Gotta say, I'm personally very surprised by people saying this seasons writing has been so bad.
I think this has been the most I've consistently enjoyed a season of Doctor Who in a good long time.
I've not seen all the episodes, but I'm also a bit surprised by that kind of criticism. The writing isn't perfect, but I don't see how it'd be any more substantially bad on the whole than in previous seasons.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
I haven't hated any episodes especially, and I can enjoy Doctor Who under almost any circumstances, but the characterisation of the companions has been pretty thin, the plotting often clumsy, the staging of scenes often kind of bland and the whole season has just felt oddly rudderless, like the showrunner just isn't sure what he's doing.
You can hate or love Moffat or RTD, but you could never accuse them of not knowing what they wanted or of not having a clear idea of the characters they were writing for. I could describe River Song's personality without mentioning her name and you'd know who I meant. Could you do that with Ryan? Could you quickly and easily describe the relationship between the Doctor and her present companions? You could with most of the others. Several people have noted that RTD and Moffat were like kids being given the keys to a sweetshop: they'd wanted in all their lives, and went immediately for what they loved, gorged themselves stupid on Doctor Who and got to play with all the toys they wanted. Couldn't wait to get in. What did Chibnall want the job for, exactly? I don't get the same sense that this is a labour of love for him, and I think it shows on screen.
That report about Chibnall being unhappy may or may not be nonsense, but the idea that producing ten episodes of Doctor Who is 'untenable' is utter garbage. The last couple of guys in charge managed to pump out 13 or 12 every year.
I think most of my criticisms of Moffat and RTD would acknowledge that I didn't like the choices they'd made or the direction they were going. With Chibnall I'm honestly not sure what choices he's making or what direction he's chosen.
I feel like graham and yaz could be all time companions but there’s just not enough there for them to do.
Yaz in particular feels like such a weird character. She’s a cop, like a fairly new cop, and it doesn’t inform her character at all. She could be a chimney sweep for all her previous profession does for the story. It’s such a good hook for character flavor! And basically... forgotten.
Like for the kerblam episode, that story is a perfect yaz episode about her helping to investigate this company. They literally go undercover. But they do nothing with it. Nothing is popping.
She did put that guy in a possibly police-trained restraint hold that one time
Until they broke free for dramatic reasons
[Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
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Zilla36021st Century. |She/Her|Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered Userregular
It has been a good season of episodes thus far, Whittaker is a great Doctor, but nothing aside from 'Rosa' has really stood out as exceptional to me thus far.
Like everything is just 'okay' and nothing more. I went back to some episodes from Capaldi's run (The Magician's Apprentice etc) and was much more engrossed, much more emotionally invested in what was going on.
I can't really pin down one reason why this is either.
I think most of my criticisms of Moffat and RTD would acknowledge that I didn't like the choices they'd made or the direction they were going. With Chibnall I'm honestly not sure what choices he's making or what direction he's chosen.
Maybe it's just the times that we're living in colouring my view but I feel like there's a pretty significant move this season with tackling social issues much more prominently. Rosa, Demons of the Punjab (and Arachnids in the UK to a lesser extent) and this latest episode all felt like they all had big, important things to say.
That's not to say Doctor Who hasn't had strong elements of this before but it definitely feels much more pronounced this season. But, again, could just be me.
I think that aspect has been more front and centre, sure. I think it's been there since the very start of the reboot, but it's more to the fore now.
Rose was deliberately a working class girl with unrealised potential, Martha was deliberately the first companion of colour, Captain Jack was deliberately bi(omni?)sexual, supporting characters were gay, of colour, female:diversity has been a watchword of the show since RTD bought it back, which is lovely. Not to say it's been perfect on that front, but hey ho.
Old school Who had some of this, but it also had a generous helping of patrician lecturing and dodgy foreign stereotypes.
Yeah, for sure. One of the things I've always loved about Who since the reboot was how matter-of-fact everything was. The world of Doctor Who was diverse because that's how the real world is, and it rarely felt like the show was just shoe-horning them in for the sake of it.
I had issues with Moffat from time to time but he wrote pretty stellar episodes, and the show had more life in it. My common criticism was sometimes the pacing was too quick for anything to set in, or there'd be 30 minutes of jabbering and 15 minutes of plot. I'd happily trade what we have now for that, honestly.
The show currently feels like it's taking a nap and is bored with itself. In Kablam, Ryan tried talking like the group was inspired and heroic all of a sudden and how he'll master his fears because of how awesome they all are, and I'm like, "No, man, you guys have been a drag from day 1. Just a big old group of sadness being sad with their sad faces and sad sads."
