Vader is incredibly ruthless and pretty uncaring of the lives of his men, he only cares about results and lives through fear. He does, notably, capture various rebels, destroy their base and almost capture Skywalker; I'd call him at times too callous to be a competent leader but certainly a dangerous and cunning foe.
This is why he executes his officer when the Falcon gets away. He already paid a cost of Tie Fighters and most likely a Star Destroyer to capture the Falcon (with Leia on it). Leia is super important Rebel leadership and has escaped capture before to rally the Rebels. Let's not forget maybe he has subconscious connection to her as well before he is fully aware she is his daughter.
But those damn fleet officers lost track of the Falcon, again.
Reminder that the stromtroopers appear incompetent on the Death Star because they were supposed to let Leia escape in order to track the Falcon to the hidden rebel base
also while Ozzel made the wrong decision to bring the fleet out of hyperspace close to the system, we are at least told that he thought this decision through and was trying to achieve tactical surprise, which is a reasonable enough idea
I actually never understood why Vader's idea was better, the Rebels had already started evacuating before the fleet arrived
I actually never understood why Vader's idea was better, the Rebels had already started evacuating before the fleet arrived
We won't know if the Empire could have effectively picked off evacuating Rebels from a space ambush. Vader says it would have been better so maybe they would have been outside Ion Cannon range....
But we do know there was enough time from Rebels deciding to evacuate to when they actually got ships out that Vader could order and execute a ground assault (which very nearly got them). So maybe he would have had enough time for a pretty good ambush.
Remember that Vader wanted them alive to goad Luke into a trap. Prey is much easier to catch alive when unaware it is being hunted. The Rebels being aware the Empire is in the system will ensure there is a fight, a fight can lead to accidentally killing someone you don’t want dead in the crossfire.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
A fair reminder that the Imperial's didn't blow up the escape pod in A New Hope. In a world filled with droids. Like, how much does it cost to fire a turbolaser? Why not be careful?
The world of Star Wars is filled with poor decisions.
On the First Order: Palps was setting up a staging ground in the Unknown Regions for a long time. They also have a lot of supporters in the New Republic. There was also a big push against centralization in the NR, especially with regards to the military. Plus the NR was much, much smaller than the Old Republic/Empire ever was. The Empire Balkenized after Jedi it seems.
0
Options
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
If Vader was on my ship and didn't give me express orders for unusual situations, you can bet your ass I wouldn't do anything without specifically being told. And then Vader boards a Rebel ship and is explicitly on the hunt for prisoners? No way am I shooting at life pods, that's a shortcut right to Chokey Street.
Not to mention that it wouldn't be any kind of stretch that life pods would normally not be considered valid military targets, so even the Empire wouldn't reflexively shoot them down without express orders to the contrary.
Vader is not an incompetent commander, he is a ruthless commander, there is a difference.
Keep in mind, Vader's objectives throughout ESB are not serving the Emperor's will, but his own. It's not required reading, but the fantastic Vader series by Marvel has been etching out that from the INSTANT Vader found out about Luke, both he and the Emperor have been in a race to kill the other off. They've been cooperating only as is necessary to manage the Rebellion.
Luke is not some prisoner, he's Vader's endgame. And thus worth throwing away any number of Destroyers to capture and convert.
Vader is not an incompetent commander, he is a ruthless commander, there is a difference.
Keep in mind, Vader's objectives throughout ESB are not serving the Emperor's will, but his own. It's not required reading, but the fantastic Vader series by Marvel has been etching out that from the INSTANT Vader found out about Luke, both he and the Emperor have been in a race to kill the other off. They've been cooperating only as is necessary to manage the Rebellion.
Luke is not some prisoner, he's Vader's endgame. And thus worth throwing away any number of Destroyers (and emperors) to capture and convert.
Yes, with a quick verbal "boom." You take a man's peko, you deny him his dab, all that is left is to rise up and tear down the walls of Jericho with a ".....not!" -TexiKen
Vader is not an incompetent commander, he is a ruthless commander, there is a difference.
Keep in mind, Vader's objectives throughout ESB are not serving the Emperor's will, but his own. It's not required reading, but the fantastic Vader series by Marvel has been etching out that from the INSTANT Vader found out about Luke, both he and the Emperor have been in a race to kill the other off. They've been cooperating only as is necessary to manage the Rebellion.
