I guess I can understand the chess analogy but I just dont think he ever forgets about the characters and that they arnt just moving pieces. When I think about Hickmans run on thhe Avengers I think about the emotional powerful ones like
Thor realizing a moment before his death that he had become too noble to weild his reverse hammer.
Namor seething in the background at the Illuminati attempts to convince the great society that they arnt the bad guys because he’s already realized what they are about to and its killing him.
Cap being ruined emotionally by the revelation that Tony violated him and his trust for absolutely no reason.
Donny Cates has said a few times that he really wants to bring back the Ultimate universe
Akira Yoshida C.B. Cebulski was asked about that and said he would not confirm or deny if that was happening
But if it WAS happening next year is the 20th anniversary of the Ultimate Universe and that would be the time to do it and also it would definitely be a continuation of the existing Ultimate U, not a reboot.
what about all those great things they did when they folded the Ultimate universe into 616?
Miles Morales has been real good and also benefited from being able to bounce of 616 characters, even if they fucked up his initial introduction
Has he? I thought the general consensus is that they don't really know what to do with him after the initial "he's the street level Spider-Man in contrast to Peter's global Spider-Man."
what about all those great things they did when they folded the Ultimate universe into 616?
Miles Morales has been real good and also benefited from being able to bounce of 616 characters, even if they fucked up his initial introduction
Has he? I thought the general consensus is that they don't really know what to do with him after the initial "he's the street level Spider-Man in contrast to Peter's global Spider-Man."
After joining up with the Champions and getting Saladin Ahmed to write him they have definitely found his role to play
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MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
the thing hickman does a good job of (in his secret warriors, his FF, his avengers) is introducing these huge enormously consequential conflicts, but then constantly pulling the reader back to the characters with a bunch of little emotional moments. I'm sure there are some issues that have too much of the former and too little of the latter for some readers' taste, but on the whole he does pretty well.
like, ewing's ultimates was good but there are times when he's introduced so much weird shit that by the time he pulls it back to the actual characters my eyes have kinda glazed over. Hickman's rarely guilty of that
I will say that the time travel arc in his avengers seemed like a pointless exercise in continuity-wankery, but that's a minor gripe because those issues still have some fun stuff
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
also while I think miles has been mostly okay in 616, I also don't think they've done anything with him that couldn't have been done just as well (maybe better) with the ad hoc team of teenage supers they'd put together before secret wars
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
What even is the ultimate universe anymore? What status quo are we pulling back to? Nobody wants anything like the last three years of the books I’ll tell you that right now.
I've said it before, but I'd much rather see a new version of the ultimate universe that reflects now the way the Ultimate Universe reflected the early 00s.
I've said it before, but I'd much rather see a new version of the ultimate universe that reflects now the way the Ultimate Universe reflected the early 00s.
Now they'll ask Cap if he even has a WhatsApp
I know that was 616 don't at me
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Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
Whatever happened with Jimmy Hudson in 616?
I remember in X-men Blue they talked about how he came from a different universe and then... I don't remember if they did anything with him again?
I've said it before, but I'd much rather see a new version of the ultimate universe that reflects now the way the Ultimate Universe reflected the early 00s.
I feel like a modern Ultimate U wouldn't be as successful as the original as Marvel has gotten better, on average, at making their books more timely and modern.
When the Ultimate Universe launched, X-Men was still being written by Claremont, Busiek's Avengers was in full swing with Maximum Security, Ennis' Punisher wasn't even 10 issues in, and Spider-Man was by...Howard Mackie.
Busiek's Avengers was considered topical and timely for having affirmitive action come up as a plot point and that was in the 00s.
The first Marvel book in the top 100 starring someone who isn't a white man was Spider-Girl who clocked in at the 76th best selling title and Black Panther was the only other title fitting that criteria.
Obviously Marvel still has a LOT of problems, but across the board their books have gotten more diverse leads and creators and the books themselves reflect our modern world in a way more active way than they did almost 20 years back.
A clean slate universe still has potential, because they always do, but the hook that the Ultimate Universe had of "hey we are gonna acknowledge it is the 2000s and incorporate that into the world" does not really work anymore because the Marvel Universe does that now
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
I feel like a modern Ultimate U wouldn't be as successful as the original as Marvel has gotten better, on average, at making their books more timely and modern.
