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[Education] - Where Silicon Valley Is What's The Matter With Kansas

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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Sounds like we're about to lose our superintendent because for five weeks nobody told the parents of an autistic boy that he had been repeatedly struck by a bus aide. From the staff side of things, good riddance if so.

    The kid was seven, there's video and the school knew about it the next day. And they kept the aid on the bus for*weeks* after. The kid became terrified of the bus, and his mom didn't know the extent of what happened. Mom had enrolled him in a special program, and the kids in the bus were all in this program, so keeping that aid on the bus was awful.
    And so many involved just covered it up for as long as they could.

    Yeah, I know. Emergency union meeting on Tuesday to discuss it, apparently. Not the only reason for the woman to be fired, frankly.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Other education stuff: New College is eliminating gender studies because DeSantis put Chris Rufo in charge. Sigh.

    And West Virginia University is broke so is proposing to eliminate World Languages entirely. The guy who mismanaged the university so badly that they're broke is still the president and being paid 800k.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    World Languages department was cash positive

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    RanlinRanlin Oh gosh Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    World Languages department was cash positive

    I see you've identified why it must go.

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    Stabbity StyleStabbity Style He/Him | Warning: Mothership Reporting Kennewick, WARegistered User regular
    Conservatives in a nearby town (Dayton, Washington) are voting to shut down their only local library because there are books with sexual content there or something. They gathered enough signatures to get it on the ballot.

    https://www.union-bulletin.com/news/local/governments/effort-to-dissolve-library-district-to-appear-on-columbia-county-general-election-ballot/article_4407ebaa-3184-11ee-8dab-6799a5e86776.html
    Columbia County voters will decide in November whether to dissolve the Columbia County Rural Library District through a referendum that will appear on the Nov. 7 general election ballot.
    To be added to the ballot, the petition had to have at least 107 signatures, 10% of registered voters in the unincorporated areas of the county.
    Ruffcorn, along with a group of residents, organized the petition campaign to dissolve the library district after attempts failed to get certain books concerning gender, sexual identity and anti-racism removed from library shelves.

    Stabbity_Style.png
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    ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User, Moderator mod
    Ugh. They can't just burn the place down like they want to, so that's the next subtlest and most socially-acceptable alternative.

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    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Sounds like we're about to lose our superintendent because for five weeks nobody told the parents of an autistic boy that he had been repeatedly struck by a bus aide. From the staff side of things, good riddance if so.

    The kid was seven, there's video and the school knew about it the next day. And they kept the aid on the bus for*weeks* after. The kid became terrified of the bus, and his mom didn't know the extent of what happened. Mom had enrolled him in a special program, and the kids in the bus were all in this program, so keeping that aid on the bus was awful.
    And so many involved just covered it up for as long as they could.

    Yeah, I know. Emergency union meeting on Tuesday to discuss it, apparently. Not the only reason for the woman to be fired, frankly.

    Not the only one who should be fired, if the claim that people knew about it for weeks.

    Fucking tired of this shit. If you actively witness abuse, and don't immediately report it up the chain, and it gets to the principal's level and they're not calling in protective services immediately, then your ass should be out the door too.

    As soon as someone in authority knew about this, the timeline should be at best, end of school the following day. I'm giving a little leeway for someone finding out late in the afternoon of that first day, and not being able to report it until first thing the next day.

    "What did you do to stop the abuse?" should not have *shrug* as a non-termination answer.

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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited August 2023
    MorganV wrote: »
    Sounds like we're about to lose our superintendent because for five weeks nobody told the parents of an autistic boy that he had been repeatedly struck by a bus aide. From the staff side of things, good riddance if so.

    The kid was seven, there's video and the school knew about it the next day. And they kept the aid on the bus for*weeks* after. The kid became terrified of the bus, and his mom didn't know the extent of what happened. Mom had enrolled him in a special program, and the kids in the bus were all in this program, so keeping that aid on the bus was awful.
    And so many involved just covered it up for as long as they could.

    Yeah, I know. Emergency union meeting on Tuesday to discuss it, apparently. Not the only reason for the woman to be fired, frankly.

    Not the only one who should be fired, if the claim that people knew about it for weeks.

    Fucking tired of this shit. If you actively witness abuse, and don't immediately report it up the chain, and it gets to the principal's level and they're not calling in protective services immediately, then your ass should be out the door too.

    As soon as someone in authority knew about this, the timeline should be at best, end of school the following day. I'm giving a little leeway for someone finding out late in the afternoon of that first day, and not being able to report it until first thing the next day.

