AssuranIs swinging on the SpiralRegistered Userregular
Besides both being RPG's, there isn't much of a similarity between D&D and FFG's Star Wars.
And this isn't a bad thing! I enjoy both, but they are entirely different beasts.
In D&D, conflict resolution of any sort is usually resolved by rolling a d20 and adding modifiers. In DnD, it's Pass/Fail. You hit or you miss. YOu find the trap or you don't.
In FFG Star Wars, they have their own dice system. You can fail to do what you want, but have something happen that still turns the situation in your favor. Likewise, you could succeed at a task, but potentially introduce a setback you didn't foresee.
For example, say you're shooting at someone. You roll the dice and all told you have zero successes, but 4 advantage. You miss but you decide with the 4 advantage your blaster fire forces the NPC into an unfavorable defensive position (perhaps the shots destroyed the heavy boxes he was hiding behind) granting your friends a bonus dice to hit.
Or, you rolled a success but 3 threat to find the mcguffin in the vault you were sent to retrieve. You found it, but it was trapped! An alarm goes off and now everyone knows a robbery is in process!
My last $0.02 before I head off to work is that the 30th anniversary edition of the original WEG Star Wars RPG is available from FFG. It's a minimalist RPG in the way that Original D&D was, and doesn't require fancy dice purchases. In my opinion that kind of game lends itself well to Narrative playstyles. There were additional splatbooks and later editions of that game (some of which are available for free online), and while I think they've got merit the did tend to add more fiddly bits to the game bringing it more in line with later editions of D&D, though still using a roll & add D6s dice pool system.
Thanks for the input, I've browsed through some of the RPG threads but I really wanted to get feedback from people that like Star Wars and know about the FFG game as opposed to people who like RPGs and may or may not like Star Wars.
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AssuranIs swinging on the SpiralRegistered Userregular
edited December 2018
I've played all the Star Wars RPGs in my lifetime and my group thinks the FFG version is most like the movies.
I personally am still fond of WEG's, but that may be because I played it the most and have a huge bank of goodwill built up towards it.
It's a good system. Just make sure your players want to buy into the narrative aspect of the game. If they are more beer and pretzel type gamers, it may not fit your table.
This may be the right place to ask something, I've been looking for a solid DnD star wars game that is more narrative and was looking at the Fantasy Flight system but I don't want to invest in it without knowing more about it. does anyone know if it compares well with DnD 5e or if it even works at all?
FFG Star Wars is the best system for telling cinematic Star Wars tales. It's easy to pick up, easy to run on the fly, and all it requires from the players is imagination and willingness to invest in the story.
WEG Star Wars is also real good, but it has a lot more fiddly bits and is tougher to run on the fly. There are charts and tables for everything, which can slow things down if you're not hyper familiar with everything.
RPG Context: WEG Star Wars was my first roleplaying game. I asked my parents to buy it for me when I saw it in the gift shop as we exited Star Tours. I was seven. I've been playing these games on and off for over thirty years.
Star Wars Context: One of my children is named Revan.
I pretty much named my son after a Battlemech and my wife has never caught on.
She's a geek, too. All our kids have names that are from modern mythology - Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Warhammer 40k, Star Wars, and the Elder Scrolls. They're even thematic; our firstborn is named after protectors, our second after tabula rasa characters, etc.
Your story about Star Tours is EXACTLY how I found the WEG Star Wars game. I think I might have been a few years older, I think I was in 6th or 7th grade.
Also, don't know about you, but I am HELLA HYPED about the Disney Star Wars ride opening next year. HELLA HYPED.
Your story about Star Tours is EXACTLY how I found the WEG Star Wars game. I think I might have been a few years older, I think I was in 6th or 7th grade.
Also, don't know about you, but I am HELLA HYPED about the Disney Star Wars ride opening next year. HELLA HYPED.
I was just at Disney World with my kids and we could see parts of the new Star Wars Land from the Slinky Dog Dash in Toy Story Land. It looked super cool, but I'm glad we won't be up for returning to Disney for a few years. They're currently estimating up to 10 hour waits for the new rides when that area first opens
They're currently estimating up to 10 hour waits for the new rides when that area first opens
There's so many rumors on how they're going to handle it. One thing I read recently was that they're going to control admission separately from the other Disney stuff, and only allow visitors access during certain time windows.
KetarCome on upstairswe're having a partyRegistered Userregular
We were there the week after Thanksgiving, which is supposed to be a really slow week for Disney, and the relatively new Avatar and Toy Story rides almost always had 1.5-2 hour wait times posted and no fastpass availability at all unless you got lucky with booking one 60 days in advance. The Star Wars stuff is going to be slammed for a while with all of the extra hype and adult fans it will bring in.
That said, very jealous of anyone getting there sooner rather than later. What we could see looked great, and the stuff they already have there like the Jedi Training for kids is super well done.
Cinemawins posted "Everything Great About Star Wars: The Last Jedi". Cinemawins is usually pretty good (regardless of your thoughts about the movie in question), so enjoy.
WEG Star Wars is ok, and the FFG ones aren't bad, but Star Wars Saga Edition is my favorite.
It's based on a D&D engine so very easy for a D&D group to pick up and does the best job of making everyone useful, rather than Jedi best at everything.
Edit: [Expletive deleted] why are you starting TLJ arguments up again? I was just looking forward to some nice Star Wars RPG chat
WEG Star Wars is ok, and the FFG ones aren't bad, but Star Wars Saga Edition is my favorite.
It's based on a D&D engine so very easy for a D&D group to pick up and does the best job of making everyone useful, rather than Jedi best at everything.