When the Ultimate Universe launched, X-Men was still being written by Claremont, Busiek's Avengers was in full swing with Maximum Security, Ennis' Punisher wasn't even 10 issues in, and Spider-Man was by...Howard Mackie.
Busiek's Avengers was considered topical and timely for having affirmitive action come up as a plot point and that was in the 00s.
The first Marvel book in the top 100 starring someone who isn't a white man was Spider-Girl who clocked in at the 76th best selling title and Black Panther was the only other title fitting that criteria.
Obviously Marvel still has a LOT of problems, but across the board their books have gotten more diverse leads and creators and the books themselves reflect our modern world in a way more active way than they did almost 20 years back.
A clean slate universe still has potential, because they always do, but the hook that the Ultimate Universe had of "hey we are gonna acknowledge it is the 2000s and incorporate that into the world" does not really work anymore because the Marvel Universe does that now
Jesus, 20 years ago in Comics was way more depressing when you actually put that out there.
And I utterly love Busiek. Astro City is one of my favorite comics ever.
Oh yeah I fuckin love his Avengers run, it is just indicative of how stagnant the Marvel Universe had gotten in terms of being the "world outside your window" like they always hype up
I still want them to do an alt-universe that was basically "What would the modern era look like if the F4, Avengers etc. etc. were actually doing the stuff they did back in the 60's."
Like, how would society of progressed if that level of technology had existed in the 60's. If earth had been attacked by 500 zillion alien races in the span of 60 years.
You could also do a thing where the year a character's comic first showed up in is roughly year they first showed up historically, so there'd be different eras of superheros going from the 60's to the 2010's where character like Miles Morales and Kamala Khan are the latest up and comers, having grown up in this batshit crazy superscience world.
I feel like a modern Ultimate U wouldn't be as successful as the original as Marvel has gotten better, on average, at making their books more timely and modern.
When the Ultimate Universe launched, X-Men was still being written by Claremont, Busiek's Avengers was in full swing with Maximum Security, Ennis' Punisher wasn't even 10 issues in, and Spider-Man was by...Howard Mackie.
Busiek's Avengers was considered topical and timely for having affirmitive action come up as a plot point and that was in the 00s.
The first Marvel book in the top 100 starring someone who isn't a white man was Spider-Girl who clocked in at the 76th best selling title and Black Panther was the only other title fitting that criteria.
Obviously Marvel still has a LOT of problems, but across the board their books have gotten more diverse leads and creators and the books themselves reflect our modern world in a way more active way than they did almost 20 years back.
A clean slate universe still has potential, because they always do, but the hook that the Ultimate Universe had of "hey we are gonna acknowledge it is the 2000s and incorporate that into the world" does not really work anymore because the Marvel Universe does that now
Well the Ultimate Universe had a lot of hooks that I could see still resonating today. The thing that always kept bringing me back is the idea that while the core marvel universe must always reflect the world of today the ultimate universe was allowed to progress and completely change the landscape of the world. The most interesting moment of the Ultimate Universe was when Reed turned europe into a Techofuture utopia, North Korea made a group of mutants that immediately rebelled and made their own society and the United States was going through a second civil war.
See I think that is something that came down the road much later
Like that stuff happened after the Ultimate Universe had been around 11 years. It ruled and I agree that the concept of a Marvel Universe not beholden to the Status Quo is very interesting but that's not something the Ultimate Universe really started running with until it was nearing its end, not something it was built around.
I mean, I've always through the first ultimate universe should be read as much as a reaction to the comics of the 90s as anything. 'Rebooting' for the modern era would always have been easy; what the UU gave them an excuse to do was dispense with a bunch of hidebound conventions, and once it was clear they weren't necessary they mostly exited stage right in the mainline universe also
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
See I think that is something that came down the road much later
Like that stuff happened after the Ultimate Universe had been around 11 years. It ruled and I agree that the concept of a Marvel Universe not beholden to the Status Quo is very interesting but that's not something the Ultimate Universe really started running with until it was nearing its end, not something it was built around.
