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[Slay the Spire] THIS THREAD IS DEAD! POST IN THE NEW ONE!

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    And to make up for that spiel, here's an A20 defect win.
    3982496D0899AF1777854719383D31A0B31CC847

    This deck needed any way to generate orb slots and would have been absurd. As it was, it was pretty absurd anyway, with Awoken one being killed off by a 120+ damage blizzard. Recycle + Snecko Eye remains a great engine, and was particularly good here as the deck was easily able to prune itself down to just cycling Glacier/Blizzard/Cold Snap eventually.

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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    cooljammer00cooljammer00 Hey Small Christmas-Man!Registered User regular
    Anyone who is interested, Slay the Spire comes out of Early Access in like two weeks, and also the price will be going up to reflect that. So get in now if you're interested.

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    Battle.Net: JohnDarc#1203 Origin/UPlay: CoolJammer00
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    AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    So, would anyone be interested in me posting some thoughts on a hypothetical character and giving feedback on refining that some? I'd like to figure out modding a character in (...assuming i actually get to it), but hey, game design practice is game design practice. )

    Well, i'm going to take all the awesomes on this post as a yes then!

    So, here we go. Super rough, this is more about outlining concepts and figuring out how they could click together to build a whole. Aim here is outlining rough archtypes - like you could sum up the Silent as "Poision, Shivs, Discard, Hand Manipulation, Multi-attacks" or Ironclad as "Heavy Hits, self-inflicted statuses, Exhaust syngeries, self-harm, strength-scaling"

    The Priestess

    Conceptually, she's aimed at being a martial arts monk meets cleric. Debuff manipulation, graveyard shenanigans, prayers and a new resource. More details below the spoiler block
    I'd be aiming her to end up somewhere in the Ironclad/Silent sphere of things, i guess? Those are my favourites to play, so ideally i'm going to make something that reminds me of these

    Her major card themes would be:

    Essence - a new buff/debuff. When it's put on foes, it acts like a debuff - each stack of Essence adds 1 damage to an attack against that foe. Pseudo-strength, in other-words. Slight poison hybrid in that it would fall off by 1 each turn, just like Poison. When she has it, it adds one block per stack at the end of her turn (and again, falls off like poison). Open to alternate ideas here, but i like this as it seems balancable, while providing interesitng gameplay tension

    Graveyard Use: limited-to-no card draw - think worse than ironclad coupled with strong graveyard manipulation ("Resurrecting" things - i.e exhaust them form the graveyard for extra effects, put them back into your hand like hologram, or ontop of your deck like headbutt). Potentially as a sub theme, payoffs for exhausting statuses out from your graveyard? Suspect what card draw she does have would work like Deep breath - shuffling your discard pile back in, and then drawing cards as it's cost (already a heavy penalty most of the time, and probably worse for her with the right balance)

    Debuff manipulation - Heavy emphasis on throwing debuffs out, attacks that do more if foes have specific debuffs on them, cards that put debuffs on her in return for debuffs on others (For instance, a card that generates block and shackles the foe, but also shackles her for the turn), ways to move debuffs from her to opponents, or from foes to her, or from foe to foe. Hypothetical Form card: Plague Form (Power, 3). At the start of your turn, Inflict 1 Vulnerable & 1 (2) Essence to each foe. More access to Artifact than other classes too, to let her break "Fair" effects. I wonder if the game supports giving enemies dex down, and if so, what does that do? Probably niche, but that could be interesting in some cases.

    Prayers: Cards that either do nothing this turn, but pay-off with a powerful effect at the next turn (or a couple of turns), or give you a powerful effect now in return for a nasty cost the next turn (Think get one intangible this turn, then next turn become vulnerable, weakened & shackled). I'd like to figure out tying in prayers with her graveyard manipulation too - think in the vein of Sentinel. Does one thing normally, and another thing if you pull it out of the graveyard with another card.

    Limited amount of powers - Her scaling would come through manipulating essence and debuffs, not from stacking up powers. Thus i'd aim her to have the least powers of any character. This would also be aimed at helping her feel like she's constantly acting - i.e a skill that generates essence for her, rather than powers that passively generate. To compensate, she'd probably have a higher than usual amount of 0-cost cards, or cards that can somehow cheat cost/generate energy, or chain together. So skills/attacks that have breakpoints when she has a certain amount of essence, or foes have a certain amount of debuffs, etcera - imagine an attack that does say, 9 damage for 1 energy, but draws you a card and gives you an energy if you have 10 or more essence - or does triple damage if the foe has more than X debuffs, etcera.