If those rumors are true that's kinda upsetting because while I am completely on board with Chibnall leaving, I have no desire to see Whittaker leave at all. So that sucks.
I get Chibnall's desire to not have an over-arching plot running through all the episodes of the season to tell smaller, individual stories...but the lack of any sort of development over time on the part of the characters, coupled with the self-contained adventures, makes the whole season feel aimless. I'm pretty sure I could watch any of the episodes after the second (and even that one if not for the bits at the beginning and very ending) without even noticing they were mixed up. The team came together in the first episode and their dynamic and their personal relationships haven't really changed at all since then. The Doctor figured out who she was and has just run with it the rest of the season. That's all fine, I guess, but it leaves the season as a whole feeling like it has no particular identity. The show hasn't really even spent any time exploring the Doctor being female now aside from a throw-away line or two per episode. In five or ten years this'll be "That Whittaker season where she had a bunch of companions. Y'know, Graham and... the other ones..."
Edit: Actually I think I was thinking of the 3rd episode, not the second. The spiders one. Which I feel kinda goes to my point. The only reason that one stands out as coming in any sort of order is because they all go home and then decide not to stay.
Yeah, was talking about this with my sister during the last ep.
We used to complain that the endless “the universe is in peril in a convoluted way” season arcs were repetitive. But now they’re gone and we are just bored.
I’m going to come straight out and say that I don’t believe Jodie is considering leaving. I just don’t see it. She’s thrown herself into vast amounts of promotion, and every time she talks about the show it’s obvious how much she loves it.
The only doctor ever to leave after a year was the one who begrudgingly took the role as a personal favor to his close friend RTD, and however Chibnall feels the BBC can’t be unhappy with either him or Whittaker. The ratings for this season are a smash. The show is a hit.
We used to complain that the endless “the universe is in peril in a convoluted way” season arcs were repetitive. But now they’re gone and we are just bored.
I'm not bored. I like the self-contained stories. I was getting extremely bored by all the arcs at the end. These stories are all wonderfully self-contained. It's like taking a warm bath in a TV show. And I'm really enjoying the sincerity of the writing.
Yeah, I'm definitely not bored. I've liked most of the episodes so far this season. I think Whitaker has done a great job. But I do think as an overall season, there has been a kind of lack of progress/growth. In the season premier, the Doctor was talking about growing/embracing the new, but I don't know if there has been a lot of that. The Doctor does seem to be listening a bit more? Like I feel pre-Whitaker, the Doctor wouldn't have asked the companions what they wanted to do if they had gotten a cryptic note saying "Help Me" like she did in the Kerblam episode. Its different, but I don't know if its really growth.
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett
I feel like we're supposed to just assume that this has been fun for her 3 companions thus far, yet I've seen no evidence that it could be anything of the sort.
The only doctor ever to leave after a year was the one who begrudgingly took the role as a personal favor to his close friend RTD, and however Chibnall feels the BBC can’t be unhappy with either him or Whittaker. The ratings for this season are a smash. The show is a hit.
What are the current ratings, now? I've never looked at British ones before, so I have no idea what's good or bad. I looked at the US ones due to this post and the most recent I could find was November 18th at 745,000 viewers or a 0.3 rating in the 18-49 demo.
That doesn't seem good at all, but the UK ratings seem average to fine when compared to previous seasons.
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I dunno we didn't really have long arcs in Tennant's run and I was perfectly enthralled with everything.
Tennant didn't necessarily have big "save the universe from the big bad" season-long arcs but Tennant's characterization of the Doctor, his relationships with his companions, and the companions' characters grew and changed over the course of any given season. By the end of the witch hunter episode last night I don't feel like Whittaker or any of the companions are any different than they were at the end of episode 1. They go out and have an adventure for the week and...that's it. Nobody changes, nobody learns anything; ready to roll for next week's adventure from the same status quo.
I know this is basically how TV used to work for everything outside of limited series events or maybe soap operas but I guess I'm spoiled by years of character and story arcs all over my TV. Actually-episodic content just feels weird and shallow now.
The only doctor ever to leave after a year was the one who begrudgingly took the role as a personal favor to his close friend RTD, and however Chibnall feels the BBC can’t be unhappy with either him or Whittaker. The ratings for this season are a smash. The show is a hit.
What are the current ratings, now? I've never looked at British ones before, so I have no idea what's good or bad. I looked at the US ones due to this post and the most recent I could find was November 18th at 745,000 viewers or a 0.3 rating in the 18-49 demo.
