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[Michael Cohen thread] SDNY cases against Cohen, Stormy Daniels case, bribes through Cohen

matt has a problemmatt has a problem Points to 'off'Points to 'on'Registered User regular
edited May 2018 in Debate and/or Discourse
So, today, the FBI raided the office of Michael Cohen.

And his New York residence. And his temporary residence at the Lowes Regency Hotel.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/04/09/politics/michael-cohen-fbi/index.html



Erica Orden is a reporter for the WSJ

Ostensibly to gather documentation on the Stormy Daniels scandal, but likely searching for more.
A person briefed on the search told the Times that the FBI also seized emails, tax documents and business records, including communications between Trump and Cohen.

This is huge for several reasons, not the least that this was a no-knock raid of an attorney for a sitting US President, that included seizing communications between an attorney and his clients. That a judge signed off on this warrant means there had to have been a near-incontrovertible amount of evidence showing this raid would produce evidence of a crime or crimes. This came about from information Robert Mueller brought to acting Attorney General Rosenstein, and Rosenstein authorized the FBI to take action. The US Attorney for the Southern District of New York executed the search warrants.

The President has responded, in the expected fashion.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/after-fbi-raids-cohens-office-trump-calls-probe-an-attack-on-our-country
“So I just heard that they broke into the office of one of my personal attorneys, a good man, and it’s a disgraceful situation,” Trump told reporters at the start of a meeting with military brass and national security advisers. In fact, Cohen’s own lawyer acknowledged in a statement that the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York had “executed a series of search warrants,” which would have to be approved by a federal judge.

“It’s a total witch hunt,” he continued. “I’ve been saying it for a long time. I’ve wanted to keep it down. We’ve given, I believe, over a million pages worth of documents to the special counsel. They continue to just go forward.”

“I have this witch hunt constantly going on for over 12 months now,” Trump said, adding: “It’s an attack on our country, in a true sense. It’s an attack on what we all stand for.”

Trump called Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s office “the most conflicted group of people I have ever seen” and complained, as he often has, about Attorney General Jeff Sessions recusing himself from Russia- and campaign-related matters.

“He should have certainly let us know if he was going to recuse himself and we would have put a different attorney general in,” Trump said of Sessions. “So he made what I consider to be a very terrible mistake for the country.”

Trump complained that no one “is looking at the other side,” a reference to Hillary Clinton’s use of a private email server.

After concluding his comments, Trump listened to reporters’ shouted questions and repeated one: “Why don’t I just fire Mueller?” he wondered aloud.

“Well, I think it’s a disgrace what’s going on. We’ll see what happens. But I think it’s really a sad situation when you look at what happened.”

“And many people have said you should fire him,” he continued. “Again they found nothing and in finding nothing that’s a big statement. If you know the person who’s in charge of the investigation, you know all about that. Deputy Rosenstein, Rod Rosenstein, he wrote the letter very critical of Comey.”

Now quit trying to get infracted in the Mueller thread!

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So It Goes on
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Posts

  • Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
    SO is this related to the Stormy Daniels payoff?

    PSN: Canadian_llama
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    I freaking adore this thread title.

    I love how Trump is associating this as a part of the Mueller investigation. Or, maybe, we now know the actual intent behind him calling "this" a "witch hunt." He's actually mad that he and his are being investigated for anything at all. He sees it as a conspiracy to go after 'them.' What a deranged loon.

    BUT the man of the hour is Cohen and bank fraud would be a hell of a thing to be nailed for. His disbarment, at the very least, is coming up.

    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Disco11 wrote: »
    SO is this related to the Stormy Daniels payoff?

    Only in that is probably part of the info seized. Judges do not sign off on search warrants targeting defense attorneys lightly. That goes treble when said attorney is tied to the President of the United States. This happening is massive.

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  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    I love that trump says they “broke in” as if they didn’t kick the door down with a warrant in hand.

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  • JuggernutJuggernut South CurrrrlinaRegistered User regular
    edited April 2018
    Disco11 wrote: »
    SO is this related to the Stormy Daniels payoff?

    Could be. The scenario seems to be Meuller came across evidence of wrong doing wrt to Cohen that fell outside of his jusridiction as Special Counsel so he passed the info along to the proper authorties, who, upon examining said info, found it to be worth a full blown warrant for a 3 location raid.

    The Daniels pay off probably factors in but it sounds like there's a lot more going on there.

    Juggernut on
  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    So let's say in the process of sorting through Cohen's records they come across stuff relevant to other investigations (like Mueller's). Can they then share that information or does it stay compartmentalized?

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  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor Registered User regular
    edited April 2018
    Disco11 wrote: »
    SO is this related to the Stormy Daniels payoff?

    Only in that is probably part of the info seized. Judges do not sign off on search warrants targeting defense attorneys lightly. That goes treble when said attorney is tied to the President of the United States. This happening is massive.

