I personally feel very angry and frustrated rather than forgiving, so I can see where you're coming from. I guess my position more clearly articulated would be that the intention of this guy and people like him absolutely includes a desire to provoke counter-violence and spark further divisions.
So yeah a cycle of violence is the wrong term. This is one-sided, terrorist and terrorised. And I have no peace for that man and his ilk. But I admire that the relatives of the victim do and I think their statements along those lines must surely be a good and significant thing.
The people sitting face to face need to break the cycle
OK something I'm not seeing in any articles is what happened to the other 3 people that were arrested ? 4 people were arrested in total and only one was actually the shooter right? Were the other 3 involved or was it a mistake arresting them?
OK something I'm not seeing in any articles is what happened to the other 3 people that were arrested ? 4 people were arrested in total and only one was actually the shooter right? Were the other 3 involved or was it a mistake arresting them?
Per the Beeb
The suspect was the only person charged with carrying out the shootings, Commissioner Bush told reporters. He also said:
- Police did not believe that three other people arrested were involved but he said he could not be conclusive
- A man was charged with firearms offences while an 18-year-old would appear in court on Monday
OK something I'm not seeing in any articles is what happened to the other 3 people that were arrested ? 4 people were arrested in total and only one was actually the shooter right? Were the other 3 involved or was it a mistake arresting them?
Per the Beeb
The suspect was the only person charged with carrying out the shootings, Commissioner Bush told reporters. He also said:
- Police did not believe that three other people arrested were involved but he said he could not be conclusive
- A man was charged with firearms offences while an 18-year-old would appear in court on Monday
It may. He probably doesnt plan on winning but it probably means he gets to deliver his own closing/opening and to testify once without being questioned(which would give him more leeway in what he can say)
It may. He probably doesnt plan on winning but it probably means he gets to deliver his own closing/opening and to testify once without being questioned(which would give him more leeway in what he can say)
I imagine the whole point is he gets to spew his bigoted alt-right garbage in court.
If the NZ court system is actually sane the whole thing will be closed doors and it'll never get out to the public and so we all win. Except, the people in the court room who have to listen to his crap. They take one for the team.
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lonelyahavaCall me Ahava ~~She/Her~~Move to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
The Prime Minister was asked about concerns that letting him do so would Judy give him a platform to speak.
She said that was up to the courts an the media to decide, but she herself will never say the shooter's name.
It may. He probably doesnt plan on winning but it probably means he gets to deliver his own closing/opening and to testify once without being questioned(which would give him more leeway in what he can say)
I also read they’re considering not charging him with terrorism and ‘only’ for 50 counts of murder, so he doesn’t get the chance to grandstand on his ideology.
It may. He probably doesnt plan on winning but it probably means he gets to deliver his own closing/opening and to testify once without being questioned(which would give him more leeway in what he can say)
I also read they’re considering not charging him with terrorism and ‘only’ for 50 counts of murder, so he doesn’t get the chance to grandstand on his ideology.
All for not letting this jagoff spew his ideology, but it’s important that this act be called what it is. Don’t let anybody get away with not calling this terrorism from the far right.
It may. He probably doesnt plan on winning but it probably means he gets to deliver his own closing/opening and to testify once without being questioned(which would give him more leeway in what he can say)
I also read they’re considering not charging him with terrorism and ‘only’ for 50 counts of murder, so he doesn’t get the chance to grandstand on his ideology.
All for not letting this jagoff spew his ideology, but it’s important that this act be called what it is. Don’t let anybody get away with not calling this terrorism from the far right.
Yeah, there has to be another work around.
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FishmanPut your goddamned hand in the goddamned Box of Pain.Registered Userregular
It may. He probably doesnt plan on winning but it probably means he gets to deliver his own closing/opening and to testify once without being questioned(which would give him more leeway in what he can say)
I also read they’re considering not charging him with terrorism and ‘only’ for 50 counts of murder, so he doesn’t get the chance to grandstand on his ideology.
All for not letting this jagoff spew his ideology, but it’s important that this act be called what it is. Don’t let anybody get away with not calling this terrorism from the far right.
