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I'm old, and I don't get Bitcoin [Cryptocurrency and society].

manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?!Registered User regular
edited January 2018 in Debate and/or Discourse
So Bitcoin and its derivatives are essentially a consumer created form of currency independent of banks. Money, as a unit of trade, has no intrinsic value in it of itself other than what believe it holds. Bitcoin can be traded for other forms of currency, or goods and services by those who accept it. Because it's not tied to a bank or government, it's not subject to the same kinds of regulations. It is "mined" by solving complex math problems, usually via farming computer banks with high quality GPUs. In addtion, Bitcoin is difficult to crack because embedded in the currency itself is a ledger displaying whether or not it has been used. That's how I understand things as a moderate computer user.

It's also made people millionaires overnight. If you had bought $300 worth of bitcoin when it was traded for $1 per coin, that would have been worth 6 million at the heigth of its value (approximately 20k).

So to make a long story short, what implications does this have on the larger economy? Is Bitcoin and its ilk really the wave of the future or just a bubble?

manwiththemachinegun on
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Posts

  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    Dogecoin is the one true currency.

    JragghenJuliusthatassemblyguyAresProphetAiouaLostNinjaForarAridholPhoenix-DcloudeagleShadowfireJoeUserAlistair HuttonbowenRchanenZilla360shrykeGiggles_FunsworthElJeffeLord PalingtonsurrealitycheckGennenalyse RuebenVegemyteRear Admiral ChocoMegaMekelectricitylikesmeKristmas KthulhuJoolanderHakkekagemRahmanisanstodokimecaligynefobNiryaTNTrooperDevlin_DragonushawkboxElvenshaeGnizmoemp123NightDragonKurganDouglasDangerLord_Asmodeus
  • matt has a problemmatt has a problem Points to 'off' Points to 'on'Registered User regular
    First, an informative video.



    nibXTE7.png
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  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    For the larger economy? Basically nil aside from people who don't understand it speculating and driving up the value and then getting caught in the inevitable crash. I really, really recommend not reading threads of people who lost their life savings.

    Wave of the future? Not bitcoin itself, that's for sure. Bitcoin's cap is 7 transactions per second. Compare that to Visa's 24,000. Furthermore, the currency is inherently deflationary by its very nature, which means that you're actively encouraged to NOT use bitcoins as a currency, but rather hold onto them and have them appreciate. It's basically designed to create bubbles so people can try to get in and cash out.

    What's more concerning is how much power is being wasted on it.

    https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/12/bitcoins-insane-energy-consumption-explained/
    The skyrocketing value of Bitcoin is leading to soaring energy consumption. According to one widely cited website that tracks the subject, the Bitcoin network is consuming power at an annual rate of 32TWh—about as much as Denmark. By the site's calculations, each Bitcoin transaction consumes 250kWh, enough to power homes for nine days.

    Naturally, this is leading to concerns about sustainability. Eric Holthaus, a writer for Grist, projects that, at current growth rates, the Bitcoin network will "use as much electricity as the entire world does today" by early 2020. "This is an unsustainable trajectory," he writes.

    It's fucking stupid.

    DoodmannMrVyngaardVeagleJuliusFencingsaxxraydogmrondeauTofystedethZekGnome-InterruptusQuidForarAridholPhoenix-DcloudeagleShadowfireknitdanJohnny ChopsockyMvrckbowenRchanenZilla360RiemannLivesArdolshrykeL Ron HowardGiggles_FunsworthHavelock2.0KetBraMillLord Palingtonredxdispatch.oHefflingBandableNarbusGennenalyse RuebenVegemyteDisruptedCapitalistTOGSolidMegaMekKristmas KthulhuGimHakkekageKamarBurnagekimeBullheadNiryaglithertGreenEl MuchoNobeardElldrenDescendant XFlying CouchElvenshaejdarksunKetarAbsoluteZerostopgapWeaver
  • djmitchelladjmitchella Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    One of the phone games I play has a 'watch an advert for more energy' option, so I let it show me those, I can just ignore them while it tries to convince me to buy other games or whatever. Sometimes it's links to other products, too.