    They said they took tax documents and records that included to the payoff, so the payoff is probably only related as a piece of a larger financial puzzle.

    Many people have described Cohen as Trump's fixer. There's no telling what kind of bribery, spurious settlements, or legally grey obfuscation thereof, that he has gotten in to over the years; or for whom.

    ArbitraryDescriptor on
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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Who?

    Ok now that that’s out of my system...

    Cohen is the paperwork guy for all of Trump’s real estate stuff, in addition to representing him for some other personal matters, right?

    So does this lead to an arrest of Cohen, or was Cohen just the vector to get the evidence for others...

  • JuggernutJuggernut South CurrrrlinaRegistered User regular
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    So let's say in the process of sorting through Cohen's records they come across stuff relevant to other investigations (like Mueller's). Can they then share that information or does it stay compartmentalized?

    Considering Meuller was free to share info with them I'd imagine if they found something they felt was relevant to the investigation they could send it back on over to Meuller.

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Who?

    Ok now that that’s out of my system...

    Cohen is the paperwork guy for all of Trump’s real estate stuff, in addition to representing him for some other personal matters, right?

    So does this lead to an arrest of Cohen, or was Cohen just the vector to get the evidence for others...

    He's more Trump's mob enforcer of a lawyer.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
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  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    Who?

    Ok now that that’s out of my system...

    Cohen is the paperwork guy for all of Trump’s real estate stuff, in addition to representing him for some other personal matters, right?

    So does this lead to an arrest of Cohen, or was Cohen just the vector to get the evidence for others...
    What do you mean get the evidence for others?

    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    I’m assuming the documents implicate many people, not just Cohen.

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  • Mr KhanMr Khan Not Everyone WAHHHRegistered User regular
    Popehat has a good writeup on this. When their website stops being crashed because of all the people reading their writeup on this.

    https://www.popehat.com/2018/04/09/the-search-of-trump-lawyer-michael-cohens-office-what-we-can-infer-immediately/

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  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    And Michael Cohens page at gop.com about him being the finance chair of the party is already missing.

    Artereis wrote: »
    It's not your fault, Viskod. 1 out of every 10 people just happens to be a monster.
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  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Who?

    Ok now that that’s out of my system...

    Cohen is the paperwork guy for all of Trump’s real estate stuff, in addition to representing him for some other personal matters, right?

    So does this lead to an arrest of Cohen, or was Cohen just the vector to get the evidence for others...
    What do you mean get the evidence for others?

    Mueller, NY district attorney, etc... Trump has real estate ventures in multiple states, they might all have claims, depending on what gets found. This raid may have nothing to do with Russia, but it still absolutely could have a LOT to do with Trump.

    If Cohen was committing crimes, it's entirely plausible he was doing some of them on behalf of Trump. Trump is certainly acting like this raid is an attack on him. Like he's fairly certain the FBI will find things about his own involvement in these alleged crimes.

    It's going to be real interesting to watch this case.

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  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    I’m assuming the documents implicate many people, not just Cohen.

    Supposedly documents seized include records of conversions between Trump and Cohen.

    Attorney Client privalige won’t keep them safe if they discuss crimes they are committing.

    Artereis wrote: »
    It's not your fault, Viskod. 1 out of every 10 people just happens to be a monster.
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  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor Registered User regular
    edited April 2018
    Viskod wrote: »
    And Michael Cohens page at gop.com about him being the finance chair of the party is already missing.

    Oh, shit. I forgot about that. Mueller was looking into foreign campaign funds; which could have been to context of his tip on whatever this is.

    Edit: And if this is targeting the GOP, it makes sense that they would want to put more of a target on Mueller.

    (Though this feels like pretty tin-foily speculation)

    ArbitraryDescriptor on
  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    Viskod wrote: »
    I’m assuming the documents implicate many people, not just Cohen.

    Supposedly documents seized include records of conversions between Trump and Cohen.

    Attorney Client privalige won’t keep them safe if they discuss crimes they are committing.

    Records or recordings?

    Is Cohen a smart enough lawyer to sanitize those kind of things?

    steam_sig.png
  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    Disco11 wrote: »
    SO is this related to the Stormy Daniels payoff?

    Only in that is probably part of the info seized. Judges do not sign off on search warrants targeting defense attorneys lightly. That goes treble when said attorney is tied to the President of the United States. This happening is massive.

    The most important thing is that it prevents Cohen from destroying evidence related to Stormy Daniels from this point forward.

    FencingsaxElvenshae
  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    edited April 2018
    It's worth noting that the raid was executed by the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York, Geoffrey S. Berman, who holds that position on an interim basis after Preet Bahara was fired by Trump.

    Prior to today, he was expected to be Trump's nominee to the post permanently.

    I'm guessing that opinion will be subject to change in the near future.