Edit: [Expletive deleted] why are you starting TLJ arguments up again? I was just looking forward to some nice Star Wars RPG chat
Some people just want to see the world burn?
I honestly just wanted to post a positive, upbeat video from a channel that always finds something enjoyable even in not-great movies.
I pretty much named my son after a Battlemech and my wife has never caught on.
Who would object to a son named Maruader IIc?
Right? Urbanmech is too silly though.
But my actual last name is a different spelling, but pretty much pronouced HAWK. And I named my kid after a mythical bird that rises from the ashes (and not a fuckin' city in Arizona, nosy lady at the supermarket)
Anyway.... back to Wars amongst the Stars. Or at least the fan base.
WEG Star Wars is ok, and the FFG ones aren't bad, but Star Wars Saga Edition is my favorite.
It's based on a D&D engine so very easy for a D&D group to pick up and does the best job of making everyone useful, rather than Jedi best at everything.
I had all the hype when SWSE was released, and I still own all the books, but I think it's the weakest of the SW RPG offerings (well, second weakest, I never bought into d20SW/RCR). It felt like such a huge step forward compared to D&D 3.5, but D&D 4e and FFG SW make SWSE look like it has aged terribly. I've become an opponent of 1d20 resolution (it's a coin flip with 18 redundant sides fight me), and now that I'm old and have kids I'm into games I don't have to spend hours meticulously crafting stat blocks for every encounter.
That said I still crack those books open for ideas every time I run a SW game.
I honestly don't remember how well the WEG system worked at the table, but I will forever be in its debt for introducing me to the concept of there being more to a universe that I loved than three the movies that I watched on VHS. And its well known, I thought, that when Timothy Zahn was given the go ahead to write his Heir to the Empire trilogy he was given the WEG RPG books as source material.
But the FFG games are more modern and sexy and I think more narrative in its design. Also, I think the FFG games will be supported more in the future than a 30th anniversary reprinting of the WEG systems. I liked SAGA edition too... some of the concepts that ended up as being core to D&D's 4th edition were introduced in SAGA edition. But I would recommend the FFG system for someone starting to play Star Wars RPG's now.
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Bloods EndBlade of TyshallePunch dimensionRegistered Userregular
I pretty much named my son after a Battlemech and my wife has never caught on.
Who would object to a son named Maruader IIc?
Right? Urbanmech is too silly though.
But my actual last name is a different spelling, but pretty much pronouced HAWK. And I named my kid after a mythical bird that rises from the ashes (and not a fuckin' city in Arizona, nosy lady at the supermarket)
Anyway.... back to Wars amongst the Stars. Or at least the fan base.
I mean, you could shorten it to Mads. That name seemed to work out okay for some.
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AssuranIs swinging on the SpiralRegistered Userregular
There are specific rules for Sabaac in the Suns of Fortune supplement for FFG's Star Wars, having a gambler in the party I GM for currently, I'm well aware of them.
I don't think there were specific rules for it in WEG or WoTC Star Wars, but I could just be forgetting them.
Edit: I don't deny that WEG's rules systems feel very outdated based in the modern world.
I gotta say I’m loving all the RPG chat. No one asked me, but I’ll write my druthers with the FFG system, which largely boil down to “not my cup o’ tea.” Generally speaking, I like my RPGs to allow for tactical decision-making outside of character creation: I like Narrative board games like Thornwatch or Descent and also tactical war games like Warhammer 40k and Legion for the same reason. And while I don’t necessarily want to play a strict simulation game like GURPS, I do like a little simulation and a simplified positioning system: 13th Age I think offers a good example of the kinds of systems I like, though I’m not fond of rolling tons of dice in my damage roll. Actually, I’m not fond of HP at all, which is another reason I prefer WEGs SWRPG.
My impression from running a few games of FFGs SWRPG, and also from watching a few online games, is that the best way to game the system is to overspecialize at character creation, and then to use your best skill whenever possible, fishing for those Triumph symbols in every roll. Even players who aren’t generally min-maxers catch on to this pretty quickly and will avoid even making difficult rolls if they’re worried about how I could spend those Threat/Dispair symbols. Additionally, even though it’s a dice pool system, the fact that you’re playing with two different axis of results means that rolls can be very swingy, which again plays against my preferences. Lastly each roll can take some time to interpret, and while determining success or failure is simple, meting out advantage and disadvantage is ways that are proportional, consistent, and thematically appropriate takes a lot of experience.
But as I’ve said I’m largely alone on these boards in my complaints. If you’re the kind of Narrative player that enjoys crafting the story from the dice results, then this is definitely your game. If you like Narrative games with more predictable outcomes and player control (like Blades in the Dark) you may want to try something else.
I gotta say I’m loving all the RPG chat. No one asked me, but I’ll write my druthers with the FFG system, which largely boil down to “not my cup o’ tea.” Generally speaking, I like my RPGs to allow for tactical decision-making outside of character creation: I like Narrative board games like Thornwatch or Descent and also tactical war games like Warhammer 40k and Legion for the same reason. And while I don’t necessarily want to play a strict simulation game like GURPS, I do like a little simulation and a simplified positioning system: 13th Age I think offers a good example of the kinds of systems I like, though I’m not fond of rolling tons of dice in my damage roll. Actually, I’m not fond of HP at all, which is another reason I prefer WEGs SWRPG.