Luke is not some prisoner, he's Vader's endgame. And thus worth throwing away any number of Destroyers to capture and convert.
This is exciting to me, but why does Vader block Luke when he moves to strike down the emperor? What is Vader's goal in ROTJ?
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Reminder that the stromtroopers appear incompetent on the Death Star because they were supposed to let Leia escape in order to track the Falcon to the hidden rebel base
Man the old let em get away but don't make it too obvious ploy must be a fun one for NCO's to break down for everybody, "We need to engage the fleeing hostiles but just kind of cross your eyes when you shoot, also for the purposes of verisimilitude Pvt. Starblast and Cpl. Sleazebaggano are going to get shot in the face"
I thought it was because the Emperor was too powerful to take on directly. Even if Vadar wasn't there to block the attack the Emperor could have just stopped Luke's arm or something. So Vadar blocking was to show how much power the Emperor had over him.
Reminder that the stromtroopers appear incompetent on the Death Star because they were supposed to let Leia escape in order to track the Falcon to the hidden rebel base
Man the old let em get away but don't make it too obvious ploy must be a fun one for NCO's to break down for everybody, "We need to engage the fleeing hostiles but just kind of cross your eyes when you shoot, also for the purposes of verisimilitude Pvt. Starblast and Cpl. Sleazebaggano are going to get shot in the face"
Considering Vader still died from lightning when he was directly behind the Emperor, he was probably planning on killing him immediately after Luke was subdued.
0
Options
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Also by this point, Vader is emotionally compromised by his conversations with Luke.
Yeah, Vader's own state of mind has definitely been compromised by this time. Vader definitely wants the Emperor dead and Luke to join him, but he also knows that Luke killing Palpatine will tip him over to the Dark Side. Vader has also had decades of experience working with Palpatine, who would've had a plan for defending himself against Luke if Vader hadn't intervened; after all, this is the same Emperor who pulled the entire Rebel fleet into a trap against a superweapon that is entirely functional.
No way was Palpatine really going to sit there and let Luke chop him up, so Vader jumped in to protect Luke, not save the Emperor.
I wish Anakin was portrayed as smart instead of stupid. Darth Vader has unexplored depth.
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
+2
Options
That_GuyI don't wanna be that guyRegistered Userregular
Considering Vader still died from lightning when he was directly behind the Emperor, he was probably planning on killing him immediately after Luke was subdued.
That has one of my favorite "in universe" explanations. Vader's suit was designed to fail when stuck by force lightning. It was all part of Palpatine's plan to control Vader. There's this amazing backstory about the suit. Basically The Emperor used the cheapest and flimsiest possible life support systems to keep him alive. Wearing the suit is a nightmare. It's designed to be as uncomfortable as possible. It's constantly poking and jabbing at the tattered flesh on Vader's body. It makes constant annoying noises that one one else can hear. The control panel on his chest controls the entire life support system. Flipping a single switch the wrong way will fuck up the whole system.
I assume you're referring to the RLM review of Vader's suit from the old EU. In the new one, they walked back some of the most ridiculous examples. Vader's armor works, if it was a death trap, he wouldn't be known as much of a Jedi hunter.
The part about the life-support being designed to fail to force lightning is still accurate though.
I wouldn't go so far down the conspiracy well to say "Vader's suit was specifically designed to be weak to force lighting". It's a complex electrical device that no doubt does not play nicely when an electrical surge is introduced. It's just damned convenient your boss can do that with a flick of his finger.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
+2
Options
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Something like Vader's armor is nebulous because the EU material has been thrown out and there's not really a way to know just how much of Vader's armor was really designed before the movies.
Yeah, there's been a fuckton of material released after the fact, but Lucas was always a broad-strokes kind of filmmaker, not somebody who delves into the gritty details of the threadcount on Vader's sleeves. It's enormously more likely that Lucas just had something designed that he thought visually fit the part and sounded appropriately disturbing and intimidating, and everything after that has been essentially made up by fans or published books.
+4
Options
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
Vader wears armor because he's a knight. It's black because he's the black knight.