    Inquisitor77 on
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  • SurfpossumSurfpossum A nonentity trying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered User regular
    Mr Khan wrote: »
    Popehat has a good writeup on this. When their website stops being crashed because of all the people reading their writeup on this.

    https://www.popehat.com/2018/04/09/the-search-of-trump-lawyer-michael-cohens-office-what-we-can-infer-immediately/
    I believe this is the same writeup:
    https://reason.com/archives/2018/04/09/what-we-know-about-the-search-trump-lawy
    Moreover, it's not just that the office thought that there was enough for a search warrant. They thought there was enough for a search warrant of an attorney's office for that attorney's client communications. That's a very fraught and extraordinary move that requires multiple levels of authorization within the Department of Justice.

    Seems like a Big Deal.

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    Viskod wrote: »
    I’m assuming the documents implicate many people, not just Cohen.

    Supposedly documents seized include records of conversions between Trump and Cohen.

    Attorney Client privalige won’t keep them safe if they discuss crimes they are committing.

    Records or recordings?

    Is Cohen a smart enough lawyer to sanitize those kind of things?

    He’s very consistently a gigantic idiot

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  • KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    edited April 2018
    edit - moved to other thread, didn't know which to post in

    Kaputa on
  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited April 2018
    Let's keep this thread to specifically talking about Cohen and his mess please

    So It Goes on
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  • XantomasXantomas Registered User regular
    Wooohooo campaign finance violations evidence, hopefully! It would be like taking down Capone with tax evasion.

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  • PriestPriest Registered User regular
    Question:

    How does law enforcement seize these documents and avoid breaching attorney-client privilege at the same time?

    I mean, surely they have a warrant to search for documents related to money laundering, campaign finance violations, etc. But if, in the processing of those documents, they found evidence of another crime, and that evidence was say, documentation of a conversation between attorney and client? How do you put the rabbit back in the hat on that sort of thing? Does it become inadmissible and you have to prove it some other way? Does everyone take a valium and pretend it never happened? Like, this is a part of law that I never thought about and I'm really curious about now. What is the extent of attorney-client privilege?

  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    No words for my disappoint OP didn't go with "you've gotta get yourself a criminal lawyer"

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  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    Trump basically admitted the NDA was invalid a few days ago when he said he didn't know anything about the payment to Daniels

    SiG as a legal matter what does that make the pay off if theres no valid agreement to go along with it?

  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist Registered User regular
    Priest wrote: »
    Question:

    How does law enforcement seize these documents and avoid breaching attorney-client privilege at the same time?

    I mean, surely they have a warrant to search for documents related to money laundering, campaign finance violations, etc. But if, in the processing of those documents, they found evidence of another crime, and that evidence was say, documentation of a conversation between attorney and client? How do you put the rabbit back in the hat on that sort of thing? Does it become inadmissible and you have to prove it some other way? Does everyone take a valium and pretend it never happened? Like, this is a part of law that I never thought about and I'm really curious about now. What is the extent of attorney-client privilege?

    The popehat article talks about that.

    In short, you are right: You have to do a LOT to do this, because there is no way not to violate the attorney/client privilege.

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  • ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    edited April 2018
    Has Cohen been under oath at all when claiming Trump was unaware of the Daniels settlement or that he used his own money? I'm curios if lying to the feds and/or perjury charges are able to be sought.

    Butters on
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  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades 地獄のようにかわいい あなたは嫉妬深いかRegistered User regular
    Everything ever is a witch hunt, including this Cohen incident!

    Well then Mr. President, why do your companies, relatives, cabinet, and lawyers all resemble the Slytherin common room?

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  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Priest wrote: »
    Question:

    How does law enforcement seize these documents and avoid breaching attorney-client privilege at the same time?

    I mean, surely they have a warrant to search for documents related to money laundering, campaign finance violations, etc. But if, in the processing of those documents, they found evidence of another crime, and that evidence was say, documentation of a conversation between attorney and client? How do you put the rabbit back in the hat on that sort of thing? Does it become inadmissible and you have to prove it some other way? Does everyone take a valium and pretend it never happened? Like, this is a part of law that I never thought about and I'm really curious about now. What is the extent of attorney-client privilege?

    They double up the investigation. Running a dirty team (which looks at the info) and a clean team(that does not). This way they have perfect construction for anything they need if the dirty teams stuff gets thrown out

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  • ArdolArdol Registered User regular
    edited April 2018
    Priest wrote: »
    Question:

    How does law enforcement seize these documents and avoid breaching attorney-client privilege at the same time?

    I mean, surely they have a warrant to search for documents related to money laundering, campaign finance violations, etc. But if, in the processing of those documents, they found evidence of another crime, and that evidence was say, documentation of a conversation between attorney and client? How do you put the rabbit back in the hat on that sort of thing? Does it become inadmissible and you have to prove it some other way? Does everyone take a valium and pretend it never happened? Like, this is a part of law that I never thought about and I'm really curious about now. What is the extent of attorney-client privilege?