My impression from running a few games of FFGs SWRPG, and also from watching a few online games, is that the best way to game the system is to overspecialize at character creation, and then to use your best skill whenever possible, fishing for those Triumph symbols in every roll. Even players who aren’t generally min-maxers catch on to this pretty quickly and will avoid even making difficult rolls if they’re worried about how I could spend those Threat/Dispair symbols. Additionally, even though it’s a dice pool system, the fact that you’re playing with two different axis of results means that rolls can be very swingy, which again plays against my preferences. Lastly each roll can take some time to interpret, and while determining success or failure is simple, meting out advantage and disadvantage is ways that are proportional, consistent, and thematically appropriate takes a lot of experience.
But as I’ve said I’m largely alone on these boards in my complaints. If you’re the kind of Narrative player that enjoys crafting the story from the dice results, then this is definitely your game. If you like Narrative games with more predictable outcomes and player control (like Blades in the Dark) you may want to try something else.
It's fun. I don't really like D&D as a general apathy towards that style of gaming (I suppose I lack the ability to commit that much time and be that relaxed to appreciate it), and the most fun I've ever had with the format would be in d20 modern years ago.
That being said, in Saga Edition, I had a "casual double-agent character" who did the following (and more):
Use a pet Ysalamir (I think everyone else called it "Fuzzy", he wasn't one for pet names) to deny a pair of Dark Jedi the ability to whip their lighsabers back into their hands.
Recruited another dark Jedi, a Twi'lek, into a budding mercenary company posing as nice, friendly people (this matters later).
Helped a few goody-two-shoes (I mean that in the most complimentary fashion) amateur Republican commandos, including an Ewok Jedi (not my idea) compel the crew of an Imperial Nebulon-B frigate to abandon ship (I believe via a combination of threatening to use nerve gas, and killing everyone else who wised up to us not having nerve gas) so it could be seized by the Republican Navy (I suppose they wanted more of them).
Dressed said ex-dark Jedi as a Republican naval pilot, allowing her to commandeer a Y-Wing, and fire a pair of torpedoes inside said frigate's hangar, detonating ammunition stores and destroying the whole 300-meter-long frigate, along with its new crew (for the sake of "the balance of power"), to the dismay of my compatriots.
Saving said goody-two-shoes (they were really stand-up guys, I don't give them enough credit) from a Sith mind-control network by virtue of being the only one unaffected thanks to the ysalamir (best investment my character ever made), while they were trying to pull their own brains out their ears with pliers.
Stopped the above conspiracy of Dark Jedi by destroying their base of operations, a dark Jedi children's creche, by converting a TIE Fighter (mercenary company property) into a force-repellent guided missile via a AI flight routine, a sacrificial ysalamir, and a cockpit's worth of baradium explosive. You know the Dark Jedi master tried to throw it. You know he did. I'm sure he was quite surprised. Though admittedly we did collapse an entire fortress worth of dark Jedi apprentices, which said goody-two-shoes were extremely unhappy with despite explaining everything to them well in advance, in character.
Ferried a personal "gift" from another Dark Jedi, since my character was the only one who could safely transport it (and refused to open it, because Jerec didn't seem like the kind of man to be crossed) to an elite gathering of movers and shakers, upon which the recipient opened it and I'm pretty sure had their brain turned to mush.
Meeting Lando Calrissian at said engagement (swoon)
All in all, in was a highly successful game, and some of the most fun I've had. At least for my characters. Totally material for a typical B-grade pulp novel churned out by Michael Stackpole or the like, I bet.
It goes to show that you can have a blast with any system you play. I play a lot of D&D by default simply because of its popularity, and FFG’s SWRPG is in that same realm for me. I’m gonna pick up Scum & Villiany (thanks for the point out) to replace the Blades in the Dark game I had planned with my friends while I’m visiting for the holidays.
In the mean time I’m rereading the original Thrawn trilogy. The 20th anniversary edition has an audiobook recorded for it that’s pretty great minus the Leia voice. It’s funny to look back at this and see where the series has gone on to. I’ll write more about it later, but because you reminded me I gotta say how much I hate the concept of the Ysalamiri. I just think it’s such a lazy way to challenge Luke. Granted I understand the desire to provide a challenge without diminishing the character or the power of the Force, but I think there could be so many other ways to do so. Also, similar to D&D, having the anti-magic bubble is such poor design: “you know that cool thing that makes you special and lets you break the rules? Yeah fuck that, be normal for a while and see how that feels.” It’s far from my only complaint with the series, but it’s one of the big-picture universe affecting plot hooks that I’d instantly veto as an IP holder.
It goes to show that you can have a blast with any system you play. I play a lot of D&D by default simply because of its popularity, and FFG’s SWRPG is in that same realm for me. I’m gonna pick up Scum & Villiany (thanks for the point out) to replace the Blades in the Dark game I had planned with my friends while I’m visiting for the holidays.
In the mean time I’m rereading the original Thrawn trilogy. The 20th anniversary edition has an audiobook recorded for it that’s pretty great minus the Leia voice. It’s funny to look back at this and see where the series has gone on to. I’ll write more about it later, but because you reminded me I gotta say how much I hate the concept of the Ysalamiri. I just think it’s such a lazy way to challenge Luke. Granted I understand the desire to provide a challenge without diminishing the character or the power of the Force, but I think there could be so many other ways to do so. Also, similar to D&D, having the anti-magic bubble is such poor design: “you know that cool thing that makes you special and lets you break the rules? Yeah fuck that, be normal for a while and see how that feels.” It’s far from my only complaint with the series, but it’s one of the big-picture universe affecting plot hooks that I’d instantly veto as an IP holder.
I think I have that same audio book on Audible, if it's the same narrator doing Leia's voice.