That doesn't seem good at all, but the UK ratings seem average to fine when compared to previous seasons.
The week before last they were the highest ratings the show had ever had since 1982. They've been beating out the Tennant years.
If you compare viewership to Capaldi's run, it's significantly higher. The premiere is nearly double.
If you compare it to Tennant's run, Tennant's run is all over the place so it's a difficult metric to follow. Averages for Seasons 2, 3, and 4 were 7.71, 7.55, and 8.05 million UK viewers, respectively.
"Kerblam!" had 7.46 million UK viewers, the lowest of this season, which is strictly not better than Tennant's average, but also isn't Whittaker's average. Each episode has had less viewers, though.
EDIT: Source: Wikipedia
The page address is all fucky so it won't let me link it, but I trust you folks know how to put words into search bars and click buttons.
For this series they’ve consistently been up on most of the years of both Tennant and Capaldi. Last week wasn’t the highest since 1982, though.
You can check the ratings on wiki.
I did. I had some time to check the wiki's and news articles between my first post asking the ratings and that post, so that reply to Desktop was already knowing the answer, but wanting to know where they got their info from.
The show's doing fine. The ratings are on a sadly downward trend, losing almost 3.5 million since the premiere. Even with that loss, they're still solid, though....if the downward trend stops.
I love ratings, will be curious to see how it does. At the very least, a finale will bump them.
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Every series shows a downward trend after the premiere. This one is no different. The first episode, the first to feature a female Doctor, was understandably a big event, just like every other Doctor's first episode was a big event.
Every series shows a downward trend after the premiere. This one is no different. The first episode, the first to feature a female Doctor, was understandably a big event, just like every other Doctor's first episode was a big event.
The ratings aren't a problem this season.
Yes, that's what I said Bogart. The show's doing fine. If it's in trouble, one wouldn't even be able to ascertain that until the season is complete, anyways, due to the current ratings.
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24 hours later and still thinking about how Kerblam's big final message from the good guys is
we're going to make sure its thinking feeling human beings trapped here doing this shitty work that we hate
Yeah, its pretty obvious what they were going for, and they put in the line about
work being a way that humans feel fulfilled, which would work better if they chose some task/work that isn't repetitive and mind numbing. I think it would have worked better if it was some kind of creative job (say an artist) that was replaced by some kind of AI/procedurally generated because they could be produced quicker and sold more.
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett
24 hours later and still thinking about how Kerblam's big final message from the good guys is
we're going to make sure its thinking feeling human beings trapped here doing this shitty work that we hate
It was more
we're going to employ flesh and blood people now, who will get the opportunity for terrible jobs so they have money to go homeless. Which is a step up from everyone in the galaxy being unemployed.
Every series shows a downward trend after the premiere. This one is no different. The first episode, the first to feature a female Doctor, was understandably a big event, just like every other Doctor's first episode was a big event.
The ratings aren't a problem this season.
Yes, that's what I said Bogart. The show's doing fine. If it's in trouble, one wouldn't even be able to ascertain that until the season is complete, anyways, due to the current ratings.
The ratings were always going to be high, and its been deliberately put this was as this is the first time the ratings system has included other devices outside of TV viewing figures. Barb the company who does the ratings started the change a month before the season opener. Once you take that into account the season outside of the first episode are actually on par with other seasons and the downward trends. If you consider the larger budget, marketing budget, reduction in episodes and removal of the big Christmas Day special, it wouldn't surprise me if the BBC had set unrealistic targets for the show.
My argument is while the rating are high, I don't think its as high as the BBC wants.
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MichaelLCIn what furnace was thy brain?ChicagoRegistered Userregular
To me, every episode seems like their first trip in the TARDIS. Like they're still in the shock phase and haven't moved into wow this is amazing/terrifying.
They're just clomping through time & space? I guess it goes back to the earlier comments of not knowing anything about them, including the Doctor.
Perhaps I'm mis-remembering previous series but the TARDIS was always presented as an environmental setting, a plot tool and even a character in her own right. So far this series, it's just been used as a device to deliver the cast into an episode setting.
It feels as though the writing is dismissing one of the best aspects of the show, is what I'm trying to say.
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24 hours later and still thinking about how Kerblam's big final message from the good guys is
we're going to make sure its thinking feeling human beings trapped here doing this shitty work that we hate
Yeah, its pretty obvious what they were going for, and they put in the line about
work being a way that humans feel fulfilled, which would work better if they chose some task/work that isn't repetitive and mind numbing. I think it would have worked better if it was some kind of creative job (say an artist) that was replaced by some kind of AI/procedurally generated because they could be produced quicker and sold more.