    "What did you do to stop the abuse?" should not have *shrug* as a non-termination answer.

    Story
    The next day, on Dec. 15, 2021, multiple Carpenter students told AAPS staff they saw Jefferson hit the boy on the bus, the lawsuit alleges, reporting the incident to at least one teacher and one social worker.

    On “or about” the same day, the social worker and/or other AAPS staff gave (Carpenter Principal - eb) Johnson written reports about the assault and the interviews with children who witnessed it, the lawsuit states.

    A report was filed with Child Protective Services for the incident by an unknown party, on or about Dec. 15, the lawsuit states. No one at AAPS notified Nelson-Molnar that multiple children had separately reported her son had been physically assaulted on the bus, the lawsuit states.

    On Dec. 16, the boy’s teacher contacted Johnson about the assault reported by the students, expressing her “sincere concerns” that the bus aide was allowed to continue on the bus with Nelson-Molnar’s son and other children with disabilities, the lawsuit states.

    I would almost guarantee the classroom teacher was the unknown party, that shit is drilled into our heads. That's text from the lawsuit the mother filed thus the "on or about" language.

    There are basically two issues:

    1) Nobody told the mother for five weeks, until the teacher did. This is not technically illegal by my understanding of the law, but is fucked up from a moral standpoint.
    2) The bus aide was allowed to remain on the bus until the company AAPS contracts busing to actually looked at their footage...at which point they just transferred the woman to a different bus.

    I love a lot of things about AAPS but admin is incredibly political and mostly focused on protecting themselves so they can move up the career ladder. It's very The Wire.

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User, Moderator mod
    MorganV wrote: »
    Sounds like we're about to lose our superintendent because for five weeks nobody told the parents of an autistic boy that he had been repeatedly struck by a bus aide. From the staff side of things, good riddance if so.

    The kid was seven, there's video and the school knew about it the next day. And they kept the aid on the bus for*weeks* after. The kid became terrified of the bus, and his mom didn't know the extent of what happened. Mom had enrolled him in a special program, and the kids in the bus were all in this program, so keeping that aid on the bus was awful.
    And so many involved just covered it up for as long as they could.

    Yeah, I know. Emergency union meeting on Tuesday to discuss it, apparently. Not the only reason for the woman to be fired, frankly.

    Not the only one who should be fired, if the claim that people knew about it for weeks.

    Fucking tired of this shit. If you actively witness abuse, and don't immediately report it up the chain, and it gets to the principal's level and they're not calling in protective services immediately, then your ass should be out the door too.

    As soon as someone in authority knew about this, the timeline should be at best, end of school the following day. I'm giving a little leeway for someone finding out late in the afternoon of that first day, and not being able to report it until first thing the next day.

    "What did you do to stop the abuse?" should not have *shrug* as a non-termination answer.

    Seriously. In my neck of the woods failure to - at a minimum - immediately report something like that isn't a firing offense for any school employees who witnessed it, it's a criminal offense for any adult who didn't say something. Shrugging something like that off involves potential prison time here.

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    zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    So I'm genuinely surprised by this and assume there must be more to this story. Carpenter is the school where my kid went for K-5, and the principal mentioned in the story is a neighbor and good family friend.

    He's one of the most genuine and good people I've ever met. Like personally I would be shocked if he didn't put in every bit of effort necessary to do the right thing. Reading this story, the idea he just sort of sat on this and let it go to protect himself and his career is in such conflict with the man I immediately assume these were orders that came down from above that he was trying to push around.

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    enc0reenc0re Registered User regular
    edited August 2023
    This is the part I don't get. Why did nobody call the police? We are talking about assault and battery against a minor.

    Schools aren't some extrajudicial corpostate out of your preferred cyberpunk dystopia.

    enc0re on
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    Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    edited August 2023
    Not primary schools at least

    You don’t get the extrajudicial corpostate until you get to post-secondary and need to cover up for a serial sexual assailant

    Captain Inertia on
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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    enc0re wrote: »
    This is the part I don't get. Why did nobody call the police? We are talking about assault and battery against a minor.

    Schools aren't some extrajudicial corpostate out of your preferred cyberpunk dystopia.

    The aide was ultimately arrested and convicted. So somebody did, but the timeline isn't exactly clear.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    enc0re wrote: »
    This is the part I don't get. Why did nobody call the police? We are talking about assault and battery against a minor.