Note that 'terrorism', such as it is legally defined in New Zealand law, revolves around organised classical terrorist organisations, with multiple members, cells, and doesn't necessarily well fit solo provocateurs, regardless of the existence of ethereal 'wider online community' that may have helped radicalise them. It's just not a good fit for the law. Murder, on the other hand, is pretty well understood and defined by law. The terrorism laws exist around such well-defined laws, trying to act to criminalise actions that groups of people might do in furtherance of a terrorist agenda, where these are not also already existing crimes in their own right.
That said, socially, the overwhelming consensus is that this was terrorism. No one here is even trying to deny that. I'm not aware of there being anywhere that that is even part of the discussion.
It may. He probably doesnt plan on winning but it probably means he gets to deliver his own closing/opening and to testify once without being questioned(which would give him more leeway in what he can say)
I also read they’re considering not charging him with terrorism and ‘only’ for 50 counts of murder, so he doesn’t get the chance to grandstand on his ideology.
All for not letting this jagoff spew his ideology, but it’s important that this act be called what it is. Don’t let anybody get away with not calling this terrorism from the far right.
Note that 'terrorism', such as it is legally defined in New Zealand law, revolves around organised classical terrorist organisations, with multiple members, cells, and doesn't necessarily well fit solo provocateurs, regardless of the existence of ethereal 'wider online community' that may have helped radicalise them. It's just not a good fit for the law. Murder, on the other hand, is pretty well understood and defined by law. The terrorism laws exist around such well-defined laws, trying to act to criminalise actions that groups of people might do in furtherance of a terrorist agenda, where these are not also already existing crimes in their own right.
That said, socially, the overwhelming consensus is that this was terrorism. No one here is even trying to deny that. I'm not aware of there being anywhere that that is even part of the discussion.
I wonder, is there any way to arrest the admins of the websites for not reporting credible terrorist threats, or whatever the relevant charge would be?
edit: the websites where he discussed his plans, obviously. that seems like a broader organization to me, and there's certainly other white supremacists on those websites that operate in different countries and have their own circles of extremists. sure sounds like a terrorist group to me, the only thing missing is a name, and even then, lots of these guys are in groups with identifiable symbols and names and leadership structures and stuff! they're terrorists! I know I'm certainly bemoaning a point here but I sure hope no one thinks otherwise.
It may. He probably doesnt plan on winning but it probably means he gets to deliver his own closing/opening and to testify once without being questioned(which would give him more leeway in what he can say)
I also read they’re considering not charging him with terrorism and ‘only’ for 50 counts of murder, so he doesn’t get the chance to grandstand on his ideology.
All for not letting this jagoff spew his ideology, but it’s important that this act be called what it is. Don’t let anybody get away with not calling this terrorism from the far right.
Note that 'terrorism', such as it is legally defined in New Zealand law, revolves around organised classical terrorist organisations, with multiple members, cells, and doesn't necessarily well fit solo provocateurs, regardless of the existence of ethereal 'wider online community' that may have helped radicalise them. It's just not a good fit for the law. Murder, on the other hand, is pretty well understood and defined by law. The terrorism laws exist around such well-defined laws, trying to act to criminalise actions that groups of people might do in furtherance of a terrorist agenda, where these are not also already existing crimes in their own right.
That said, socially, the overwhelming consensus is that this was terrorism. No one here is even trying to deny that. I'm not aware of there being anywhere that that is even part of the discussion.
I wonder, is there any way to arrest the admins of the websites for not reporting credible terrorist threats, or whatever the relevant charge would be?
edit: the websites where he discussed his plans, obviously. that seems like a broader organization to me, and there's certainly other white supremacists on those websites that operate in different countries and have their own circles of extremists. sure sounds like a terrorist group to me, the only thing missing is a name, and even then, lots of these guys are in groups with identifiable symbols and names and leadership structures and stuff! they're terrorists! I know I'm certainly bemoaning a point here but I sure hope no one thinks otherwise.
An argument could be made for gross negligence to report a suspected crime to the proper authorities.
If it was outside the Internet, there would already be arrests. The entire movement relies on official cluelessness about the Internet, but it has 100 percent become an organized movement engaged in multiple criminal conspiracies.
And it is amazing, in retrospect, how well the insularity of forums and website culture resembles a cell structure naturally.
If it was outside the Internet, there would already be arrests. The entire movement relies on official cluelessness about the Internet, but it has 100 percent become an organized movement engaged in multiple criminal conspiracies.
And it is amazing, in retrospect, how well the insularity of forums and website culture resembles a cell structure naturally.