Certainly not on the scale I was talking about but they did have their "no resurrections" rule pretty early.
What I mean is that what the Ultimate Universe was about changed as time went by and ultimately(heh) I think that particular element is the idea that has the most gas in the tank.
See I think that is something that came down the road much later
Like that stuff happened after the Ultimate Universe had been around 11 years. It ruled and I agree that the concept of a Marvel Universe not beholden to the Status Quo is very interesting but that's not something the Ultimate Universe really started running with until it was nearing its end, not something it was built around.
Certainly not on the scale I was talking about but they did have their "no resurrections" rule pretty early.
What I mean is that what the Ultimate Universe was about changed as time went by and ultimately(heh) I think that particular element is the idea that has the most gas in the tank.
They got around no resurrections pretty easily though, and often
Remember how Ultimate Beast was killed and then later they just went OH UH NO HE SURVIVED AND JUST DIDN'T TELL ANYONE
But yeah I agree that would be the way to tackle it, start at a state that resembles a Marvel Universe we recognize and then all bets are off
I still want them to do an alt-universe that was basically "What would the modern era look like if the F4, Avengers etc. etc. were actually doing the stuff they did back in the 60's."
Like, how would society of progressed if that level of technology had existed in the 60's. If earth had been attacked by 500 zillion alien races in the span of 60 years.
You could also do a thing where the year a character's comic first showed up in is roughly year they first showed up historically, so there'd be different eras of superheros going from the 60's to the 2010's where character like Miles Morales and Kamala Khan are the latest up and comers, having grown up in this batshit crazy superscience world.
the ultimate books worked initially because they were such a departure from everything else marvel was publishing at the time; tighter dialogue, way less exposition, much better art (comparatively), and no long-running continuity to get tripped up by. It was an experiment by a failing publishing house desperate to rejuvenate itself (which succeeded beyond their wildest dreams)
they wouldn't be able to do something like that again because in the modern era, everything they publish has great art (well, mostly) and dialogue written for TV. Rebooting the continuity is irrelevant because they already do that every two or three years.
I don't think trying to intentionally recreate the Contemporary Assholes Dimension would work because it'd be transparent; it'd be a lot more interesting to do a 'universe' that's 50 years in the future or something, but that would also require an order of magnitude more creative writing
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
I'd be down with a new Ultimate Marvel-verse as long as they tone down the whole 'real world = everyone has to be a jackass' attitude that ran through some of the books and characters.
Zonugal(He/Him) The Holiday ArmadilloI'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered Userregular
I have been desiring another Marvel universe akin to the Ultimate universe.
I want it to:
-- Have a strict policy of not reviving/resurrecting dead characters.
-- Progress in real time.
-- Alter Marvel's stable of IP to make their characters more diverse.
I don’t think it was intentional, but lots of the ultimate books do share a general theme that growing up turns everybody into an asshole and I always appreciated that
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
I don’t think it was intentional, but lots of the ultimate books do share a general theme that growing up turns everybody into an asshole and I always appreciated that
Or if the world can't make you into an asshole, it just kills you (e.g., Peter Parker, perfect cinnamon roll).
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MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
I disliked the idea that the shorthand for "more realistic" is "more cynical"
Posts
Thor realizing a moment before his death that he had become too noble to weild his reverse hammer.
Namor seething in the background at the Illuminati attempts to convince the great society that they arnt the bad guys because he’s already realized what they are about to and its killing him.
Cap being ruined emotionally by the revelation that Tony violated him and his trust for absolutely no reason.
Akira Yoshida C.B. Cebulski was asked about that and said he would not confirm or deny if that was happening
But if it WAS happening next year is the 20th anniversary of the Ultimate Universe and that would be the time to do it and also it would definitely be a continuation of the existing Ultimate U, not a reboot.
if it was happening
(Its probably happening)
And also Ultimate Reed has been a great addition to the MU
Everything else though...yeah.
Has he? I thought the general consensus is that they don't really know what to do with him after the initial "he's the street level Spider-Man in contrast to Peter's global Spider-Man."
so it's a Hickman book
No? Bombshell is, though.
