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[Australian & NZ Politics] 'Straya's closed

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    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    To be an effective voter in New Zealand, you need to vote. Yes, you need to also be informed but the information is made available to you, you don't have to go out and search for it yourself. I mean you can. but it's not really *necessary*

    Also, IIRC, like Australia, the elections are handled by a non-partisan governmental entity.

    I know I've mentioned it in the past, but having Harris oversee Florida in 2000, and Kenp oversee his own fucking election in Georgia, and having partisan Republican lawmakers make shit difficult, might not be the only issue with the fucked up nature of elections, but it's a contributing one.

    Compulsory voting helps too (as extremists have trouble getting influencethe larger the number of people voting is), though I'm not sure that is a thing on NZ?

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    electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    Compulsory voting is absolute one of the most important features of any functional democracy IMO. It neatly marries too opposing desires into a positive influence: the regular citizens outrage at any unexpected outlay of money to the government, and the fact that issuing fines promptly is something a government winds up being really good at doing.

    Result: fuck with an election, and it'll be made real clear, real quick, who you tried to deny the vote too.

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    VivixenneVivixenne Remember your training, and we'll get through this just fine. Registered User regular
    Compulsory voting is absolute one of the most important features of any functional democracy IMO. It neatly marries too opposing desires into a positive influence: the regular citizens outrage at any unexpected outlay of money to the government, and the fact that issuing fines promptly is something a government winds up being really good at doing.

    Result: fuck with an election, and it'll be made real clear, real quick, who you tried to deny the vote too.

    Honestly it’s not just the fines that make compulsory voting work. It’s also that because voting is compulsory, the government can’t actively hamstring access to voting. Like, in Australia, voting day is always on a Saturday and polling places are plentiful. You never have to wait very long and if there IS a long wait at one location, generally speaking there’s another location not far away. Like, the simple virtue of voting being mandatory means the government kinda has to make sure everyone CAN vote.

    In the US, voting is on a Tuesday and polling places are much harder to access. Elections are also burdened with having to motivate people to vote, whereas in Australia, the presumption is that you ARE voting, so less air time needs to be wasted on that part of the conversation.

    Plus, preferential voting > first past the post. Every time.

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    GvzbgulGvzbgul Registered User regular
    I think the US would find a way to hamstring access to voting and have fines for not voting.

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    GvzbgulGvzbgul Registered User regular
    Random thought: election advertising stops on the day of the election. But with the increasing emphasis on advanced voting it seems like the advertising rules ought to be tightened for that period too. There's some rules, but compared to the day of they're still quite lenient.

    I dunno, it seems like the actual election day is becoming an appendix. Everyone I know has already early voted or isn't going to vote. So, why not bring advanced voting advertising rules more in line with the election day rules?

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    FishmanFishman Put your goddamned hand in the goddamned Box of Pain. Registered User regular
    Yeah, a few commentators have noted that this election. I think even a few candidates have discussed it - not politically, but rather as an observation. To an extent, even though it's legislative, it's sort of the realm of the electoral commission to make a recommendation. At least here in NZ, our politicians don't generally get too involved in the politicisation of the mechanics of voting, respecting the political neutrality of a fair process.

    But it is interesting.

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    Donovan PuppyfuckerDonovan Puppyfucker A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered User regular
    Vivixenne wrote: »
    Compulsory voting is absolute one of the most important features of any functional democracy IMO. It neatly marries too opposing desires into a positive influence: the regular citizens outrage at any unexpected outlay of money to the government, and the fact that issuing fines promptly is something a government winds up being really good at doing.

    Result: fuck with an election, and it'll be made real clear, real quick, who you tried to deny the vote too.

    Honestly it’s not just the fines that make compulsory voting work. It’s also that because voting is compulsory, the government can’t actively hamstring access to voting. Like, in Australia, voting day is always on a Saturday and polling places are plentiful. You never have to wait very long and if there IS a long wait at one location, generally speaking there’s another location not far away. Like, the simple virtue of voting being mandatory means the government kinda has to make sure everyone CAN vote.