I agree with everything you said except clueless.
People have been woke to this for a while, but the......wild west of the internet, for a long time, have been able keep a large gap between what is legal what an individual can be charged successfully convicted of, and their actions.
A lot of these boards know that once one slips up and becomes legally culpable for an event like this, and are successfully made to face legal and or financial consequences, the others will have to pay the piper.
But does the internet need 4chan anymore with the rise of reddit, imgur, twitter, and other social media outlets?
If it was outside the Internet, there would already be arrests. The entire movement relies on official cluelessness about the Internet, but it has 100 percent become an organized movement engaged in multiple criminal conspiracies.
And it is amazing, in retrospect, how well the insularity of forums and website culture resembles a cell structure naturally.
I agree with everything you said except clueless.
People have been woke to this for a while, but the......wild west of the internet, for a long time, have been able keep a large gap between what is legal what an individual can be charged successfully convicted of, and their actions.
A lot of these boards know that once one slips up and becomes legally culpable for an event like this, and are successfully made to face legal and or financial consequences, the others will have to pay the piper.
But does the internet need 4chan anymore with the rise of reddit, imgur, twitter, and other social media outlets?
It was the "official" part of @Phillishere 's comment that's important.
People are aware of this. Politicians aren't. At least in a manner that matters. Whether it's genuine ignorance, intentional ignorance, or plead ignorance, the reason that there's a discrepancy between "outside the internet" and "on the internet" is because they're choosing not to make it so.
Don't get me wrong, politicians meddling with the workings of the internet scares the crap out of me. But this isn't that. This is about treating what happens on the internet as somehow lesser to what happens in real life. As it appears will be the case in this instance.
An 18 year old is being charged for sharing the livestream of the event, and posting threatening messages on Facebook prior to the event (link up above somewhere). It's not really accurate to say "the government is ignoring things because they are taking place on the internet".
An 18 year old is being charged for sharing the livestream of the event, and posting threatening messages on Facebook prior to the event (link up above somewhere). It's not really accurate to say "the government is ignoring things because they are taking place on the internet".
While there are clearly some instances where it's not true (like the one you pointed out), as @Phillishere pointed out, it happens with significantly less frequency than if it were done through another medium (in person, phone calls, snail mail). Sure, anonymity is an issue, as is jurisdiction (NZ police really can't do shit about assholes in the US, for example), but even when the identity is known, and they're within the jurisdiction they're treated differently.
Hopefully that changes, and this 18yo is the rule, not the exception.
I think the key point is that the 18 year old lives in NZ, while the owners of these sites are overseas and are harder to get at legally. The NZ government would very much like to deal with this, but it can't.
I think the key point is that the 18 year old lives in NZ, while the owners of these sites are overseas and are harder to get at legally. The NZ government would very much like to deal with this, but it can't.
Again, that may be the case in this instance. I was arguing from a more generalized perspective, about how bullying, harrassment and threats of violence are treated separately depending on if it's online or not.
I hope that this instance brings about substantive change, but it's been 20+ years and the last decade or so have seen it move beyond the domain of computer people to it being an integrated part of everyday life. But the attitude of both law makers and law enforcement, definitely seems to view it in a different light.
An 18 year old is being charged for sharing the livestream of the event, and posting threatening messages on Facebook prior to the event (link up above somewhere). It's not really accurate to say "the government is ignoring things because they are taking place on the internet".
We also had some neo-nazi arrested in Christchurch for essentially being, doing and promoting nazi shit
Want to play co-op games? Feel free to hit me up!
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I think the key point is that the 18 year old lives in NZ, while the owners of these sites are overseas and are harder to get at legally. The NZ government would very much like to deal with this, but it can't.
This is where we run into the problem of where to draw the line on internet host / site owner responsibility for what users do. Which is a whole other thread.
Beneficial Insulation's company logo is a sunwheel, or black sun, which was appropriated by Nazis.
Beneficial Insulation also charges $14.88 per metre for insulation – 14.88 is a hate symbol popular with white extremists.
The company's website www.BIIG.co.nz, is an acronym for the company's full name Beneficial Insulation Installs Guaranteed. BIIg was the name of a barracks at Auschwitz concentration camp, operated by Nazi Germany in occupied Poland during World War II and the Holocaust.
