Donald J. Trump is somehow still the president of the United States
Remember when Trump said that he'd take the mantle of this government shutdown? Well, not so much.
Also kind of destroying his own argument that Democrats want open borders with this video, but that's more for the immigration thread.
So basically it took a few days but Trump's staff finally convinced him he done did a stupid and now they are hastily trying to fix it but they are fucking incompetent at their jobs, as usual, so it looks like something thrown together by high schoolers during lunch right before the video was due in the afternoon.
how sure are we it wasn't thrown together by high schoolers during lunch right before it was due?
Pretty sure. They were probably university students or recent graduates. College republicans basically.
I like how none of this would be an issue if trump would just let go of his stupid vanity project that everyone with half a brain has said won't actually work.
I mean he can't of course since even if he was capable of humility, the fact is he campaigned on building the wall and that without it his first two years have effectively accomplished nothing constructive for the american people.
It's still one of his biggest applause lines at his masturbatory rallies afaik so he's not gonna let it go.
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AstaerethIn the belly of the beastRegistered Userregular
Trump doesn’t want to build a wall, he just wants to use the fight over the wall so his base can see him fighting the good fight for white people. Schumer offered him the wall for DACA last year and Trump turned it down.
Trump doesn’t want to build a wall, he just wants to use the fight over the wall so his base can see him fighting the good fight for white people. Schumer offered him the wall for DACA last year and Trump turned it down.
Trump probably would have taken it. He agreed to a DACA deal without the wall last year on his own. The bigger reason it doesn't happen is because the hardcore white supremacists, the people behind the specifics of Trump's immigration agenda, know the Wall is meaningless for what they want and so they talked him down and convinced him to instead demand what the white supremacists really want: cuts to legal immigration.
I like how none of this would be an issue if trump would just let go of his stupid vanity project that everyone with half a brain has said won't actually work.
I mean he can't of course since even if he was capable of humility, the fact is he campaigned on building the wall and that without it his first two years have effectively accomplished nothing constructive for the american people.
But it doesn’t accomplish anything constructive for the American people, so that doesn’t change no matter what
The wall would be an actual thing that he had accomplished from his campaign goals and while it's construction could be used for all sorts of graft (fun fact: his dad made a killing on government projects) it would at least be a campaign goal that had been met on some level and wouldn't immediately turn out to be a shit show.
This isn't to say that the wall is a good idea (a person with $50 and access to a hardware store can defeat it) of course, it's a vanity project and a monument to xenophobia afterall that well, adam said it best:
Trump doesn’t want to build a wall, he just wants to use the fight over the wall so his base can see him fighting the good fight for white people. Schumer offered him the wall for DACA last year and Trump turned it down.
Trump probably would have taken it. He agreed to a DACA deal without the wall last year on his own. The bigger reason it doesn't happen is because the hardcore white supremacists, the people behind the specifics of Trump's immigration agenda, know the Wall is meaningless for what they want and so they talked him down and convinced him to instead demand what the white supremacists really want: cuts to legal immigration.
Trump’s decision to surround himself with white supremacists makes that a distinction without a difference. Trump is an idiot, obviously, but his strategy is still his strategy.
Trump doesn’t want to build a wall, he just wants to use the fight over the wall so his base can see him fighting the good fight for white people. Schumer offered him the wall for DACA last year and Trump turned it down.
Trump probably would have taken it. He agreed to a DACA deal without the wall last year on his own. The bigger reason it doesn't happen is because the hardcore white supremacists, the people behind the specifics of Trump's immigration agenda, know the Wall is meaningless for what they want and so they talked him down and convinced him to instead demand what the white supremacists really want: cuts to legal immigration.
Trump’s decision to surround himself with white supremacists makes that a distinction without a difference. Trump is an idiot, obviously, but his strategy is still his strategy.
It makes a difference in that Trump and the people he surrounds himself with don't necessarily have the same agenda and the relationship is far from strictly traditionally hierarchical (see - Kelly as a good example).
The point being that Trump himself absolutely wants to build a wall. Even if he turns down chances to do it because they aren't racist enough.
So a thought occurs to me about how they can get trump to roll over on this super fast: In the event of a government shutdown all governement agencies are effectively operating without pay and thus a lot of these people won't work because well, why would you for an IOU?
Which means that Trumps favorite federal agency (ICE) effectively ceases to function.
Just in time for the caravan he's been fear mongering over to arrive at the border.
Sadly this isn't really how it works.
ICE and a lot of DHS are considered exempt and must report without pay or they can be fired for being a no show. This also includes a lot of FEMA, TSA, Coast Guard, and the Border Patrol. So his favorite agency is still working but for no pay. Which probably won't help his popularity with them if they even blame him.
What it will also do is back up stuff like the immigration courts and processes even more than it is under his watch making people wait longer to have their case heard but I am pretty sure immigration judges are not exempt.
Also, it's not that a lot of Government employees don't want to work for an IOU and so won't show up. They are legally barred from working without lawful appropriations allowing them to. Checking your work email during a shutdown is technically a felony.