    Bitcoin is now something that's being advertised in phone games with adverts that look like this:

    ABMnJYw.png

    djmitchella on
  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    Jragghen wrote: »
    For the larger economy? Basically nil aside from people who don't understand it speculating and driving up the value and then getting caught in the inevitable crash. I really, really recommend not reading threads of people who lost their life savings.

    Wave of the future? Not bitcoin itself, that's for sure. Bitcoin's cap is 7 transactions per second. Compare that to Visa's 24,000. Furthermore, the currency is inherently deflationary by its very nature, which means that you're actively encouraged to NOT use bitcoins as a currency, but rather hold onto them and have them appreciate. It's basically designed to create bubbles so people can try to get in and cash out.

    What's more concerning is how much power is being wasted on it.

    https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/12/bitcoins-insane-energy-consumption-explained/
    The skyrocketing value of Bitcoin is leading to soaring energy consumption. According to one widely cited website that tracks the subject, the Bitcoin network is consuming power at an annual rate of 32TWh—about as much as Denmark. By the site's calculations, each Bitcoin transaction consumes 250kWh, enough to power homes for nine days.

    Naturally, this is leading to concerns about sustainability. Eric Holthaus, a writer for Grist, projects that, at current growth rates, the Bitcoin network will "use as much electricity as the entire world does today" by early 2020. "This is an unsustainable trajectory," he writes.

    It's fucking stupid.

    Aren't these two things true for all crypto? Not the exact numbers, but those being the two bottlenecks.
    It basically makes the whole thing pants on head stupid right?

    Doodmann on
  • matt has a problemmatt has a problem Points to 'off' Points to 'on'Registered User regular
    Bitcoin's popular enough for scam emails too, I got one about a week ago requiring me to "verify the integrity of your wallet" by logging in.

    nibXTE7.png
    thatassemblyguyAlistair HuttonshrykeMegaMekGreenLoisLane
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    So Bitcoin and its derivatives are essentially a consumer created form of currency independent of banks. Money, as a unit of trade, has no intrinsic value in it of itself other than what believe it holds. Bitcoin can be traded for other forms of currency, or goods and services by those who accept it. Because it's not tied to a bank or government, it's not subject to the same kinds of regulations. It is "mined" by solving complex math problems, usually via farming computer banks with high quality GPUs. In addtion, Bitcoin is difficult to crack because embedded in the currency itself is a ledger displaying whether or not it has been used. That's how I understand things as a moderate computer user.

    It's also made people millionaires overnight. If you had bought $300 worth of bitcoin when it was traded for $1 per coin, that would have been worth 6 million at the heigth of its value (approximately 20k).

    So to make a long story short, what implications does this have on the larger economy? Is Bitcoin and its ilk really the wave of the future or just a bubble?

    Its made people millionaires on paper

    is there any evidence of people cashing out to the tune of millions of actual dollars?

    FencingsaxKayne Red RobeRchanendispatch.oGennenalyse RuebenelectricitylikesmeKristmas KthulhuApothe0sisEl MuchoMatev
  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue Registered User regular
    Bitcoin's popular enough for scam emails too, I got one about a week ago requiring me to "verify the integrity of your wallet" by logging in.

    It's also the method of choice for ransomware!

    LxX6eco.jpg
    PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
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  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    something inherently deflationary is terrible for a currency.

    Even gold isn't as bad. Mining output ebbs and flows but actually gets better over time due to better tech and methods.

    DoodmannFencingsaxshrykeKetBraGennenalyse RuebenElldren
  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Doodmann wrote: »
    Jragghen wrote: »
    For the larger economy? Basically nil aside from people who don't understand it speculating and driving up the value and then getting caught in the inevitable crash. I really, really recommend not reading threads of people who lost their life savings.