    So that's the outline. Thoughts, comments? No i have to figure out a: designing the card pool, and b: how the beep do you get this stuff in game (So quite honestly, this may go nowhere, but it's fun to think about if nothing else. I have zilch programming experience)

    The Artifact mechanic is going to be problematic-to-you-should-just-steal-it impactful if you're coming from that angle.

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Auralynx wrote: »
    The Artifact mechanic is going to be problematic-to-you-should-just-steal-it impactful if you're coming from that angle.

    As in foes having artifacts, or you having artifacts? I'm not sure i understand, but in case i'm on the right track:

    I don't actually see either as being an issue though - it's just something you have to consider and build around, just like you have to consider how to deal with it when your output is based around poison or similar. If anything i'd worry about it being too easy to obviate if this character is throwing around a crazy amount of debuffs.

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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    AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    edited January 2019
    Auralynx wrote: »
    The Artifact mechanic is going to be problematic-to-you-should-just-steal-it impactful if you're coming from that angle.

    As in foes having artifacts, or you having artifacts? I'm not sure i understand, but in case i'm on the right track:

    I don't actually see either as being an issue though - it's just something you have to consider and build around, just like you have to consider how to deal with it when your output is based around poison or similar. If anything i'd worry about it being too easy to obviate if this character is throwing around a crazy amount of debuffs.

    Both, actually! You'd want to apply the buff-negaters as debuffs, the way they are with Flex and potions and such. Artifacts aren't exactly common, but my guess is that some enemies with several inherent ones will be super-inconvenient at best, while having them [or not] will affect the class considerably as well, to the point where you might consider co-opting self-Artifacts as part of your mechanics.

    Auralynx on
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    Marty81Marty81 Registered User regular
    Beat yesterday's daily climb (it was pretty easy, starting with drafting your deck instead of being stuck with strikes and defends), which unlocked an achievement and not much else. I only scored around 750 and the people at the top of the leaderboard had like 1750. What are they doing to get such high scores?

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    BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    I know it's supposed to only upload your first run, but I'm guessing there's an easy way around that.

    Every run in a daily climb is identical down to enemy behaviour and cards drawn, etc. So you could probably plan a high score run pretty easily.

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    BSoBBSoB Registered User regular
    High scores come from hitting every elite, getting perfect fights against bosses and going quickly. Those are the main ones.

    There are other odd ways to pick up score. getting 4+ copies of a card (scored for each card), having a ton of money, max HP, and a bunch of others.

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Auralynx wrote: »
    Auralynx wrote: »
    The Artifact mechanic is going to be problematic-to-you-should-just-steal-it impactful if you're coming from that angle.

    As in foes having artifacts, or you having artifacts? I'm not sure i understand, but in case i'm on the right track:

    I don't actually see either as being an issue though - it's just something you have to consider and build around, just like you have to consider how to deal with it when your output is based around poison or similar. If anything i'd worry about it being too easy to obviate if this character is throwing around a crazy amount of debuffs.

    Both, actually! You'd want to apply the buff-negaters as debuffs, the way they are with Flex and potions and such. Artifacts aren't exactly common, but my guess is that some enemies with several inherent ones will be super-inconvenient at best, while having them [or not] will affect the class considerably as well, to the point where you might consider co-opting self-Artifacts as part of your mechanics.

    My plan is definitely that this class should have more access to Artifact than any other, as a point of distinction - partly to help break "Fair" effects, partly as a way to help out it's defences (Since it's likely that you're only getitng dex through artifacts)

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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    TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    I had a great body slam build going with yesterday's daily run, then i completely biffed it in act 2 and i felt like a dummy.

    I basically only play daily runs anymore actually. I've given up on challenging the heart, or climbing any higher in ascension.

