I mean, to be fair, Kylo lying to Rey about her parentage wouldn't exactly be a stretch. Guy's kind of an asshole.
That would ruin the whole scene. He seemed like he was being genuine for once in his life. It was one of the best parts of TLJ.
It also builds on what Rey sees in the cave. We can assume she was looking for her parents or who she is and all she sees is herself, because that's who she is, that's what she is, she's Rey.
Isn't it funny how so-called Dark Side caves show a person exactly what they need to see?
Well the dark side is just a balance of the force of the "light" its giving in to emotion basically. One could say its not evil specifically just letting it control you is evil, so it can still have truth as anyone who has ever been super pissed off and told someone really how you feel can attest to.
Though I can't recall if the dark side is specifically said to be deceptive in the star wars franchise, or if its just the practioners of it. Like Palpatine did show Anakin Padme in danger, he just held back that it was because of Anakin being a dick bag...
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I totally want that opening in the trailer to be close to the ending of the movie.
I want Kylo to have shot down Rey on Tattooine because they are racing towards some lost skywalker mcguffin thing. And kylo being a stupid dipshit tries to run her down with his fighter and gets it cut the fuck up and now our battle begins in earnest.
Say what you will about the prequel movies, but they did have some pretty awesome lightsaber fights. Between them and what we've seen from stuff like SWTOR trailers and Clone Wars cartoons... the lightsaber fights in this new trilogy have been garbo other than MAYBE the one after Snoke dies. I get there's basically two people left in the galaxy that give a shit about lightsabers anymore and are both shoddily trained, but having movies about force users and not having an awesome fight scene or two is pretty wasteful.
Yes, it makes sense for the setting... and yet, if you make a samurai movie and don't have any cool duels, I'd be just as pissed off.
Oh my God the TFA one in the snow is so unbelievably good. The setting, where those characters are and what it means and what they're fighting for! Rey is struggling, she's out matched but she just saw her friend possibly die Kylo Ren is bleeding, smacking himself in the wound and trying his hardest to overpower this plucky young woman who doesn't have any business going toe to toe with him. They're gritting their teeth and cutting down trees as they swing wildly to murder the other person.
The prequel lightsaber fights are all so bad! They have no soul. There's no grit, no blood, it's too clean. It doesn't feel like there are stakes when they're doing a carefully choreographed ballet that goes on forever in a sterile CGI environment. The Obi-Wan vs Anakin one comes close to being good because we care about the characters and what this means in the story. And then it fucking kills itself by going on way too long with too much CGI bullshit!
The best fights are when we care about the characters and the fight is a proxy for their struggles instead of an excuse to pay your animators. How could the Obi-Wan vs Grievous fight ever compare to something like Luke vs Vader on cloud city? The scene on the second death star half of the time their lightsabers aren't even ON!
Star Wars takes place in another galaxy. Certainly there's more potential for stories in it than just Fascists vs. Stagnant Republic and/or Plucky Rebels
Given the current political climate around the world, Fascists vs. Stagnant Republic and/or Plucky Rebels stories might need to be told more.
Black lives matter.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
The more the title sits with me, the more I don't like it, but only because it sounds weird grammatically. "The Rise of Skywalker" just makes my brain itch for some reason.
"Rise of the Skywalkers" sounds much better, but that has its own problems. Because now people are going to say "What do you mean Skywalkers plural???" and that might not even be what the story is about at all.
Skywalker is both the singular and plural of the title?
Like Jedi
I don't, I also didn't like the title at first glance. While 1-9 is supposed to be the Skywalker saga, I don't understand how Rise would be at the final movie. Twilight of the Skywalker.? Gift of the Skywalker?
Vader scene was A+. They nailed the effortless, 1-handed slaughter. I get people want new things but when you’re working inside a franchise like Star Wars you’re gonna get callbacks. It doesn’t seem anymore egregious than the Marvel ones everyone gushes over.
Yeah it's kind of silly to want only new stuff, yet still be going to see Star Wars movies in 201X. Like, you're going to see a movie based in a 40 year old universe. I you don't want to see stuff form past movies, go see a non-Star Wars movie.
Or, people could enjoy the basic setting (cool planets and ships and creatures), but not want to see literally the same characters or have the literally same conflicts in every film.
Star Wars takes place in another galaxy. Certainly there's more potential for stories in it than just Fascists vs. Stagnant Republic and/or Plucky Rebels
I completely understand this feeling.
But we're talking about a movie that chose the setting to be at the height of Vader's power about the Rebellion pulling off the most important heist they've ever done to expose a weakness in the most important weapon the Empire ever built.
To be annoyed at Vader showing up in that context just feels like missing the point.
I'm not annoyed at Vader showing up. It would have been weird if he didn't! It's how he was used. And there's no other reason for basically all of the other fan service aside from "this movie doesn't hold up on it's own, cram it with shit the nerds will like so they don't notice."
And before anyone accuses me of being too cool, I am unashamedly one of those nerds.
I totally want that opening in the trailer to be close to the ending of the movie.
I want Kylo to have shot down Rey on Tattooine because they are racing towards some lost skywalker mcguffin thing. And kylo being a stupid dipshit tries to run her down with his fighter and gets it cut the fuck up and now our battle begins in earnest.
Say what you will about the prequel movies, but they did have some pretty awesome lightsaber fights. Between them and what we've seen from stuff like SWTOR trailers and Clone Wars cartoons... the lightsaber fights in this new trilogy have been garbo other than MAYBE the one after Snoke dies. I get there's basically two people left in the galaxy that give a shit about lightsabers anymore and are both shoddily trained, but having movies about force users and not having an awesome fight scene or two is pretty wasteful.
