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Pathfinder: Kingmaker- Wrath of the Righteous out now!

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    EspantaPajaroEspantaPajaro Registered User regular
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    Prestidigitation will make a small business card, as will a large number of other creation or illusion spells.

    How good of one it’ll make is up to interpretation.

    Wizard discussion always makes me think of this video even though all my knowledge comes from crpgs.

    https://youtu.be/U1Gs8WTddI4

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    ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

    aeu195dosn05.png

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    DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    Prestidigitation will make a small business card, as will a large number of other creation or illusion spells.

    How good of one it’ll make is up to interpretation.

    at what level do you unlock Silian Rail?

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    ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
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    EspantaPajaroEspantaPajaro Registered User regular
    I really hope companions are better in this game , that was my one big complaint that has never been addressed in kingmaker. Not in the min max setting but personality wise or just be more interesting . Nok nok Harrim and Jubilost were really the only ones that were cool. The others range from annoyance to outright hate , Valeries quest was fucking stupid Ekun was a non entity , a I must avenge my family fucking nothing character . Octavia and Regongar did not interest me at all , Amiri was dull in every way and sounded like someone trying to do a Batman voice . Tristan was cardboard but at least had some story relevance . Linzi wasn’t a character so much as she was a plot device. That said the dlc companions were cool and I also just remembered that Jaethal is a thing . I suppose that really says what I thought about her.

    So yeah I’m hoping there will be more companions that I will actually use past a first playthrough.

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    ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    I liked Octavia, and her "Go fuck up all the slavers" questline was good fun. I spent the game trying to convince her that Regongar was an ass and they both could do better.

    Linzi was my BFF.

    Jaethal never fit with my party, so I did as little as possible with her.

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    EspantaPajaroEspantaPajaro Registered User regular
    edited February 2021
    Gentlemen. I need something from you . I need you to explain to me with your gigantic galaxy brains how the fuck a kineticist ( or however the fuck you spell it ) actually works. I did one playthrough with Kanerah a year ago ( cause she actually has a personality and was enjoyable . I also don’t understand how she was evil other then she made a deal with a devil) I think but it was on normal so you could just face roll on the keyboard and win on that difficulty. I don’t understand this burn mechanic or if I should melee with elemental weapons or how the infusion works . I basically had her auto attack the entire time , since this was before turn based mode was out so I never really had reason to micro her.

    EspantaPajaro on
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    TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    Kineticist was a weird inclusion in the game. I love the class, but it plays very differently than anything else and requires a little micro managing that doesn't translate well to real-time-with-pause. Although I'd say that last part about a lot of the spellcasters, too.

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    SanderJKSanderJK Crocodylus Pontifex Sinterklasicus Madrid, 3000 ADRegistered User regular
    The basis of a kineticist is this:

    You spend a standard action to do a blast. This does more damage if it is a normal ranged attack roll, or has a higher chance to hit as a ranged touch attack roll.
    This is tied to your element.

    Then you have several abilities to modify the blast. If you engage too many of them on one blast, you take burn. Burn gives you unhealable damage.

    And then you have abilities to mitigate burn. Gather power trades actions for negating burn. This allows you to set up powerful blasts.

    And lastly you have some utility powers, also based on your element.

    So you basically configure a bunch of blasts within your negated burn limit, and then in important fights you accept burn to go nova.

    Steam: SanderJK Origin: SanderJK
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    ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    SanderJK wrote: »
    The basis of a kineticist is this:

    You spend a standard action to do a blast. This does more damage if it is a normal ranged attack roll, or has a higher chance to hit as a ranged touch attack roll.
    This is tied to your element.

    Then you have several abilities to modify the blast. If you engage too many of them on one blast, you take burn. Burn gives you unhealable damage.

    And then you have abilities to mitigate burn. Gather power trades actions for negating burn. This allows you to set up powerful blasts.

    And lastly you have some utility powers, also based on your element.

    So you basically configure a bunch of blasts within your negated burn limit, and then in important fights you accept burn to go nova.

    ... and, generally, you'll have an ability or two that "turns on" when you've got some burn (like +Dodge bonuses to AC or Evasion, or whatever). So you'll want to pick up a tiny bit of burn to start off at the beginning of the day.

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    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited February 2021
    Cohh is playing the beta on stream, and he's uploaded a few hours of gameplay to his Youtube.