There's such an abrupt message and tone shift in the last act that it feels like someone else stepped in.
Perhaps I'm mis-remembering previous series but the TARDIS was always presented as an environmental setting, a plot tool and even a character in her own right. So far this series, it's just been used as a device to deliver the cast into an episode setting.
It feels as though the writing is dismissing one of the best aspects of the show, is what I'm trying to say.
I don't think that's always been the case with regards to the TARDIS in previous seasons, there were plenty of long stretches where it was just there also. And I feel like there have been small smatterings of that this season, like the end of episode 2 when the TARDIS reappeared, and there was another scene where the Doctor referred to the TARDIS as "her" and the companions looked on in confusion.
The Tardis has seemed to be less of a place where things happen this season. I don't have a clear idea of the geography of it in my head, because no scene has really happened there beyond people standing round the console. The last two Doctors have had split level Tardises and plenty of scenes between the Doctor and his companions inside it, confrontations, arguments, actual episodes set inside it, etc.
It's not necessarily a criticism, just an observation.
Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
edited November 2018
The new TARDIS looks expensive, I'm surprised they're not spending more time in there. Only noticed in these last couple episodes that the pillars move - the top where they all end in lil spider legs, those things pivot up and down, aimed at the crystal in the centre console, creating the effect that they're moving it with invisible strings. That's a cool detail, that's gotten absolutely no focus at all.
Ooh neat, the Doctor is getting a costume addition for the New Year's Special
There's been plenty of stories where the TARDIS has been a central or significant element to the plot. And there have certainly been plenty of stories where the writers quickly shoo it away because it can solve the problem of the week in 2 seconds.
I love Waters of Mars for exactly this. After the Doctor decides to start blatantly cheating, his solution to the problem is literally "get the TARDIS".
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"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
I don’t think moffat/davies we’re perfect at all, but when they were humming along there was a crackle to them that I haven’t felt at all yet.
You can hate or love Moffat or RTD, but you could never accuse them of not knowing what they wanted or of not having a clear idea of the characters they were writing for. I could describe River Song's personality without mentioning her name and you'd know who I meant. Could you do that with Ryan? Could you quickly and easily describe the relationship between the Doctor and her present companions? You could with most of the others. Several people have noted that RTD and Moffat were like kids being given the keys to a sweetshop: they'd wanted in all their lives, and went immediately for what they loved, gorged themselves stupid on Doctor Who and got to play with all the toys they wanted. Couldn't wait to get in. What did Chibnall want the job for, exactly? I don't get the same sense that this is a labour of love for him, and I think it shows on screen.
That report about Chibnall being unhappy may or may not be nonsense, but the idea that producing ten episodes of Doctor Who is 'untenable' is utter garbage. The last couple of guys in charge managed to pump out 13 or 12 every year.
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Yaz in particular feels like such a weird character. She’s a cop, like a fairly new cop, and it doesn’t inform her character at all. She could be a chimney sweep for all her previous profession does for the story. It’s such a good hook for character flavor! And basically... forgotten.
Like for the kerblam episode, that story is a perfect yaz episode about her helping to investigate this company. They literally go undercover. But they do nothing with it. Nothing is popping.
Until they broke free for dramatic reasons
Like everything is just 'okay' and nothing more. I went back to some episodes from Capaldi's run (The Magician's Apprentice etc) and was much more engrossed, much more emotionally invested in what was going on.
I can't really pin down one reason why this is either.
Maybe it's just the times that we're living in colouring my view but I feel like there's a pretty significant move this season with tackling social issues much more prominently. Rosa, Demons of the Punjab (and Arachnids in the UK to a lesser extent) and this latest episode all felt like they all had big, important things to say.
That's not to say Doctor Who hasn't had strong elements of this before but it definitely feels much more pronounced this season. But, again, could just be me.
Rose was deliberately a working class girl with unrealised potential, Martha was deliberately the first companion of colour, Captain Jack was deliberately bi(omni?)sexual, supporting characters were gay, of colour, female:diversity has been a watchword of the show since RTD bought it back, which is lovely. Not to say it's been perfect on that front, but hey ho.
Old school Who had some of this, but it also had a generous helping of patrician lecturing and dodgy foreign stereotypes.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
The show currently feels like it's taking a nap and is bored with itself. In Kablam, Ryan tried talking like the group was inspired and heroic all of a sudden and how he'll master his fears because of how awesome they all are, and I'm like, "No, man, you guys have been a drag from day 1. Just a big old group of sadness being sad with their sad faces and sad sads."
