Mueller could probably fund this thing through a patreon if push came to shove.
I'm not even joking with that since enough people want to see the investigation reach it's conclusion that they could probably match whatever the justice department is allocating.
The laywer for the American arrested in Russia and accused of spying says that his client is optimistic and really hopes he can be part of a "prisoner exchange" with the US *cough* *cough* Maria Butina.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
The laywer for the American arrested in Russia and accused of spying says that his client is optimistic and really hopes he can be part of a "prisoner exchange" with the US *cough* *cough* Maria Butina.
Can you provide a citation? Also is Butina for sure mentioned or is that speculative?
The laywer for the American arrested in Russia and accused of spying says that his client is optimistic and really hopes he can be part of a "prisoner exchange" with the US *cough* *cough* Maria Butina.
Can you provide a citation? Also is Butina for sure mentioned or is that speculative?
It is what all the news agencies are running with right now. Apparently Russian Media is painting Butina as a political prisoner and the government is seeking ways to get her out.
I think the real important lesson here is that if you are an American, DO NOT GO TO RUSSIA RIGHT NOW. fucking hell...
There has been widespread speculation that Russia seized Mr. Whelan to exchange him for Maria Butina, a Russian citizen jailed in the United States. Ms. Butina, 30, pleaded guilty on Dec. 13 in Federal District Court in Washington to a single charge of conspiring to act as a foreign agent. She admitted to being involved in an organized effort, backed by Russian officials, to lobby influential Americans in the National Rifle Association and the Republican Party.
She faces six months in prison, most likely followed by deportation. An espionage conviction in Russia carries a sentence of 10 to 20 years.
Russia has denied that Ms. Butina acted in any official capacity. While there is no apparent connection between her case and Mr. Whelan’s, Russia has a history of arresting foreigners to exchange them for its citizens held elsewhere.
So, yes, speculation right now... but founded in precedent.
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Let's play Mario Kart or something...
I heard this on the radio (NPR) this morning as well. They had a journalist that had the same thing happen to him in the 80's. He was meeting with a source about a story and out of nowhere Russian agents swarmed him. The packed of information his source had just handed him contained "confidential information" and they concluded he was a spy.
It also just so happened that the US had a Russian spy in custody and Russia was willing to do an exchange.
I'll see if I can track down a transcript of the interview but basically NPR and this journalist have said it seems pretty likely Russia just wants its spy back, especially after shes begun cooperating with the authorities.
If we lose Butina over this I'm going to be extremely pissed off.
I don’t think we’re going to “lose” her. She’s (currently) cooperating and the plan at the end of her cooperation was to deport her back to Russia anyway.
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
Is deportation an assumption made by the media or is it truly the most likely outcome? Because it wouldn't surprise me to find out she's cooperating with the hope she'll somehow get to stay in the US
Is deportation an assumption made by the media or is it truly the most likely outcome? Because it wouldn't surprise me to find out she's cooperating with the hope she'll somehow get to stay in the US
It's SOP. Nonresidents are deported at the end of their prison term.
If we lose Butina over this I'm going to be extremely pissed off.
I don’t think we’re going to “lose” her. She’s (currently) cooperating and the plan at the end of her cooperation was to deport her back to Russia anyway.
That being the case, if Butina's return is really a short-term objective of Moscow, that suggests that she is Important, and perhaps should not go back at all.
Honestly Russia wanting her back would be real bad for all the GOP people who said she wasn't an anything and that their photo ops with her don't signify anything.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Honestly Russia wanting her back would be real bad for all the GOP people who said she wasn't an anything and that their photo ops with her don't signify anything.
I think it depends on the sincerity of the wanting. To the extent that Russia cares about their international image, it's a no-brainer to at least make some kind of public "Return our citizen to us!" statement. On the contrary, it'd be even weirder if they never made any comment on it at all, so they kind of had to.
The question then is how hard are they actually trying to get her back? If the answer is "Really Hard", then yeah, that may be cause for concern, but it also might be more of the above, playing the world-wide international media game of appearing to make a stand for one of their citizens that they may or may not actually give a shit about.
If we lose Butina over this I'm going to be extremely pissed off.
I don’t think we’re going to “lose” her. She’s (currently) cooperating and the plan at the end of her cooperation was to deport her back to Russia anyway.
The question is can the State Department supercede the Justice Department in exchanging the prisoners prior to Butina finishing cooperating.
Keep in mind that both Department are part of the executive and under the President.
If we lose Butina over this I'm going to be extremely pissed off.
I don’t think we’re going to “lose” her. She’s (currently) cooperating and the plan at the end of her cooperation was to deport her back to Russia anyway.