    In the US, voting is on a Tuesday and polling places are much harder to access. Elections are also burdened with having to motivate people to vote, whereas in Australia, the presumption is that you ARE voting, so less air time needs to be wasted on that part of the conversation.

    Plus, preferential voting > first past the post. Every time.

    Yep, voting in Australia is a simple matter of "find the nearest public primary (elementary) school and go vote, it'll take AT MOST 30 minutes."

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    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Vivixenne wrote: »
    Compulsory voting is absolute one of the most important features of any functional democracy IMO. It neatly marries too opposing desires into a positive influence: the regular citizens outrage at any unexpected outlay of money to the government, and the fact that issuing fines promptly is something a government winds up being really good at doing.

    Result: fuck with an election, and it'll be made real clear, real quick, who you tried to deny the vote too.

    Honestly it’s not just the fines that make compulsory voting work. It’s also that because voting is compulsory, the government can’t actively hamstring access to voting. Like, in Australia, voting day is always on a Saturday and polling places are plentiful. You never have to wait very long and if there IS a long wait at one location, generally speaking there’s another location not far away. Like, the simple virtue of voting being mandatory means the government kinda has to make sure everyone CAN vote.

    In the US, voting is on a Tuesday and polling places are much harder to access. Elections are also burdened with having to motivate people to vote, whereas in Australia, the presumption is that you ARE voting, so less air time needs to be wasted on that part of the conversation.

    Plus, preferential voting > first past the post. Every time.

    Yep, voting in Australia is a simple matter of "find the nearest public primary (elementary) school and go vote, it'll take AT MOST 30 minutes."

    Also, you can get a sausage.

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    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    Vivixenne wrote: »
    Compulsory voting is absolute one of the most important features of any functional democracy IMO. It neatly marries too opposing desires into a positive influence: the regular citizens outrage at any unexpected outlay of money to the government, and the fact that issuing fines promptly is something a government winds up being really good at doing.

    Result: fuck with an election, and it'll be made real clear, real quick, who you tried to deny the vote too.

    Honestly it’s not just the fines that make compulsory voting work. It’s also that because voting is compulsory, the government can’t actively hamstring access to voting. Like, in Australia, voting day is always on a Saturday and polling places are plentiful. You never have to wait very long and if there IS a long wait at one location, generally speaking there’s another location not far away. Like, the simple virtue of voting being mandatory means the government kinda has to make sure everyone CAN vote.

    In the US, voting is on a Tuesday and polling places are much harder to access. Elections are also burdened with having to motivate people to vote, whereas in Australia, the presumption is that you ARE voting, so less air time needs to be wasted on that part of the conversation.

    Plus, preferential voting > first past the post. Every time.

    Yep, voting in Australia is a simple matter of "find the nearest public primary (elementary) school and go vote, it'll take AT MOST 30 minutes."

    Also, you can get a sausage.

    The sausage sizzle is the best part.

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    discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    Vivixenne wrote: »
    Compulsory voting is absolute one of the most important features of any functional democracy IMO. It neatly marries too opposing desires into a positive influence: the regular citizens outrage at any unexpected outlay of money to the government, and the fact that issuing fines promptly is something a government winds up being really good at doing.

    Result: fuck with an election, and it'll be made real clear, real quick, who you tried to deny the vote too.

    Honestly it’s not just the fines that make compulsory voting work. It’s also that because voting is compulsory, the government can’t actively hamstring access to voting. Like, in Australia, voting day is always on a Saturday and polling places are plentiful. You never have to wait very long and if there IS a long wait at one location, generally speaking there’s another location not far away. Like, the simple virtue of voting being mandatory means the government kinda has to make sure everyone CAN vote.

