So do sword characters have priority on every move ever as a general rule? I thought ROB and Ridley's nairs were supposed to be good for spacing but any time I try for them I instantly get stabbed and interrupted.
When two attacks hit each other, there are four possible outcomes:
You win. They get hit, you don't.
You clash. Nobody takes damage.
You trade. You both get hit.
You lose. You get hit, they don't.
Swords can only win or clash; they never trade or lose. Link's nair is an example of an attack that trades a lot and tends to lose to swords.
I imagined that there'd be some amount of special property flagging on moves, which swords is a kind of.
For instance, one of the obtuse things in Arc System Works games like Blazblue or Dragon Ball is that any attack can have one or more "attributes" associated with it. For instance, many aerial attacks have the "head" attribute, and many ground-based anti-air attacks have "head" invulnerability for some period of the attack. This means that regardless of hitboxes, within some time frame, many aerial attacks will just lose to those anti-air attacks. That you have magic/sword/fire/explosion/weapon/etc. traits all mentioned as specific things affected by Spirits makes me wonder if there are more attributes affecting attack interactions in Smash.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Swords almost never trade because they are disjointed hit boxes, whereas most moves in the game have the hit box right next to the hurt box.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Hit vs lose for attacks slamming into each other is based on damage differences, right? Like if one move does a certain percentage higher than another move, it just beats the other move?
Like in theory let's say Ganondorf's jab does 13 damage (which I think it actually might after modifiers), that would just straight beat someone whose jab only does 1 damage, assuming they come out simultaneously?
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
If I weren't about to head to bed, I'd offer my best attempt at a summary, but since I only have time for a post-and-run, the Smash Wiki has a pretty extensive article on the concept of "Priority" in Smash here: https://www.ssbwiki.com/Priority .
But the simplest and most applicable rule is that a grounded attack that does 9% more damage than another incoming attack will continue through and hit the enemy. Attacks that are within 9% damage of each other will bounce off of each other.
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
I've entered myself into a strict training regiment of requiring being able to beat every character's level 9 CPU with a character before I take them online
the first one that I haven't beat on the first try as Richter is Jiggypuff, who is wrecking my ass
One of the only things about the short-hop attack shortcut is that some of those come out with less-than-ideal timing
Like if you want to jump smash somebody in the head with Ganon's FAir, great, it will get that out with the quickness. But if you want to use it for shield pressure, it actually comes out slightly too early! So in some cases it's best to short hop manually and get that hit closer to the end of your jump, if you can
Same thing for Isabelle's slingshot. If you short-hop into a FAir, it will sail right over some character's heads at the range where it does the most knockback, so the shortcut isn't a perfect solution and you can't rely exclusively on it
I think I'm getting better at using his downtilt to just go "whoops I am suddenly all up in your face" and then hit em with a "SURPRISE actually I'm not anymore I'm heading over here like an exquisite dolphin"
I only fuck up and launch myself straight off the stage...60% of the time now
Priority works on a damage system. If your attack deals more than 9% damage than the incoming attack, you win and your attack goes through. If both attacks are within that range, you both "clank" and nothing happens except maybe the two characters move a bit away from each other. Swords and other weapons absolutely can lose, but they rarely do because they are "disjointed" or they have no hitbox attached to them. This is safer since a punch attack means your hurtbox is attached to it so you can be damage when punching.
This gets muddied by a lot of stuff. For one, some attacks make that part of the body invincible, making them technically disjointed since there's no vulnerable hurtbox. There is also a special property called "transcendent" which absolutely cannot lose, clank, or otherwise. This does mean, however, that the move will not protect you from other moves, so it allows for simultaneous attacks on two opposing players.
Aerials are also special, and don't clank or the like. An aerial and ground attack clashing will result in both moves going through. The exception to this is projectiles, where a sufficiently strong aerial can ignore a projectile. Weaker aerials just have both attacks go through (meaning the aerial character will likely eat the hit).
There's a lot of other weirdness to it, but that's the basics. People just use priority as a shorthand for moves with properties that make them hard to stop (disjoints, aerials, anything Brawl Metaknight does).