Reminder that the stromtroopers appear incompetent on the Death Star because they were supposed to let Leia escape in order to track the Falcon to the hidden rebel base
Man the old let em get away but don't make it too obvious ploy must be a fun one for NCO's to break down for everybody, "We need to engage the fleeing hostiles but just kind of cross your eyes when you shoot, also for the purposes of verisimilitude Pvt. Starblast and Cpl. Sleazebaggano are going to get shot in the face"
Vader is not an incompetent commander, he is a ruthless commander, there is a difference.
Keep in mind, Vader's objectives throughout ESB are not serving the Emperor's will, but his own. It's not required reading, but the fantastic Vader series by Marvel has been etching out that from the INSTANT Vader found out about Luke, both he and the Emperor have been in a race to kill the other off. They've been cooperating only as is necessary to manage the Rebellion.
Luke is not some prisoner, he's Vader's endgame. And thus worth throwing away any number of Destroyers to capture and convert.
This is exciting to me, but why does Vader block Luke when he moves to strike down the emperor? What is Vader's goal in ROTJ?
I would guess that Vader remembers that 4 Jedi Masters, trained by the order, including Mace Windu went to visit Palpatine and when he showed up a handful of minutes later he found a pile of jedi parts and a terrified Mace holding Palpatine at blade point (shortly before seeing Mace get force lightninged into the background).
It's not unreasonable to believe that Vader was terrified that his son would get butchered by Palpatine in a straight up confrontation. I mean, presumably they had a few minutes at some point to catch up before Luke and Vader went before The Emperor (I'd love to see that conversation to be honest, "Yoda, huh? That little frog gnome's still around? I should tell you about the time I first met him. Eleven years old, too old to begin training, too much anger, too much fear... huh, maybe he was onto something"). Long enough for Vader to realize his son's strong in the force, but no match on his own for Palpatine unless he goes full dark side, and even then...?
Vader is not an incompetent commander, he is a ruthless commander, there is a difference.
Keep in mind, Vader's objectives throughout ESB are not serving the Emperor's will, but his own. It's not required reading, but the fantastic Vader series by Marvel has been etching out that from the INSTANT Vader found out about Luke, both he and the Emperor have been in a race to kill the other off. They've been cooperating only as is necessary to manage the Rebellion.
Luke is not some prisoner, he's Vader's endgame. And thus worth throwing away any number of Destroyers to capture and convert.
This is exciting to me, but why does Vader block Luke when he moves to strike down the emperor? What is Vader's goal in ROTJ?
I would guess that Vader remembers that 4 Jedi Masters, trained by the order, including Mace Windu went to visit Palpatine and when he showed up a handful of minutes later he found a pile of jedi parts and a terrified Mace holding Palpatine at blade point (shortly before seeing Mace get force lightninged into the background).
It's not unreasonable to believe that Vader was terrified that his son would get butchered by Palpatine in a straight up confrontation. I mean, presumably they had a few minutes at some point to catch up before Luke and Vader went before The Emperor (I'd love to see that conversation to be honest, "Yoda, huh? That little frog gnome's still around? I should tell you about the time I first met him. Eleven years old, too old to begin training, too much anger, too much fear... huh, maybe he was onto something"). Long enough for Vader to realize his son's strong in the force, but no match on his own for Palpatine unless he goes full dark side, and even then...?
I'm thinking of several theories
1. He needs to imbue Luke with more nihilism to avoid being killed or be forever a puppet of the emperor and he wants to die by Luke's hand
2. The part of him that wants to bring balance to the force is reviving and knows that Luke killing the emperor is not the way to do it
3. The Dooku vs. Anakin principle of inheritance through murder; Darth Vader is just fighting for his life
4. He's afraid Luke will surpass him and be a worse boss than the emperor
5. He is not playing an endgame; he just wants to incapacitate Luke like he did in ESB to make him easier to train
6. Facing the emperor was the final interview and Luke failed, now to kill him and find another
7. Victim of the Jedi habit of reading the script without sussing out the particulars, all he knows is that they have to fight according to prophecy
8. He is just a tool of the emperor and doesn't make a single move for himself up to the moment he tosses the emperor in the pit
After reviewing these possibilities I'm not sure that Darth Vader as a saboteur is sufficiently supported in the text
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
You mean not supported when he literally says in ESB he wants the both of them to kill Emperor and rule the galaxy?
Cause that was a thing you know.