    It's certainly a whole lot more cinematic than Kingmaker.

    -Loki- on
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    SanderJKSanderJK Crocodylus Pontifex Sinterklasicus Madrid, 3000 ADRegistered User regular
    The first chapter of Wrath is really opposite of Kingmaker.

    Kingmaker has you explore a forest for a long time looking for a bandit lord.

    Wrath introduces upper tier Outsiders really fast.

    The briefest of background lore:

    Golarion has a region known as the Worldwound, for about a hundred years. It's a planar tear leading to the Abyss. The Abyss is the Plane of Demons (who are chaotic evil)
    Normally demons have to go through a lot of trouble to enter the Material Plane, but here it is much easier.

    There have been several Crusades to push back the demons, but they have all crumpled. Land was lost and a defensive perimeter was established.

    It's easy to see how sudden events in such a region get out of control really, really fast.

    Steam: SanderJK Origin: SanderJK
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    DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    Questions about the new one.

    Does it start from level 1?

    Does anything from kingmaker carry over?

    This one looks super rad and up my alley but I never played kingmaker and was hoping when this hits I could jump right into it.

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    BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    Questions about the new one.

    Does it start from level 1?

    Does anything from kingmaker carry over?

    This one looks super rad and up my alley but I never played kingmaker and was hoping when this hits I could jump right into it.

    It's not a narrative sequel to Kingmaker, you can just jump in.

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    DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    Perfect!

    Does it start at level 1?

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    EspantaPajaroEspantaPajaro Registered User regular
    Perfect!

    Does it start at level 1?

    Yes .

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    DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    Perfect!

    Does it start at level 1?

    Yes .

    Hells yea.

    Alright I'm in!

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    EspantaPajaroEspantaPajaro Registered User regular
    Well it doesn’t come out until summer at earliest sir so I would suggest picking up kingmaker since it’s cheap and a good game .

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    DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    Well it doesn’t come out until summer at earliest sir so I would suggest picking up kingmaker since it’s cheap and a good game .

    Oh yea I know it's not out for a bit. Just wanted to make sure it was something I wanted to follow.

    And Kingmaker looked cool and I was interested but I just couldn't really come up with a character that I was over the moon about after spending way too much time reading about the pathfinder system for a game I didn't own and ended up never grabbing it.

    But that Bloodrager class sounds legit exactly like what I was trying to make work with a sorcerer but actually made to do it. And then the Mythic character progressions seem super awesome and the the big fuckoff animations are something I am ALLL about in a game like this.

    So Kingmaker looks cool, but this one looks like it makes a lot of the changes that are very specific to making it better for me.

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    DrascinDrascin Registered User regular
    edited February 2021
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    I liked Octavia, and her "Go fuck up all the slavers" questline was good fun. I spent the game trying to convince her that Regongar was an ass and they both could do better.

    Linzi was my BFF.

    Jaethal never fit with my party, so I did as little as possible with her.

    Linzi was the best character in the party by a significant distance. She was likable, funny, and better written than most of the party. I was thoroughly annoyed that they forced her to leave the party in the last act, when she'd been a centerpiece of my party because she was the character other than my own that I brought to basically everything. I kinda had to scramble a bit, there.

    Jaethal I just literally kicked out in act 1. She told me her backstory and I just went "yeah, I don't want that around. Bye".

    And with Valerie I kinda had the problem that I was playing a cleric of Shelyn, and the game at no point accounts for this in her dialogue tree, which gets EXTREMELY surreal.

    Valerie: "The Shelyn clergy is all ponces and assholes praising useless stuff the whole lot should be thrown on the street and be made to do hard labor like real men, and anyone who would care about stuff like poetry and beauty is dumb."
    Me, a 12th level Cleric who Shelyn personally grants spells to every morning, wielding a blessed glaive glittering with rainbow divine fire: "You don't say"

    Drascin on
    Steam ID: Right here.
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    jdarksunjdarksun Struggler VARegistered User regular
    Daaaang I'm like 35 minutes into Cohh's stream for Wrath of the Righteous and I'm considering upping my pledge for a beta key.

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    EspantaPajaroEspantaPajaro Registered User regular
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Daaaang I'm like 35 minutes into Cohh's stream for Wrath of the Righteous and I'm considering upping my pledge for a beta key.

    I dunno $150 is really fucking steep for me for early access . Especially since kingmaker was apparently broken for much of its first year so I think I will wait .