One of the only things about the short-hop attack shortcut is that some of those come out with less-than-ideal timing
Like if you want to jump smash somebody in the head with Ganon's FAir, great, it will get that out with the quickness. But if you want to use it for shield pressure, it actually comes out slightly too early! So in some cases it's best to short hop manually and get that hit closer to the end of your jump, if you can
Same thing for Isabelle's slingshot. If you short-hop into a FAir, it will sail right over some character's heads at the range where it does the most knockback, so the shortcut isn't a perfect solution and you can't rely exclusively on it
I wish that timing thing mattered for Chrom NAir!
Everyday we stray further from God's light Steam Switch FC: 2799-7909-4852
So, is K Rool actually secretly bad, or is it just me who doesn’t know how to deal with people like Falcon and Sheik, who know how to punch me in the face before any of those lauded armor frames come out?
Being 100% unable to land a grab with any reliability isn’t helping me none, either.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
So, is K Rool actually secretly bad, or is it just me who doesn’t know how to deal with people like Falcon and Sheik, who know how to punch me in the face before any of those lauded armor frames come out?
Being 100% unable to land a grab with any reliability isn’t helping me none, either.
Use your projectiles. A lot. And your moves with super armor. Abuse them. And use your tilts.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
characters I can shut most of my brain off but still have moments of brilliance make it look really cool in motion but makes me very bad at giving any tips
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
other K rool tips
Your up smash does huge knockback on the jump, and when you topple forward it also hits
Down throw into Fsmash works on larger characters. But a number of small characters are too small and you need D tilt or D smash.
Use your tilts more than your smashes. Uptilt is good for combos on people a platform above and for spacing. Ftilt can KO and has the best reach of your melee shots. D tilt extends forward and pushes the enemy in the ground.
Use the vortex just out of the melee range of their recovery and you have 50/50 mixup whether they eat the vortex or you slap their jump.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Your up smash does huge knockback on the jump, and when you topple forward it also hits
Down throw into Fsmash works on larger characters. But a number of small characters are too small and you need D tilt or D smash.
Use your tilts more than your smashes. Uptilt is good for combos on people a platform above and for spacing. Ftilt can KO and has the best reach of your melee shots. D tilt extends forward and pushes the enemy in the ground.
Use the vortex just out of the melee range of their recovery and you have 50/50 mixup whether they eat the vortex or you slap their jump.
down throw down/forward smash isnt reliable in general if they mash hard enough and it is absolutely not a true combo on anyone no matter size, but down throw up tilt almost always connects. even if they do pop out they usually are in the direct path of it and it kills around 120 depending on weight of opponent and how close to the edge you are
if you ever land a down tilt bury they should be dead to a free Fsmash
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Your up smash does huge knockback on the jump, and when you topple forward it also hits
Down throw into Fsmash works on larger characters. But a number of small characters are too small and you need D tilt or D smash.
Use your tilts more than your smashes. Uptilt is good for combos on people a platform above and for spacing. Ftilt can KO and has the best reach of your melee shots. D tilt extends forward and pushes the enemy in the ground.
Use the vortex just out of the melee range of their recovery and you have 50/50 mixup whether they eat the vortex or you slap their jump.
down throw down/forward smash isnt reliable in general if they mash hard enough and it is absolutely not a true combo on anyone no matter size, but down throw up tilt almost always connects. even if they do pop out they usually are in the direct path of it and it kills around 120 depending on weight of opponent and how close to the edge you are
if you ever land a down tilt bury they should be dead to a free Fsmash
F-smash never lands on smaller characters that are buried. I had it completely whiff on Pikachu, for example.
EDIT: It might connect if you angle it down a little, but I have not tried that.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
you should just never go for smash after down throw unless you know your opponent is an idiot and wont mash out of the Dsmash
they do not combo unless your opponent allows them to, always up tilt for consistency
if you're talking down tilt fsmash that seems to put their hitbox at a different position than down throw which puts them upside down in the ground, and fsmash should work in this case
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
you should just never go for smash after down throw unless you know your opponent is an idiot and wont mash out of the Dsmash
they do not combo unless your opponent allows them to, always up tilt for consistency
if you're talking down tilt fsmash that seems to put their hitbox at a different position than down throw which puts them upside down in the ground, and fsmash should work in this case
At about 120% your dsmash hits. And if they always mash out jump you can kill with an Fair.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
The strategy of "if they aren't going to punish electroshock hammer, i'm not going to stop doing it" still works around the 1.5 million range.