    Wave of the future? Not bitcoin itself, that's for sure. Bitcoin's cap is 7 transactions per second. Compare that to Visa's 24,000. Furthermore, the currency is inherently deflationary by its very nature, which means that you're actively encouraged to NOT use bitcoins as a currency, but rather hold onto them and have them appreciate. It's basically designed to create bubbles so people can try to get in and cash out.

    What's more concerning is how much power is being wasted on it.

    https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/12/bitcoins-insane-energy-consumption-explained/
    The skyrocketing value of Bitcoin is leading to soaring energy consumption. According to one widely cited website that tracks the subject, the Bitcoin network is consuming power at an annual rate of 32TWh—about as much as Denmark. By the site's calculations, each Bitcoin transaction consumes 250kWh, enough to power homes for nine days.

    Naturally, this is leading to concerns about sustainability. Eric Holthaus, a writer for Grist, projects that, at current growth rates, the Bitcoin network will "use as much electricity as the entire world does today" by early 2020. "This is an unsustainable trajectory," he writes.

    It's fucking stupid.

    Aren't these two things true for all crypto? Not the exact numbers, but those being the two bottlenecks.
    It basically makes the whole thing pants on head stupid right?

    The first yes, I think - it can vary depending on the encryption quality, but regardless.

    The latter, no. If a cryptocurrency was built where instead of halving the number of coins mined every so often they slowly increase the number in circulation, it would be inflationary. But then it wouldn't be a ponzi scheme where early adopters get a bunch of money :V

    JuliusFencingsaxEdith UpwardsGnome-InterruptusMvrckbowenGiggles_FunsworthKristmas KthulhuEl MuchoLoisLane
  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    something inherently deflationary is terrible for a currency.

    Even gold isn't as bad. Mining output ebbs and flows but actually gets better over time due to better tech and methods.

    Its the main reason gold is no longer a currency!

    Fencingsax
  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    So Bitcoin and its derivatives are essentially a consumer created form of currency independent of banks. Money, as a unit of trade, has no intrinsic value in it of itself other than what believe it holds. Bitcoin can be traded for other forms of currency, or goods and services by those who accept it. Because it's not tied to a bank or government, it's not subject to the same kinds of regulations. It is "mined" by solving complex math problems, usually via farming computer banks with high quality GPUs. In addtion, Bitcoin is difficult to crack because embedded in the currency itself is a ledger displaying whether or not it has been used. That's how I understand things as a moderate computer user.

    It's also made people millionaires overnight. If you had bought $300 worth of bitcoin when it was traded for $1 per coin, that would have been worth 6 million at the heigth of its value (approximately 20k).

    So to make a long story short, what implications does this have on the larger economy? Is Bitcoin and its ilk really the wave of the future or just a bubble?

    Its made people millionaires on paper

    is there any evidence of people cashing out to the tune of millions of actual dollars?

    Millions I don't know.

    I do know some folks who got into it before the first spike over $100 and have cashed out for a few thousand, so that's happened.

    I also have a friend who lost thousands of dollars when Mt. Gox went down and is eagerly awaiting the court case/bankruptcy resolution so he can get in on the inevitable civil case now that the valuation has spiked again. Best case he probably breaks even, though.

    e: But the real way any of them made money was buying video cards/ASICs, mining for a while, then reselling the used video cards for more than they were originally purchased for because the market is crazy like that (not a good time to build a computer, by the by).

    Jragghen on
    FeralGnome-InterruptusElldren
  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    it is very difficult to get real money out of bitcoin. all it's really used for is things like buying and selling drugs, pretty much a scam

    FencingsaxAresProphetEdith UpwardsZilla360L Ron HowardGennenalyse RuebenMegaMekkimeElldrenLoisLane
  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    It must be possible to sell Bitcoin to all those bigger fools out there desperate to get in on the crazy train, so you could get money out that way.

    My feeling is that it is exactly like any bubble: you could have made a lot of money on it if you invested early, but right now, everyone is just waiting for the pop. It might go back up before the end... but you cannot predict that.