    From what I've read they use a completely separate "taint" team which is completely walled off from the rest of the investigation to go through the messages and separate out the ones which are privileged. The actual investigators don't ever see those files.

    Ardol on
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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Never do what your enemy expects you to do! Registered User regular
    edited April 2018
    Ardol wrote: »
    Priest wrote: »
    Question:

    How does law enforcement seize these documents and avoid breaching attorney-client privilege at the same time?

    I mean, surely they have a warrant to search for documents related to money laundering, campaign finance violations, etc. But if, in the processing of those documents, they found evidence of another crime, and that evidence was say, documentation of a conversation between attorney and client? How do you put the rabbit back in the hat on that sort of thing? Does it become inadmissible and you have to prove it some other way? Does everyone take a valium and pretend it never happened? Like, this is a part of law that I never thought about and I'm really curious about now. What is the extent of attorney-client privilege?

    From what I've read they use a completely separate "taint" team which is completely walled off from the rest of the investigation to go through the messages and separate out the ones which are privileged. The actual investigators don't ever see those files.

    Oh god. Please give me tv news anchors and talking heads having to say "taint team" ad nauseum.

    Undead Scottsman on
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  • LostNinjaLostNinja Registered User regular
    Ardol wrote: »
    Priest wrote: »
    Question:

    How does law enforcement seize these documents and avoid breaching attorney-client privilege at the same time?

    I mean, surely they have a warrant to search for documents related to money laundering, campaign finance violations, etc. But if, in the processing of those documents, they found evidence of another crime, and that evidence was say, documentation of a conversation between attorney and client? How do you put the rabbit back in the hat on that sort of thing? Does it become inadmissible and you have to prove it some other way? Does everyone take a valium and pretend it never happened? Like, this is a part of law that I never thought about and I'm really curious about now. What is the extent of attorney-client privilege?

    From what I've read they use a completely separate "taint" team which is completely walled off from the rest of the investigation to go through the messages and separate out the ones which are privileged. The actual investigators don't ever see those files.

    Any chance this is the reason Mueller passed it off?

    ArbitraryDescriptorGnizmo
  • ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit I'm a good person yes it's trueRegistered User regular
    Ardol wrote: »
    Priest wrote: »
    Question:

    How does law enforcement seize these documents and avoid breaching attorney-client privilege at the same time?

    I mean, surely they have a warrant to search for documents related to money laundering, campaign finance violations, etc. But if, in the processing of those documents, they found evidence of another crime, and that evidence was say, documentation of a conversation between attorney and client? How do you put the rabbit back in the hat on that sort of thing? Does it become inadmissible and you have to prove it some other way? Does everyone take a valium and pretend it never happened? Like, this is a part of law that I never thought about and I'm really curious about now. What is the extent of attorney-client privilege?

    From what I've read they use a completely separate "taint" team which is completely walled off from the rest of the investigation to go through the messages and separate out the ones which are privileged. The actual investigators don't ever see those files.

    it's basically a doc review gig though

    albeit a particularly sensitive one.

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  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    Viskod wrote: »
    I’m assuming the documents implicate many people, not just Cohen.

    Supposedly documents seized include records of conversions between Trump and Cohen.

    Attorney Client privalige won’t keep them safe if they discuss crimes they are committing.

    Records or recordings?

    Is Cohen a smart enough lawyer to sanitize those kind of things?

    are you asking if he's a bad enough dude to rescue the President?

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  • Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    edited April 2018
    Butters wrote: »
    Has Cohen been under oath at all when claiming Trump was unaware of the Daniels settlement or that he used his own money? I'm curios if lying to the feds and/or perjury charges are able to be sought.

    Given plenty interviews saying it, and he did sit for 2 days with the intelligence committees of both the house and Senate, but I doubt Stormy Daniels stuff came up, so probably nothing under oath. This feels pretty big though..big like they're likely going to trace this hush money and/or other shady expenses straight back the GOP. Of course there's always the possibility dude really was dumb enough to pull 130k out his home equity line for a client notorious for not paying his attorneys.

    At a minimum I feel like emails/documents with those two calling Daniels some very awful things are probably going to leak.

    Dark_Side on
  • No-QuarterNo-Quarter Nothing to Fear But Fear ItselfRegistered User regular
    Is Cohen the "Says who" guy?

    Or was that Lewandowski?

  • The Raging PlatypusThe Raging Platypus Registered User regular
    No-Quarter wrote: »
    Is Cohen the "Says who" guy?

    Or was that Lewandowski?

    He is indeed the "Says Who?" Guy.

    Quid wrote: »
    YOU'RE A GOD DAMN PLATYPUS.
    PSN Name: MusingPlatypus
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