Yes, it makes sense for the setting... and yet, if you make a samurai movie and don't have any cool duels, I'd be just as pissed off.
The kind of clumsy duel at the end of TFA is actually one of my favorites in the entire series. It lacks all the spinning twirly jumpy nonsense of the prequels and did what mattered: put two interesting characters in opposition to each other.
One of the only images I clearly recall from TFA is Kylo bashing on his wound to fuel all that anger and pain. That’s solid filmmaking, and it didn’t take thirty minutes of riding robots on a lava planet.
People just have to sit back and let the movies wash over them and not put their own personal headcanons into the movies, right? Just go with friends, grab some popcorn, soda, and relax and watch some sci-fi? Maybe some anime mixed in, what with that pose, run, and flip onto the Interceptor?
I still think The Voyage Home (the fourth one, with the whales) was the best Star Wars film.
I thought everyone agreed that the one where the Hutts keep quoting Shakespeare was the best one. Though personally, I go for the one where they shot R2D2 into Endor inside a torpedo while Chewbacca played Amazing Grace on the bagpipes.
Cambiata on
Peace to fashion police, I wear my heart
On my sleeve, let the runway start
Man, I don't get it. Rogue One is in strong contention for my favorite SW movie overall. I thought the Vader scene at the end was a fantastic summation of the entire movie's themes, and a great spectacle at the same time. Opinions really are like assholes, I guess.
I think opposing opinions on Rogue One are both valid. It's a run, exciting and visually stunning Star Wars film that also has some weak characters, feels choppy and has uneven editing and plays the fan-service on thick. I think it's better than any of the prequels and sequel trilogy films.
Vader scene was A+. They nailed the effortless, 1-handed slaughter. I get people want new things but when you’re working inside a franchise like Star Wars you’re gonna get callbacks. It doesn’t seem anymore egregious than the Marvel ones everyone gushes over.
Yeah it's kind of silly to want only new stuff, yet still be going to see Star Wars movies in 201X. Like, you're going to see a movie based in a 40 year old universe. I you don't want to see stuff form past movies, go see a non-Star Wars movie.
Or, people could enjoy the basic setting (cool planets and ships and creatures), but not want to see literally the same characters or have the literally same conflicts in every film.
Star Wars takes place in another galaxy. Certainly there's more potential for stories in it than just Fascists vs. Stagnant Republic and/or Plucky Rebels
I completely understand this feeling.
But we're talking about a movie that chose the setting to be at the height of Vader's power about the Rebellion pulling off the most important heist they've ever done to expose a weakness in the most important weapon the Empire ever built.
To be annoyed at Vader showing up in that context just feels like missing the point.
Ah, well, I was responding to the general statement - that it's silly to expect something new from a setting that was created ~40 years ago - not Rogue One/Solo specifically.
I think it'd be great if the extent of Palpatine in the movie is just Rey opening up an old box and looking at an old lightsaber and hearing the Emperor laugh and then she contemplates it for a moment and closes the box. The idea that he has to be an active 'character' in the movie is silly, he could be as much of a character as Yoda is in Ep 8.
+12
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
I totally want that opening in the trailer to be close to the ending of the movie.
I want Kylo to have shot down Rey on Tattooine because they are racing towards some lost skywalker mcguffin thing. And kylo being a stupid dipshit tries to run her down with his fighter and gets it cut the fuck up and now our battle begins in earnest.
Say what you will about the prequel movies, but they did have some pretty awesome lightsaber fights. Between them and what we've seen from stuff like SWTOR trailers and Clone Wars cartoons... the lightsaber fights in this new trilogy have been garbo other than MAYBE the one after Snoke dies. I get there's basically two people left in the galaxy that give a shit about lightsabers anymore and are both shoddily trained, but having movies about force users and not having an awesome fight scene or two is pretty wasteful.
Yes, it makes sense for the setting... and yet, if you make a samurai movie and don't have any cool duels, I'd be just as pissed off.
The kind of clumsy duel at the end of TFA is actually one of my favorites in the entire series. It lacks all the spinning twirly jumpy nonsense of the prequels and did what mattered: put two interesting characters in opposition to each other.
One of the only images I clearly recall from TFA is Kylo bashing on his wound to fuel all that anger and pain. That’s solid filmmaking, and it didn’t take thirty minutes of riding robots on a lava planet.
I love the part where they're trying to alpha strike the other and they've grabbed each other's sword arms. You can see the colors of both lightsabers flickering on their faces representing the conflict and the tension. They're both tired and struggling, straining to win at any cost. Rey is gritting her teeth she's giving her all to this because losing means dying! It means her friend dies too!
They feel mortal and thus there are stakes. Contrast this to Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon fighting endlessly without tiring against an enemy who has no personality in an elegant dance that only makes sense as a fighting style if all the combatants had practiced each step very carefully.
I think it'd be great if the extent of Palpatine in the movie is just Rey opening up an old box and looking at an old lightsaber and hearing the Emperor laugh and then she contemplates it for a moment and closes the box. The idea that he has to be an active 'character' in the movie is silly, he could be as much of a character as Yoda is in Ep 8.
It would be a hilarious fake out. And from having played Battlefront 2 which supposedly is in Canon of the new movies they even have something that would make this work.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Oh yeah that reminds me: Phasma better be back and she'd better have an actual part this time!!!
Yes she needs to be dealt with again in comically easy fashion and once again sidelined.
