Think you're gonna have to define "fucked up". Didn't one of the books imply that some folks in the culture basically live inside simulations where they're super duper awesome ego stroking power fantasies all play out? I seem to recall that and it was just a way people lived. So gonna need some sort of definition on what fucking up your life compared to that would look like.
One thing that I don't remember seeing is the Culture considering actions taken while glanded on something as morally different than sober ones. Doesn't seem like a society where "I was an asshole but I was drunk/high/whatever" would mean much as an excuse to folks.
General rule of thumb seems to be "can they breed with other "humans"" with minimal medical intervention beyond the already common place gene fixing and modification.
IIRC, the protsginist from Surface Detail gets a brief aside how what's a standard attractive body shape for her culture differs from an offplanet one.
Yea her people found short, thicc women to be the ideal iirc, where as in another book a guys going nuts over a super skinny 4 eyed lady (who didn't naturally have 4 eyes, just mods)
People in the culture seem accepting of basically anything though
Use of Weapons has an outsider who lives in the Culture and looks nothing even vaguely like "normal" and fits in just fine.
Given what Culture citizens can gland I wonder how they don't just Skinner box themselves into oblivion on the good stuff.
I mean basically the same way the handle everything, pairing infinite resources with humble desires.
Also, what kind of gene fixing leaves you vulnerable to chemical addiction?
Well, if you can tailor make drugs fine tuned to produce the exact effect you wanted, I assume you can also make them without all the negative affects of heroin/meth/cocaine. So chemical addiction wouldn't likely come into it anyways.
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
One of the books goes into it a bit and the gist is that if a large % of the population chooses to live in simulations or gland drugs all the time then it is a sign to the Minds that there need to be structural changes made so people can live fulfilling lives without the use of these coping mechanisms.
Excession also has the guy who'd rather be an affronter than human, which can be considered "fucked up".
The Culture even had a more euphemistic term for it along the lines of "major life form change" that meant he had to do the equivalent of wait a long period of time while expressing interest before any Mind would deign to assist him do so.
One of the books goes into it a bit and the gist is that if a large % of the population chooses to live in simulations or gland drugs all the time then it is a sign to the Minds that there need to be structural changes made so people can live fulfilling lives without the use of these coping mechanisms.
Yeah, though given that the Culture is huge enough there is probably an eccentric Mind in the Ulterior somewhere running an Orbital as a giant opium den, if that’s really how you wanted to live.
Excession also has the guy who'd rather be an affronter than human, which can be considered "fucked up".
The Culture even had a more euphemistic term for it along the lines of "major life form change" that meant he had to do the equivalent of wait a long period of time while expressing interest before any Mind would deign to assist him do so.
Thing that was the dude in Matter who turned himself into a spider bot sort of thing. Affronter dude basically asked for it as a bribe for doing something that some Minds wanted him to do.
Which puts the lie to another thing about the Culture...
I'm surprised their aren't more people in the Culture series running around with all sorts of field manipulators and AG harnesses just built into their bodies.
I'm surprised their aren't more people in the Culture series running around with all sorts of field manipulators and AG harnesses just built into their bodies.
I'd want to get turned into a Mind.
Which, I feel, Minds would find several different versions of distasteful, if not close to heretical.
I'm surprised their aren't more people in the Culture series running around with all sorts of field manipulators and AG harnesses just built into their bodies.
I'd want to get turned into a Mind.
Which, I feel, Minds would find several different versions of distasteful, if not close to heretical.
More like kind of pointless? If I recall there are drones that get turned into Minds over time, but any particular mind-uploaded human can just run constantly as one of millions of subprocesses on a Mind. There wouldn’t be much of an intelligible sense in which a human could become a Mind that would be different than a Mind simply incorporating your memories into it.
I'm surprised their aren't more people in the Culture series running around with all sorts of field manipulators and AG harnesses just built into their bodies.
I'd want to get turned into a Mind.
Which, I feel, Minds would find several different versions of distasteful, if not close to heretical.
More like kind of pointless? If I recall there are drones that get turned into Minds over time, but any particular mind-uploaded human can just run constantly as one of millions of subprocesses on a Mind. There wouldn’t be much of an intelligible sense in which a human could become a Mind that would be different than a Mind simply incorporating your memories into it.
Naw, I wanna grow to be the whole thing, which means not be a human anymore.
Like either have it built around me, or slowly bring it online so I can stay in charge.
I'm surprised their aren't more people in the Culture series running around with all sorts of field manipulators and AG harnesses just built into their bodies.