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    ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    edited January 2019
    Slow and steady ...
    1746lnbwmg24.png
    This deck was probably bad. Up until just before the end of Act 2, the only attacks I had acquired were Masterful Stabs, which was ... I mean, it worked, but ... :P
    Then I really gambled on Act 2 completion - I was presented Corpse Explosion and Tools of The Trade, which seemed like a good way to help make the deck even more consistent at what it wanted to do, but traded the mob-clear I thought I lacked along with another card to accelerate poison. I took the Corpse Explosion because I crutch on it as Silent. shrug But then the artifact choices were lackluster. Philosopher's Stone was probably not a bad choice given how the deck was all about blocking anyway, and Astrolabe could have done it's shenanigans. But I went with Cursed Bell because I had the Dark Pendent. Orichalcum was literally useless in a deck with upgraded After Image, Scroll was bad with the choker I had, and the Doll was like, "Hmmmm ... I guess that's something." Throughout Act 3 I probably made the deck worse because I wasn't presented much more opportunity to grab block, but my saving grace was getting the polygons after choosing Corpse Explosion.

    I'm definitely bad at this game. But I love it anyway~ ^_^

    ArcticLancer on
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    Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    I just came within inches of an Ironclad exhaust build win vs the Heart, argh

    Had Corruption+, Feel No Pain+, Dark Embrace, and Charon's Ashes. Also had a lot of exhaust cards like True Grit and Sever Soul. Flame Barrier + thorn potion meant that the big multi-attacks were doing 100+ damage to the Heart. But I screwed up and went for Corruption too late and couldn't muster the block for a big attack turn. :(

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    TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    The knight boss wiping all stacks of poison when he does his big buff is some hot bullshit.

    bnet: TheStig#1787 Steam: TheStig
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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    TheStig wrote: »
    The knight boss wiping all stacks of poison when he does his big buff is some hot bullshit.

    Every boss with a "Split" mechanic (Slime Boss, The Champ and Time Eater) cleanses or otherwise looses their debuffs when they do the split. In Champ's case, he still takes damage from Poison before he cleanses - So with Catalyst or another deck that has a fire-hose for it's poison output, you can outright murder him - Lower his hp to a bit above his threshold (50%) to split, then jam your catalysts/burst. It'll tick once to knock him below the splitting threshold, and then another time on the splitting turn - Which if you hold a catalyst and cast it when he's got say, 30 poison? sweet 180 damage for 1 energy right there.

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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    ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    TheStig wrote: »
    The knight boss wiping all stacks of poison when he does his big buff is some hot bullshit.
    I lost an otherwise decent run two days ago because I forgot he did that, and suffered exactly the same misfortune you did. sympathies

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    Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    Poison is super strong. If anything, I could see more enemies having ways to mitigate it

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    kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Poison is how I win 90% of the Silent runs I win.

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    Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    Poison is how I win 90% of the Silent runs I win.

    Noxious Fumes are a little too noxious

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    TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    Sup

    0sUYR4H.jpg

    bnet: TheStig#1787 Steam: TheStig
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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    I see you went full Palpantine on him. UNLIMITED POWER!

    Need a voice actor? Hire me at bengrayVO.com
    Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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    TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    edited January 2019
    And the heart is down. That deck was ridiculous

    SRT0bcg.jpg

    At one point I didn't realize I triggered the 300 damage/turn limit, which actually occurred on the heart's turn, because it was taking 14 damage for each of its 12 hits, which did 1 damage thanks to the torii. I played my thunder storm anyway for 0, which would have done 464 damage.

    Also I had like 10+ power cards, machine learning with innate, and that relic that heals for 2 whenever you play a power card. Some times I'd just play all my power cards to heal, even though they didn't help otherwise.

    TheStig on
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    NogginNoggin Registered User regular
    Creative AI and that relic saved my current run. It's so good!

    But now that I've said that in the thread, I'm doomed...

    Battletag: Noggin#1936
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    WassermeloneWassermelone Registered User regular
    I've been playing this again quite a bit. I'm probably best with Defect, or at least most reliable. Not up to the crazy ascension levels you guys are at, but I'm at what I think is a quite respectable 6 on Defect.

    Except I have a problem.

    I can never ever ever remember I have Echo Form on and almost always 'waste' it

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    JookieJookie Registered User regular
    I've done several runs where I take Creative AI early and then ultimately fail because I draw it late or I get an elite I'm not fully prepared for (book of stabbing zero block two straight turns gg) and I tell myself to not take the damn card anymore. And then oh look Creative AI guess I'll take it I love that card.

    I need to make myself not take it without having Mummified Hand. I can't make it work otherwise.

    butts
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    BSoBBSoB Registered User regular
    1 upgraded creative AI can give you scaling in a deck that doesn't have it. The major problem is that defect has so many powers that aren't worth it, and a few powers that are only worth it upgraded.