Though, not all of DHS is "Essential" and Trump doesn't understand how any of this works, so you could probably still catch him with something sophmoric.
As a government employee of a certain agency, we actually had large meetings over the fact we couldn't even take phone calls at home during the shutdown in 2013. Considering a large amount of our work is supporting people who don't have holidays, this was a Big Deal. We aren't considered essential, but our support can be considered as such, on occasion.
I still feel like I'm missing something, because the February budget deal includes $1.3B for border security (but no capital-W 'Wall'), increased military spending, and a relative cut to nonmilitary government wages (1.9% increase vs 2.4% for military), and since then the Dems made gains in the House, and it seems that folks are celebrating that Pelosi and Schumer didn't give Trump even more since then
In other bits, that wage increase was an override of Trump who wanted to give no increase. And overall civilian wages in the government have been mostly flat for the last decade. Like not a small with inflation increase but an actual no increase.
Fun fact: government civilians have gotten the shaft on pay increases in recent years (https://www.federalpay.org/gs/raises). We haven't had a raise that keeps pace with average inflation for dearly a decade.
But, you know, all government workers are overpaid and lazy.
Trump doesn’t want to build a wall, he just wants to use the fight over the wall so his base can see him fighting the good fight for white people. Schumer offered him the wall for DACA last year and Trump turned it down.
This is getting off topic but I'm expecting the "obstruction" by the Dems to be a major pillar of his platform in 2020.
Giving up on funding the wall is them backing down. Assuming ot sticks because, well, Trump.
Maybe someone managed to explain that a shutdown over Christmas would be bad PR and extending it past the new year effectively gives the new, Dem House and extra budget.
I want Pelosi to just keep casually bringing up how he backed down on this in meetings with him. Make him toddler tantrum over and over again because a woman is pointing out he's a failure.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I will never understand how this guy built a cult of supporters who think he's some kind of alpha male dealmaker (...aside from Russian propaganda).
Nothing says 'the art of the deal' like having one very clear demand, threatening to shutdown the government every chance you get, but never following through and never getting anything.
I will never understand how this guy built a cult of supporters who think he's some kind of alpha male dealmaker (...aside from Russian propaganda).
Nothing says 'the art of the deal' like having one very clear demand, threatening to shutdown the government every chance you get, but never following through and never getting anything.
Because he projects a macho image and that's all that's required. Macho posturing is very frequently hollow, but that's why people defend their posturing so vigorously.
I will never understand how this guy built a cult of supporters who think he's some kind of alpha male dealmaker (...aside from Russian propaganda).
Nothing says 'the art of the deal' like having one very clear demand, threatening to shutdown the government every chance you get, but never following through and never getting anything.
People will convince themselves of a lot after choosing their side in politics
So it's literally just the stupid handshake power moves, the extra long ties, and the gold toilet. Cool.
Also the scripted reality show where he told people they were fired every week. You really cannot underestimate the contribution that made to his brand, especially since the majority of Americans don't realize just how not-real reality TV is.
Oh god fucking damn it stop giving up judge seats.
Don’t Republicans only need is 50 votes to confirm a judge?
Well that and time, the amount of which is partially dependent on Democratic cooperation.
I honestly don’t understand, what’s stopping Republicans from just holding the vote for these judges any time they want? How is adding the vote to a larger piece of legislation particularly different than doing both separate?
Oh god fucking damn it stop giving up judge seats.
Don’t Republicans only need is 50 votes to confirm a judge?
Well that and time, the amount of which is partially dependent on Democratic cooperation.
I honestly don’t understand, what’s stopping Republicans from just holding the vote for these judges any time they want? How is adding the vote to a larger piece of legislation particularly different than doing both separate?
Byzantine Senate process. There are ways to speed things up but they would generally require Democratic support which Schumer has been giving them.
I don't even understand this deal. What are the Democrats even getting in return?
IDK stickers or something
Nothing about this makes sense so perhaps we should wait till there's more information available.
Shryke one of these days you're just going to have to accept that your favorite people in government sometimes do stupid shit with no real advantage or equal gain involved.
I don't even understand this deal. What are the Democrats even getting in return?
IDK stickers or something
Nothing about this makes sense so perhaps we should wait till there's more information available.
It makes perfect sense to me.
You literally just said you couldn't explain it a quote up from this. This was less then 10 minutes ago. What new information have you learned since then?
I don't even understand this deal. What are the Democrats even getting in return?
IDK stickers or something
Nothing about this makes sense so perhaps we should wait till there's more information available.
It makes perfect sense to me.
You literally just said you couldn't explain it a quote up from this. This was less then 10 minutes ago. What new information have you learned since then?
It was a joke, as I obviously don't think Schumer is going to approve judges in exchange for stickers.