That opinion is very common. I didn't mind it, because I was approaching it from the aspect of "well, The Force(tm) is rather broken. God exists, is tribal, and likes to meddle in events," which is how I've always seen it. But it's entirely possible that I don't get that which is Star Wars, and am enjoying-it-the-wrong-way. On the other hand, in Saga Edition, The Schwarz is literally broken. At least in the edition we used. In large part because of how it inherits an old D&D system of handling the mass, movement, and physics of objects. A force-propelled "medium sized box" moving at the lowest speed it could possibly do so does more damage than a blaster rifle. The minimum level of capability to use "force push" can slam a full-sized landspeeder into someone as though it were being driven at less than top speed. There's no reason to carry blasters at all when you can just drop any sort of mechanical construction on your enemies.
It's not surprising that one of the first supplement books includes ysalamiri. The setting needed it, unless it was going to become "Jedi A-Team, the game, and no other options." Why wouldn't you play the Jedi A-Team? Variety is the spice of life the universe. It's possible this was corrected in later revisions. But I completely understand the opposition to it thematically. I just wasn't interested in playing a Cheddar Monk personally. Much more fun to use them, as it turns out. Appeal to their sense of duty, and their self interest. Let them see why your path is, if not the right one, the most practical and beneficial one. Right up to the point where a flying bomb blows up a Dark Jedi factory-barracks.
EDIT: Also, it was way too easy to create a middle-level Sith-wannabe chapter boss who could telepathically dominate an entire city block. Seriously, that was a flaw, and the sort of shit I'd veto in a heartbeat: mind control.
It goes to show that you can have a blast with any system you play. I play a lot of D&D by default simply because of its popularity, and FFG’s SWRPG is in that same realm for me. I’m gonna pick up Scum & Villiany (thanks for the point out) to replace the Blades in the Dark game I had planned with my friends while I’m visiting for the holidays.
In the mean time I’m rereading the original Thrawn trilogy. The 20th anniversary edition has an audiobook recorded for it that’s pretty great minus the Leia voice. It’s funny to look back at this and see where the series has gone on to. I’ll write more about it later, but because you reminded me I gotta say how much I hate the concept of the Ysalamiri. I just think it’s such a lazy way to challenge Luke. Granted I understand the desire to provide a challenge without diminishing the character or the power of the Force, but I think there could be so many other ways to do so. Also, similar to D&D, having the anti-magic bubble is such poor design: “you know that cool thing that makes you special and lets you break the rules? Yeah fuck that, be normal for a while and see how that feels.” It’s far from my only complaint with the series, but it’s one of the big-picture universe affecting plot hooks that I’d instantly veto as an IP holder.
I think I have that same audio book on Audible, if it's the same narrator doing Leia's voice.
That opinion is very common. I didn't mind it, because I was approaching it from the aspect of "well, The Force(tm) is rather broken. God exists, is tribal, and likes to meddle in events," which is how I've always seen it. But it's entirely possible that I don't get that which is Star Wars, and am enjoying-it-the-wrong-way. On the other hand, in Saga Edition, The Schwarz is literally broken. At least in the edition we used. In large part because of how it inherits an old D&D system of handling the mass, movement, and physics of objects. A force-propelled "medium sized box" moving at the lowest speed it could possibly do so does more damage than a blaster rifle. The minimum level of capability to use "force push" can slam a full-sized landspeeder into someone as though it were being driven at less than top speed. There's no reason to carry blasters at all when you can just drop any sort of mechanical construction on your enemies.
It's not surprising that one of the first supplement books includes ysalamiri. The setting needed it, unless it was going to become "Jedi A-Team, the game, and no other options." Why wouldn't you play the Jedi A-Team? Variety is the spice of life the universe. It's possible this was corrected in later revisions. But I completely understand the opposition to it thematically. I just wasn't interested in playing a Cheddar Monk personally. Much more fun to use them, as it turns out. Appeal to their sense of duty, and their self interest. Let them see why your path is, if not the right one, the most practical and beneficial one. Right up to the point where a flying bomb blows up a Dark Jedi factory-barracks.
EDIT: Also, it was way too easy to create a middle-level Sith-wannabe chapter boss who could telepathically dominate an entire city block. Seriously, that was a flaw, and the sort of shit I'd veto in a heartbeat: mind control.
The Force stuff was quite strong, but IIRC mechanically the other options were stronger, especially when considering the condition track system that Saga introduced. Intended as a way of debuffing enemies, when optimized you could just ignore enemy hitpoints and shout them into submission. It somehow felt balanced where the Jedi had neat utility tricks but everyone could keep up in being relevant. I vaguely recall playing a Droid being somehow crazy good too?
FFG solves this problem by just making a game line where everyone is a member of the Jedi A-Team but I like it when the party is varied, it's always crazy to me when there's a guy who wants to pretend to be Zuckuss but I want to support that weird bug dream lol.
It goes to show that you can have a blast with any system you play. I play a lot of D&D by default simply because of its popularity, and FFG’s SWRPG is in that same realm for me. I’m gonna pick up Scum & Villiany (thanks for the point out) to replace the Blades in the Dark game I had planned with my friends while I’m visiting for the holidays.
In the mean time I’m rereading the original Thrawn trilogy. The 20th anniversary edition has an audiobook recorded for it that’s pretty great minus the Leia voice. It’s funny to look back at this and see where the series has gone on to. I’ll write more about it later, but because you reminded me I gotta say how much I hate the concept of the Ysalamiri. I just think it’s such a lazy way to challenge Luke. Granted I understand the desire to provide a challenge without diminishing the character or the power of the Force, but I think there could be so many other ways to do so. Also, similar to D&D, having the anti-magic bubble is such poor design: “you know that cool thing that makes you special and lets you break the rules? Yeah fuck that, be normal for a while and see how that feels.” It’s far from my only complaint with the series, but it’s one of the big-picture universe affecting plot hooks that I’d instantly veto as an IP holder.