Pretty sad indictment on NZ that this guy has been operating his business with this branding for years without anybody taking it seriously. This is the sort of thing that makes the "this is not us" calls ring a bit hollow. Nobody really gave a shit about racist culture as long as it seemed 'harmless'.
Beneficial Insulation's company logo is a sunwheel, or black sun, which was appropriated by Nazis.
Beneficial Insulation also charges $14.88 per metre for insulation – 14.88 is a hate symbol popular with white extremists.
The company's website www.BIIG.co.nz, is an acronym for the company's full name Beneficial Insulation Installs Guaranteed. BIIg was the name of a barracks at Auschwitz concentration camp, operated by Nazi Germany in occupied Poland during World War II and the Holocaust.
Pretty sad indictment on NZ that this guy has been operating his business with this branding for years without anybody taking it seriously. This is the sort of thing that makes the "this is not us" calls ring a bit hollow. Nobody really gave a shit about racist culture as long as it seemed 'harmless'.
To be fair, that's all pretty high level dog whistling. It's only in a world where Google exists and neo-Nazis are a thing that people think about that this type of behavior gets called out.
Beneficial Insulation's company logo is a sunwheel, or black sun, which was appropriated by Nazis.
Beneficial Insulation also charges $14.88 per metre for insulation – 14.88 is a hate symbol popular with white extremists.
The company's website www.BIIG.co.nz, is an acronym for the company's full name Beneficial Insulation Installs Guaranteed. BIIg was the name of a barracks at Auschwitz concentration camp, operated by Nazi Germany in occupied Poland during World War II and the Holocaust.
Pretty sad indictment on NZ that this guy has been operating his business with this branding for years without anybody taking it seriously. This is the sort of thing that makes the "this is not us" calls ring a bit hollow. Nobody really gave a shit about racist culture as long as it seemed 'harmless'.
To be fair, that's all pretty high level dog whistling. It's only in a world where Google exists and neo-Nazis are a thing that people think about that this type of behavior gets called out.
I know I had never heard of any of this. It does make me wonder if there could be any similar dog whistles in my area that I'm unaware of.
Beneficial Insulation's company logo is a sunwheel, or black sun, which was appropriated by Nazis.
Beneficial Insulation also charges $14.88 per metre for insulation – 14.88 is a hate symbol popular with white extremists.
The company's website www.BIIG.co.nz, is an acronym for the company's full name Beneficial Insulation Installs Guaranteed. BIIg was the name of a barracks at Auschwitz concentration camp, operated by Nazi Germany in occupied Poland during World War II and the Holocaust.
Pretty sad indictment on NZ that this guy has been operating his business with this branding for years without anybody taking it seriously. This is the sort of thing that makes the "this is not us" calls ring a bit hollow. Nobody really gave a shit about racist culture as long as it seemed 'harmless'.
To be fair, that's all pretty high level dog whistling. It's only in a world where Google exists and neo-Nazis are a thing that people think about that this type of behavior gets called out.
I know I had never heard of any of this. It does make me wonder if there could be any similar dog whistles in my area that I'm unaware of.
They're fucking everywhere, and they invent new nomenclature at a pace unprecedented up until contemporary times. Think about how quickly (the royal) we cycle through internet memes and you'll have an idea of how quickly hate groups create and appropriate new terminology and secret shibboleths with which to signal their existence to one another. Keeping track of it all is exhausting. If it weren't for these boards and the SLPC, I'd be hopelessly unaware of all the new iconography and code words these fuck-stains make use of.
I think the key point is that the 18 year old lives in NZ, while the owners of these sites are overseas and are harder to get at legally. The NZ government would very much like to deal with this, but it can't.
They could get other governments to help, and those that don't help they could try to label as sponsors of terrorism.
If that means the US is painted as a sponsor and exporter of terrorism, well, if it walks, quacks, swims, flies, and looks like a duck...
Edit: Yes, I know this is not how the world works, and that NZ's relatively small stature on the world stage means it never will happen.
Veevee on
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TL DRNot at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered Userregular
Beneficial Insulation's company logo is a sunwheel, or black sun, which was appropriated by Nazis.
Beneficial Insulation also charges $14.88 per metre for insulation – 14.88 is a hate symbol popular with white extremists.
The company's website www.BIIG.co.nz, is an acronym for the company's full name Beneficial Insulation Installs Guaranteed. BIIg was the name of a barracks at Auschwitz concentration camp, operated by Nazi Germany in occupied Poland during World War II and the Holocaust.