Everyday we stray further from God's light Steam Switch FC: 2799-7909-4852
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Galaga is probably the most infuriating item if you get distracted and whoops guess you lose haha welp
I saw in a tooltip that you have to waggle the stick to escape, mashing buttons doesn't do anything
that makes it way less irritating but still bullshit
If that’s the case, then the best way to do it is a 360 motion because the way Smash tends to read stick inputs is each direction is one point, so rapidly going in a circle gets more inputs than just waggling
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Use the vortex just out of the melee range of their recovery and you have 50/50 mixup whether they eat the vortex or you slap their jump.
What's the vortex?
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Use the vortex just out of the melee range of their recovery and you have 50/50 mixup whether they eat the vortex or you slap their jump.
What's the vortex?
Neutral B after firing out a kannon ball. It stops most nonprojrctile attacks and launches them back off the stage, where they belong
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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PaperLuigi44My amazement is at maximum capacity.Registered Userregular
Took me a couple dozen tries, but I beat 9 and 18 Volt. I ended up using Fox with Captain Rainbow (invincibility on first hit), and had assist-killer/item gravitation, spammed his blaster to get the first hit, killed the trophy with a forward smash, and chased down the Galaxians. Truth is the trophy kill was a lucky coincidence, but an appreciated one. Somebody was having a bad day when they programmed that match.
If K. Rool does the musket vacuum in midair while falling, and you run under him with ROB and upsmash, you will magically teleport into the barrel of the gun and fail to get the attack off.
I tried it two more times because I was so sure there had been some mistake. Infuriating.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
If K. Rool does the musket vacuum in midair while falling, and you run under him with ROB and upsmash, you will magically teleport into the barrel of the gun and fail to get the attack off.
I tried it two more times because I was so sure there had been some mistake. Infuriating.
It may surprise you just how many people I have faced so far keep doing the same sort of thing and going into the musket.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Conversely if you're in the air it doesn't do crap. You can always jump over it from the ledge, or attack downward from above. Truly bizarre set of properties on that thing.
I miss the cutscenes and character interactions of Subspace Emissary but this one was a lot more fun to actually play
And man
That final stretch was just the most "Oh right Smash Brothers is the weirdest and coolest game that should not exist ever"
Sure, why not do a boss rush where I have to fight my way through Giga Bowser, Ganon, That Tank Robot, Marx, a Rathalos and fucking Dracula before taking down cosmic embodiments of Light and Darkness at the same time.
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I imagined that there'd be some amount of special property flagging on moves, which swords is a kind of.
For instance, one of the obtuse things in Arc System Works games like Blazblue or Dragon Ball is that any attack can have one or more "attributes" associated with it. For instance, many aerial attacks have the "head" attribute, and many ground-based anti-air attacks have "head" invulnerability for some period of the attack. This means that regardless of hitboxes, within some time frame, many aerial attacks will just lose to those anti-air attacks. That you have magic/sword/fire/explosion/weapon/etc. traits all mentioned as specific things affected by Spirits makes me wonder if there are more attributes affecting attack interactions in Smash.
Like in theory let's say Ganondorf's jab does 13 damage (which I think it actually might after modifiers), that would just straight beat someone whose jab only does 1 damage, assuming they come out simultaneously?
the beetle thing is worse. The Galaga is big and obvious, while the beetle robot thingy is just..... fast and ruthless.
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I had a lucario do that to me in a rematch where it got his rules set.
Except he had items on and I was Metaknight so I just went "lawl" and ran around the stage and KO'd him 4 times in 3 minutes.
But the simplest and most applicable rule is that a grounded attack that does 9% more damage than another incoming attack will continue through and hit the enemy. Attacks that are within 9% damage of each other will bounce off of each other.
I was genuinely shocked when
the first one that I haven't beat on the first try as Richter is Jiggypuff, who is wrecking my ass
Like if you want to jump smash somebody in the head with Ganon's FAir, great, it will get that out with the quickness. But if you want to use it for shield pressure, it actually comes out slightly too early! So in some cases it's best to short hop manually and get that hit closer to the end of your jump, if you can
Same thing for Isabelle's slingshot. If you short-hop into a FAir, it will sail right over some character's heads at the range where it does the most knockback, so the shortcut isn't a perfect solution and you can't rely exclusively on it
I think I'm getting better at using his downtilt to just go "whoops I am suddenly all up in your face" and then hit em with a "SURPRISE actually I'm not anymore I'm heading over here like an exquisite dolphin"
I only fuck up and launch myself straight off the stage...60% of the time now
Resetti
Steam Switch FC: 2799-7909-4852
Priority works on a damage system. If your attack deals more than 9% damage than the incoming attack, you win and your attack goes through. If both attacks are within that range, you both "clank" and nothing happens except maybe the two characters move a bit away from each other. Swords and other weapons absolutely can lose, but they rarely do because they are "disjointed" or they have no hitbox attached to them. This is safer since a punch attack means your hurtbox is attached to it so you can be damage when punching.