    Schools aren't some extrajudicial corpostate out of your preferred cyberpunk dystopia.

    The aide was ultimately arrested and convicted. So somebody did, but the timeline isn't exactly clear.

    The reports I saw said that Principal Johnson submitted reports the day it was reported to him, so I assume those were to the school system and legally required reports to CPS. Michael is still the principal at Carpenter and I'd assume he wouldn't still be there almost two years later if he didn't do at least the minimum he was required by law and policy.

    Like I can't stress enough that this is a dude who I trust and genuinely think as highly of as anyone I've met. Him taking shortcuts and not doing everything he could to do the right thing for his kids and parents is absurd to me. He's the neighbor whose house we told our kid she could always go to if there was an emergency and we weren't there and the kind of guy who will stop and hop out of his car to give you a hand if he sees you struggling with something.

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    MulysaSemproniusMulysaSempronius but also susie nyRegistered User regular
    Everybody was notified when it happened *except the mother* and the *aid stayed on the bus for weeks after*
    It's like they did what was required of them, but didn't go the extra step to make sure it stopped happening and didn't happen again.

    I mean, the timeline doesn't show a very good picture:
    Since 2020 - Rochanda Jefferson is moved around on AAPS buses 3 times over a year and a half, once after threatening a teacher
    12/14/2021 - Jefferson, an aide on a special needs bus, assaults a young boy with autism, on a bus with other special needs students.
    12/15/2021 - Multiple witnesses notify the staff and leadership at AAPS of the assault
    12/15/2021 - Staff notifies the principal at Carpenter Elementary by written report
    12/15/2021 - Report filed with Child Protective Services (CPS) by an unidentified person
    12/16/2021 - The child's teacher contacts mom to say she is unhappy that Jefferson remains on the child's bus
    ~4 weeks later - AAPS administration reviews tape of assault and removes aide from bus, and files report with CPS
    1/18/2022 - Child's teacher emails Carpenter Elementary principal that she feels she can no longer keep the assault from the child's mother
    1/19/2022 - Carpenter Elementary Principal emails mother to notify her of "incidents" involving her son
    3/15/2022 - Police inform mother of assault charges, provide with video, the first time she learns the extent of the violence against her child.
    6/28/2023 - Jefferson is convicted of 4th degree Child Abuse in criminal court
    7/26/2023 - lawsuit naming AAPS, Durham School Services, and Principal filed
    https://www.damnarbor.com/2023/08/letter-to-editor-tragedy-at-ann-arbor.html

    If that's all there is my friends, then let's keep dancing
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    zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    Everybody was notified when it happened *except the mother* and the *aid stayed on the bus for weeks after*
    It's like they did what was required of them, but didn't go the extra step to make sure it stopped happening and didn't happen again.

    I mean, the timeline doesn't show a very good picture:
    Since 2020 - Rochanda Jefferson is moved around on AAPS buses 3 times over a year and a half, once after threatening a teacher
    12/14/2021 - Jefferson, an aide on a special needs bus, assaults a young boy with autism, on a bus with other special needs students.
    12/15/2021 - Multiple witnesses notify the staff and leadership at AAPS of the assault
    12/15/2021 - Staff notifies the principal at Carpenter Elementary by written report
    12/15/2021 - Report filed with Child Protective Services (CPS) by an unidentified person
    12/16/2021 - The child's teacher contacts mom to say she is unhappy that Jefferson remains on the child's bus
    ~4 weeks later - AAPS administration reviews tape of assault and removes aide from bus, and files report with CPS
    1/18/2022 - Child's teacher emails Carpenter Elementary principal that she feels she can no longer keep the assault from the child's mother
    1/19/2022 - Carpenter Elementary Principal emails mother to notify her of "incidents" involving her son
    3/15/2022 - Police inform mother of assault charges, provide with video, the first time she learns the extent of the violence against her child.
    6/28/2023 - Jefferson is convicted of 4th degree Child Abuse in criminal court
    7/26/2023 - lawsuit naming AAPS, Durham School Services, and Principal filed
    https://www.damnarbor.com/2023/08/letter-to-editor-tragedy-at-ann-arbor.html

    One thing of note is that Winter Break began 12/17 in 2021 and was extended until January 5th due to a huge COVID spike after the holidays. The schools were remote most of that first week and the first in-person day was 1/11.