Pretty sad indictment on NZ that this guy has been operating his business with this branding for years without anybody taking it seriously. This is the sort of thing that makes the "this is not us" calls ring a bit hollow. Nobody really gave a shit about racist culture as long as it seemed 'harmless'.
To be fair, that's all pretty high level dog whistling. It's only in a world where Google exists and neo-Nazis are a thing that people think about that this type of behavior gets called out.
I know I had never heard of any of this. It does make me wonder if there could be any similar dog whistles in my area that I'm unaware of.
It depends on your locale, but almost certainly - especially since these fucks are anything but original.
Beneficial Insulation's company logo is a sunwheel, or black sun, which was appropriated by Nazis.
Beneficial Insulation also charges $14.88 per metre for insulation – 14.88 is a hate symbol popular with white extremists.
The company's website www.BIIG.co.nz, is an acronym for the company's full name Beneficial Insulation Installs Guaranteed. BIIg was the name of a barracks at Auschwitz concentration camp, operated by Nazi Germany in occupied Poland during World War II and the Holocaust.
Pretty sad indictment on NZ that this guy has been operating his business with this branding for years without anybody taking it seriously. This is the sort of thing that makes the "this is not us" calls ring a bit hollow. Nobody really gave a shit about racist culture as long as it seemed 'harmless'.
To be fair, that's all pretty high level dog whistling. It's only in a world where Google exists and neo-Nazis are a thing that people think about that this type of behavior gets called out.
I know I had never heard of any of this. It does make me wonder if there could be any similar dog whistles in my area that I'm unaware of.
They're fucking everywhere, and they invent new nomenclature at a pace unprecedented up until contemporary times. Think about how quickly (the royal) we cycle through internet memes and you'll have an idea of how quickly hate groups create and appropriate new terminology and secret shibboleths with which to signal their existence to one another. Keeping track of it all is exhausting. If it weren't for these boards and the SLPC, I'd be hopelessly unaware of all the new iconography and code words these fuck-stains make use of.
Yeah, now that "subscribe to PewDiePie" is out in the open, they're going to abandon that one soon and come up with something new again.
Beneficial Insulation's company logo is a sunwheel, or black sun, which was appropriated by Nazis.
Beneficial Insulation also charges $14.88 per metre for insulation – 14.88 is a hate symbol popular with white extremists.
The company's website www.BIIG.co.nz, is an acronym for the company's full name Beneficial Insulation Installs Guaranteed. BIIg was the name of a barracks at Auschwitz concentration camp, operated by Nazi Germany in occupied Poland during World War II and the Holocaust.
Pretty sad indictment on NZ that this guy has been operating his business with this branding for years without anybody taking it seriously. This is the sort of thing that makes the "this is not us" calls ring a bit hollow. Nobody really gave a shit about racist culture as long as it seemed 'harmless'.
To be fair, that's all pretty high level dog whistling. It's only in a world where Google exists and neo-Nazis are a thing that people think about that this type of behavior gets called out.
I know I had never heard of any of this. It does make me wonder if there could be any similar dog whistles in my area that I'm unaware of.
They're fucking everywhere, and they invent new nomenclature at a pace unprecedented up until contemporary times. Think about how quickly (the royal) we cycle through internet memes and you'll have an idea of how quickly hate groups create and appropriate new terminology and secret shibboleths with which to signal their existence to one another. Keeping track of it all is exhausting. If it weren't for these boards and the SLPC, I'd be hopelessly unaware of all the new iconography and code words these fuck-stains make use of.
Yeah, now that "subscribe to PewDiePie" is out in the open, they're going to abandon that one soon and come up with something new again.
The problem with all of these symbols is that they have to be recognizable to work, and the Internet exists for people wanting to check up on them now. When these signs are passed around in clubs and living rooms, they serve their purpose, but this attack has raised awareness about the way the fascist right signals fellow believers. That's why we see actions like with the insulation business being taken on an official basis, and these sort of conversations are much less likely to be shutdown by eyerolling from the gaslighting brigades.
Beneficial Insulation's company logo is a sunwheel, or black sun, which was appropriated by Nazis.
Beneficial Insulation also charges $14.88 per metre for insulation – 14.88 is a hate symbol popular with white extremists.