I mean you can watch the scene and believe he's being sincere, or that he's lying to Luke in order to lure him into captivity for the Emperor. But that would also mean he's lying about Luke being his son, right? (Certainly this would have been the viewpoint of someone before ROTJ came out.)
I always kind of interpreted that scene as Vader trying to turn Luke to the dark side by offering him something he wants, like defeating the Emperor. Any temptation could have potentially worked, but since Luke is an inherently good person, Vader is offering him the illusion of good in order to corrupt him at leisure.
Like, “Don’t worry Luke, we’ll totally defeat the Emporer, but can’t do it today cause we need to earn his trust first so his guard is let down. Just do this one, minor task. It’ll hardly be evil at all...”
Could be a little column A, little column B too, I suppose.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
+1
Options
That_GuyI don't wanna be that guyRegistered Userregular
Imagine being Anikin. You spend years as a Jedi Knight but they never grant you the rank of master. Old Palpi comes along and says all you gotta do to be a Sith Master is go and murder some children. You do the deed, destroying the Jedi in the process only to sepnd the next 20 years as the apprentice of a shriveled up prune. If you were to attack and kill him like any good Sith would be want to do, it would almost completely spell your death in the process. It's no wonder Vader fell in with Tarkin and eventually tried to turn Luke.
She doesn't tell Poe her plan because it needs to be kept to need-to-know.
What does Poe do one he does figure out her plan? He goes blabbing about it to other people, and DJ is one of those people who hears the plan, and he tells the First Order about it.
Holdo's plan would have worked had Poe not interfered by sending Rose and Finn off and then blabbing about the plan to them. Everyone would have evacuated to the planet and the First Order would have assumed that they had destroyed all of the Resistance and left.
In hindsight a big mistake TLJ makes is assuming the general public has a basic understanding of chain of command and need to know principles. I've seen so many people utterly befuddled by it that I almost think the movie needed to take a moment to educate folks. Loose lips sink ships and all that. Throw some goddamn PSA's in there.
She doesn't tell Poe her plan because it needs to be kept to need-to-know.
What does Poe do one he does figure out her plan? He goes blabbing about it to other people, and DJ is one of those people who hears the plan, and he tells the First Order about it.
Holdo's plan would have worked had Poe not interfered by sending Rose and Finn off and then blabbing about the plan to them. Everyone would have evacuated to the planet and the First Order would have assumed that they had destroyed all of the Resistance and left.
In hindsight a big mistake TLJ makes is assuming the general public has a basic understanding of chain of command and need to know principles. I've seen so many people utterly befuddled by it that I almost think the movie needed to take a moment to educate folks. Loose lips sink ships and all that. Throw some goddamn PSA's in there.
Thing is though people keep bouncing back and forth on whether the Rebel Alliance has a strict hierarchy with an equally rigid military protocol, or if it's a free spirited jamboree that hands out ranks to any ol' smuggler or farmboy and everybody gets a voice and gets to participate at the big meetings. I've seen people flip flop between both sides depending on what is being debated at the time.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
+2
Options
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
She doesn't tell Poe her plan because it needs to be kept to need-to-know.
What does Poe do one he does figure out her plan? He goes blabbing about it to other people, and DJ is one of those people who hears the plan, and he tells the First Order about it.
Holdo's plan would have worked had Poe not interfered by sending Rose and Finn off and then blabbing about the plan to them. Everyone would have evacuated to the planet and the First Order would have assumed that they had destroyed all of the Resistance and left.
In hindsight a big mistake TLJ makes is assuming the general public has a basic understanding of chain of command and need to know principles. I've seen so many people utterly befuddled by it that I almost think the movie needed to take a moment to educate folks. Loose lips sink ships and all that. Throw some goddamn PSA's in there.
Thing is though people keep bouncing back and forth on whether the Rebel Alliance has a strict hierarchy with an equally rigid military protocol, or if it's a free spirited jamboree that hands out ranks to any ol' smuggler or farmboy and everybody gets a voice and gets to participate at the big meetings. I've seen people flip flop between both sides depending on what is being debated at the time.
It's less a matter of how the Rebellion/Resistance works, and more a combination of Johnson creating a situation which does not match how the organization has ever worked in the past along with the situation only having a reasonable explanation if, suddenly, real-world military rules and practices are shoehorned in. The issue itself (Poe's recklessness and learning to think before acting) could fit in the setting fine, but the way it is played out is completely incompatible with all the SW movie material that came before it and clumsy as hell for it.