    In the US, voting is on a Tuesday and polling places are much harder to access. Elections are also burdened with having to motivate people to vote, whereas in Australia, the presumption is that you ARE voting, so less air time needs to be wasted on that part of the conversation.

    Plus, preferential voting > first past the post. Every time.

    Yep, voting in Australia is a simple matter of "find the nearest public primary (elementary) school and go vote, it'll take AT MOST 30 minutes."

    Also, you can get a sausage.

    :/
    Well now I feel cheated.

    But on the extreme, ACT "state" elections are on at the moment, and I just got delivered this pad of paper listing the hundred or so election points.
    So one every 20 square km / 8 square miles.
    If I'm being generous with the land area I think.

    And all of these booths have been running for the three week election period.

    I presume there'll be sausages on election day, if anyone is left to eat them.

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    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    left to eat them.[/quote]
    -Loki- wrote: »
    MorganV wrote: »
    Vivixenne wrote: »
    Compulsory voting is absolute one of the most important features of any functional democracy IMO. It neatly marries too opposing desires into a positive influence: the regular citizens outrage at any unexpected outlay of money to the government, and the fact that issuing fines promptly is something a government winds up being really good at doing.

    Result: fuck with an election, and it'll be made real clear, real quick, who you tried to deny the vote too.

    Honestly it’s not just the fines that make compulsory voting work. It’s also that because voting is compulsory, the government can’t actively hamstring access to voting. Like, in Australia, voting day is always on a Saturday and polling places are plentiful. You never have to wait very long and if there IS a long wait at one location, generally speaking there’s another location not far away. Like, the simple virtue of voting being mandatory means the government kinda has to make sure everyone CAN vote.

    In the US, voting is on a Tuesday and polling places are much harder to access. Elections are also burdened with having to motivate people to vote, whereas in Australia, the presumption is that you ARE voting, so less air time needs to be wasted on that part of the conversation.

    Plus, preferential voting > first past the post. Every time.

    Yep, voting in Australia is a simple matter of "find the nearest public primary (elementary) school and go vote, it'll take AT MOST 30 minutes."

    Also, you can get a sausage.

    The sausage sizzle is the best part.

    It's what makes me sad about my council election. It's mail-in only. Meaning no sausage sizzle. Filled out my ballot over the weekend, but am waiting until I go up the shops tomorrow or Friday, so I can get some sausages and a loaf of bread, for after I drop my ballot off at the post office.

    I WILL HAZ SAUSAGE, EVEN IF'N I HAZ DO IT MYSELF.

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    TeeManTeeMan BrainSpoon Registered User regular
    Australia needs to incorporate corn cobs or veggie kebabs to the democracy bbq events for us veggie only scumbags

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    THAC0THAC0 Registered User regular
    I've found the last few times I've voted that there has been at least one dedicated vegetarian BBQ including separate onions. Maybe I've just been lucky though

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    plufimplufim Dr Registered User regular
    3DS 0302-0029-3193 NNID plufim steam plufim PSN plufim
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    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    plufim wrote: »

    Answer: Because the Liberal Senator is either a racist fucker, or so ignorant he should be disqualified from serving, or both.

    My bet is both.

    So, I looked it up. The Senator in question is Eric Abetz.

    So I looked further. Eric Abetz was NOT born in Australia. Eric Abetz emigrated (granted, at the age of three) in 1961.

    FROM GERMANY.

    You want to fucking hold the sins of a nation someone originated from against someone who's family moved countries a half century earlier? Hmm... wonder what Germany was doing in the half century before your family moved to Australia? You feel any fucking responsibility for that, and feel you need to continually be asked to denounce the fucking Nazi party?

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    TefTef Registered User regular
    The Australian Liberal, “but what about the good things the Nazis did” Party?

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    TeeManTeeMan BrainSpoon Registered User regular
    Eric Abetz has been a person to avoid listening to at all costs for a long time now, no reason to start now

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    lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Judith Collins talking has me cursing at the radio almost as much as I did with Simon Bridges.