The company's website www.BIIG.co.nz, is an acronym for the company's full name Beneficial Insulation Installs Guaranteed. BIIg was the name of a barracks at Auschwitz concentration camp, operated by Nazi Germany in occupied Poland during World War II and the Holocaust.
Pretty sad indictment on NZ that this guy has been operating his business with this branding for years without anybody taking it seriously. This is the sort of thing that makes the "this is not us" calls ring a bit hollow. Nobody really gave a shit about racist culture as long as it seemed 'harmless'.
To be fair, that's all pretty high level dog whistling. It's only in a world where Google exists and neo-Nazis are a thing that people think about that this type of behavior gets called out.
I know I had never heard of any of this. It does make me wonder if there could be any similar dog whistles in my area that I'm unaware of.
They're fucking everywhere, and they invent new nomenclature at a pace unprecedented up until contemporary times. Think about how quickly (the royal) we cycle through internet memes and you'll have an idea of how quickly hate groups create and appropriate new terminology and secret shibboleths with which to signal their existence to one another. Keeping track of it all is exhausting. If it weren't for these boards and the SLPC, I'd be hopelessly unaware of all the new iconography and code words these fuck-stains make use of.
And they do it so that there is reasonable doubt, like the OK sign. Its been around forever, but as a general sign used by certain countries instead of the thumbs up sign. Italy is one such country, which is why you can fine stereotypical pictures of Italian Chefs doing it. In Greece it was the opposite I think, with the symbol meaning asshole.
Recently alt-right nazis decided to hijack it for their own ends. Cue lots of people claiming it was not a white supremacist symbol due to it having existed for years. Some people even showed screenshots of 4chan message board with text claiming it was a joke on anti-fascist community in order to make them look crazy. Then the shooter did the sign as he entered the courtroom.
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
Beneficial Insulation's company logo is a sunwheel, or black sun, which was appropriated by Nazis.
Beneficial Insulation also charges $14.88 per metre for insulation – 14.88 is a hate symbol popular with white extremists.
The company's website www.BIIG.co.nz, is an acronym for the company's full name Beneficial Insulation Installs Guaranteed. BIIg was the name of a barracks at Auschwitz concentration camp, operated by Nazi Germany in occupied Poland during World War II and the Holocaust.
Pretty sad indictment on NZ that this guy has been operating his business with this branding for years without anybody taking it seriously. This is the sort of thing that makes the "this is not us" calls ring a bit hollow. Nobody really gave a shit about racist culture as long as it seemed 'harmless'.
To be fair, that's all pretty high level dog whistling. It's only in a world where Google exists and neo-Nazis are a thing that people think about that this type of behavior gets called out.
I know I had never heard of any of this. It does make me wonder if there could be any similar dog whistles in my area that I'm unaware of.
They're fucking everywhere, and they invent new nomenclature at a pace unprecedented up until contemporary times. Think about how quickly (the royal) we cycle through internet memes and you'll have an idea of how quickly hate groups create and appropriate new terminology and secret shibboleths with which to signal their existence to one another. Keeping track of it all is exhausting. If it weren't for these boards and the SLPC, I'd be hopelessly unaware of all the new iconography and code words these fuck-stains make use of.
And they do it so that there is reasonable doubt, like the OK sign. Its been around forever, but as a general sign used by certain countries instead of the thumbs up sign. Italy is one such country, which is why you can fine stereotypical pictures of Italian Chefs doing it. In Greece it was the opposite I think, with the symbol meaning asshole.
Recently alt-right nazis decided to hijack it for their own ends. Cue lots of people claiming it was not a white supremacist symbol due to it having existed for years. Some people even showed screenshots of 4chan message board with text claiming it was a joke on anti-fascist community in order to make them look crazy. Then the shooter did the sign as he entered the courtroom.
4chan's "It's all a joke" pose has been looking threadbare for a long time.
Beneficial Insulation's company logo is a sunwheel, or black sun, which was appropriated by Nazis.
Beneficial Insulation also charges $14.88 per metre for insulation – 14.88 is a hate symbol popular with white extremists.
The company's website www.BIIG.co.nz, is an acronym for the company's full name Beneficial Insulation Installs Guaranteed. BIIg was the name of a barracks at Auschwitz concentration camp, operated by Nazi Germany in occupied Poland during World War II and the Holocaust.