This gets muddied by a lot of stuff. For one, some attacks make that part of the body invincible, making them technically disjointed since there's no vulnerable hurtbox. There is also a special property called "transcendent" which absolutely cannot lose, clank, or otherwise. This does mean, however, that the move will not protect you from other moves, so it allows for simultaneous attacks on two opposing players.
Aerials are also special, and don't clank or the like. An aerial and ground attack clashing will result in both moves going through. The exception to this is projectiles, where a sufficiently strong aerial can ignore a projectile. Weaker aerials just have both attacks go through (meaning the aerial character will likely eat the hit).
There's a lot of other weirdness to it, but that's the basics. People just use priority as a shorthand for moves with properties that make them hard to stop (disjoints, aerials, anything Brawl Metaknight does).
I wish that timing thing mattered for Chrom NAir!
Steam Switch FC: 2799-7909-4852
Snake demanding that Luigi gets more respect
Snake and Otacon dorking out about how cool Captain Falcon is
Snake referring to Jigglypuff as "a big walking eyeball"
Being 100% unable to land a grab with any reliability isn’t helping me none, either.
Use your projectiles. A lot. And your moves with super armor. Abuse them. And use your tilts.
how much I don't know I just kinda do stuff
characters I can shut most of my brain off but still have moments of brilliance make it look really cool in motion but makes me very bad at giving any tips
After a certain % it breaks.
Your up smash does huge knockback on the jump, and when you topple forward it also hits
Down throw into Fsmash works on larger characters. But a number of small characters are too small and you need D tilt or D smash.
Use your tilts more than your smashes. Uptilt is good for combos on people a platform above and for spacing. Ftilt can KO and has the best reach of your melee shots. D tilt extends forward and pushes the enemy in the ground.
Use the vortex just out of the melee range of their recovery and you have 50/50 mixup whether they eat the vortex or you slap their jump.
down throw down/forward smash isnt reliable in general if they mash hard enough and it is absolutely not a true combo on anyone no matter size, but down throw up tilt almost always connects. even if they do pop out they usually are in the direct path of it and it kills around 120 depending on weight of opponent and how close to the edge you are
if you ever land a down tilt bury they should be dead to a free Fsmash
F-smash never lands on smaller characters that are buried. I had it completely whiff on Pikachu, for example.
EDIT: It might connect if you angle it down a little, but I have not tried that.
they do not combo unless your opponent allows them to, always up tilt for consistency
if you're talking down tilt fsmash that seems to put their hitbox at a different position than down throw which puts them upside down in the ground, and fsmash should work in this case
At about 120% your dsmash hits. And if they always mash out jump you can kill with an Fair.
I saw in a tooltip that you have to waggle the stick to escape, mashing buttons doesn't do anything
that makes it way less irritating but still bullshit
The strategy of "if they aren't going to punish electroshock hammer, i'm not going to stop doing it" still works around the 1.5 million range.
Steam Switch FC: 2799-7909-4852
If that’s the case, then the best way to do it is a 360 motion because the way Smash tends to read stick inputs is each direction is one point, so rapidly going in a circle gets more inputs than just waggling
What's the vortex?
Neutral B after firing out a kannon ball. It stops most nonprojrctile attacks and launches them back off the stage, where they belong
I tried it two more times because I was so sure there had been some mistake. Infuriating.
It may surprise you just how many people I have faced so far keep doing the same sort of thing and going into the musket.
That was real neat!
I miss the cutscenes and character interactions of Subspace Emissary but this one was a lot more fun to actually play
And man
That final stretch was just the most "Oh right Smash Brothers is the weirdest and coolest game that should not exist ever"
All as Ken from Street Fighter.
Just
God I love these games