Miles morales apiderman is a blur to me
like, ewing's ultimates was good but there are times when he's introduced so much weird shit that by the time he pulls it back to the actual characters my eyes have kinda glazed over. Hickman's rarely guilty of that
I will say that the time travel arc in his avengers seemed like a pointless exercise in continuity-wankery, but that's a minor gripe because those issues still have some fun stuff
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Lana_Baumgartner_(Earth-1610)
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Now they'll ask Cap if he even has a WhatsApp
I remember in X-men Blue they talked about how he came from a different universe and then... I don't remember if they did anything with him again?
We already suffered through Secret Empire once
When the Ultimate Universe launched, X-Men was still being written by Claremont, Busiek's Avengers was in full swing with Maximum Security, Ennis' Punisher wasn't even 10 issues in, and Spider-Man was by...Howard Mackie.
Busiek's Avengers was considered topical and timely for having affirmitive action come up as a plot point and that was in the 00s.
The first Marvel book in the top 100 starring someone who isn't a white man was Spider-Girl who clocked in at the 76th best selling title and Black Panther was the only other title fitting that criteria.
Obviously Marvel still has a LOT of problems, but across the board their books have gotten more diverse leads and creators and the books themselves reflect our modern world in a way more active way than they did almost 20 years back.
A clean slate universe still has potential, because they always do, but the hook that the Ultimate Universe had of "hey we are gonna acknowledge it is the 2000s and incorporate that into the world" does not really work anymore because the Marvel Universe does that now
Jesus, 20 years ago in Comics was way more depressing when you actually put that out there.
And I utterly love Busiek. Astro City is one of my favorite comics ever.
Like, how would society of progressed if that level of technology had existed in the 60's. If earth had been attacked by 500 zillion alien races in the span of 60 years.
You could also do a thing where the year a character's comic first showed up in is roughly year they first showed up historically, so there'd be different eras of superheros going from the 60's to the 2010's where character like Miles Morales and Kamala Khan are the latest up and comers, having grown up in this batshit crazy superscience world.
Well the Ultimate Universe had a lot of hooks that I could see still resonating today. The thing that always kept bringing me back is the idea that while the core marvel universe must always reflect the world of today the ultimate universe was allowed to progress and completely change the landscape of the world. The most interesting moment of the Ultimate Universe was when Reed turned europe into a Techofuture utopia, North Korea made a group of mutants that immediately rebelled and made their own society and the United States was going through a second civil war.
Id like to see more of that.
Like that stuff happened after the Ultimate Universe had been around 11 years. It ruled and I agree that the concept of a Marvel Universe not beholden to the Status Quo is very interesting but that's not something the Ultimate Universe really started running with until it was nearing its end, not something it was built around.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Certainly not on the scale I was talking about but they did have their "no resurrections" rule pretty early.
What I mean is that what the Ultimate Universe was about changed as time went by and ultimately(heh) I think that particular element is the idea that has the most gas in the tank.
Remember how Ultimate Beast was killed and then later they just went OH UH NO HE SURVIVED AND JUST DIDN'T TELL ANYONE
But yeah I agree that would be the way to tackle it, start at a state that resembles a Marvel Universe we recognize and then all bets are off
Isn't Spider-Man Life Story kinda doing this?
they wouldn't be able to do something like that again because in the modern era, everything they publish has great art (well, mostly) and dialogue written for TV. Rebooting the continuity is irrelevant because they already do that every two or three years.
I don't think trying to intentionally recreate the Contemporary Assholes Dimension would work because it'd be transparent; it'd be a lot more interesting to do a 'universe' that's 50 years in the future or something, but that would also require an order of magnitude more creative writing
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Tini Howard is writing a Death's Head book co-starring Wiccan and Hulkling.
Fuckin
Sure okay yes
Let's Play Final Fantasy 'II' (Ch10 - 5/17/10)
I want it to:
-- Have a strict policy of not reviving/resurrecting dead characters.
-- Progress in real time.
-- Alter Marvel's stable of IP to make their characters more diverse.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Or if the world can't make you into an asshole, it just kills you (e.g., Peter Parker, perfect cinnamon roll).
"Life is pain, princess", etc etc.