And I mean "incompatible", not just "different". The Resistance suddenly operating just now with real-world military rules would be as bad if the films suddenly paid close and strict attention to actual physics and orbital mechanics; it's an approach that can work perfectly fine in a setting built for it, but it would be a horrible and nonsensical mismatch for this setting.
It's like Johnson had the idea for an arc in a completely different movie and decided to just hammer it into a shape that would only barely fit in Star Wars, and just ignored the incompatibility because it was inconvenient.
+7
Options
AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
She doesn't tell Poe her plan because it needs to be kept to need-to-know.
What does Poe do one he does figure out her plan? He goes blabbing about it to other people, and DJ is one of those people who hears the plan, and he tells the First Order about it.
Holdo's plan would have worked had Poe not interfered by sending Rose and Finn off and then blabbing about the plan to them. Everyone would have evacuated to the planet and the First Order would have assumed that they had destroyed all of the Resistance and left.
In hindsight a big mistake TLJ makes is assuming the general public has a basic understanding of chain of command and need to know principles. I've seen so many people utterly befuddled by it that I almost think the movie needed to take a moment to educate folks. Loose lips sink ships and all that. Throw some goddamn PSA's in there.
Thing is though people keep bouncing back and forth on whether the Rebel Alliance has a strict hierarchy with an equally rigid military protocol, or if it's a free spirited jamboree that hands out ranks to any ol' smuggler or farmboy and everybody gets a voice and gets to participate at the big meetings. I've seen people flip flop between both sides depending on what is being debated at the time.
It's less a matter of how the Rebellion/Resistance works, and more a combination of Johnson creating a situation which does not match how the organization has ever worked in the past along with the situation only having a reasonable explanation if, suddenly, real-world military rules and practices are shoehorned in. The issue itself (Poe's recklessness and learning to think before acting) could fit in the setting fine, but the way it is played out is completely incompatible with all the SW movie material that came before it and clumsy as hell for it.
And I mean "incompatible", not just "different". The Resistance suddenly operating just now with real-world military rules would be as bad if the films suddenly paid close and strict attention to actual physics and orbital mechanics; it's an approach that can work perfectly fine in a setting built for it, but it would be a horrible and nonsensical mismatch for this setting.
It's like Johnson had the idea for an arc in a completely different movie and decided to just hammer it into a shape that would only barely fit in Star Wars, and just ignored the incompatibility because it was inconvenient.
This interpretation only works if the Rebellion / Resistance is a disorganized circus that hands out meaningless ranks like candy and, well, I really don't think the films support that. At all.
She doesn't tell Poe her plan because it needs to be kept to need-to-know.
What does Poe do one he does figure out her plan? He goes blabbing about it to other people, and DJ is one of those people who hears the plan, and he tells the First Order about it.
Holdo's plan would have worked had Poe not interfered by sending Rose and Finn off and then blabbing about the plan to them. Everyone would have evacuated to the planet and the First Order would have assumed that they had destroyed all of the Resistance and left.
In hindsight a big mistake TLJ makes is assuming the general public has a basic understanding of chain of command and need to know principles. I've seen so many people utterly befuddled by it that I almost think the movie needed to take a moment to educate folks. Loose lips sink ships and all that. Throw some goddamn PSA's in there.
Thing is though people keep bouncing back and forth on whether the Rebel Alliance has a strict hierarchy with an equally rigid military protocol, or if it's a free spirited jamboree that hands out ranks to any ol' smuggler or farmboy and everybody gets a voice and gets to participate at the big meetings. I've seen people flip flop between both sides depending on what is being debated at the time.
It's less a matter of how the Rebellion/Resistance works, and more a combination of Johnson creating a situation which does not match how the organization has ever worked in the past along with the situation only having a reasonable explanation if, suddenly, real-world military rules and practices are shoehorned in. The issue itself (Poe's recklessness and learning to think before acting) could fit in the setting fine, but the way it is played out is completely incompatible with all the SW movie material that came before it and clumsy as hell for it.
And I mean "incompatible", not just "different". The Resistance suddenly operating just now with real-world military rules would be as bad if the films suddenly paid close and strict attention to actual physics and orbital mechanics; it's an approach that can work perfectly fine in a setting built for it, but it would be a horrible and nonsensical mismatch for this setting.