    ShadowhopeElvenshae
  • GONG-00GONG-00 Registered User regular
    For those that are taking the risk, if you hear any faint noise about a quantum computer breakthrough, liquidate immediately.

    Future Employee of Planetary Acquisitions, Inc.
    pNRtexA.png
    JragghenEdith UpwardsLoisLane
  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist Registered User regular
    I first became aware of Bitcoin back in 2012 or so. The idea of people trading in this currency that required mining and had artificial scarcity sounded.. well.. ludicrous.

    To this day, my opinion of Bitcoin itself is summed up by one card from the Android: Netrunner card game, printed in 2013.

    04075.png

    Official member of the Grilling Gentry
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  • DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    I like these two games for understanding a lot of the problems of Bitcoin and cryptocurrency. Also they are fantastic games that go to wild places.

    http://www.beepboopbitcoin.com/

    Zilla360ElldrenDescendant Xemp123
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD along with you if I get drunk well I know I'm gonna be gonna be the man whoRegistered User regular
    Doodmann wrote: »
    Jragghen wrote: »
    For the larger economy? Basically nil aside from people who don't understand it speculating and driving up the value and then getting caught in the inevitable crash. I really, really recommend not reading threads of people who lost their life savings.

    Wave of the future? Not bitcoin itself, that's for sure. Bitcoin's cap is 7 transactions per second. Compare that to Visa's 24,000. Furthermore, the currency is inherently deflationary by its very nature, which means that you're actively encouraged to NOT use bitcoins as a currency, but rather hold onto them and have them appreciate. It's basically designed to create bubbles so people can try to get in and cash out.

    What's more concerning is how much power is being wasted on it.

    https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/12/bitcoins-insane-energy-consumption-explained/
    The skyrocketing value of Bitcoin is leading to soaring energy consumption. According to one widely cited website that tracks the subject, the Bitcoin network is consuming power at an annual rate of 32TWh—about as much as Denmark. By the site's calculations, each Bitcoin transaction consumes 250kWh, enough to power homes for nine days.

    Naturally, this is leading to concerns about sustainability. Eric Holthaus, a writer for Grist, projects that, at current growth rates, the Bitcoin network will "use as much electricity as the entire world does today" by early 2020. "This is an unsustainable trajectory," he writes.

    It's fucking stupid.

    Aren't these two things true for all crypto? Not the exact numbers, but those being the two bottlenecks.
    It basically makes the whole thing pants on head stupid right?

    No, neither of those things are necessarily true for all cryptocurrencies.

    All cryptocurrencies have a maximum realistic transaction rate, but what that specific rate is for the currency is a result of design decisions that went into that currency.

    Really, the transaction limit in Bitcoin is a political problem as much as it is a technological one. Imagine every silly nerd argument you've ever heard about the strengths and weakenesses of a programming language or an operating system: spaces vs tabs in programming, whitespace matters in Python vs whitespace-doesnt-matter like in Java, Mac vs Windows, whether to run adblockers or not... Literally every design change that could be made to the Bitcoin design to accelerate transactions is mired in a similar nerdy holy war.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
    shrykeElldrenJulius
  • thatassemblyguythatassemblyguy RESIST. Registered User regular
    Something to remember for people reading the thread: Fiat currency is backed by the full faith and power of a government (“nothing” physical). Bitcoin is backed by nothing - period. The bitcoin proponents are purposefully obfuscating the difference between “nothing” and Fiat.

    DoodmannFencingsaxShadowhopeGnome-InterruptusPhoenix-DMvrckbowenRchanenZilla360RiemannLivesArdolGiggles_FunsworthKetBraMillGennenalyse RuebenVegemyteTOGSolidMegaMekelectricitylikesmeKristmas KthulhuVerminionJoolanderHakkekageKamarGimDrake ChambersElldrenDescendant XElvenshaeShortyemp123LoisLane
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    I'd call our nuclear arsenal physical

    DoodmannAresProphetthatassemblyguyRchanenRedTideJulius
  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    I'd call our nuclear arsenal physical

    The terrifying silent submarines they are housed in certainly are.