Schumer wants to avoid a shutdown at almost any cost because that's who he is and what he values. He's been helping speed along judicial appointments for trivial gains already. It makes perfect sense to me that the GOP would tell him "we won't shut down government if you help us with these judges" and he'd go along with it because politically he's kind of an idiot.
The Democrats want to get a spending deal out because they believe the United States government continuing to function and be funded is in the best interest of its people. And also their favorability ratings. Either way this isn't exactly rocket science, what they're getting is having a spending deal go through (presumably with some concessions on the spending itself).
To be fair I want the democrats to avoid a shut down? Like again government employees are people and need money? Especially during the holidays?
The problem here is that, in the hypothetical trade offered, you're avoiding a shutdown for making it harder and harder for any kind of progressive legislation to ever happen regardless of who's in office.
So yeah like a shutdown causes real human suffering but what about when George P Mimsington III, who was confirmed via voice vote rules that the FDA is unconstitutional?
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Pretty sure. They were probably university students or recent graduates. College republicans basically.
It's still one of his biggest applause lines at his masturbatory rallies afaik so he's not gonna let it go.
Trump probably would have taken it. He agreed to a DACA deal without the wall last year on his own. The bigger reason it doesn't happen is because the hardcore white supremacists, the people behind the specifics of Trump's immigration agenda, know the Wall is meaningless for what they want and so they talked him down and convinced him to instead demand what the white supremacists really want: cuts to legal immigration.
The wall would be an actual thing that he had accomplished from his campaign goals and while it's construction could be used for all sorts of graft (fun fact: his dad made a killing on government projects) it would at least be a campaign goal that had been met on some level and wouldn't immediately turn out to be a shit show.
This isn't to say that the wall is a good idea (a person with $50 and access to a hardware store can defeat it) of course, it's a vanity project and a monument to xenophobia afterall that well, adam said it best:
Trump’s decision to surround himself with white supremacists makes that a distinction without a difference. Trump is an idiot, obviously, but his strategy is still his strategy.
It makes a difference in that Trump and the people he surrounds himself with don't necessarily have the same agenda and the relationship is far from strictly traditionally hierarchical (see - Kelly as a good example).
The point being that Trump himself absolutely wants to build a wall. Even if he turns down chances to do it because they aren't racist enough.
As a government employee of a certain agency, we actually had large meetings over the fact we couldn't even take phone calls at home during the shutdown in 2013. Considering a large amount of our work is supporting people who don't have holidays, this was a Big Deal. We aren't considered essential, but our support can be considered as such, on occasion.
Fun fact: government civilians have gotten the shaft on pay increases in recent years (https://www.federalpay.org/gs/raises). We haven't had a raise that keeps pace with average inflation for dearly a decade.
But, you know, all government workers are overpaid and lazy.
This is getting off topic but I'm expecting the "obstruction" by the Dems to be a major pillar of his platform in 2020.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Giving up on funding the wall is them backing down. Assuming ot sticks because, well, Trump.
Maybe someone managed to explain that a shutdown over Christmas would be bad PR and extending it past the new year effectively gives the new, Dem House and extra budget.
Nothing says 'the art of the deal' like having one very clear demand, threatening to shutdown the government every chance you get, but never following through and never getting anything.
Because he projects a macho image and that's all that's required. Macho posturing is very frequently hollow, but that's why people defend their posturing so vigorously.
People will convince themselves of a lot after choosing their side in politics
Also the scripted reality show where he told people they were fired every week. You really cannot underestimate the contribution that made to his brand, especially since the majority of Americans don't realize just how not-real reality TV is.
I don't even understand this deal. What are the Democrats even getting in return?
IDK stickers or something
Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
Fuck Joe Manchin
Don’t Republicans only need is 50 votes to confirm a judge?
Well that and time, the amount of which is partially dependent on Democratic cooperation.
...wait, Schumer knows this, right?
Senator Schumer is the fucking worst.
I honestly don’t understand, what’s stopping Republicans from just holding the vote for these judges any time they want? How is adding the vote to a larger piece of legislation particularly different than doing both separate?
Byzantine Senate process. There are ways to speed things up but they would generally require Democratic support which Schumer has been giving them.
Nothing about this makes sense so perhaps we should wait till there's more information available.
It makes perfect sense to me.
You literally just said you couldn't explain it a quote up from this. This was less then 10 minutes ago. What new information have you learned since then?
It was a joke, as I obviously don't think Schumer is going to approve judges in exchange for stickers.
Schumer wants to avoid a shutdown at almost any cost because that's who he is and what he values. He's been helping speed along judicial appointments for trivial gains already. It makes perfect sense to me that the GOP would tell him "we won't shut down government if you help us with these judges" and he'd go along with it because politically he's kind of an idiot.
pleasepaypreacher.net
The problem here is that, in the hypothetical trade offered, you're avoiding a shutdown for making it harder and harder for any kind of progressive legislation to ever happen regardless of who's in office.
So yeah like a shutdown causes real human suffering but what about when George P Mimsington III, who was confirmed via voice vote rules that the FDA is unconstitutional?