It's like Johnson had the idea for an arc in a completely different movie and decided to just hammer it into a shape that would only barely fit in Star Wars, and just ignored the incompatibility because it was inconvenient.
This interpretation only works if the Rebellion / Resistance is a disorganized circus that hands out meaningless ranks like candy and, well, I really don't think the films support that. At all.
"General" Solo.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
Posts
This is why he executes his officer when the Falcon gets away. He already paid a cost of Tie Fighters and most likely a Star Destroyer to capture the Falcon (with Leia on it). Leia is super important Rebel leadership and has escaped capture before to rally the Rebels. Let's not forget maybe he has subconscious connection to her as well before he is fully aware she is his daughter.
But those damn fleet officers lost track of the Falcon, again.
also while Ozzel made the wrong decision to bring the fleet out of hyperspace close to the system, we are at least told that he thought this decision through and was trying to achieve tactical surprise, which is a reasonable enough idea
I actually never understood why Vader's idea was better, the Rebels had already started evacuating before the fleet arrived
We won't know if the Empire could have effectively picked off evacuating Rebels from a space ambush. Vader says it would have been better so maybe they would have been outside Ion Cannon range....
But we do know there was enough time from Rebels deciding to evacuate to when they actually got ships out that Vader could order and execute a ground assault (which very nearly got them). So maybe he would have had enough time for a pretty good ambush.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
The world of Star Wars is filled with poor decisions.
On the First Order: Palps was setting up a staging ground in the Unknown Regions for a long time. They also have a lot of supporters in the New Republic. There was also a big push against centralization in the NR, especially with regards to the military. Plus the NR was much, much smaller than the Old Republic/Empire ever was. The Empire Balkenized after Jedi it seems.
Not to mention that it wouldn't be any kind of stretch that life pods would normally not be considered valid military targets, so even the Empire wouldn't reflexively shoot them down without express orders to the contrary.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Keep in mind, Vader's objectives throughout ESB are not serving the Emperor's will, but his own. It's not required reading, but the fantastic Vader series by Marvel has been etching out that from the INSTANT Vader found out about Luke, both he and the Emperor have been in a race to kill the other off. They've been cooperating only as is necessary to manage the Rebellion.
Luke is not some prisoner, he's Vader's endgame. And thus worth throwing away any number of Destroyers to capture and convert.
This is exciting to me, but why does Vader block Luke when he moves to strike down the emperor? What is Vader's goal in ROTJ?
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Also by this point, Vader is emotionally compromised by his conversations with Luke.
Man the old let em get away but don't make it too obvious ploy must be a fun one for NCO's to break down for everybody, "We need to engage the fleeing hostiles but just kind of cross your eyes when you shoot, also for the purposes of verisimilitude Pvt. Starblast and Cpl. Sleazebaggano are going to get shot in the face"
Two Words: SGLI Benefits.
Yeah, Vader's own state of mind has definitely been compromised by this time. Vader definitely wants the Emperor dead and Luke to join him, but he also knows that Luke killing Palpatine will tip him over to the Dark Side. Vader has also had decades of experience working with Palpatine, who would've had a plan for defending himself against Luke if Vader hadn't intervened; after all, this is the same Emperor who pulled the entire Rebel fleet into a trap against a superweapon that is entirely functional.
No way was Palpatine really going to sit there and let Luke chop him up, so Vader jumped in to protect Luke, not save the Emperor.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
That has one of my favorite "in universe" explanations. Vader's suit was designed to fail when stuck by force lightning. It was all part of Palpatine's plan to control Vader. There's this amazing backstory about the suit. Basically The Emperor used the cheapest and flimsiest possible life support systems to keep him alive. Wearing the suit is a nightmare. It's designed to be as uncomfortable as possible. It's constantly poking and jabbing at the tattered flesh on Vader's body. It makes constant annoying noises that one one else can hear. The control panel on his chest controls the entire life support system. Flipping a single switch the wrong way will fuck up the whole system.
The part about the life-support being designed to fail to force lightning is still accurate though.