She truly is the Boba Fett of 7-9
This is why I really, really hope there's some big twist coming for everyone, like Phasma let Finn continuously get away and took a knee for him several times for a purpose. Gwendolyn Christie and John Boyega are two outstanding actors that have been completely and utterly WASTED in this trilogy so far. Benicio del Toro looked cooler than those two, and he was in the trilogy for maybe 15 minutes! I will be pissed if both remain as Shiny Mid Boss and Token Black Comic Relief for the whole trilogy.
Finn hasn't been wasted. He's been like the heart of the movies so far. Just the everyday every man in star wars that wants to be a hero but can't quite stick the landing here.
I mean Finn was instrumental in getting them to go get Rey in the falcon in TFA, and instrumental in TLJ to showing sometimes you need to just follow and not lead.
Preacher on
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I totally want that opening in the trailer to be close to the ending of the movie.
I want Kylo to have shot down Rey on Tattooine because they are racing towards some lost skywalker mcguffin thing. And kylo being a stupid dipshit tries to run her down with his fighter and gets it cut the fuck up and now our battle begins in earnest.
Say what you will about the prequel movies, but they did have some pretty awesome lightsaber fights. Between them and what we've seen from stuff like SWTOR trailers and Clone Wars cartoons... the lightsaber fights in this new trilogy have been garbo other than MAYBE the one after Snoke dies. I get there's basically two people left in the galaxy that give a shit about lightsabers anymore and are both shoddily trained, but having movies about force users and not having an awesome fight scene or two is pretty wasteful.
Yes, it makes sense for the setting... and yet, if you make a samurai movie and don't have any cool duels, I'd be just as pissed off.
The kind of clumsy duel at the end of TFA is actually one of my favorites in the entire series. It lacks all the spinning twirly jumpy nonsense of the prequels and did what mattered: put two interesting characters in opposition to each other.
One of the only images I clearly recall from TFA is Kylo bashing on his wound to fuel all that anger and pain. That’s solid filmmaking, and it didn’t take thirty minutes of riding robots on a lava planet.
I love the part where they're trying to alpha strike the other and they've grabbed each other's sword arms. You can see the colors of both lightsabers flickering on their faces representing the conflict and the tension. They're both tired and struggling, straining to win at any cost. Rey is gritting her teeth she's giving her all to this because losing means dying! It means her friend dies too!
They feel mortal and thus there are stakes. Contrast this to Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon fighting endlessly without tiring against an enemy who has no personality in an elegant dance that only makes sense as a fighting style if all the combatants had practiced each step very carefully.
I totally want that opening in the trailer to be close to the ending of the movie.
I want Kylo to have shot down Rey on Tattooine because they are racing towards some lost skywalker mcguffin thing. And kylo being a stupid dipshit tries to run her down with his fighter and gets it cut the fuck up and now our battle begins in earnest.
Say what you will about the prequel movies, but they did have some pretty awesome lightsaber fights. Between them and what we've seen from stuff like SWTOR trailers and Clone Wars cartoons... the lightsaber fights in this new trilogy have been garbo other than MAYBE the one after Snoke dies. I get there's basically two people left in the galaxy that give a shit about lightsabers anymore and are both shoddily trained, but having movies about force users and not having an awesome fight scene or two is pretty wasteful.
Yes, it makes sense for the setting... and yet, if you make a samurai movie and don't have any cool duels, I'd be just as pissed off.
Oh my God the TFA one in the snow is so unbelievably good. The setting, where those characters are and what it means and what they're fighting for! Rey is struggling, she's out matched but she just saw her friend possibly die Kylo Ren is bleeding, smacking himself in the wound and trying his hardest to overpower this plucky young woman who doesn't have any business going toe to toe with him. They're gritting their teeth and cutting down trees as they swing wildly to murder the other person.
The prequel lightsaber fights are all so bad! They have no soul. There's no grit, no blood, it's too clean. It doesn't feel like there are stakes when they're doing a carefully choreographed ballet that goes on forever in a sterile CGI environment. The Obi-Wan vs Anakin one comes close to being good because we care about the characters and what this means in the story. And then it fucking kills itself by going on way too long with too much CGI bullshit!
The best fights are when we care about the characters and the fight is a proxy for their struggles instead of an excuse to pay your animators. How could the Obi-Wan vs Grievous fight ever compare to something like Luke vs Vader on cloud city? The scene on the second death star half of the time their lightsabers aren't even ON!
I actually think the best prequel fight is Obi-Wan vs. Maul after Qui-Gonn is killed. It's filmed from (mostly) the side, so you can see what's happening, it's fast and furious, but there's not a lot of unnecessary flourishes. The part where Obi-Wan blocks behind and then in front bang-bang is pretty awesome.
The Obi-Wan/Anakin fight gave us this:
Plus "I have the high ground!" which are both... yuck.
The best fight in the entire series is the final Obi-Wan vs. Maul fight in Rebels, IMO:
It’s weird: I think Rogue One is a more interesting premise and set of characters than Solo, but I’ve also rarely seen a movie so oddly stitched together. I know there’s a reason that Forest Whitaker doesn’t go with the gang, but on screen it just reads as “Well, script says I don’t show up any more, so this is where I stop I guess.” The callbacks to the OT feel like a tour bus pulling over to point out a famous tourist attraction. It feels less like a movie than a smattering of scene ideas that never really got sorted out. Some amazing visuals in the end, but little else left an impression.
On the other hand, every single thing about Solo should actively disinterest me, but it just kept the momentum going well enough that I kind of dug it. Characters are arguably even less logically motivated than in Rogue One, but there’s enough charm and chemistry to float on.
Maybe it was just my expectations of the two. I expected something more impressive from Rogue One and absolutely nothing from Solo except a Donald Glover appearance.