    RchanenElvenshaeLoisLane
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    Something to remember for people reading the thread: Fiat currency is backed by the full faith and power of a government (“nothing” physical). Bitcoin is backed by nothing - period. The bitcoin proponents are purposefully obfuscating the difference between “nothing” and Fiat.

    The dollar isn't backed by gold anymore. So the only thing backing it is I guess that the US government will accept it for payments.

    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
    ShadowhopeElvenshae
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Something to remember for people reading the thread: Fiat currency is backed by the full faith and power of a government (“nothing” physical). Bitcoin is backed by nothing - period. The bitcoin proponents are purposefully obfuscating the difference between “nothing” and Fiat.

    The dollar isn't backed by gold anymore. So the only thing backing it is I guess that the US government will accept it for payments.

    and the millions of Americans who go to work everyday earn dollars and pay taxes in them. And our entire military and civil apparatus that makes that changing anytime soon highly unlikely.

    DoodmannFencingsaxthatassemblyguyAphostileQuidPreacherTynnanRchanenArdolKetBraMillGennenalyse RuebenVegemyteTOGSolidMegaMekKristmas KthulhuJoolanderKamarGimkimejimb213ElldrenLovelyElvenshaeGnizmoemp123LoisLane
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Ok so I may make a longer post later using some rudimentary monetary economics as an explainer.

    But the long and short of it will be that Bitcoin is a scam and can only be a scam. The equilibrium value of any deflationary currency can take only one of two values, infinity, and zero.

    What this means, roughly, is that we know it’s final resting point but it’s going to be a wild ride getting there.

    wbBv3fj.png
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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Everyone always gets excited about how much Bitcoin is worth in US dollars. You never get the headlines "Dollar plunges!" in comparison to Bitcoin when Bitcoin goes up. Shows you what the investors really have faith in.

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  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD along with you if I get drunk well I know I'm gonna be gonna be the man whoRegistered User regular
    something inherently deflationary is terrible for a currency.

    Even gold isn't as bad. Mining output ebbs and flows but actually gets better over time due to better tech and methods.

    Yep. But a lot of the political impetus behind Bitcoin is motivated by an irrational fear of inflation.

    A little bit of inflation is a good thing. There is literally no serious economist who believes that positive inflation is intrinsically bad. But Bitcoin culture is full of people convinced that fiat currency is speeding towards some kind of Weimaresque hyperinflation singularity.

    I think my #1 wish for threads like these is that we'd get better at separating the technologies of cryptocurrency and blockchain from the cultural baggage. Obviously those aren't entirely separable, but plenty of technologies have been invented and popularized by people who were douchebags. (Thomas Edison?)

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
    DoodmannShadowhopeGnome-InterruptussyndalisPhoenix-DRiemannLivesMegaMekElldrenJuliusLoisLane
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    Everyone always gets excited about how much Bitcoin is worth in US dollars. You never get the headlines "Dollar plunges!" in comparison to Bitcoin when Bitcoin goes up. Shows you what the investors really have faith in.

    Gold still serves that purpose honestly. When faith in currencies plunge gold future go up as people hedge their bets.

    thatassemblyguyShadowhopeQuidRchanenElldrenLoisLane
  • Edith UpwardsEdith Upwards Registered User regular
    There was this Japanese red diaper baby and computer criminal named Satoshi. The NSA blackmailed him into working for them until they wanted him to inform on members of the JCP in Taiwan. He killed himself. One of his projects, Bitcoin, became a massive ponzi scheme where services like Magic: the Gathering Online Exchange repeatedly steal everyone's fake computer money with no consequences.

    The kicker is that not only does mining Bitcoins do some unspecified computing task for the NSA, but every Bitcoin is traceable because there's a central record of every transaction that occurs using Bitcoin. This is how they actually got Silk Road. There have also been multiple reversions of Bitcoin which have taken people's fake computer money.