If those rumors are true that's kinda upsetting because while I am completely on board with Chibnall leaving, I have no desire to see Whittaker leave at all. So that sucks.
Edit: Actually I think I was thinking of the 3rd episode, not the second. The spiders one. Which I feel kinda goes to my point. The only reason that one stands out as coming in any sort of order is because they all go home and then decide not to stay.
We used to complain that the endless “the universe is in peril in a convoluted way” season arcs were repetitive. But now they’re gone and we are just bored.
The only doctor ever to leave after a year was the one who begrudgingly took the role as a personal favor to his close friend RTD, and however Chibnall feels the BBC can’t be unhappy with either him or Whittaker. The ratings for this season are a smash. The show is a hit.
I'm not bored. I like the self-contained stories. I was getting extremely bored by all the arcs at the end. These stories are all wonderfully self-contained. It's like taking a warm bath in a TV show. And I'm really enjoying the sincerity of the writing.
That doesn't seem good at all, but the UK ratings seem average to fine when compared to previous seasons.
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Tennant didn't necessarily have big "save the universe from the big bad" season-long arcs but Tennant's characterization of the Doctor, his relationships with his companions, and the companions' characters grew and changed over the course of any given season. By the end of the witch hunter episode last night I don't feel like Whittaker or any of the companions are any different than they were at the end of episode 1. They go out and have an adventure for the week and...that's it. Nobody changes, nobody learns anything; ready to roll for next week's adventure from the same status quo.
I know this is basically how TV used to work for everything outside of limited series events or maybe soap operas but I guess I'm spoiled by years of character and story arcs all over my TV. Actually-episodic content just feels weird and shallow now.
The week before last they were the highest ratings the show had ever had since 1982. They've been beating out the Tennant years.
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You can check the ratings on wiki.
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If you compare it to Tennant's run, Tennant's run is all over the place so it's a difficult metric to follow. Averages for Seasons 2, 3, and 4 were 7.71, 7.55, and 8.05 million UK viewers, respectively.
"Kerblam!" had 7.46 million UK viewers, the lowest of this season, which is strictly not better than Tennant's average, but also isn't Whittaker's average. Each episode has had less viewers, though.
EDIT: Source: Wikipedia
The page address is all fucky so it won't let me link it, but I trust you folks know how to put words into search bars and click buttons.
I did. I had some time to check the wiki's and news articles between my first post asking the ratings and that post, so that reply to Desktop was already knowing the answer, but wanting to know where they got their info from.
The show's doing fine. The ratings are on a sadly downward trend, losing almost 3.5 million since the premiere. Even with that loss, they're still solid, though....if the downward trend stops.
I love ratings, will be curious to see how it does. At the very least, a finale will bump them.
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The ratings aren't a problem this season.
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Yes, that's what I said Bogart. The show's doing fine. If it's in trouble, one wouldn't even be able to ascertain that until the season is complete, anyways, due to the current ratings.
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Yeah, its pretty obvious what they were going for, and they put in the line about
It was more
The ratings were always going to be high, and its been deliberately put this was as this is the first time the ratings system has included other devices outside of TV viewing figures. Barb the company who does the ratings started the change a month before the season opener. Once you take that into account the season outside of the first episode are actually on par with other seasons and the downward trends. If you consider the larger budget, marketing budget, reduction in episodes and removal of the big Christmas Day special, it wouldn't surprise me if the BBC had set unrealistic targets for the show.
My argument is while the rating are high, I don't think its as high as the BBC wants.
They're just clomping through time & space? I guess it goes back to the earlier comments of not knowing anything about them, including the Doctor.
It feels as though the writing is dismissing one of the best aspects of the show, is what I'm trying to say.
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There's such an abrupt message and tone shift in the last act that it feels like someone else stepped in.
I don't think that's always been the case with regards to the TARDIS in previous seasons, there were plenty of long stretches where it was just there also. And I feel like there have been small smatterings of that this season, like the end of episode 2 when the TARDIS reappeared, and there was another scene where the Doctor referred to the TARDIS as "her" and the companions looked on in confusion.
It's not necessarily a criticism, just an observation.
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Ooh neat, the Doctor is getting a costume addition for the New Year's Special
I love Waters of Mars for exactly this. After the Doctor decides to start blatantly cheating, his solution to the problem is literally "get the TARDIS".