+3
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ShadowenSnores in the morningLoserdomRegistered Userregular
Crazy idea that, I think, sounds cooler at first blush than it actually would be if implemented:
Kylo finds Palpatine's spirit, Palpatine tries to taunt/possess/educate/whatever him...and Kylo, using his ridiculous Force strength, eats his damn ghost.
It’s weird: I think Rogue One is a more interesting premise and set of characters than Solo, but I’ve also rarely seen a movie so oddly stitched together. I know there’s a reason that Forest Whitaker doesn’t go with the gang, but on screen it just reads as “Well, script says I don’t show up any more, so this is where I stop I guess.” The callbacks to the OT feel like a tour bus pulling over to point out a famous tourist attraction. It feels less like a movie than a smattering of scene ideas that never really got sorted out. Some amazing visuals in the end, but little else left an impression.
On the other hand, every single thing about Solo should actively disinterest me, but it just kept the momentum going well enough that I kind of dug it. Characters are arguably even less logically motivated than in Rogue One, but there’s enough charm and chemistry to float on.
Maybe it was just my expectations of the two. I expected something more impressive from Rogue One and absolutely nothing from Solo except a Donald Glover appearance.
IMO, Rogue One just sort of exists until after Jyn's dad dies. I honestly don't remember much until that point. There's the utterly pointless torturing of Bodhi, a fight in the city I guess... the Death Star blowing up whatever planet that was... it just sort of lumbers around for an hour before the push to get the plans.
I really liked Solo, but the guy they got to play Solo was so charasmatic and making the character his own. I could watch a whole trilogy of him smirking his way through star wars.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I totally want that opening in the trailer to be close to the ending of the movie.
I want Kylo to have shot down Rey on Tattooine because they are racing towards some lost skywalker mcguffin thing. And kylo being a stupid dipshit tries to run her down with his fighter and gets it cut the fuck up and now our battle begins in earnest.
Say what you will about the prequel movies, but they did have some pretty awesome lightsaber fights. Between them and what we've seen from stuff like SWTOR trailers and Clone Wars cartoons... the lightsaber fights in this new trilogy have been garbo other than MAYBE the one after Snoke dies. I get there's basically two people left in the galaxy that give a shit about lightsabers anymore and are both shoddily trained, but having movies about force users and not having an awesome fight scene or two is pretty wasteful.
Yes, it makes sense for the setting... and yet, if you make a samurai movie and don't have any cool duels, I'd be just as pissed off.
The kind of clumsy duel at the end of TFA is actually one of my favorites in the entire series. It lacks all the spinning twirly jumpy nonsense of the prequels and did what mattered: put two interesting characters in opposition to each other.
One of the only images I clearly recall from TFA is Kylo bashing on his wound to fuel all that anger and pain. That’s solid filmmaking, and it didn’t take thirty minutes of riding robots on a lava planet.
I love the part where they're trying to alpha strike the other and they've grabbed each other's sword arms. You can see the colors of both lightsabers flickering on their faces representing the conflict and the tension. They're both tired and struggling, straining to win at any cost. Rey is gritting her teeth she's giving her all to this because losing means dying! It means her friend dies too!
They feel mortal and thus there are stakes. Contrast this to Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon fighting endlessly without tiring against an enemy who has no personality in an elegant dance that only makes sense as a fighting style if all the combatants had practiced each step very carefully.
or were using the Force as a guide.
Sure you can say/do that and it's fine as an answer but knowing why doesn't make it look/feel any better to me. Them being elegant combat gods isn't something that's appealing to me. It makes them feel less human and more oddly robotic.
The prequel lightsaber fights have plenty of value to me. I was a middle/high school kid when those came out, I loved that shit. A middle school kid is going to enjoy a well choreographed, acrobatic fight more than two guys yelling and hacking at each other. Plus they brought a lot of new stuff to the table. We had never seen two on one fights or non-standard lightsabers before. Give the prequel fights some credit.
This is the first time I've ever discussed the new Star Wars movies online, but I would be fine if Rey was a Skywalker and really wouldn't care if they twisted some of the things that happened in Episode VIII into a new direction (although I certainly don't expect them to). I personally didn't love VIII but have zero interest in debating it, just didn't do it for me. Count me as someone who would enjoy it if the main series stayed focused on Skywalkers, had Palpatine return as the big bad, and continued to give a solid mix of new and returning characters.
Then let the other spinoffs/trilogies do their own thing however they want to do it.
Oh, and the Vader scene in Rogue One was awesome. That is all.
I just want Finn to be in Rey's new order and not be a clown.
If Skywalker is the new name for Jedi, then the galaxy at large probably named them that after the Luke story spread. Rey's last dealing with Luke was kicking his ass and stealing his books, it doesn't seem right that she'd honor him like that.
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MonwynApathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime.A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered Userregular
Rogue One had way too much fanservice, and it wasn't good fanservice. It was distracting every time it happened.
This is weird
Like, given the period the movie is set in, of course Mon Mothma and Vader and Tarkin are around, they're key players at that point, and none of them have more than like five minutes of screen time
The only thing I found really eye-rolling was Leia and the Tantive IV at the very end, and that's more because it makes exactly zero sense with ANH's opening scene
I will never understand the love for the CG Star Wars series. I've tried to watch them, but I just can't.
TCW and Rebels start off rough, but end incredibly strong. TCW Anakin is by far the best iteration of the character. Ahsoka goes from annoying sidekick to really strong character in her own right. And with Rebels, it all feels like a lovingly dysfunctional family at the end, complete with an asshole droid who makes R2 look like C-3PO.
I just want Finn to be in Rey's new order and not be a clown.