I think I have that same audio book on Audible, if it's the same narrator doing Leia's voice.
That opinion is very common. I didn't mind it, because I was approaching it from the aspect of "well, The Force(tm) is rather broken. God exists, is tribal, and likes to meddle in events," which is how I've always seen it. But it's entirely possible that I don't get that which is Star Wars, and am enjoying-it-the-wrong-way. On the other hand, in Saga Edition, The Schwarz is literally broken. At least in the edition we used. In large part because of how it inherits an old D&D system of handling the mass, movement, and physics of objects. A force-propelled "medium sized box" moving at the lowest speed it could possibly do so does more damage than a blaster rifle. The minimum level of capability to use "force push" can slam a full-sized landspeeder into someone as though it were being driven at less than top speed. There's no reason to carry blasters at all when you can just drop any sort of mechanical construction on your enemies.
It's not surprising that one of the first supplement books includes ysalamiri. The setting needed it, unless it was going to become "Jedi A-Team, the game, and no other options." Why wouldn't you play the Jedi A-Team? Variety is the spice of life the universe. It's possible this was corrected in later revisions. But I completely understand the opposition to it thematically. I just wasn't interested in playing a Cheddar Monk personally. Much more fun to use them, as it turns out. Appeal to their sense of duty, and their self interest. Let them see why your path is, if not the right one, the most practical and beneficial one. Right up to the point where a flying bomb blows up a Dark Jedi factory-barracks.
EDIT: Also, it was way too easy to create a middle-level Sith-wannabe chapter boss who could telepathically dominate an entire city block. Seriously, that was a flaw, and the sort of shit I'd veto in a heartbeat: mind control.
The Force stuff was quite strong, but IIRC mechanically the other options were stronger, especially when considering the condition track system that Saga introduced. Intended as a way of debuffing enemies, when optimized you could just ignore enemy hitpoints and shout them into submission. It somehow felt balanced where the Jedi had neat utility tricks but everyone could keep up in being relevant. I vaguely recall playing a Droid being somehow crazy good too?
FFG solves this problem by just making a game line where everyone is a member of the Jedi A-Team but I like it when the party is varied, it's always crazy to me when there's a guy who wants to pretend to be Zuckuss but I want to support that weird bug dream lol.
Droids were honestly most vauable because of immunity to mind-control bullshit, in my case. Like I said, the Schwarz is all well and good, but mechanically, broken to the point where even unintentionally you'll break the game.
Oh yeah, don’t let me or anyone else tell you you’re enjoying Star Wars the wrong way. I’d never played the d20 versions myself but IIRC Jedi being broken AF was the standard for all games in that era. And while I like the hijinks of Force users in the modern RPGs and sequel trilogy so far, I liked it best in how it was portrayed in the original trilogy: as something mysterious, and prophetic. A powerful ally as Yoda says, not as unkillable god monks from the prequels (and other EU sources). So yeah my comments weren’t to say that you were doing something wrong, but rather I didn’t like the underlying mechanics of the fiction.
I always found the ysalamiri and the vornskr relationship made sense and was the type of thing I actually expected to crop up every so often in the setting given what we were told about the Force: it was an energy field that connected all living things and did not seem to require an intelligent mind to access or some level of spiritual awakening. You've pretty much put a major fundamental connection between all living things and have some people who are strong in the Force due to family genetics. It is pretty easy to go from there to X creature evolved a method to sense others through this energy field and all the variations you'd see coming out from that in the natural world.
It may make it a bit less of a mysterious and prophetic Force, but I preferred that direction for the development of the Force (something that has rules and limitations) over it turning into "MAGIC" or "A Wizard Did It" as later takes on the Force ended up doing (becoming a crutch for the writers to handwave away problems or create new ones for the heroes to solve. You can still retain some mystery, but delving deeper into a setting via an expanded universe, some things need to be defined in what they can and cannot do (even if just known to the writers) or you end up with narrative incoherence.
I also thought that the ysalamiri were helpful to underlie Thrawn's misunderstanding of the Force and Jedi. He views it exclusively as a power source that is akin to electricity and has well defined capabilities partially because of creatures like the ysalamiri. What causes him lots of problems is that through the Force, many other things are possible and the prophetic impacts and "be in the right place at the right time if you listen to the guidance of the Force" wreaks havoc with his plans and ultimately brings about his downfall. People don't do the thing that they obviously should be doing because they allow the prophetic elements of the Force to guide them (essentially have achieved a greater degree of spiritual enlightenment and understanding of the galaxy than the very rational Thrawn) and this allows them to do things that he ends up being completely blind to.
The thing I always found interesting in the Thrawn trilogy is that while Thrawn had a decent understanding of Luke and his capabilities, how to counter them, etc., the one who he was mostly blind to was Leia and her interactions/guidance from the Force. Leia does some stuff in the book that is pretty much insane given the context of the situation, but she has a feeling (which I can't remember if it is made explicit) may be guidance from the Force and this is what leads to Thawn's downfall in the end.
So to summarize, I like the greater definition in limits of the Force while maintaining some of the more ephemeral prophetic and guidance elements of the Force. I feel that the subsequent revisions which turn the Force into more of a magic system that people use to cast spells to be the far greater perversion of the original concept which seemed the core of the Force was essentially that by listening to the universe, you could be in the place that you needed to be in order to do what needed to be done. Where I hoped there would be more development is the interactions where you have two people with conflicting goals and objectives both attuned to the Force and allowing it to guide them to being in the right place at the right time. Is there an agenda of the Force where there is one overall destiny it is working toward, or is it more individual guidance so each person would be guided to what they needed to achieve their goals.