    Which I thought was going to be a difficult thing to accomplish.

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Judith Collins talking has me cursing at the radio almost as much as I did with Simon Bridges.

    Which I thought was going to be a difficult thing to accomplish.

    What set of the swearing this time?

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    lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Judith Collins talking has me cursing at the radio almost as much as I did with Simon Bridges.

    Which I thought was going to be a difficult thing to accomplish.

    What set of the swearing this time?

    "Obesity is a weakness and fat people need to take personal responsibility"

    *Ensue wild backlash from people about this comment*

    "Well, we shouldn't be talking about that this close to an election! I honestly don't know why you're all so focused on this small unimportant thing I said which was hurtful and dismissive of a large part of our nation. Honestly. Don't you care about the economy?"

    I might be paraphrasing the last bit, but only a little.

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    AntoshkaAntoshka Miauen Oil Change LazarusRegistered User regular
    Judith Collins talking has me cursing at the radio almost as much as I did with Simon Bridges.

    Which I thought was going to be a difficult thing to accomplish.

    What set of the swearing this time?

    "Obesity is a weakness and fat people need to take personal responsibility"

    *Ensue wild backlash from people about this comment*

    "Well, we shouldn't be talking about that this close to an election! I honestly don't know why you're all so focused on this small unimportant thing I said which was hurtful and dismissive of a large part of our nation. Honestly. Don't you care about the economy?"

    I might be paraphrasing the last bit, but only a little.

    "I expressed my opinion in a very public forum, and am now annoyed that people are reacting to that. I was clearly right, so why are people disagreeing? Anyway, it doesn't matter, let's talk about something else", again, then?

    n57PM0C.jpg
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    lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Yeah. That's about what she's doing today.

    After expressing her opinion, repeating it, defending it, getting backed up by another MP, while another MP of hers pushed back by trying to be a bit more nuanced.

    And today she's upset because everybody wants to talk about her being a rude (word) and not the economy.

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    AntoshkaAntoshka Miauen Oil Change LazarusRegistered User regular
    Yeah. That's about what she's doing today.

    After expressing her opinion, repeating it, defending it, getting backed up by another MP, while another MP of hers pushed back by trying to be a bit more nuanced.

    And today she's upset because everybody wants to talk about her being a rude (word) and not the economy.

    I mean, I'd be happy if they'd talk about the economy, as well, but in terms she'd understand.

    "So, your economic plan is utter rubbish, and your opponent's is actually somewhat sensible. Why should anyone at all vote for you, given that you're touting this dreck as the main reason for it?"

    n57PM0C.jpg
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    FishmanFishman Put your goddamned hand in the goddamned Box of Pain. Registered User regular
    Collins was always going to be more unpleasant than Bridges. Bridges is a smug git but a lot of his personality as leader was manufactured, where he seems more decent and moderate before and after. Collins is an acerbic soulless gibbet who pretends not to be a withered dry husk of a person, so it was always going to be a big ask not to want to put your fist into talkback radio with her speaking on the regular.

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    THAC0THAC0 Registered User regular
    TeeMan wrote: »
    Eric Abetz has been a person to avoid listening to at all costs for a long time now, no reason to start now

    Eric Abetz is like a less smooth Christopher Pyne and Christopher Pyne was basically a cup of gravel. I think it's the way guys like that will outright lie but always have this facades of innocence on their face. Like the polite society version of its just a joke bro

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    lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Fishman wrote: »
    Collins was always going to be more unpleasant than Bridges. Bridges is a smug git but a lot of his personality as leader was manufactured, where he seems more decent and moderate before and after. Collins is an acerbic soulless gibbet who pretends not to be a withered dry husk of a person, so it was always going to be a big ask not to want to put your fist into talkback radio with her speaking on the regular.

    it's honestly a relief to have you say that.