If Skywalker is the new name for Jedi, then the galaxy at large probably named them that after the Luke story spread. Rey's last dealing with Luke was kicking his ass and stealing his books, it doesn't seem right that she'd honor him like that.
kicking his ass?
uh ... I don't think we watched the same movie
+1
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
I totally want that opening in the trailer to be close to the ending of the movie.
I want Kylo to have shot down Rey on Tattooine because they are racing towards some lost skywalker mcguffin thing. And kylo being a stupid dipshit tries to run her down with his fighter and gets it cut the fuck up and now our battle begins in earnest.
Say what you will about the prequel movies, but they did have some pretty awesome lightsaber fights. Between them and what we've seen from stuff like SWTOR trailers and Clone Wars cartoons... the lightsaber fights in this new trilogy have been garbo other than MAYBE the one after Snoke dies. I get there's basically two people left in the galaxy that give a shit about lightsabers anymore and are both shoddily trained, but having movies about force users and not having an awesome fight scene or two is pretty wasteful.
Yes, it makes sense for the setting... and yet, if you make a samurai movie and don't have any cool duels, I'd be just as pissed off.
Oh my God the TFA one in the snow is so unbelievably good. The setting, where those characters are and what it means and what they're fighting for! Rey is struggling, she's out matched but she just saw her friend possibly die Kylo Ren is bleeding, smacking himself in the wound and trying his hardest to overpower this plucky young woman who doesn't have any business going toe to toe with him. They're gritting their teeth and cutting down trees as they swing wildly to murder the other person.
The prequel lightsaber fights are all so bad! They have no soul. There's no grit, no blood, it's too clean. It doesn't feel like there are stakes when they're doing a carefully choreographed ballet that goes on forever in a sterile CGI environment. The Obi-Wan vs Anakin one comes close to being good because we care about the characters and what this means in the story. And then it fucking kills itself by going on way too long with too much CGI bullshit!
The best fights are when we care about the characters and the fight is a proxy for their struggles instead of an excuse to pay your animators. How could the Obi-Wan vs Grievous fight ever compare to something like Luke vs Vader on cloud city? The scene on the second death star half of the time their lightsabers aren't even ON!
I actually think the best prequel fight is Obi-Wan vs. Maul after Qui-Gonn is killed. It's filmed from (mostly) the side, so you can see what's happening, it's fast and furious, but there's not a lot of unnecessary flourishes. The part where Obi-Wan blocks behind and then in front bang-bang is pretty awesome.
The Obi-Wan/Anakin fight gave us this:
Plus "I have the high ground!" which are both... yuck.
The best fight in the entire series is the final Obi-Wan vs. Maul fight in Rebels, IMO:
If Obi-Wan had transitioned into some "fuck you dude" baseball swings or something I'd agree but the fight is still super clean and feels dispassionate when we just saw him lose his cool.
The Obi-Wan/Anakin fight does have laughably bad parts, like when they're climbing the pillar or whatever and just kind of swatting ineffectively at each other but the tension/emotion of the characters and their arcs are in the right spot for the fight to have some meaning regardless even though it goes on so long as to be boring.
I totally want that opening in the trailer to be close to the ending of the movie.
I want Kylo to have shot down Rey on Tattooine because they are racing towards some lost skywalker mcguffin thing. And kylo being a stupid dipshit tries to run her down with his fighter and gets it cut the fuck up and now our battle begins in earnest.
Say what you will about the prequel movies, but they did have some pretty awesome lightsaber fights. Between them and what we've seen from stuff like SWTOR trailers and Clone Wars cartoons... the lightsaber fights in this new trilogy have been garbo other than MAYBE the one after Snoke dies. I get there's basically two people left in the galaxy that give a shit about lightsabers anymore and are both shoddily trained, but having movies about force users and not having an awesome fight scene or two is pretty wasteful.
Yes, it makes sense for the setting... and yet, if you make a samurai movie and don't have any cool duels, I'd be just as pissed off.
Oh my God the TFA one in the snow is so unbelievably good. The setting, where those characters are and what it means and what they're fighting for! Rey is struggling, she's out matched but she just saw her friend possibly die Kylo Ren is bleeding, smacking himself in the wound and trying his hardest to overpower this plucky young woman who doesn't have any business going toe to toe with him. They're gritting their teeth and cutting down trees as they swing wildly to murder the other person.
The prequel lightsaber fights are all so bad! They have no soul. There's no grit, no blood, it's too clean. It doesn't feel like there are stakes when they're doing a carefully choreographed ballet that goes on forever in a sterile CGI environment. The Obi-Wan vs Anakin one comes close to being good because we care about the characters and what this means in the story. And then it fucking kills itself by going on way too long with too much CGI bullshit!
The best fights are when we care about the characters and the fight is a proxy for their struggles instead of an excuse to pay your animators. How could the Obi-Wan vs Grievous fight ever compare to something like Luke vs Vader on cloud city? The scene on the second death star half of the time their lightsabers aren't even ON!
I actually think the best prequel fight is Obi-Wan vs. Maul after Qui-Gonn is killed. It's filmed from (mostly) the side, so you can see what's happening, it's fast and furious, but there's not a lot of unnecessary flourishes. The part where Obi-Wan blocks behind and then in front bang-bang is pretty awesome.
The Obi-Wan/Anakin fight gave us this:
Plus "I have the high ground!" which are both... yuck.
The best fight in the entire series is the final Obi-Wan vs. Maul fight in Rebels, IMO:
I would agree the better fights aren't the flashier ones, but the ones more like a samurai duel... where it felt like there were two warriors who were very talented that constantly sized each other up and wasted little movement.