I'd want to get turned into a Mind.
Which, I feel, Minds would find several different versions of distasteful, if not close to heretical.
More like kind of pointless? If I recall there are drones that get turned into Minds over time, but any particular mind-uploaded human can just run constantly as one of millions of subprocesses on a Mind. There wouldn’t be much of an intelligible sense in which a human could become a Mind that would be different than a Mind simply incorporating your memories into it.
Naw, I wanna grow to be the whole thing, which means not be a human anymore.
Like either have it built around me, or slowly bring it online so I can stay in charge.
I imagine this is the part the Minds would find distasteful
Given what Culture citizens can gland I wonder how they don't just Skinner box themselves into oblivion on the good stuff.
I mean basically the same way the handle everything, pairing infinite resources with humble desires.
Also, what kind of gene fixing leaves you vulnerable to chemical addiction?
Well, if you can tailor make drugs fine tuned to produce the exact effect you wanted, I assume you can also make them without all the negative affects of heroin/meth/cocaine. So chemical addiction wouldn't likely come into it anyways.
I might be wrong but I'm under the impression that their drug glands produce specific compounds, not whatever they think up and its unlikely they'd find a mind that wants to hook them up with "dangerous opiate hormones"
0
BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
Given what Culture citizens can gland I wonder how they don't just Skinner box themselves into oblivion on the good stuff.
I mean basically the same way the handle everything, pairing infinite resources with humble desires.
Also, what kind of gene fixing leaves you vulnerable to chemical addiction?
Well, if you can tailor make drugs fine tuned to produce the exact effect you wanted, I assume you can also make them without all the negative affects of heroin/meth/cocaine. So chemical addiction wouldn't likely come into it anyways.
I might be wrong but I'm under the impression that their drug glands produce specific compounds, not whatever they think up and its unlikely they'd find a mind that wants to hook them up with "dangerous opiate hormones"
Yeah, but a bunch of people have already tried glanding all sorts of shit, so unless you are a pioneer of drugs, you just ask someone else how to get what you are looking for.
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
Finished Look to Windward, one of the better books in the series. I wish there were a few more scenes where we shown a Homomdan point of view about things. What's up with
tripods and their troublemaking in the Culture novels? I liked the more obvious example of a Mind not quite exactly telling the truth, when the Hub mind was talking about Meatfucker. Instead of communicating more precisely what happened it chose to word things in a way to more strongly support its own point of view.
And that ending, don't fuck with the Culture.
The more I think about it the more I like that all humanoids are just referred to as "human". As I understand it these books are supposed to be read as if they were translated from Marain to English by a Mind and it fits that a Mind wouldn't really be interested in communicating the small details of how individuals may differ from one species to another because it doesn't matter all that much to them; rather they see each individual as an individual with their species only being a very small part of a larger picture.
+3
BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
I forgot that Consider Phlebas makes it super clear that the Culture did not come from Terran society. They actually give Gregorian dates for a bunch of Idiran war events.
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
Started Matter...wtf is the Culture playing at here?
I find it pretty amusing imagining the exchanges that must have happened during early contact. "Oh yeah we're from the Culture, we're a uhh….Kingdom that comes from the stars, no big deal how you doing? Just ignore the floating metal box it's harmless."
Transition is the only non-M Banks I've read, and that was still pretty scifi-adjacent. I should give the Iain Banks stuff a go some time.
Espedair Street for happiest, most normal fiction-novelist Banks Wasp Factory for OG creepy horror Banks Walking on Glass for tricksy, puzzle-master Banks Dead Air for his 9/11 venting The Bridge for some of his best writing The Crow Road for his best first line...
Avoid Song of Stone and Canal Dreams. Everything else is pretty damned good.
Hot take, maybe? Inversions is the best Culture novel and the best statement of the major argument the series is having with itself
It’s very good. I think reading it last was a serendipitous choice on my part, it works really well when you already know and love the Culture. It’s definitely the purest statement of what the Culture is all about.
My favorite book remains Look to Windward simply because it’s the most somber one and does the most to humanize (personize?) the Minds.
It just shows how the Culture would react to a regular old space Empire; Find a way to undermine it and start a revolution because classic space Empires are hierarchical by default meaning no matter how well run there are plenty of people at the bottom. Combine that with a capitalist economy that promotes scarcity as a feature not a flaw and you got plenty of poor people. Bunch of poor people at the bottom for whom the system doesn't really work? Instant revolution if you can spark a fire.