    Not intended as a defense of the timeline, but it is important context that for most of those four weeks the school was closed and at first when everyone was back busses weren't running because everyone was virtual. I'm not sure how active (or if at all) the school administration is over the holiday period outside of COVID planning.

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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    From experience, they're pretty active.

    It's institutional capture. You see it all the time. Otherwise good people do stupid shit because they value protecting the institution they are a part of/in charge of first.

    Sidenote: it's kind of fascinating that there's been nothing about the school board vote from admin at all. As we enter back to school stuff (for staff) in 10 days.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    WVU School of Mathematical and Data Sciences
    📢 Sad News: WVU recommends ending Math graduate programs (MS & PhD). This means that there will potentially be no PhD math program in WV. A puzzling move for a land-grant institution! #MathMatters #WVU #EducationMatters
    Just going to murder that university due to incompetence

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    HedgethornHedgethorn Associate Professor of Historical Hobby Horses In the Lions' DenRegistered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    WVU School of Mathematical and Data Sciences
    📢 Sad News: WVU recommends ending Math graduate programs (MS & PhD). This means that there will potentially be no PhD math program in WV. A puzzling move for a land-grant institution! #MathMatters #WVU #EducationMatters
    Just going to murder that university due to incompetence

    The demographic cliff (a large drop in birthrates starting in 2008, especially among whites) is going to result in many more stories like this in higher ed in the next five years. There just aren't enough domestic students going forward for the number of colleges and universities, particularly in the northeast and the midwest, and that's exacerbated in red states where the culture war and the economy are leading to fewer men going to college at all. WVU is a canary in a coal mine, not a huge outlier. Every place that isn't an Ivy or a top 20 state university is going to be seeing cuts and program eliminations like this.

    WVU had 23k undergrads ten years ago, 21k five years ago, and 19k last year. And their first year class last year was smaller still. I wouldn't be surprised to see them below 18k when they have to publicize enrollment numbers in a few months. I hate to see program closures, but you can't pretend it's business as normal when enrollment drops 25% in ten years. The era of every university offering every program under the sun is over, even if not everyone realizes that yet.

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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    The bigger problem was that Gee predicted they'd have 40k students and had to do a massive building plan to accommodate that total. Which they financed with borrowed money and obviously failed to meet the targets.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    The bigger problem was that Gee predicted they'd have 40k students and had to do a massive building plan to accommodate that total. Which they financed with borrowed money and obviously failed to meet the targets.

    What gave them that idea? That's a huge increase in attendance in fucking West Virginia.

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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    The bigger problem was that Gee predicted they'd have 40k students and had to do a massive building plan to accommodate that total. Which they financed with borrowed money and obviously failed to meet the targets.

    What gave them that idea? That's a huge increase in attendance in fucking West Virginia.

    He's a fraud and a con artist and always has been?

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    SoggybiscuitSoggybiscuit Tandem Electrostatic Accelerator Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    WVU School of Mathematical and Data Sciences
    📢 Sad News: WVU recommends ending Math graduate programs (MS & PhD). This means that there will potentially be no PhD math program in WV. A puzzling move for a land-grant institution! #MathMatters #WVU #EducationMatters
    Just going to murder that university due to incompetence

    Yikes. I’m at OU and while our enrollment isn’t what it used to be it did increase and especially graduate enrollment (10% increase ‘21 -> ‘22).
    I’m from WV and I have absolutely zero desire to ever return. It needs highly educated citizens to recover from the death of coal mining. I just can’t stand the people though.

    Steam - Synthetic Violence | XBOX Live - Cannonfuse | PSN - CastleBravo | Twitch - SoggybiscuitPA
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    Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    edited August 2023
    West Virginia seems like they are a place where the majority of the population is actively hostile towards anybody who could or would actually help them recover from the economic deathspiral they seem to be in, and I'm not really sure what you're supposed to do about that.

    Lord_Asmodeus on
    Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    West Virginia seems like they are a place where the majority of the population is actively hostile towards anybody who could or would actually help them recover from the economic deathspiral they seem to be in, and I'm not really sure what you're supposed to do about that.

    It's a problem that a lot of rural areas are facing - there's just no economic rationale for a lot of these resource extraction towns anymore. There are some that could shift to other industries like tourism, but a lot of them just...aren't viable anymore, and that's a bitter pill to swallow.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
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    Marty81Marty81 Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    The bigger problem was that Gee predicted they'd have 40k students and had to do a massive building plan to accommodate that total. Which they financed with borrowed money and obviously failed to meet the targets.