It goes to show that you can have a blast with any system you play. I play a lot of D&D by default simply because of its popularity, and FFG’s SWRPG is in that same realm for me. I’m gonna pick up Scum & Villiany (thanks for the point out) to replace the Blades in the Dark game I had planned with my friends while I’m visiting for the holidays.
In the mean time I’m rereading the original Thrawn trilogy. The 20th anniversary edition has an audiobook recorded for it that’s pretty great minus the Leia voice. It’s funny to look back at this and see where the series has gone on to. I’ll write more about it later, but because you reminded me I gotta say how much I hate the concept of the Ysalamiri. I just think it’s such a lazy way to challenge Luke. Granted I understand the desire to provide a challenge without diminishing the character or the power of the Force, but I think there could be so many other ways to do so. Also, similar to D&D, having the anti-magic bubble is such poor design: “you know that cool thing that makes you special and lets you break the rules? Yeah fuck that, be normal for a while and see how that feels.” It’s far from my only complaint with the series, but it’s one of the big-picture universe affecting plot hooks that I’d instantly veto as an IP holder.
I think I have that same audio book on Audible, if it's the same narrator doing Leia's voice.
That opinion is very common. I didn't mind it, because I was approaching it from the aspect of "well, The Force(tm) is rather broken. God exists, is tribal, and likes to meddle in events," which is how I've always seen it. But it's entirely possible that I don't get that which is Star Wars, and am enjoying-it-the-wrong-way. On the other hand, in Saga Edition, The Schwarz is literally broken. At least in the edition we used. In large part because of how it inherits an old D&D system of handling the mass, movement, and physics of objects. A force-propelled "medium sized box" moving at the lowest speed it could possibly do so does more damage than a blaster rifle. The minimum level of capability to use "force push" can slam a full-sized landspeeder into someone as though it were being driven at less than top speed. There's no reason to carry blasters at all when you can just drop any sort of mechanical construction on your enemies.
It's not surprising that one of the first supplement books includes ysalamiri. The setting needed it, unless it was going to become "Jedi A-Team, the game, and no other options." Why wouldn't you play the Jedi A-Team? Variety is the spice of life the universe. It's possible this was corrected in later revisions. But I completely understand the opposition to it thematically. I just wasn't interested in playing a Cheddar Monk personally. Much more fun to use them, as it turns out. Appeal to their sense of duty, and their self interest. Let them see why your path is, if not the right one, the most practical and beneficial one. Right up to the point where a flying bomb blows up a Dark Jedi factory-barracks.
EDIT: Also, it was way too easy to create a middle-level Sith-wannabe chapter boss who could telepathically dominate an entire city block. Seriously, that was a flaw, and the sort of shit I'd veto in a heartbeat: mind control.
The Force stuff was quite strong, but IIRC mechanically the other options were stronger, especially when considering the condition track system that Saga introduced. Intended as a way of debuffing enemies, when optimized you could just ignore enemy hitpoints and shout them into submission. It somehow felt balanced where the Jedi had neat utility tricks but everyone could keep up in being relevant. I vaguely recall playing a Droid being somehow crazy good too?
FFG solves this problem by just making a game line where everyone is a member of the Jedi A-Team but I like it when the party is varied, it's always crazy to me when there's a guy who wants to pretend to be Zuckuss but I want to support that weird bug dream lol.
They also solve it with XP costs. Want more than one die for your force powers? Be prepared to spend XP all the way to the end of your talent tree. And the force powers themselves are a mini-talent tree.
Basically if you started two characters, a Jedi and a Soldier and hit them with the same XP, by the time the Jedi has a decent patch of skills, powers and talents off their specialty trees the soldier is probably close to resembling a commando from Republic Commandos.
I watched the 1st season of Dirk Gently recently and Dirk is pretty close to a Jedi. It's way more whimsical than Star Wars, but the general idea of being carried along by something bigger and unseen matches well. I'd like some Star Wars media with that leaf on the wind kind of Jedi. Not the best swordsman ever, or the most powerful rock lifter, or the greatest at mind fucking. Just a decent person trusting in the Force.
Come to think of it, Deadpool 2 did the take I've been craving with Domino. Just do that, with a lightsaber.
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Rebels?
Or actually the comics Knights of the old republic
Zayne carrick is kinda bad at the force
Rebels?
Or actually the comics Knights of the old republic
Zayne carrick is kinda bad at the force
It's more about them being unattached to a cause than being less powerful. Rebels is about rebels. I want a wandering ronin that just goes from planet to planet on the whims of the Force, getting into minor shit like Bill Bixby.
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And this isn't a bad thing! I enjoy both, but they are entirely different beasts.
In D&D, conflict resolution of any sort is usually resolved by rolling a d20 and adding modifiers. In DnD, it's Pass/Fail. You hit or you miss. YOu find the trap or you don't.
In FFG Star Wars, they have their own dice system. You can fail to do what you want, but have something happen that still turns the situation in your favor. Likewise, you could succeed at a task, but potentially introduce a setback you didn't foresee.
For example, say you're shooting at someone. You roll the dice and all told you have zero successes, but 4 advantage. You miss but you decide with the 4 advantage your blaster fire forces the NPC into an unfavorable defensive position (perhaps the shots destroyed the heavy boxes he was hiding behind) granting your friends a bonus dice to hit.
