top knotz, the warsphinx and chariots should crush them no problem.
Ah, so treat sieges like the Beastmen do. Break down the gates, flood the walls, and hope something breaks through their lines.
Thus far, I disagree! I'm not a chariot master but I finally got used to them as non-tomb kings factions, and am having a lot of fun with the TK versions. You just need to make sure the enemy formation is thin enough to pull through or they're in trouble. I lost mine the first battle because I engaged with them waaay too early without support. I learned my lesson and the 4 in my army have been tearing it up with a little micro. It's easy to confuse "being trapped in a morass of infantry" with "not listening to my commands" -- if they could instantly get out once engaging they would be waaay too good.
Then again, my first battle had 1chariotget stuck in a mob without a charge and they got wrecked. 0 kills
the thing I remember being a little wonky about tyrion's start is you don't want to attack the first turn, sit tight and recruit for a turn then attack. with those 3 extra units you can roll the initial dark elf faction. kroq gar and dwarfs can march straight to victory because their opponents are fodder versus armored units. courseconne and wood elfs also have notable starts in that there's no one to fight, you hang around and build alliances.
all the really difficult starts are in the new world as a side effect of the size condensing