Pretty sad indictment on NZ that this guy has been operating his business with this branding for years without anybody taking it seriously. This is the sort of thing that makes the "this is not us" calls ring a bit hollow. Nobody really gave a shit about racist culture as long as it seemed 'harmless'.
To be fair, that's all pretty high level dog whistling. It's only in a world where Google exists and neo-Nazis are a thing that people think about that this type of behavior gets called out.
I know I had never heard of any of this. It does make me wonder if there could be any similar dog whistles in my area that I'm unaware of.
They're fucking everywhere, and they invent new nomenclature at a pace unprecedented up until contemporary times. Think about how quickly (the royal) we cycle through internet memes and you'll have an idea of how quickly hate groups create and appropriate new terminology and secret shibboleths with which to signal their existence to one another. Keeping track of it all is exhausting. If it weren't for these boards and the SLPC, I'd be hopelessly unaware of all the new iconography and code words these fuck-stains make use of.
And they do it so that there is reasonable doubt, like the OK sign. Its been around forever, but as a general sign used by certain countries instead of the thumbs up sign. Italy is one such country, which is why you can fine stereotypical pictures of Italian Chefs doing it. In Greece it was the opposite I think, with the symbol meaning asshole.
Recently alt-right nazis decided to hijack it for their own ends. Cue lots of people claiming it was not a white supremacist symbol due to it having existed for years. Some people even showed screenshots of 4chan message board with text claiming it was a joke on anti-fascist community in order to make them look crazy. Then the shooter did the sign as he entered the courtroom.
4chan's "It's all a joke" pose has been looking threadbare for a long time.
The term "Schrodinger's Douchebag" really sums it up:
We need to be collapsing the waveform for them - if you're actually opposed to bigotry, then you just don't make those sort of references.
Posts
The people sitting face to face need to break the cycle
The people throwing rocks need to be arrested
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
Per the Beeb
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-47599586
Thank you. I remember initial reporting made it sound like a possible small terrorist cell, them haven't heard a thing since.
It may. He probably doesnt plan on winning but it probably means he gets to deliver his own closing/opening and to testify once without being questioned(which would give him more leeway in what he can say)
I imagine the whole point is he gets to spew his bigoted alt-right garbage in court.
If the NZ court system is actually sane the whole thing will be closed doors and it'll never get out to the public and so we all win. Except, the people in the court room who have to listen to his crap. They take one for the team.
She said that was up to the courts an the media to decide, but she herself will never say the shooter's name.
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I also read they’re considering not charging him with terrorism and ‘only’ for 50 counts of murder, so he doesn’t get the chance to grandstand on his ideology.
All for not letting this jagoff spew his ideology, but it’s important that this act be called what it is. Don’t let anybody get away with not calling this terrorism from the far right.
Yeah, there has to be another work around.
Note that 'terrorism', such as it is legally defined in New Zealand law, revolves around organised classical terrorist organisations, with multiple members, cells, and doesn't necessarily well fit solo provocateurs, regardless of the existence of ethereal 'wider online community' that may have helped radicalise them. It's just not a good fit for the law. Murder, on the other hand, is pretty well understood and defined by law. The terrorism laws exist around such well-defined laws, trying to act to criminalise actions that groups of people might do in furtherance of a terrorist agenda, where these are not also already existing crimes in their own right.
That said, socially, the overwhelming consensus is that this was terrorism. No one here is even trying to deny that. I'm not aware of there being anywhere that that is even part of the discussion.
I wonder, is there any way to arrest the admins of the websites for not reporting credible terrorist threats, or whatever the relevant charge would be?
edit: the websites where he discussed his plans, obviously. that seems like a broader organization to me, and there's certainly other white supremacists on those websites that operate in different countries and have their own circles of extremists. sure sounds like a terrorist group to me, the only thing missing is a name, and even then, lots of these guys are in groups with identifiable symbols and names and leadership structures and stuff! they're terrorists! I know I'm certainly bemoaning a point here but I sure hope no one thinks otherwise.
An argument could be made for gross negligence to report a suspected crime to the proper authorities.
And it is amazing, in retrospect, how well the insularity of forums and website culture resembles a cell structure naturally.
I agree with everything you said except clueless.
People have been woke to this for a while, but the......wild west of the internet, for a long time, have been able keep a large gap between what is legal what an individual can be charged successfully convicted of, and their actions.