Or, you rolled a success but 3 threat to find the mcguffin in the vault you were sent to retrieve. You found it, but it was trapped! An alarm goes off and now everyone knows a robbery is in process!
I hope this helps.
I personally am still fond of WEG's, but that may be because I played it the most and have a huge bank of goodwill built up towards it.
It's a good system. Just make sure your players want to buy into the narrative aspect of the game. If they are more beer and pretzel type gamers, it may not fit your table.
WEG Star Wars is also real good, but it has a lot more fiddly bits and is tougher to run on the fly. There are charts and tables for everything, which can slow things down if you're not hyper familiar with everything.
RPG Context: WEG Star Wars was my first roleplaying game. I asked my parents to buy it for me when I saw it in the gift shop as we exited Star Tours. I was seven. I've been playing these games on and off for over thirty years.
Star Wars Context: One of my children is named Revan.
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I pretty much named my son after a Battlemech and my wife has never caught on.
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Your story about Star Tours is EXACTLY how I found the WEG Star Wars game. I think I might have been a few years older, I think I was in 6th or 7th grade.
Also, don't know about you, but I am HELLA HYPED about the Disney Star Wars ride opening next year. HELLA HYPED.
Who would object to a son named Maruader IIc?
I was just at Disney World with my kids and we could see parts of the new Star Wars Land from the Slinky Dog Dash in Toy Story Land. It looked super cool, but I'm glad we won't be up for returning to Disney for a few years. They're currently estimating up to 10 hour waits for the new rides when that area first opens
There's so many rumors on how they're going to handle it. One thing I read recently was that they're going to control admission separately from the other Disney stuff, and only allow visitors access during certain time windows.
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That said, very jealous of anyone getting there sooner rather than later. What we could see looked great, and the stuff they already have there like the Jedi Training for kids is super well done.
"I'll have you know that 'Urbanmech' is name with a lot of family history."
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(Incidentally, TLJ is my all-time favourite Star Wars movie. Yes, even better than ESB.)
It's based on a D&D engine so very easy for a D&D group to pick up and does the best job of making everyone useful, rather than Jedi best at everything.
Edit: [Expletive deleted] why are you starting TLJ arguments up again? I was just looking forward to some nice Star Wars RPG chat
Some people just want to see the world burn?
Right? Urbanmech is too silly though.
But my actual last name is a different spelling, but pretty much pronouced HAWK. And I named my kid after a mythical bird that rises from the ashes (and not a fuckin' city in Arizona, nosy lady at the supermarket)
Anyway.... back to Wars amongst the Stars. Or at least the fan base.
That said I still crack those books open for ideas every time I run a SW game.
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But the FFG games are more modern and sexy and I think more narrative in its design. Also, I think the FFG games will be supported more in the future than a 30th anniversary reprinting of the WEG systems. I liked SAGA edition too... some of the concepts that ended up as being core to D&D's 4th edition were introduced in SAGA edition. But I would recommend the FFG system for someone starting to play Star Wars RPG's now.
When they call me "Trashcan" they mean it with love and affection.
I mean, you could shorten it to Mads. That name seemed to work out okay for some.
There are specific rules for Sabaac in the Suns of Fortune supplement for FFG's Star Wars, having a gambler in the party I GM for currently, I'm well aware of them.
I don't think there were specific rules for it in WEG or WoTC Star Wars, but I could just be forgetting them.
Edit: I don't deny that WEG's rules systems feel very outdated based in the modern world.
My impression from running a few games of FFGs SWRPG, and also from watching a few online games, is that the best way to game the system is to overspecialize at character creation, and then to use your best skill whenever possible, fishing for those Triumph symbols in every roll. Even players who aren’t generally min-maxers catch on to this pretty quickly and will avoid even making difficult rolls if they’re worried about how I could spend those Threat/Dispair symbols. Additionally, even though it’s a dice pool system, the fact that you’re playing with two different axis of results means that rolls can be very swingy, which again plays against my preferences. Lastly each roll can take some time to interpret, and while determining success or failure is simple, meting out advantage and disadvantage is ways that are proportional, consistent, and thematically appropriate takes a lot of experience.
But as I’ve said I’m largely alone on these boards in my complaints. If you’re the kind of Narrative player that enjoys crafting the story from the dice results, then this is definitely your game. If you like Narrative games with more predictable outcomes and player control (like Blades in the Dark) you may want to try something else.
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It's fun. I don't really like D&D as a general apathy towards that style of gaming (I suppose I lack the ability to commit that much time and be that relaxed to appreciate it), and the most fun I've ever had with the format would be in d20 modern years ago.
That being said, in Saga Edition, I had a "casual double-agent character" who did the following (and more):
All in all, in was a highly successful game, and some of the most fun I've had. At least for my characters. Totally material for a typical B-grade pulp novel churned out by Michael Stackpole or the like, I bet.
In the mean time I’m rereading the original Thrawn trilogy. The 20th anniversary edition has an audiobook recorded for it that’s pretty great minus the Leia voice. It’s funny to look back at this and see where the series has gone on to. I’ll write more about it later, but because you reminded me I gotta say how much I hate the concept of the Ysalamiri. I just think it’s such a lazy way to challenge Luke. Granted I understand the desire to provide a challenge without diminishing the character or the power of the Force, but I think there could be so many other ways to do so. Also, similar to D&D, having the anti-magic bubble is such poor design: “you know that cool thing that makes you special and lets you break the rules? Yeah fuck that, be normal for a while and see how that feels.” It’s far from my only complaint with the series, but it’s one of the big-picture universe affecting plot hooks that I’d instantly veto as an IP holder.