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    jdarksunjdarksun Struggler VARegistered User regular
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Daaaang I'm like 35 minutes into Cohh's stream for Wrath of the Righteous and I'm considering upping my pledge for a beta key.

    I dunno $150 is really fucking steep for me for early access . Especially since kingmaker was apparently broken for much of its first year so I think I will wait .
    hahaha what. i was thinking it'd just be like $30 to bump me to $60. nooooope

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    EspantaPajaroEspantaPajaro Registered User regular
    edited February 2021
    jdarksun wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Daaaang I'm like 35 minutes into Cohh's stream for Wrath of the Righteous and I'm considering upping my pledge for a beta key.

    I dunno $150 is really fucking steep for me for early access . Especially since kingmaker was apparently broken for much of its first year so I think I will wait .
    hahaha what. i was thinking it'd just be like $30 to bump me to $60. nooooope

    I understand it cause that’s how much the Kickstarter people had to pay but still...

    Edit - also looked up the new classes and sad that occultist isn’t there , that class looked real fun . Maybe the magical instrument system doesn’t translate to video games?

    EspantaPajaro on
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    CarnarvonCarnarvon Registered User regular
    jdarksun wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Daaaang I'm like 35 minutes into Cohh's stream for Wrath of the Righteous and I'm considering upping my pledge for a beta key.

    I dunno $150 is really fucking steep for me for early access . Especially since kingmaker was apparently broken for much of its first year so I think I will wait .
    hahaha what. i was thinking it'd just be like $30 to bump me to $60. nooooope

    I understand it cause that’s how much the Kickstarter people had to pay but still...

    Edit - also looked up the new classes and sad that occultist isn’t there , that class looked real fun . Maybe the magical instrument system doesn’t translate to video games?

    If you guys think Kineticist is hard to figure out, the Occultist is even more noodley. Save for the Psychic and Mesmerist, they were all pretty difficult to wrap your head around.

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    EspantaPajaroEspantaPajaro Registered User regular
    Carnarvon wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Daaaang I'm like 35 minutes into Cohh's stream for Wrath of the Righteous and I'm considering upping my pledge for a beta key.

    I dunno $150 is really fucking steep for me for early access . Especially since kingmaker was apparently broken for much of its first year so I think I will wait .
    hahaha what. i was thinking it'd just be like $30 to bump me to $60. nooooope

    I understand it cause that’s how much the Kickstarter people had to pay but still...

    Edit - also looked up the new classes and sad that occultist isn’t there , that class looked real fun . Maybe the magical instrument system doesn’t translate to video games?

    If you guys think Kineticist is hard to figure out, the Occultist is even more noodley. Save for the Psychic and Mesmerist, they were all pretty difficult to wrap your head around.

    I just really liked the idea of drawing power from instruments and such . Kinda reminded me of bloodbournes where the “spells” were artifacts that absorbed power over time that you drew out of them .

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    CarnarvonCarnarvon Registered User regular
    Carnarvon wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Daaaang I'm like 35 minutes into Cohh's stream for Wrath of the Righteous and I'm considering upping my pledge for a beta key.

    I dunno $150 is really fucking steep for me for early access . Especially since kingmaker was apparently broken for much of its first year so I think I will wait .
    hahaha what. i was thinking it'd just be like $30 to bump me to $60. nooooope

    I understand it cause that’s how much the Kickstarter people had to pay but still...

    Edit - also looked up the new classes and sad that occultist isn’t there , that class looked real fun . Maybe the magical instrument system doesn’t translate to video games?

    If you guys think Kineticist is hard to figure out, the Occultist is even more noodley. Save for the Psychic and Mesmerist, they were all pretty difficult to wrap your head around.

    I just really liked the idea of drawing power from instruments and such . Kinda reminded me of bloodbournes where the “spells” were artifacts that absorbed power over time that you drew out of them .

    It's a great class, everyone I've played with really enjoyed it, but there's a lot of plates to juggle. I'd hate to have to micro that and five other members.

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    SproutSprout Registered User regular
    Carnarvon wrote: »
    Carnarvon wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Daaaang I'm like 35 minutes into Cohh's stream for Wrath of the Righteous and I'm considering upping my pledge for a beta key.