A lot of these boards know that once one slips up and becomes legally culpable for an event like this, and are successfully made to face legal and or financial consequences, the others will have to pay the piper.
But does the internet need 4chan anymore with the rise of reddit, imgur, twitter, and other social media outlets?
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
It was the "official" part of @Phillishere 's comment that's important.
People are aware of this. Politicians aren't. At least in a manner that matters. Whether it's genuine ignorance, intentional ignorance, or plead ignorance, the reason that there's a discrepancy between "outside the internet" and "on the internet" is because they're choosing not to make it so.
Don't get me wrong, politicians meddling with the workings of the internet scares the crap out of me. But this isn't that. This is about treating what happens on the internet as somehow lesser to what happens in real life. As it appears will be the case in this instance.
While there are clearly some instances where it's not true (like the one you pointed out), as @Phillishere pointed out, it happens with significantly less frequency than if it were done through another medium (in person, phone calls, snail mail). Sure, anonymity is an issue, as is jurisdiction (NZ police really can't do shit about assholes in the US, for example), but even when the identity is known, and they're within the jurisdiction they're treated differently.
Hopefully that changes, and this 18yo is the rule, not the exception.
Again, that may be the case in this instance. I was arguing from a more generalized perspective, about how bullying, harrassment and threats of violence are treated separately depending on if it's online or not.
I hope that this instance brings about substantive change, but it's been 20+ years and the last decade or so have seen it move beyond the domain of computer people to it being an integrated part of everyday life. But the attitude of both law makers and law enforcement, definitely seems to view it in a different light.
But we're moving beyond the scope of this thread.
We also had some neo-nazi arrested in Christchurch for essentially being, doing and promoting nazi shit
Want to play co-op games? Feel free to hit me up!
To be fair, that's all pretty high level dog whistling. It's only in a world where Google exists and neo-Nazis are a thing that people think about that this type of behavior gets called out.
I know I had never heard of any of this. It does make me wonder if there could be any similar dog whistles in my area that I'm unaware of.
They're fucking everywhere, and they invent new nomenclature at a pace unprecedented up until contemporary times. Think about how quickly (the royal) we cycle through internet memes and you'll have an idea of how quickly hate groups create and appropriate new terminology and secret shibboleths with which to signal their existence to one another. Keeping track of it all is exhausting. If it weren't for these boards and the SLPC, I'd be hopelessly unaware of all the new iconography and code words these fuck-stains make use of.
They could get other governments to help, and those that don't help they could try to label as sponsors of terrorism.
If that means the US is painted as a sponsor and exporter of terrorism, well, if it walks, quacks, swims, flies, and looks like a duck...
Edit: Yes, I know this is not how the world works, and that NZ's relatively small stature on the world stage means it never will happen.
It depends on your locale, but almost certainly - especially since these fucks are anything but original.
The SPLC has a handy guide on the symbols present at Charlottesville, for instance.
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
Haven't you answered your own question?
Yeah, now that "subscribe to PewDiePie" is out in the open, they're going to abandon that one soon and come up with something new again.
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
What's the difference?
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
The problem with all of these symbols is that they have to be recognizable to work, and the Internet exists for people wanting to check up on them now. When these signs are passed around in clubs and living rooms, they serve their purpose, but this attack has raised awareness about the way the fascist right signals fellow believers. That's why we see actions like with the insulation business being taken on an official basis, and these sort of conversations are much less likely to be shutdown by eyerolling from the gaslighting brigades.
And they do it so that there is reasonable doubt, like the OK sign. Its been around forever, but as a general sign used by certain countries instead of the thumbs up sign. Italy is one such country, which is why you can fine stereotypical pictures of Italian Chefs doing it. In Greece it was the opposite I think, with the symbol meaning asshole.
Recently alt-right nazis decided to hijack it for their own ends. Cue lots of people claiming it was not a white supremacist symbol due to it having existed for years. Some people even showed screenshots of 4chan message board with text claiming it was a joke on anti-fascist community in order to make them look crazy. Then the shooter did the sign as he entered the courtroom.
4chan's "It's all a joke" pose has been looking threadbare for a long time.
The term "Schrodinger's Douchebag" really sums it up:
We need to be collapsing the waveform for them - if you're actually opposed to bigotry, then you just don't make those sort of references.
Also, NZ ISPs have begun to block sites that forward the video, such as the chans.