    If you are stupid and immoral enough to be involved in the criminal enterprise known as BitCoin, be safe. Don't get stabbed over fake computer money by some fedora who posts in r/physicalremoval.

  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD along with you if I get drunk well I know I'm gonna be gonna be the man whoRegistered User regular
    There was this Japanese red diaper baby and computer criminal named Satoshi. The NSA blackmailed him into working for them until they wanted him to inform on members of the JCP in Taiwan. He killed himself. One of his projects, Bitcoin, became a massive ponzi scheme where services like Magic: the Gathering Online Exchange repeatedly steal everyone's fake computer money with no consequences.

    The kicker is that not only does mining Bitcoins do some unspecified computing task for the NSA, but every Bitcoin is traceable because there's a central record of every transaction that occurs using Bitcoin. This is how they actually got Silk Road. There have also been multiple reversions of Bitcoin which have taken people's fake computer money.

    If you are stupid and immoral enough to be involved in the criminal enterprise known as BitCoin, be safe. Don't get stabbed over fake computer money by some fedora who posts in r/physicalremoval.

    This sort of post is not constructive.

    1) nobody knows who Satoshi is or was. There is a lot of reasonable speculation but it's still just that: speculation.
    2) "Bitcoin mining helps the NSA" is a conspiracy theory.
    3) the silk road was brought down by old-fashioned police work. Auditing the blockchain had nothing to do with it. Unless you're claiming that the official story was just a parallel construction, which while plausible, would also be a conspiracy theory.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
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  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    As a complete layman to cryptocurrency, what makes the Bitcoin fad feel so foolish to me is that practically no one who is casually buying/mining this truly intends to spend it on anything. Only the most optimistic futurists have serious plans to pay their rent in bitcoins some day - everybody else just plans to ride the value up to some theoretical peak, and cash out in USD to spend it. What this says to me is that they all know deep down that this currency has no inherent value. If you can't spend it on anything it's not a currency at all, and it certainly isn't worth anything, the valuation is just a form of mass hysteria. They simply haven't put two and two together yet.

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  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Everyone believes in a greater fool. And this it can perpetuate even while everyone knows it’s a scam.

    Certainly if you believed in a greater fool at the outset you could have made a load of money.

    wbBv3fj.png
    shrykeMatev
  • CantelopeCantelope Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    Cryptocurrencies have two types of utility. The first is low transaction cost when compared to conventional electronic payments. The second is that the relative anonymity allows people who want to hide transactions from government entities to be able to do that, maybe.

    I'm skeptical of the value of crypto but particularly bitcoin. Transaction costs are no longer low, and some exchanges will provide regulators information about transactions.


    Also, in many cases we don't know who created the cryptocurrency. Advocates will tell you that you can read the source code and be sure that nothing fishy is going on, but most of us don't have the ability, and who knows what could be hidden in there.


    Aside of that there are development teams that make changes. I don't think anyone really knows what they can change, but we do know they can make significant changes to the cryptocurrency. Sure bitcoin might go to 10k or 100k tomorrow, but there is no reason inherently that it will continue to retain value.

    Cantelope on
  • JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Something to remember for people reading the thread: Fiat currency is backed by the full faith and power of a government (“nothing” physical). Bitcoin is backed by nothing - period. The bitcoin proponents are purposefully obfuscating the difference between “nothing” and Fiat.

    The dollar isn't backed by gold anymore. So the only thing backing it is I guess that the US government will accept it for payments.

    The dollar is backed by the stability of the economy of the United States. The stability of the economy is backed by the full faith and credit of the US Government, the productive capital, domestic and foreign, owned by its citizens, a military that secures the ownership of that capital, and the productive labor of its citizens.

    You can sell an apple for 1$ today and buy an apple for 1$ tomorrow. You can pay a gardener 20$/hr to take care of your lawn today, and the same price tomorrow.