    I've been super worried about maybe my distaste for her is some weird internalized misogyny type thing and maybe i'm just reacting weirdly to her because of something.

    it's comforting to know that my initial reaction is pretty measured.

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    TefTef Registered User regular
    edited October 2020
    Best but from the debate tonight:

    Will you stay on as leader if you don’t win the election?

    Ardern: No

    Collins: I’m doing a good job

    Fucking excellent work painting Collins into the corner.

    Not smugging about a Labour win, after Trump and Morrison I don’t count my chickens before they hatch.

    I was weirdly anxious about voting in a unicameral system without preferential voting. I always felt like I had a safety net

    Tef on
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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Fishman wrote: »
    Collins was always going to be more unpleasant than Bridges. Bridges is a smug git but a lot of his personality as leader was manufactured, where he seems more decent and moderate before and after. Collins is an acerbic soulless gibbet who pretends not to be a withered dry husk of a person, so it was always going to be a big ask not to want to put your fist into talkback radio with her speaking on the regular.

    it's honestly a relief to have you say that.

    I've been super worried about maybe my distaste for her is some weird internalized misogyny type thing and maybe i'm just reacting weirdly to her because of something.

    it's comforting to know that my initial reaction is pretty measured.

    I mean, my impression is she's been an arse and always will be an arse. I cant actually recall seeing any signs of empathy or care for the fact we have serious fucking problems in new zealand. Plenty of "Empathy" for rich fuck's bank balances, not so much for the ongoing mental health crisis, poverty, etcera.

    Thoguh frankly i'm super fucking cynical about any politician who picks up a nickname like "Crusher" and acts like it's a good brand to have. (Much like i'm still amazed Key didnt get dragged through the mud by opposition when the man had "The Smiling Assassin" as a nickname from his bank job. I mean good fucking grief)

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    FishmanFishman Put your goddamned hand in the goddamned Box of Pain. Registered User regular
    Fishman wrote: »
    Collins was always going to be more unpleasant than Bridges. Bridges is a smug git but a lot of his personality as leader was manufactured, where he seems more decent and moderate before and after. Collins is an acerbic soulless gibbet who pretends not to be a withered dry husk of a person, so it was always going to be a big ask not to want to put your fist into talkback radio with her speaking on the regular.

    it's honestly a relief to have you say that.

    I've been super worried about maybe my distaste for her is some weird internalized misogyny type thing and maybe i'm just reacting weirdly to her because of something.

    it's comforting to know that my initial reaction is pretty measured.

    I mean, my impression is she's been an arse and always will be an arse. I cant actually recall seeing any signs of empathy or care for the fact we have serious fucking problems in new zealand. Plenty of "Empathy" for rich fuck's bank balances, not so much for the ongoing mental health crisis, poverty, etcera.

    Thoguh frankly i'm super fucking cynical about any politician who picks up a nickname like "Crusher" and acts like it's a good brand to have. (Much like i'm still amazed Key didnt get dragged through the mud by opposition when the man had "The Smiling Assassin" as a nickname from his bank job. I mean good fucking grief)

    Possibly insulated owing to the fact that for a good section of his leadership Key was opposed by a man known as "Silent 'T'" within his own party and shadow caucus because of the respect he engendered and treated people with. People in Glass houses, and all that.

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    FishmanFishman Put your goddamned hand in the goddamned Box of Pain. Registered User regular
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    lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    *vibrates with anxiety*

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    exisexis Registered User regular
    Watched the NZ leaders debate last night. Was promptly reminded while reading coverage afterward by political debates are dumb. Collins' being lauded all over the show for
    Tef wrote: »
    Best but from the debate tonight:

    Will you stay on as leader if you don’t win the election?

    Ardern: No

    Collins: I’m doing a good job

    Fucking excellent work painting Collins into the corner.

    Not smugging about a Labour win, after Trump and Morrison I don’t count my chickens before they hatch.