Then you can rebuild it into a more democratic and fair system afterwards. Sure people at the top get the chop, but fuck those guys, they where the beneficiaries of a unjust system and did nothing to change it.
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
0
Gabriel_Pitt(effective against Russian warships)Registered Userregular
It doesn't hurt that in that particular case, the ones at the top were total shitheels who had it coming.
0
daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
It doesn't hurt that in that particular case, the ones at the top were total shitheels who had it coming.
I suspect he did that for a couple reasons. Their ubershittiness provides motivation to the protagonist for the middle third or so of the book, plus it minimizes concerns about the few thousand or million regular proles type people that usually would get murderized in a planetary revolution, even one run by Special Circumstances.
He had to go to some extreme lengths to write a book where the reader is happy with regime change, even if it’s the ultra liberal Culture doing it.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
It doesn't hurt that in that particular case, the ones at the top were total shitheels who had it coming.
I suspect he did that for a couple reasons. Their ubershittiness provides motivation to the protagonist for the middle third or so of the book, plus it minimizes concerns about the few thousand or million regular proles type people that usually would get murderized in a planetary revolution, even one run by Special Circumstances.
He had to go to some extreme lengths to write a book where the reader is happy with regime change, even if it’s the ultra liberal Culture doing it.
I suppose? On the other hand Look to Windward is basically the completely opposite. The Culture messed up in attempting a regime change (or at least claims that what happened was unintended) and the entire book is mostly from the perspective of someone who is an empathetic person who went through immense personal trauma because of The Culture's actions.
It took me a bit but a picture of what a Shellworld was supposed to look like finally crystallized in my head when they mentioned the towers as they were flying about and I realized it was just a sort of miniature version of The City from Blame!
I finished Matter.
Lets re-assemble this ancient thing without consulting any of the available more mature powers, what could go wrong? That was a super grim ending with all the heroic sacrifices. I felt bad for Prince Oramen, surviving so much shit just to be punched in the face with a gauntlet and then irradiated. Overall it seemed much more evenly paced than say, Excession, it rarely dragged and I found just about all the characters very interesting.
+2
BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
It took me a bit but a picture of what a Shellworld was supposed to look like finally crystallized in my head when they mentioned the towers as they were flying about and I realized it was just a sort of miniature version of The City from Blame!
I finished Matter.
Lets re-assemble this ancient thing without consulting any of the available more mature powers, what could go wrong? That was a super grim ending with all the heroic sacrifices. I felt bad for Prince Oramen, surviving so much shit just to be punched in the face with a gauntlet and then irradiated. Overall it seemed much more evenly paced than say, Excession, it rarely dragged and I found just about all the characters very interesting.
See, I found Excession far more interesting, where Matter just seemed a somewhat boring look at a low level civilization. Also, how did that civ get into a shell world to begin with?
Brody on
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
The abrupt ending and lack of any satisfying resolution to Matter left a really bad taste in my mouth.
I get the theme of "there are plans in motion greater than you can possibly comprehend" but it just left so many questions unanswered.
"If complete and utter chaos was lightning, then he'd be the sort to stand on a hilltop in a thunderstorm wearing wet copper armour and shouting 'All gods are bastards'."
We know the shellworld survived and I got the impression that the Culture was now allowed to take a more direct hand in influencing the Sarl. What with how spectacularly the Oct fucked things up it's not surprising. But it would have been nice if we got a breakdown of the fallout of the incident.
We know the shellworld survived and I got the impression that the Culture was now allowed to take a more direct hand in influencing the Sarl. What with how spectacularly the Oct fucked things up it's not surprising. But it would have been nice if we got a breakdown of the fallout of the incident.
Yeah, the epilogue of Matter is really what makes the whole book for me.
Posts
One thing that I don't remember seeing is the Culture considering actions taken while glanded on something as morally different than sober ones. Doesn't seem like a society where "I was an asshole but I was drunk/high/whatever" would mean much as an excuse to folks.
Use of Weapons has an outsider who lives in the Culture and looks nothing even vaguely like "normal" and fits in just fine.
I mean basically the same way the handle everything, pairing infinite resources with humble desires.
Also, what kind of gene fixing leaves you vulnerable to chemical addiction?
Well, if you can tailor make drugs fine tuned to produce the exact effect you wanted, I assume you can also make them without all the negative affects of heroin/meth/cocaine. So chemical addiction wouldn't likely come into it anyways.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
Per tradition, this one, too got the name of a Culture ship. The new one is "Beats Working". (The old one was "Armchair Traveller".)