    If you don't want to buy an apple or gardener today, you can buy a US treasury bond. If apples and gardening labor go up in price with inflation in ten years, your treasury bond will probably track close to inflation and you will be able to buy the same amount of apples and gardeners as you could ten years ago.

    Who knows what a bitcoin will be worth relative to anything in ten years. It could be worth one apple, it could be worth the entire global economy.

    Jephery on
    }
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  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    There was this Japanese red diaper baby and computer criminal named Satoshi. The NSA blackmailed him into working for them until they wanted him to inform on members of the JCP in Taiwan. He killed himself. One of his projects, Bitcoin, became a massive ponzi scheme where services like Magic: the Gathering Online Exchange repeatedly steal everyone's fake computer money with no consequences.

    The kicker is that not only does mining Bitcoins do some unspecified computing task for the NSA, but every Bitcoin is traceable because there's a central record of every transaction that occurs using Bitcoin. This is how they actually got Silk Road. There have also been multiple reversions of Bitcoin which have taken people's fake computer money.

    If you are stupid and immoral enough to be involved in the criminal enterprise known as BitCoin, be safe. Don't get stabbed over fake computer money by some fedora who posts in r/physicalremoval.

    I’d like some citations that don’t involve three hour YouTube videos or unverified conspiracy blogs for the first two paragraphs.

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  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD along with you if I get drunk well I know I'm gonna be gonna be the man whoRegistered User regular
    Some unknown but significant amount of the demand is buoyed by people who want to use Bitcoin to pay for illegal transactions. In the West, that's mostly drugs. In some countries that includes subscriptions to VPN services, proxy services, and web hosting in order to circumvent local censorship.

    I think that's a large (if not the main) reason BTC bounces back from its crashes. There's an effective "floor" - even if speculation were to completely cease, there would still be some low but non-zero demand for cryptocurrency. If not Bitcoin, then some other cryptocurrency.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Feral wrote: »
    I think that's a large (if not the main) reason BTC bounces back from its crashes. There's an effective "floor" - even if speculation were to completely cease, there would still be some low but non-zero demand for cryptocurrency. If not Bitcoin, then some other cryptocurrency.

    I think the bounce-back is mostly people assuming that since Bitcoin is constantly bouncing up and down, a downward bounce is a good time to get on.

    The criminals/dissidents using cryptocurrency as an actual currency aren't enough to keep it sky-high. In fact, they'd probably prefer it stable. If you sell $10,000 worth of heroin in bitcoin and bitcoin instantly slumps, your drug gang is out on the deal.

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  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    Zek wrote: »
    As a complete layman to cryptocurrency, what makes the Bitcoin fad feel so foolish to me is that practically no one who is casually buying/mining this truly intends to spend it on anything. Only the most optimistic futurists have serious plans to pay their rent in bitcoins some day - everybody else just plans to ride the value up to some theoretical peak, and cash out in USD to spend it. What this says to me is that they all know deep down that this currency has no inherent value. If you can't spend it on anything it's not a currency at all, and it certainly isn't worth anything, the valuation is just a form of mass hysteria. They simply haven't put two and two together yet.

    The speculation fad is exactly why it has very little spending utility. If you had a dollar and thought in a month it would be worth 10 dollars would you be inclined to spend it?

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  • DiannaoChongDiannaoChong Registered User regular
    We had a previous thread over the last couple of years on crypto currency. The OP is rather... optimistic about how it would go this time. The opinion that its a pump and dump scam pretty much still holds.

    However I'd say were closer than ever to a corporate entity trying to make their own version that isnt decentralized and the government going "lol you fucking what?"

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  • BogartBogart Because I hate you Registered User, Moderator mod
    This is not the place for unsubstantiated conspiracy theories, so knock that on the head right this second.

    Elvenshae
  • JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    Dark net markets have been switching to crypto currencies with faster transaction times and lower fees than bitcoin. Easier to go in and out of the unstable crypto currency market that way.

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    "Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
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