    I was weirdly anxious about voting in a unicameral system without preferential voting. I always felt like I had a safety net

    To be fair she was brought in months before an election as a last resort PM candidate. It wouldn't make any sense for her to fall on her sword for failing to get in. Collins is making a play for this election but really she's thinking about lasting it out until the next one

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    AntoshkaAntoshka Miauen Oil Change LazarusRegistered User regular
    *vibrates with anxiety*

    Good luck, every one. For those who want the lighter side of election day, The Spinoff is doing their Dogs at Polling Booths series:

    https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/17-10-2020/election-live-october-17-dogs-dogs-and-more-dogs-at-polling-booths/

    n57PM0C.jpg
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    FishmanFishman Put your goddamned hand in the goddamned Box of Pain. Registered User regular
    Antoshka wrote: »
    *vibrates with anxiety*

    Good luck, every one. For those who want the lighter side of election day, The Spinoff is doing their Dogs at Polling Booths series:

    https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/17-10-2020/election-live-october-17-dogs-dogs-and-more-dogs-at-polling-booths/

    My favourite part of this is how Henry Cooke picked it at Stuff:
    Similarly for news media, there are some things that can be printed. We can talk about the fact there is an election, and discuss people going out to vote. We used to bring you photos of the various political leaders casting their ballots, but almost all of them do that early, so instead you are likely to see news featuring dogs at polling stations.


    And also the dogs.

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Dear New Zealand: don't fuck this up

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    Mr RayMr Ray Sarcasm sphereRegistered User regular
    After a terrifying super-spreader incident in which a trucker with COVID decided to go waaaay outside of the 5km area allowed under current guidelines, visit a cafe for a sit-down meal in an area not as tightly restricted and then lie to contact tracers about all of the places he'd been... Victoria's COVID numbers are finally starting to look a bit nicer.
    0cccabek9jt51.png

    I just want to get a haircut, sit down in a cafe for a meal, and then get the longest massage allowed to work out all the knots I've gotten over the past 5 months from basically sitting in the same damn chair all day. Please don't fuck this up, Victoria.

    Oh also, flights from New Zealand to Australia, New South Wales only, are back on and some Kiwis immediately tried to sneak into Victoria. Did you guys... miss lockdown or something?

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    AegeriAegeri Tiny wee bacteriums Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    In fairness, some Kiwis and even NZ Immigration didn’t seem to understand that Australian states can seal themselves off from the rest of the country border wise.

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    FishmanFishman Put your goddamned hand in the goddamned Box of Pain. Registered User regular
    I did a democracy.

    I was literally voting at a street fair. There was a church at one end, a school at the other, and a community hall in the middle which you could all vote at.

    Annoyingly, I arrived and there was no queue, just one person at front talking to someone... but it turned out that person hadn't been updated on the electoral roll, so was out-of-electorate, and needed a lot of assistance, and the person helping was a bit waffly, and the whole thing to get checked took 5 minutes to get through the door, which was the longest part of the process.

    I could have just gone to one of the sites! Or the guy could stop faffing and let me through the door, where the actual vote registration stuff was. But he stood blocking it and didn't wave me through or anything, even though I clearly had my vote card and there were more people inside available to help and now actually a queue of about 8 people growing behind me.

    Anyway, afterwards I had Uzbekistani street food, some handmade pork dumplings, and a lemon curd doughnut at the street fair.

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    GvzbgulGvzbgul Registered User regular
    I took my dog to vote. She didn't seem all that interested.

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    KafkaAUKafkaAU Western AustraliaRegistered User regular
    Mr Ray wrote: »

    I just want to get a haircut, sit down in a cafe for a meal, and then get the longest massage allowed to work out all the knots I've gotten over the past 5 months from basically sitting in the same damn chair all day. Please don't fuck this up, Victoria.

    I invested in a secret lab chair because sitting in my old one was not doing my back any good. Even though I am in WA, company I work for has taken the WFH arrangements and made them normal, shedding a bunch of floor space and WFH being the norm.

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