I think I have that same audio book on Audible, if it's the same narrator doing Leia's voice.
That opinion is very common. I didn't mind it, because I was approaching it from the aspect of "well, The Force(tm) is rather broken. God exists, is tribal, and likes to meddle in events," which is how I've always seen it. But it's entirely possible that I don't get that which is Star Wars, and am enjoying-it-the-wrong-way. On the other hand, in Saga Edition, The Schwarz is literally broken. At least in the edition we used. In large part because of how it inherits an old D&D system of handling the mass, movement, and physics of objects. A force-propelled "medium sized box" moving at the lowest speed it could possibly do so does more damage than a blaster rifle. The minimum level of capability to use "force push" can slam a full-sized landspeeder into someone as though it were being driven at less than top speed. There's no reason to carry blasters at all when you can just drop any sort of mechanical construction on your enemies.
It's not surprising that one of the first supplement books includes ysalamiri. The setting needed it, unless it was going to become "Jedi A-Team, the game, and no other options." Why wouldn't you play the Jedi A-Team? Variety is the spice of life the universe. It's possible this was corrected in later revisions. But I completely understand the opposition to it thematically. I just wasn't interested in playing a Cheddar Monk personally. Much more fun to use them, as it turns out. Appeal to their sense of duty, and their self interest. Let them see why your path is, if not the right one, the most practical and beneficial one. Right up to the point where a flying bomb blows up a Dark Jedi factory-barracks.
EDIT: Also, it was way too easy to create a middle-level Sith-wannabe chapter boss who could telepathically dominate an entire city block. Seriously, that was a flaw, and the sort of shit I'd veto in a heartbeat: mind control.
The WEG SW is also fun but devolves into dice buckets and rocket tag relatively quickly
I played very briefly an Ex3 SW hack though and that kicked arse
The Force stuff was quite strong, but IIRC mechanically the other options were stronger, especially when considering the condition track system that Saga introduced. Intended as a way of debuffing enemies, when optimized you could just ignore enemy hitpoints and shout them into submission. It somehow felt balanced where the Jedi had neat utility tricks but everyone could keep up in being relevant. I vaguely recall playing a Droid being somehow crazy good too?
FFG solves this problem by just making a game line where everyone is a member of the Jedi A-Team but I like it when the party is varied, it's always crazy to me when there's a guy who wants to pretend to be Zuckuss but I want to support that weird bug dream lol.
Droids were honestly most vauable because of immunity to mind-control bullshit, in my case. Like I said, the Schwarz is all well and good, but mechanically, broken to the point where even unintentionally you'll break the game.
It may make it a bit less of a mysterious and prophetic Force, but I preferred that direction for the development of the Force (something that has rules and limitations) over it turning into "MAGIC" or "A Wizard Did It" as later takes on the Force ended up doing (becoming a crutch for the writers to handwave away problems or create new ones for the heroes to solve. You can still retain some mystery, but delving deeper into a setting via an expanded universe, some things need to be defined in what they can and cannot do (even if just known to the writers) or you end up with narrative incoherence.
I also thought that the ysalamiri were helpful to underlie Thrawn's misunderstanding of the Force and Jedi. He views it exclusively as a power source that is akin to electricity and has well defined capabilities partially because of creatures like the ysalamiri. What causes him lots of problems is that through the Force, many other things are possible and the prophetic impacts and "be in the right place at the right time if you listen to the guidance of the Force" wreaks havoc with his plans and ultimately brings about his downfall. People don't do the thing that they obviously should be doing because they allow the prophetic elements of the Force to guide them (essentially have achieved a greater degree of spiritual enlightenment and understanding of the galaxy than the very rational Thrawn) and this allows them to do things that he ends up being completely blind to.
The thing I always found interesting in the Thrawn trilogy is that while Thrawn had a decent understanding of Luke and his capabilities, how to counter them, etc., the one who he was mostly blind to was Leia and her interactions/guidance from the Force. Leia does some stuff in the book that is pretty much insane given the context of the situation, but she has a feeling (which I can't remember if it is made explicit) may be guidance from the Force and this is what leads to Thawn's downfall in the end.
So to summarize, I like the greater definition in limits of the Force while maintaining some of the more ephemeral prophetic and guidance elements of the Force. I feel that the subsequent revisions which turn the Force into more of a magic system that people use to cast spells to be the far greater perversion of the original concept which seemed the core of the Force was essentially that by listening to the universe, you could be in the place that you needed to be in order to do what needed to be done. Where I hoped there would be more development is the interactions where you have two people with conflicting goals and objectives both attuned to the Force and allowing it to guide them to being in the right place at the right time. Is there an agenda of the Force where there is one overall destiny it is working toward, or is it more individual guidance so each person would be guided to what they needed to achieve their goals.
They also solve it with XP costs. Want more than one die for your force powers? Be prepared to spend XP all the way to the end of your talent tree. And the force powers themselves are a mini-talent tree.
Basically if you started two characters, a Jedi and a Soldier and hit them with the same XP, by the time the Jedi has a decent patch of skills, powers and talents off their specialty trees the soldier is probably close to resembling a commando from Republic Commandos.
Come to think of it, Deadpool 2 did the take I've been craving with Domino. Just do that, with a lightsaber.
Or actually the comics Knights of the old republic
Zayne carrick is kinda bad at the force
It's more about them being unattached to a cause than being less powerful. Rebels is about rebels. I want a wandering ronin that just goes from planet to planet on the whims of the Force, getting into minor shit like Bill Bixby.
For all the shit Matthew Stover gets, he’s still an amazing writer, especially for Star Wars.
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