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    Duke 2.0Duke 2.0 Time Trash Cat Registered User regular
    Trying the Marisa mod. The class relic gimmick is incredibly busted strong balanced by some questionable synergies in the card archetypes. Lots of cards that give you Burn, but relatively limited exhaust. Lots of dumping random cards into your hand/deck clogging it up(which is less a solution to the Burns and more replacing their problem with another). A 2 cost 12 block no real other upsides. Lots of attacks with weird gimmicks like a 2 cost deal 4 times your energy in damage.

    But you can all in on block every turn until you have a charge stack of 32 and your next attack deals ^4 damage, so pretty strong.

    VRXwDW7.png
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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    BSoB wrote: »
    1 upgraded creative AI can give you scaling in a deck that doesn't have it. The major problem is that defect has so many powers that aren't worth it, and a few powers that are only worth it upgraded.

    Yeah. Creative AI gives you scaling in a deck that dosent otherwise have it, the problem is that it's Very Slow Scaling (and, it's heavy RNG scaling.), without say the benefit of "I fated out a ton of frost orbs" that blizzard's scaling gives you (Being a similarly slow scalng approach). Both can win you fights, but you have to have an answer of how you get TO the critical mass where they win you fights.

    That said, Creative AI + Mummified hand is one way to do this. Heatsinks is another, as is Recycle (Kill creative AI when you dont need the scaling, eat the cards it vomits when you need the energy)

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    Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    I've been playing this again quite a bit. I'm probably best with Defect, or at least most reliable. Not up to the crazy ascension levels you guys are at, but I'm at what I think is a quite respectable 6 on Defect.

    Except I have a problem.

    I can never ever ever remember I have Echo Form on and almost always 'waste' it

    This happens to me all the time. I'd almost like to see some better graphical representation of powers you have active, aside from the individual icons that are easy to look over

    Echo Form is one of the strongest cards in the game so it feels just awful when you waste it on a junk card

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    JookieJookie Registered User regular
    BSoB wrote: »
    1 upgraded creative AI can give you scaling in a deck that doesn't have it. The major problem is that defect has so many powers that aren't worth it, and a few powers that are only worth it upgraded.
    Because of Creative AI I managed to RNG into four copies of Loop to pair up with my upgraded Loop already in play.

    I forget how much block I started off with each turn but it was over fifty just to start.

    butts
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    NogginNoggin Registered User regular
    Noggin wrote: »
    Creative AI and that relic saved my current run. It's so good!

    But now that I've said that in the thread, I'm doomed...

    Nvm, I found torii and mummified hand shortly after resuming...

    thatwasez.gif

    Battletag: Noggin#1936
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    JookieJookie Registered User regular
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    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    OH MY GOD THE WHALE

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    JookieJookie Registered User regular
    edited January 2019
    HOLY SHIT THEY TRACK THE MOUSE

    edit - 71C3017552285E6779321AB77C4C14A6AD372D8F
    STARE INTO THE FACES OF DEATH.

    Jookie on
    butts
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    ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    This is the greatest mod in the history of all modding.

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    JookieJookie Registered User regular
    Hey you kids wanna try some drugs?
    E12E6F0D9E279F101EC409D744154C856150D770

    butts
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    JookieJookie Registered User regular
    I want to point out that this mod granted me the strength to finally pick up a Defect win on my thirty third attempt.

    butts
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    WassermeloneWassermelone Registered User regular
    I just lived the dream

    Timekeeper
    No defense in hand
    Two cards till Timekeeper triggers
    Not enough frost orbs
    I have 1 health left

    And yet

    Echo form
    5 energy
    Chemical X
    Multicast
    One dark orb that had been percolating since turn one

    Good byyyyye Timekeeper

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    JookieJookie Registered User regular
    edited January 2019
    486F8D75CDA84185184D799A3ADC930C9A899900
    Started off by missing Artifact relic in shop due to being poor after already having Biased Cognition and then soon after missing the only Core Surge offered which wound up being disheartening. Doubled down on Biased Cognition and was hoping to basically just end every fight before my orbs became useless.

    Decided that tripling down would be worthwhile since I had three extra orb slots to work with and figured I could hold off on playing powers until I had a shitload of orbs out.

    Floor forty I get offered a Panacea and upgrade that soon after. Five floors after the first offer I get another one out of the trade health for colorless card event and I now have a way to play all of my Biased Cogs for free, just a matter of drawing into them and lol Heat Sinks.