The question is can the State Department supercede the Justice Department in exchanging the prisoners prior to Butina finishing cooperating.
Keep in mind that both Department are part of the executive and under the President.
I assume she's in custody somewhere, which makes it hard since guards and all?
Honestly Russia wanting her back would be real bad for all the GOP people who said she wasn't an anything and that their photo ops with her don't signify anything.
I think it depends on the sincerity of the wanting. To the extent that Russia cares about their international image, it's a no-brainer to at least make some kind of public "Return our citizen to us!" statement. On the contrary, it'd be even weirder if they never made any comment on it at all, so they kind of had to.
The question then is how hard are they actually trying to get her back? If the answer is "Really Hard", then yeah, that may be cause for concern, but it also might be more of the above, playing the world-wide international media game of appearing to make a stand for one of their citizens that they may or may not actually give a shit about.
The Russian government also cares about their national image, especially when they have painted a citizen as mostly innocent. Bringing back Butina in exchange for some rando American is just good politics.
Exchanges happen all the time and the government wanting them is not indicative of how valuable agents are per se. The 2010 exchange involved high profile agents on the American side (including Skripal), the Russian agents were far less valuable. (It was 4 vs 10 though.)
Remember, that's the country that deployed nerve agents in British residential neighborhoods and spent awhile joking about it on state media. Their government's been in cartoon-villain territory for awhile.
I also don't think they're that afraid of the Americans, given they got a secretary of state instafired for criticising them during that fiasco.
And of course if they do swap her, then after she's back home, "something" can happen to the guy they swapped her for.
Just to make the point.
That it's not worth doing hostage exchanges with russia?
Yeah they're not going to kill an American citizen over a list of employees. The Russians are not cartoonish villains.
Well, they are. They do that shit to their citizens. But they are still a little afraid of the Americans.
They are not. Brutal oppression to protect your position is wrong, it is not crazy. The Russian government doesn't kill people for fun, it kills for reasons.
like, the suggested action is so incredibly dumb. They would literally need to be villains from cartoons to do it. Their motivation would have to be doing evil.
there is a world of difference between killing a high placed double agent now working for the opposition and killing some random agent who barely collected any intelligence.
Remember, that's the country that deployed nerve agents in British residential neighborhoods and spent awhile joking about it on state media. Their government's been in cartoon-villain territory for awhile.
I also don't think they're that afraid of the Americans, given they got a secretary of state instafired for criticising them during that fiasco.
Putin isn't stupid enough to think that trump is going to last another 4 years and I'd give good odds that whoever comes into office next is going to be looking for a pound of flesh out of his ass; no point in upping those odds.
And of course if they do swap her, then after she's back home, "something" can happen to the guy they swapped her for.
Just to make the point.
That it's not worth doing hostage exchanges with russia?
Yeah they're not going to kill an American citizen over a list of employees. The Russians are not cartoonish villains.
Have you not been reading the news or something. They did this with goddamb nerve gas in Salisbury a few months ago.
More to the point, they're not going to kill a hostage they just traded away, because that would make future hostage exchanges more difficult for them.
I thought the nerve gas thing was Russia explicitly sending a message? Something to the effect of "Nowhere is safe for traitors." Moscow officially denied involvement, but the method of attack might as well have been a signed note. They play the cartoon villain when it suits them.
And of course if they do swap her, then after she's back home, "something" can happen to the guy they swapped her for.
Just to make the point.
That it's not worth doing hostage exchanges with russia?
Yeah they're not going to kill an American citizen over a list of employees. The Russians are not cartoonish villains.
Have you not been reading the news or something. They did this with goddamb nerve gas in Salisbury a few months ago.
More to the point, they're not going to kill a hostage they just traded away, because that would make future hostage exchanges more difficult for them.
I thought the nerve gas thing was Russia explicitly sending a message? Something to the effect of "Nowhere is safe for traitors." Moscow officially denied involvement, but the method of attack might as well have been a signed note. They play the cartoon villain when it suits them.
Skripal, the guy who got poisoned in Salisbury, was a hostage Russia traded away as part of a spy swap in 2010. Then they tried to kill him!
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
edited January 2019
Well we know where Rashida Tlaib (D-Michigan) stands:
Speaking to a crowd at an event sponsored by the progressive group MoveOn, Tlaib recalled the moment she won her election in November.
"And when your son looks at you and says, 'Mama look, you won. Bullies don't win,' and I said, 'Baby, they don't,' because we're gonna go in there and we're going to impeach the motherfucker,"
Well we know where Rashida Tlaib (D-Michigan) stands:
Speaking to a crowd at an event sponsored by the progressive group MoveOn, Tlaib recalled the moment she won her election in November.