Which is why as emotional as they are, the fights in the last two movies are disappointing to me... Rey and Kylo are like two kids with their parents' weapons trying to be cool. Just hasn't worked for me so far. Hell, Luke schooled Kylo at the end of TLJ and didn't even have to be there physically.
I totally want that opening in the trailer to be close to the ending of the movie.
I want Kylo to have shot down Rey on Tattooine because they are racing towards some lost skywalker mcguffin thing. And kylo being a stupid dipshit tries to run her down with his fighter and gets it cut the fuck up and now our battle begins in earnest.
Say what you will about the prequel movies, but they did have some pretty awesome lightsaber fights. Between them and what we've seen from stuff like SWTOR trailers and Clone Wars cartoons... the lightsaber fights in this new trilogy have been garbo other than MAYBE the one after Snoke dies. I get there's basically two people left in the galaxy that give a shit about lightsabers anymore and are both shoddily trained, but having movies about force users and not having an awesome fight scene or two is pretty wasteful.
Yes, it makes sense for the setting... and yet, if you make a samurai movie and don't have any cool duels, I'd be just as pissed off.
Oh my God the TFA one in the snow is so unbelievably good. The setting, where those characters are and what it means and what they're fighting for! Rey is struggling, she's out matched but she just saw her friend possibly die Kylo Ren is bleeding, smacking himself in the wound and trying his hardest to overpower this plucky young woman who doesn't have any business going toe to toe with him. They're gritting their teeth and cutting down trees as they swing wildly to murder the other person.
The prequel lightsaber fights are all so bad! They have no soul. There's no grit, no blood, it's too clean. It doesn't feel like there are stakes when they're doing a carefully choreographed ballet that goes on forever in a sterile CGI environment. The Obi-Wan vs Anakin one comes close to being good because we care about the characters and what this means in the story. And then it fucking kills itself by going on way too long with too much CGI bullshit!
The best fights are when we care about the characters and the fight is a proxy for their struggles instead of an excuse to pay your animators. How could the Obi-Wan vs Grievous fight ever compare to something like Luke vs Vader on cloud city? The scene on the second death star half of the time their lightsabers aren't even ON!
I actually think the best prequel fight is Obi-Wan vs. Maul after Qui-Gonn is killed. It's filmed from (mostly) the side, so you can see what's happening, it's fast and furious, but there's not a lot of unnecessary flourishes. The part where Obi-Wan blocks behind and then in front bang-bang is pretty awesome.
The Obi-Wan/Anakin fight gave us this:
Plus "I have the high ground!" which are both... yuck.
The best fight in the entire series is the final Obi-Wan vs. Maul fight in Rebels, IMO:
If Obi-Wan had transitioned into some "fuck you dude" baseball swings or something I'd agree but the fight is still super clean and feels dispassionate when we just saw him lose his cool.
The Obi-Wan/Anakin fight does have laughably bad parts, like when they're climbing the pillar or whatever and just kind of swatting ineffectively at each other but the tension/emotion of the characters and their arcs are in the right spot for the fight to have some meaning regardless even though it goes on so long as to be boring.
You... do realize that Obi-Wan went into Qui-Gonn's stance and killed Maul when he used the same sequence that had killed Qui-Gonn?
Like, the entire fight was Obi-Wan getting justice for his master, while still being a Jedi. A Jedi doesn't lose himself to passion. And, given the above, I can't think of a bigger 'fuck you' to Maul than that.
The prequel lightsaber fights have plenty of value to me. I was a middle/high school kid when those came out, I loved that shit. A middle school kid is going to enjoy a well choreographed, acrobatic fight more than two guys yelling and hacking at each other. Plus they brought a lot of new stuff to the table. We had never seen two on one fights or non-standard lightsabers before. Give the prequel fights some credit.
I was a senior in high school when Revenge of the Sith came out (I remember skipping class to see it during the day) so the "hey it was cool to high schoolers" argument doesn't take much hold with me.
When I say the fights are bad they are technically impressive and the fight choreographers and stunt doubles earned their paychecks on them. They are just soulless, so all that really good effort is wasted.
Compare that to Empire Strikes Back which has objectively less impressive choreography but it doesn't need it because were invested in the characters and their struggles.
I mean, to be fair, Kylo lying to Rey about her parentage wouldn't exactly be a stretch. Guy's kind of an asshole.
That would ruin the whole scene. He seemed like he was being genuine for once in his life. It was one of the best parts of TLJ.
It also builds on what Rey sees in the cave. We can assume she was looking for her parents or who she is and all she sees is herself, because that's who she is, that's what she is, she's Rey.
Isn't it funny how so-called Dark Side caves show a person exactly what they need to see?
Well the dark side is just a balance of the force of the "light" its giving in to emotion basically. One could say its not evil specifically just letting it control you is evil, so it can still have truth as anyone who has ever been super pissed off and told someone really how you feel can attest to.
Though I can't recall if the dark side is specifically said to be deceptive in the star wars franchise, or if its just the practioners of it. Like Palpatine did show Anakin Padme in danger, he just held back that it was because of Anakin being a dick bag...
The movies have always been really ambiguous on what the dark side is and how it turns people evil. I'm still hoping they'll get to the "grey Jedi" concept of finding balance between the two, and how too much of one side or the other is a bad thing. e.g. focusing only on the light side means suppressing your emotions/desires to an unhealthy degree, whereas focusing only on the dark side means losing your impulse control.
I will never understand the love for the CG Star Wars series. I've tried to watch them, but I just can't.
TCW and Rebels start off rough, but end incredibly strong. TCW Anakin is by far the best iteration of the character. Ahsoka goes from annoying sidekick to really strong character in her own right. And with Rebels, it all feels like a lovingly dysfunctional family at the end, complete with an asshole droid who makes R2 look like C-3PO.