Yeah, there's been a fuckton of material released after the fact, but Lucas was always a broad-strokes kind of filmmaker, not somebody who delves into the gritty details of the threadcount on Vader's sleeves. It's enormously more likely that Lucas just had something designed that he thought visually fit the part and sounded appropriately disturbing and intimidating, and everything after that has been essentially made up by fans or published books.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
I would guess that Vader remembers that 4 Jedi Masters, trained by the order, including Mace Windu went to visit Palpatine and when he showed up a handful of minutes later he found a pile of jedi parts and a terrified Mace holding Palpatine at blade point (shortly before seeing Mace get force lightninged into the background).
It's not unreasonable to believe that Vader was terrified that his son would get butchered by Palpatine in a straight up confrontation. I mean, presumably they had a few minutes at some point to catch up before Luke and Vader went before The Emperor (I'd love to see that conversation to be honest, "Yoda, huh? That little frog gnome's still around? I should tell you about the time I first met him. Eleven years old, too old to begin training, too much anger, too much fear... huh, maybe he was onto something"). Long enough for Vader to realize his son's strong in the force, but no match on his own for Palpatine unless he goes full dark side, and even then...?
I'm thinking of several theories
1. He needs to imbue Luke with more nihilism to avoid being killed or be forever a puppet of the emperor and he wants to die by Luke's hand
2. The part of him that wants to bring balance to the force is reviving and knows that Luke killing the emperor is not the way to do it
3. The Dooku vs. Anakin principle of inheritance through murder; Darth Vader is just fighting for his life
4. He's afraid Luke will surpass him and be a worse boss than the emperor
5. He is not playing an endgame; he just wants to incapacitate Luke like he did in ESB to make him easier to train
6. Facing the emperor was the final interview and Luke failed, now to kill him and find another
7. Victim of the Jedi habit of reading the script without sussing out the particulars, all he knows is that they have to fight according to prophecy
8. He is just a tool of the emperor and doesn't make a single move for himself up to the moment he tosses the emperor in the pit
After reviewing these possibilities I'm not sure that Darth Vader as a saboteur is sufficiently supported in the text
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Cause that was a thing you know.
I mean you can watch the scene and believe he's being sincere, or that he's lying to Luke in order to lure him into captivity for the Emperor. But that would also mean he's lying about Luke being his son, right? (Certainly this would have been the viewpoint of someone before ROTJ came out.)
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Like, “Don’t worry Luke, we’ll totally defeat the Emporer, but can’t do it today cause we need to earn his trust first so his guard is let down. Just do this one, minor task. It’ll hardly be evil at all...”
Could be a little column A, little column B too, I suppose.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Dude was not the brightest lightsaber in the bunch in the end.
For a kid that grew up on the streets you'd think he'd have a bit more smarts but no.
I mean, there was some setup for that. He had murdered an entire village of sand people, than hate-fucked Patty right after.
In hindsight a big mistake TLJ makes is assuming the general public has a basic understanding of chain of command and need to know principles. I've seen so many people utterly befuddled by it that I almost think the movie needed to take a moment to educate folks. Loose lips sink ships and all that. Throw some goddamn PSA's in there.
Thing is though people keep bouncing back and forth on whether the Rebel Alliance has a strict hierarchy with an equally rigid military protocol, or if it's a free spirited jamboree that hands out ranks to any ol' smuggler or farmboy and everybody gets a voice and gets to participate at the big meetings. I've seen people flip flop between both sides depending on what is being debated at the time.
It's less a matter of how the Rebellion/Resistance works, and more a combination of Johnson creating a situation which does not match how the organization has ever worked in the past along with the situation only having a reasonable explanation if, suddenly, real-world military rules and practices are shoehorned in. The issue itself (Poe's recklessness and learning to think before acting) could fit in the setting fine, but the way it is played out is completely incompatible with all the SW movie material that came before it and clumsy as hell for it.
And I mean "incompatible", not just "different". The Resistance suddenly operating just now with real-world military rules would be as bad if the films suddenly paid close and strict attention to actual physics and orbital mechanics; it's an approach that can work perfectly fine in a setting built for it, but it would be a horrible and nonsensical mismatch for this setting.
It's like Johnson had the idea for an arc in a completely different movie and decided to just hammer it into a shape that would only barely fit in Star Wars, and just ignored the incompatibility because it was inconvenient.
This interpretation only works if the Rebellion / Resistance is a disorganized circus that hands out meaningless ranks like candy and, well, I really don't think the films support that. At all.
"General" Solo.