    I dunno $150 is really fucking steep for me for early access . Especially since kingmaker was apparently broken for much of its first year so I think I will wait .
    hahaha what. i was thinking it'd just be like $30 to bump me to $60. nooooope

    I understand it cause that’s how much the Kickstarter people had to pay but still...

    Edit - also looked up the new classes and sad that occultist isn’t there , that class looked real fun . Maybe the magical instrument system doesn’t translate to video games?

    If you guys think Kineticist is hard to figure out, the Occultist is even more noodley. Save for the Psychic and Mesmerist, they were all pretty difficult to wrap your head around.

    I just really liked the idea of drawing power from instruments and such . Kinda reminded me of bloodbournes where the “spells” were artifacts that absorbed power over time that you drew out of them .

    It's a great class, everyone I've played with really enjoyed it, but there's a lot of plates to juggle. I'd hate to have to micro that and five other members.

    And that's the thing, right? These more complex classes are very cool in paper because they're a player's entire focus. In a party-based RPG like this the player has to think about how to use and build six different characters. And then there are the other folks who you've got at the base who you sometimes pull out. Sure, there are always auto-level features but those always feel like they make less-than-optimal choices or just remove a big part of the game from the player's hands.

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    htmhtm Registered User regular
    Carnarvon wrote: »
    Carnarvon wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Daaaang I'm like 35 minutes into Cohh's stream for Wrath of the Righteous and I'm considering upping my pledge for a beta key.

    I dunno $150 is really fucking steep for me for early access . Especially since kingmaker was apparently broken for much of its first year so I think I will wait .
    hahaha what. i was thinking it'd just be like $30 to bump me to $60. nooooope

    I understand it cause that’s how much the Kickstarter people had to pay but still...

    Edit - also looked up the new classes and sad that occultist isn’t there , that class looked real fun . Maybe the magical instrument system doesn’t translate to video games?

    If you guys think Kineticist is hard to figure out, the Occultist is even more noodley. Save for the Psychic and Mesmerist, they were all pretty difficult to wrap your head around.

    I just really liked the idea of drawing power from instruments and such . Kinda reminded me of bloodbournes where the “spells” were artifacts that absorbed power over time that you drew out of them .

    It's a great class, everyone I've played with really enjoyed it, but there's a lot of plates to juggle. I'd hate to have to micro that and five other members.

    Turn-based combat pretty much fixes the micro, but yeah... leveling up the whole party (or even having a proper understanding of how each of the party should progress) takes a lot of research/work.

    That being said, I have the beta and spent a few minutes with it last night. It's rough but promising:

    -It's added a zillion new classes and archetypes to what KM already had.
    -Turn-based combat is part of the core game.
    -The Kingdom management mini-game has been replaced by a HoMM-style army management mini-game for strategic combat (apparently some of the OwlCat devs are veterans from the HoMM franchise).
    -According to people who played the alpha in its original Russian form, the story is considerably more grimdark than KM.

    Anyway, I'm looking forward to it. KM was super rough at the start, but it ended up being my favorite so far of the modern generation of tabula rasa isometric RPGs (PoE I & II, Torment, Tyranny, etc.). Hopefully, OwlCat can manage to up their level of polish and WotR won't be the sort of version 1.0 hot garbage that KM was.

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    McHogerMcHoger Registered User regular
    I ended up not really liking Kingmaker. But the turn-based mode and controller support they added to it were really impressive.

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    EspantaPajaroEspantaPajaro Registered User regular
    McHoger wrote: »
    I ended up not really liking Kingmaker. But the turn-based mode and controller support they added to it were really impressive.

    Gameplay wise or story wise ? Just curious.

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    McHogerMcHoger Registered User regular
    McHoger wrote: »
    I ended up not really liking Kingmaker. But the turn-based mode and controller support they added to it were really impressive.

    Gameplay wise or story wise ? Just curious.

    I think it has really bad encounter design.

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    EspantaPajaroEspantaPajaro Registered User regular
    McHoger wrote: »
    McHoger wrote: »
    I ended up not really liking Kingmaker. But the turn-based mode and controller support they added to it were really impressive.

    Gameplay wise or story wise ? Just curious.

    I think it has really bad encounter design.

    Late game I agree , aka the last two dungeons . We actually had a discussion about this last pageish where if you have the necessary buffs the game is a fucking cakewalk easy mode and if you don’t know the mechanics it’s fucking bullshit.