I think a big part of it is that I don't like the prequels, and TCW and Rebels both are very steeped in them.
Like, I bristled when Luke mentioned Sidious in TLJ, and I love TLJ.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
I totally want that opening in the trailer to be close to the ending of the movie.
I want Kylo to have shot down Rey on Tattooine because they are racing towards some lost skywalker mcguffin thing. And kylo being a stupid dipshit tries to run her down with his fighter and gets it cut the fuck up and now our battle begins in earnest.
Say what you will about the prequel movies, but they did have some pretty awesome lightsaber fights. Between them and what we've seen from stuff like SWTOR trailers and Clone Wars cartoons... the lightsaber fights in this new trilogy have been garbo other than MAYBE the one after Snoke dies. I get there's basically two people left in the galaxy that give a shit about lightsabers anymore and are both shoddily trained, but having movies about force users and not having an awesome fight scene or two is pretty wasteful.
Yes, it makes sense for the setting... and yet, if you make a samurai movie and don't have any cool duels, I'd be just as pissed off.
I thought they were the absolute worst in the entire franchise.
Give me Luke smashing the fuck out of Vader at the end of RotJ over the entirely aesthetic and completely worthless flippy whirly bullshit of the PT.
Edit further: The ST does well in maintaining that feeling of weight and power to the strikes, instead of CGI whiffle bat dance floor exercises.
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Well the dark side is just a balance of the force of the "light" its giving in to emotion basically. One could say its not evil specifically just letting it control you is evil, so it can still have truth as anyone who has ever been super pissed off and told someone really how you feel can attest to.
Though I can't recall if the dark side is specifically said to be deceptive in the star wars franchise, or if its just the practioners of it. Like Palpatine did show Anakin Padme in danger, he just held back that it was because of Anakin being a dick bag...
pleasepaypreacher.net
Oh my God the TFA one in the snow is so unbelievably good. The setting, where those characters are and what it means and what they're fighting for! Rey is struggling, she's out matched but she just saw her friend possibly die Kylo Ren is bleeding, smacking himself in the wound and trying his hardest to overpower this plucky young woman who doesn't have any business going toe to toe with him. They're gritting their teeth and cutting down trees as they swing wildly to murder the other person.
The prequel lightsaber fights are all so bad! They have no soul. There's no grit, no blood, it's too clean. It doesn't feel like there are stakes when they're doing a carefully choreographed ballet that goes on forever in a sterile CGI environment. The Obi-Wan vs Anakin one comes close to being good because we care about the characters and what this means in the story. And then it fucking kills itself by going on way too long with too much CGI bullshit!
The best fights are when we care about the characters and the fight is a proxy for their struggles instead of an excuse to pay your animators. How could the Obi-Wan vs Grievous fight ever compare to something like Luke vs Vader on cloud city? The scene on the second death star half of the time their lightsabers aren't even ON!
Given the current political climate around the world, Fascists vs. Stagnant Republic and/or Plucky Rebels stories might need to be told more.
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Skywalker is both the singular and plural of the title?
Like Jedi
I don't, I also didn't like the title at first glance. While 1-9 is supposed to be the Skywalker saga, I don't understand how Rise would be at the final movie. Twilight of the Skywalker.? Gift of the Skywalker?
You have been doing a little too much LDS
This was a much better Vader scene and leans into what works for the character (to me).
I'm not annoyed at Vader showing up. It would have been weird if he didn't! It's how he was used. And there's no other reason for basically all of the other fan service aside from "this movie doesn't hold up on it's own, cram it with shit the nerds will like so they don't notice."
And before anyone accuses me of being too cool, I am unashamedly one of those nerds.
Yes she needs to be dealt with again in comically easy fashion and once again sidelined.
She truly is the Boba Fett of 7-9
pleasepaypreacher.net
The kind of clumsy duel at the end of TFA is actually one of my favorites in the entire series. It lacks all the spinning twirly jumpy nonsense of the prequels and did what mattered: put two interesting characters in opposition to each other.
One of the only images I clearly recall from TFA is Kylo bashing on his wound to fuel all that anger and pain. That’s solid filmmaking, and it didn’t take thirty minutes of riding robots on a lava planet.
I thought everyone agreed that the one where the Hutts keep quoting Shakespeare was the best one. Though personally, I go for the one where they shot R2D2 into Endor inside a torpedo while Chewbacca played Amazing Grace on the bagpipes.
On my sleeve, let the runway start
I think opposing opinions on Rogue One are both valid. It's a run, exciting and visually stunning Star Wars film that also has some weak characters, feels choppy and has uneven editing and plays the fan-service on thick. I think it's better than any of the prequels and sequel trilogy films.
Ah, well, I was responding to the general statement - that it's silly to expect something new from a setting that was created ~40 years ago - not Rogue One/Solo specifically.
I love the part where they're trying to alpha strike the other and they've grabbed each other's sword arms. You can see the colors of both lightsabers flickering on their faces representing the conflict and the tension. They're both tired and struggling, straining to win at any cost. Rey is gritting her teeth she's giving her all to this because losing means dying! It means her friend dies too!
They feel mortal and thus there are stakes. Contrast this to Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon fighting endlessly without tiring against an enemy who has no personality in an elegant dance that only makes sense as a fighting style if all the combatants had practiced each step very carefully.