The Culture even had a more euphemistic term for it along the lines of "major life form change" that meant he had to do the equivalent of wait a long period of time while expressing interest before any Mind would deign to assist him do so.
Yeah, though given that the Culture is huge enough there is probably an eccentric Mind in the Ulterior somewhere running an Orbital as a giant opium den, if that’s really how you wanted to live.
The culture's own hypocrisy around these things is a running theme to boot. Which is great, really.
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/id/TheZombiePenguin
Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/thezombiepenguin/
Switch: 0293 6817 9891
Thing that was the dude in Matter who turned himself into a spider bot sort of thing. Affronter dude basically asked for it as a bribe for doing something that some Minds wanted him to do.
Which puts the lie to another thing about the Culture...
I'd want to get turned into a Mind.
Which, I feel, Minds would find several different versions of distasteful, if not close to heretical.
More like kind of pointless? If I recall there are drones that get turned into Minds over time, but any particular mind-uploaded human can just run constantly as one of millions of subprocesses on a Mind. There wouldn’t be much of an intelligible sense in which a human could become a Mind that would be different than a Mind simply incorporating your memories into it.
Naw, I wanna grow to be the whole thing, which means not be a human anymore.
Like either have it built around me, or slowly bring it online so I can stay in charge.
I imagine this is the part the Minds would find distasteful
I might be wrong but I'm under the impression that their drug glands produce specific compounds, not whatever they think up and its unlikely they'd find a mind that wants to hook them up with "dangerous opiate hormones"
Yeah, but a bunch of people have already tried glanding all sorts of shit, so unless you are a pioneer of drugs, you just ask someone else how to get what you are looking for.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
And that ending, don't fuck with the Culture.
The more I think about it the more I like that all humanoids are just referred to as "human". As I understand it these books are supposed to be read as if they were translated from Marain to English by a Mind and it fits that a Mind wouldn't really be interested in communicating the small details of how individuals may differ from one species to another because it doesn't matter all that much to them; rather they see each individual as an individual with their species only being a very small part of a larger picture.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
Espedair Street for happiest, most normal fiction-novelist Banks
Wasp Factory for OG creepy horror Banks
Walking on Glass for tricksy, puzzle-master Banks
Dead Air for his 9/11 venting
The Bridge for some of his best writing
The Crow Road for his best first line...
Avoid Song of Stone and Canal Dreams. Everything else is pretty damned good.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
It’s very good. I think reading it last was a serendipitous choice on my part, it works really well when you already know and love the Culture. It’s definitely the purest statement of what the Culture is all about.
My favorite book remains Look to Windward simply because it’s the most somber one and does the most to humanize (personize?) the Minds.
It just shows how the Culture would react to a regular old space Empire; Find a way to undermine it and start a revolution because classic space Empires are hierarchical by default meaning no matter how well run there are plenty of people at the bottom. Combine that with a capitalist economy that promotes scarcity as a feature not a flaw and you got plenty of poor people. Bunch of poor people at the bottom for whom the system doesn't really work? Instant revolution if you can spark a fire.
Then you can rebuild it into a more democratic and fair system afterwards. Sure people at the top get the chop, but fuck those guys, they where the beneficiaries of a unjust system and did nothing to change it.
I suspect he did that for a couple reasons. Their ubershittiness provides motivation to the protagonist for the middle third or so of the book, plus it minimizes concerns about the few thousand or million regular proles type people that usually would get murderized in a planetary revolution, even one run by Special Circumstances.
He had to go to some extreme lengths to write a book where the reader is happy with regime change, even if it’s the ultra liberal Culture doing it.
I suppose? On the other hand Look to Windward is basically the completely opposite. The Culture messed up in attempting a regime change (or at least claims that what happened was unintended) and the entire book is mostly from the perspective of someone who is an empathetic person who went through immense personal trauma because of The Culture's actions.
I finished Matter.
See, I found Excession far more interesting, where Matter just seemed a somewhat boring look at a low level civilization. Also, how did that civ get into a shell world to begin with?
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
I found the main plot of Excession more interesting, but Matter didn't have any low points as low as some in Excession.
Yeah, the epilogue of Matter is really what makes the whole book for me.
I legitimately cried for several minutes after I finished it.
Hydrogen Sonata has one of the most emotionally brutal murders in all of Bank's work IMO.
That's saying a lot.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
It makes some improvised room furnishing looks gentle and peaceful.