"And when your son looks at you and says, 'Mama look, you won. Bullies don't win,' and I said, 'Baby, they don't,' because we're gonna go in there and we're going to impeach the motherf****r,"
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I'm not even joking with that since enough people want to see the investigation reach it's conclusion that they could probably match whatever the justice department is allocating.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Savannah Guthrie is a host on Today.
That's going to get an...interesting response.
I think we need to talk about what you're meant to do with a grenade after you pull the pin.
Pelosi clearly knows she's going to war.
On the other hand, if you need to interview people at unfunded agencies, your job just got a lot more annoying.
It is what all the news agencies are running with right now. Apparently Russian Media is painting Butina as a political prisoner and the government is seeking ways to get her out.
I think the real important lesson here is that if you are an American, DO NOT GO TO RUSSIA RIGHT NOW. fucking hell...
edit: article from NYT:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/03/world/europe/us-spy-suspect-whelan-russia.html
So, yes, speculation right now... but founded in precedent.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
It also just so happened that the US had a Russian spy in custody and Russia was willing to do an exchange.
I'll see if I can track down a transcript of the interview but basically NPR and this journalist have said it seems pretty likely Russia just wants its spy back, especially after shes begun cooperating with the authorities.
I don’t think we’re going to “lose” her. She’s (currently) cooperating and the plan at the end of her cooperation was to deport her back to Russia anyway.
It's SOP. Nonresidents are deported at the end of their prison term.
That being the case, if Butina's return is really a short-term objective of Moscow, that suggests that she is Important, and perhaps should not go back at all.
As long as we have her sworn testimony and we get maximum value out of her wrt Trump and the NRA, I don’t care if she gets deported or goes to jail.
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I think it depends on the sincerity of the wanting. To the extent that Russia cares about their international image, it's a no-brainer to at least make some kind of public "Return our citizen to us!" statement. On the contrary, it'd be even weirder if they never made any comment on it at all, so they kind of had to.
The question then is how hard are they actually trying to get her back? If the answer is "Really Hard", then yeah, that may be cause for concern, but it also might be more of the above, playing the world-wide international media game of appearing to make a stand for one of their citizens that they may or may not actually give a shit about.
The question is can the State Department supercede the Justice Department in exchanging the prisoners prior to Butina finishing cooperating.
Keep in mind that both Department are part of the executive and under the President.
MWO: Adamski
I assume she's in custody somewhere, which makes it hard since guards and all?
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The Russian government also cares about their national image, especially when they have painted a citizen as mostly innocent. Bringing back Butina in exchange for some rando American is just good politics.
Exchanges happen all the time and the government wanting them is not indicative of how valuable agents are per se. The 2010 exchange involved high profile agents on the American side (including Skripal), the Russian agents were far less valuable. (It was 4 vs 10 though.)
Just to make the point.
That it's not worth doing hostage exchanges with russia?
Yeah they're not going to kill an American citizen over a list of employees. The Russians are not cartoonish villains.
Well, they are. They do that shit to their citizens. But they are still a little afraid of the Americans.
I also don't think they're that afraid of the Americans, given they got a secretary of state instafired for criticising them during that fiasco.
Or handing a shitpot dictator a poorly planned photo-op. Or another shitpot dictator free rein to massacre folks on an exasperated phone call.
This is where we live, now. There's no gain in it.
They are not. Brutal oppression to protect your position is wrong, it is not crazy. The Russian government doesn't kill people for fun, it kills for reasons.
like, the suggested action is so incredibly dumb. They would literally need to be villains from cartoons to do it. Their motivation would have to be doing evil.
there is a world of difference between killing a high placed double agent now working for the opposition and killing some random agent who barely collected any intelligence.
Putin isn't stupid enough to think that trump is going to last another 4 years and I'd give good odds that whoever comes into office next is going to be looking for a pound of flesh out of his ass; no point in upping those odds.
Have you not been reading the news or something. They did this with goddamb nerve gas in Salisbury a few months ago.
More to the point, they're not going to kill a hostage they just traded away, because that would make future hostage exchanges more difficult for them.
I thought the nerve gas thing was Russia explicitly sending a message? Something to the effect of "Nowhere is safe for traitors." Moscow officially denied involvement, but the method of attack might as well have been a signed note. They play the cartoon villain when it suits them.
Skripal, the guy who got poisoned in Salisbury, was a hostage Russia traded away as part of a spy swap in 2010. Then they tried to kill him!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/01/04/politics/rashida-tlaib-trump-impeachment-comments/index.html
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