It would be a hilarious fake out. And from having played Battlefront 2 which supposedly is in Canon of the new movies they even have something that would make this work.
pleasepaypreacher.net
This is why I really, really hope there's some big twist coming for everyone, like Phasma let Finn continuously get away and took a knee for him several times for a purpose. Gwendolyn Christie and John Boyega are two outstanding actors that have been completely and utterly WASTED in this trilogy so far. Benicio del Toro looked cooler than those two, and he was in the trilogy for maybe 15 minutes! I will be pissed if both remain as Shiny Mid Boss and Token Black Comic Relief for the whole trilogy.
I mean Finn was instrumental in getting them to go get Rey in the falcon in TFA, and instrumental in TLJ to showing sometimes you need to just follow and not lead.
pleasepaypreacher.net
or were using the Force as a guide.
I actually think the best prequel fight is Obi-Wan vs. Maul after Qui-Gonn is killed. It's filmed from (mostly) the side, so you can see what's happening, it's fast and furious, but there's not a lot of unnecessary flourishes. The part where Obi-Wan blocks behind and then in front bang-bang is pretty awesome.
The Obi-Wan/Anakin fight gave us this:
Plus "I have the high ground!" which are both... yuck.
The best fight in the entire series is the final Obi-Wan vs. Maul fight in Rebels, IMO:
On the other hand, every single thing about Solo should actively disinterest me, but it just kept the momentum going well enough that I kind of dug it. Characters are arguably even less logically motivated than in Rogue One, but there’s enough charm and chemistry to float on.
Maybe it was just my expectations of the two. I expected something more impressive from Rogue One and absolutely nothing from Solo except a Donald Glover appearance.
Kylo finds Palpatine's spirit, Palpatine tries to taunt/possess/educate/whatever him...and Kylo, using his ridiculous Force strength, eats his damn ghost.
IMO, Rogue One just sort of exists until after Jyn's dad dies. I honestly don't remember much until that point. There's the utterly pointless torturing of Bodhi, a fight in the city I guess... the Death Star blowing up whatever planet that was... it just sort of lumbers around for an hour before the push to get the plans.
pleasepaypreacher.net
They are a trash fire.
Sure you can say/do that and it's fine as an answer but knowing why doesn't make it look/feel any better to me. Them being elegant combat gods isn't something that's appealing to me. It makes them feel less human and more oddly robotic.
It's a good justification for a bad choice.
Then let the other spinoffs/trilogies do their own thing however they want to do it.
Oh, and the Vader scene in Rogue One was awesome. That is all.
If Skywalker is the new name for Jedi, then the galaxy at large probably named them that after the Luke story spread. Rey's last dealing with Luke was kicking his ass and stealing his books, it doesn't seem right that she'd honor him like that.
This is weird
Like, given the period the movie is set in, of course Mon Mothma and Vader and Tarkin are around, they're key players at that point, and none of them have more than like five minutes of screen time
The only thing I found really eye-rolling was Leia and the Tantive IV at the very end, and that's more because it makes exactly zero sense with ANH's opening scene
TCW and Rebels start off rough, but end incredibly strong. TCW Anakin is by far the best iteration of the character. Ahsoka goes from annoying sidekick to really strong character in her own right. And with Rebels, it all feels like a lovingly dysfunctional family at the end, complete with an asshole droid who makes R2 look like C-3PO.
kicking his ass?
uh ... I don't think we watched the same movie
If Obi-Wan had transitioned into some "fuck you dude" baseball swings or something I'd agree but the fight is still super clean and feels dispassionate when we just saw him lose his cool.
The Obi-Wan/Anakin fight does have laughably bad parts, like when they're climbing the pillar or whatever and just kind of swatting ineffectively at each other but the tension/emotion of the characters and their arcs are in the right spot for the fight to have some meaning regardless even though it goes on so long as to be boring.
I would agree the better fights aren't the flashier ones, but the ones more like a samurai duel... where it felt like there were two warriors who were very talented that constantly sized each other up and wasted little movement.
Which is why as emotional as they are, the fights in the last two movies are disappointing to me... Rey and Kylo are like two kids with their parents' weapons trying to be cool. Just hasn't worked for me so far. Hell, Luke schooled Kylo at the end of TLJ and didn't even have to be there physically.
You... do realize that Obi-Wan went into Qui-Gonn's stance and killed Maul when he used the same sequence that had killed Qui-Gonn?
Like, the entire fight was Obi-Wan getting justice for his master, while still being a Jedi. A Jedi doesn't lose himself to passion. And, given the above, I can't think of a bigger 'fuck you' to Maul than that.
I was a senior in high school when Revenge of the Sith came out (I remember skipping class to see it during the day) so the "hey it was cool to high schoolers" argument doesn't take much hold with me.
When I say the fights are bad they are technically impressive and the fight choreographers and stunt doubles earned their paychecks on them. They are just soulless, so all that really good effort is wasted.
Compare that to Empire Strikes Back which has objectively less impressive choreography but it doesn't need it because were invested in the characters and their struggles.
The movies have always been really ambiguous on what the dark side is and how it turns people evil. I'm still hoping they'll get to the "grey Jedi" concept of finding balance between the two, and how too much of one side or the other is a bad thing. e.g. focusing only on the light side means suppressing your emotions/desires to an unhealthy degree, whereas focusing only on the dark side means losing your impulse control.
I think a big part of it is that I don't like the prequels, and TCW and Rebels both are very steeped in them.
Like, I bristled when Luke mentioned Sidious in TLJ, and I love TLJ.
I thought they were the absolute worst in the entire franchise.
Give me Luke smashing the fuck out of Vader at the end of RotJ over the entirely aesthetic and completely worthless flippy whirly bullshit of the PT.
Edit further: The ST does well in maintaining that feeling of weight and power to the strikes, instead of CGI whiffle bat dance floor exercises.