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    jdarksunjdarksun Struggler VARegistered User regular
    Yeah there's way too much baked-in system knowledge required for KM. It also makes it really tedious to play imo. Like I *really* dug the game, but I petered out last year.

    Shit I should really go back and finish it.

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    EspantaPajaroEspantaPajaro Registered User regular
    edited February 2021
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Yeah there's way too much baked-in system knowledge required for KM. It also makes it really tedious to play imo. Like I *really* dug the game, but I petered out last year.

    Shit I should really go back and finish it.

    Freedom of movement ( otherwise wild hunt are insufferable) delay poison and deathward on everyone ! Also the ghosts will still do stat damage it’s unavoidable , since they have crippling strike ( -2 str on sneak attack) . They also have dispelling strike and if they dispel the aforementioned buffs you will be taking negative level damage as well as choking to death on cloudkill ( con damage and insta death ) from the spamming ghostly magus. Also if you are on challenging wild hunt can’t die until you kill the monarch . They just start regen on the floor like trolls. Kinda annoying .

    Also lore / pnp people , do the wild hunt belong to the end boss? Are they his personal army ? Cause it kinda seemed like it but from what I gather from the wiki they are supposed to be independent. Confusing to say the least.

    EspantaPajaro on
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    SproutSprout Registered User regular
    Stat and level damage are the absolute worst mechanics.

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    ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    Sprout wrote: »
    Stat and level damage are the absolute worst mechanics.

    Conceptually, I think stat damage is a really cool idea as a way to indicate things that actually slow you down (poisons, diseases, etc.).

    In practice, they suck donkey and end up being more annoying than anything else AND have all the problems every other “ignore HP” mechanic has (e.g. mill in MTG / Hearthstone, critical hits in d20 SW / Modern).

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    SanderJKSanderJK Crocodylus Pontifex Sinterklasicus Madrid, 3000 ADRegistered User regular
    Kingmaker makes the mistake almost all games of this lineage do, which is that huge maps needs to be filled with encounters. And then copies a bunch of nearly the same encounters.
    It gets into a boring save/load cycle for any undesirable outcome.

    The final dungeon is the worst in this regard, and they add tedious enemies on top of that which require a ton of pre-buffing. I cheated in a wand of Heal for the back half of it, I felt it was wasting my time resting/buffing/removing debuffs.

    It's a shame because the system can be fun and challenging, but with so much tedium it becomes much more tempting to just remove all the difficulty.

    I honestly wonder how a 'remove half the encounters' mod would impact the game.

    Steam: SanderJK Origin: SanderJK
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    EspantaPajaroEspantaPajaro Registered User regular
    edited February 2021
    So everyone has issues with HATEOT and the Ruined capital that immediately follows it . But what are the dungeons you liked ?

    1) vordekais tomb- lots of treasure unique fights with powerful enemies you don’t see anywhere else in the game , just a classic adventure feel with the hero’s diving in a trap ridden undead tomb .

    2) Pitax palace - lot of hidden treasure and secret fights and rooms , I like the tile set for the dungeon as well .

    3) Armags tomb - fun fights lots of unique items ( hidden behind amazingly fucking hard perception checks 40+ ) and I like armag as a character . His plotline has a decent twist and I’ve always disagreed that he is chaotic evil but the people who manipulated him since his birth are neutral . Fuck the fae , them being neutral is actual nonsense .

    EspantaPajaro on
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    htmhtm Registered User regular
    SanderJK wrote: »
    Kingmaker makes the mistake almost all games of this lineage do, which is that huge maps needs to be filled with encounters. And then copies a bunch of nearly the same encounters.
    It gets into a boring save/load cycle for any undesirable outcome.

    The final dungeon is the worst in this regard, and they add tedious enemies on top of that which require a ton of pre-buffing. I cheated in a wand of Heal for the back half of it, I felt it was wasting my time resting/buffing/removing debuffs.

    It's a shame because the system can be fun and challenging, but with so much tedium it becomes much more tempting to just remove all the difficulty.

    I honestly wonder how a 'remove half the encounters' mod would impact the game.

    Except for the aforementioned endgame stuff, I thought its big set piece dungeons were pretty good. The over-world definitely had a "we need to put a fight on every map node" feel to it, but as long as you weren't under-leveled, those fights were easy.

    That being said, I also hated its pause and play combat and I never would have finished it if the turn based mod hadn't come out.

This discussion has been closed.