    Two of the three fights before I didn't draw the artifacts and was a little shaky and then for the boss I was able to pick up all three and double energy through to Biased Cogs off the back of Heatsinks. At that point I could have just casually passed every turn until Shapes died.

    After that massive slog to get through A18 on Defect I lucked into this run for back to back robat wins.

    Jookie on
    butts
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    TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    P3BEu7Q.jpg

    IjgSDLT.jpg

    imZMpGX.jpg

    The aspirations with Burst really made this deck. Also I removed as many cards as I could and was super picky with picking up new cards. My relic swap at the beginning was the "replace and upgrade 3 cards" one.

    bnet: TheStig#1787 Steam: TheStig
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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    edited January 2019
    @Jookie That's horrifying and it's scoured into my eyes. I BLAME YOU.

    Another day, another 4 A20 wins.

    I think these all could have been Heart wins if i'd bothered to, but fuck that.

    The first one was a weird run - Objectively it had everything it needed to be really powerful, but kept missing that one or two things that would have pushed it over the edge, so it just staggered around drunkenly instead, and then beat down Donu & Deca + Awoken one, having taken a grand total of 21 damage in 28 turns. I think if it'd found an energy relic, or a freaking Snecko Eye from the first boss, it would have been unstopabble.

    Corpse Explosion is another thing that would have really pushed it over the edge - Great vs elites and boss fights, terrible in AoE situations.

    Clutch freaking Lee's Waffle though. (Do note that if i'd been going for the A4, i'd have taken a different option from mind bloom. Unable to heal at all is just too big a penalty)
    68E3D473345571DC2EB7632671445DF40405074B

    Then i got this run which was ahahaha, wow. When you kill 4 elites on the first floor, avoiding campfires to do it, you're off to a great start. (Only one of those was off Neow's lament). Good example of a run that actually changed it's focus - one of my first pickups was Perfected Strike. Then i got a Pen Nib, Double Tap, Varja and Twin Strike, so it started moving towards let's abuse strenght/double tap/pen nib. Demon Form and Coffe Dripper off the boss helped cement that identity pretty strongly, Augmenter turned two strikes into Shockwave and Reaper... and then it got Dead Branch.

    Then it found mummified hand & gambling chip so it could really start doing great setup shennagins, and then it managed to locate corruption early in act 3. Welp.exe
    E6813173A9845FF7834DBDF558D0F9F61E8AD683

    Then a silent-pyramid run - This one was interesting. It ended up having two avenues to blow things down - Double Catalyst with Burst, or Burst+ CD -> Finisher. I think i overcrowded it on draw/card sorting, to be honest - One less preparation, another back-flip would have been better. Worth noting a lot of it's power came from a super early Toxic Egg, hence it's mass of upgrades. Still, good fun. At one point it killed the double Nobs after giving one of them 40+ strength. Good times, good 0 damage in 4 turns times.
    498697F3DCF8504C693FA1CEBA2E481590EF9D59

    Finally, this beauty of a deck - Sunder let it make it through most of act 1 and a couple of elites holding a huge pile of gold, and then i hit a shop that let me buy Chemical X AND Multi Cast. Then i upgraded Multi-cast. Turns up triple-evoking orbs for free is crazy strong, who would have thought? Act 2 power came from having picked up Echo Form (Echo'd Chem X Multis are real good) with a Plasma Battery from the A1 boss. Then a pocket watch. Act 2 boss spat out a Thunderstrike and Snecko Eye, and at this point the deck was happily into crazy land. (Drawing between 7-10 cards a turn for free is nuts). I think it ended up with something like 14 focus vs awoken one? Let me just play all my powers and laugh at your weak, weak scaling awoken one.

    I actually skipped taking Creative AI even though i had mummified hand - It probably would have worked fine, but the deck was doing great things without the need to shove powers constantly. Either way it perfected both Awoken One and Time Eater breezily. Would have been nice not to have to skip Tempest, but Reinforced Body was a more important pick at that time. Also would have been nice to find a Blizzard, but honestly, both of those just would have been win mores.
    0FB508CE4D8B854E84AF291F32B9D098FF0EC1BF

    (Seriously, if you're playing defect or silent and you can get Chemical X... BUY CHEMICAL X. Especially on defect)

    The Zombie Penguin on
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