    What gave them that idea? That's a huge increase in attendance in fucking West Virginia.

    You don't get into leadership roles by projecting negative growth.

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    TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    West Virginia seems like they are a place where the majority of the population is actively hostile towards anybody who could or would actually help them recover from the economic deathspiral they seem to be in, and I'm not really sure what you're supposed to do about that.

    It's a problem that a lot of rural areas are facing - there's just no economic rationale for a lot of these resource extraction towns anymore. There are some that could shift to other industries like tourism, but a lot of them just...aren't viable anymore, and that's a bitter pill to swallow.

    Do remember suggesting relocation programs for this same problem once.

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    Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    The bigger problem was that Gee predicted they'd have 40k students and had to do a massive building plan to accommodate that total. Which they financed with borrowed money and obviously failed to meet the targets.

    What gave them that idea? That's a huge increase in attendance in fucking West Virginia.

    He's a fraud and a con artist and always has been?

    You can’t just say this about the guy that writes bow-tie stipends ($64k a year) into his compensation packages

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    The bigger problem was that Gee predicted they'd have 40k students and had to do a massive building plan to accommodate that total. Which they financed with borrowed money and obviously failed to meet the targets.

    What gave them that idea? That's a huge increase in attendance in fucking West Virginia.

    He's a fraud and a con artist and always has been?

    You can’t just say this about the guy that writes bow-tie stipends ($64k a year) into his compensation packages

    Ok, so the university is being taken to the cleaners then. Gotcha.

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    Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    West Virginia seems like they are a place where the majority of the population is actively hostile towards anybody who could or would actually help them recover from the economic deathspiral they seem to be in, and I'm not really sure what you're supposed to do about that.

    It's a problem that a lot of rural areas are facing - there's just no economic rationale for a lot of these resource extraction towns anymore. There are some that could shift to other industries like tourism, but a lot of them just...aren't viable anymore, and that's a bitter pill to swallow.

    And it's an unfortunate relic of human history that many of these people are of traditional mindset, meaning that because the family line has been there for a few generations that they obviously own the place forever and ever and will only move over their dead bodies.

    An attitude heavily countered by decent education and world experience, both of which have all but disappeared from these places.

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    Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    The bigger problem was that Gee predicted they'd have 40k students and had to do a massive building plan to accommodate that total. Which they financed with borrowed money and obviously failed to meet the targets.

    What gave them that idea? That's a huge increase in attendance in fucking West Virginia.

    He's a fraud and a con artist and always has been?

    You can’t just say this about the guy that writes bow-tie stipends ($64k a year) into his compensation packages

    Ok, so the university is being taken to the cleaners then. Gotcha.

    To be fair to WVU, he’s also fleeced Colorado, Vanderbilt, and Ohio State (twice….though this is also his second time at WVU)

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    SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    Hedgethorn wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    WVU School of Mathematical and Data Sciences
    📢 Sad News: WVU recommends ending Math graduate programs (MS & PhD). This means that there will potentially be no PhD math program in WV. A puzzling move for a land-grant institution! #MathMatters #WVU #EducationMatters
    Just going to murder that university due to incompetence

    The demographic cliff (a large drop in birthrates starting in 2008, especially among whites) is going to result in many more stories like this in higher ed in the next five years. There just aren't enough domestic students going forward for the number of colleges and universities, particularly in the northeast and the midwest, and that's exacerbated in red states where the culture war and the economy are leading to fewer men going to college at all. WVU is a canary in a coal mine, not a huge outlier. Every place that isn't an Ivy or a top 20 state university is going to be seeing cuts and program eliminations like this.

    WVU had 23k undergrads ten years ago, 21k five years ago, and 19k last year. And their first year class last year was smaller still. I wouldn't be surprised to see them below 18k when they have to publicize enrollment numbers in a few months. I hate to see program closures, but you can't pretend it's business as normal when enrollment drops 25% in ten years. The era of every university offering every program under the sun is over, even if not everyone realizes that yet.

    When did this bubble start? I remember hearing about how impacted all the state schools were here (in california), with a minor scandal about how they were denying in-state students for the more lucrative out of state and international students who paid higher rates.

    steam_sig.png
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    DiannaoChongDiannaoChong Registered User regular
    West Virginia seems like they are a place where the majority of the population is actively hostile towards anybody who could or would actually help them recover from the economic deathspiral they seem to be in, and I'm not really sure what you're supposed to do about that.

    It's a problem that a lot of rural areas are facing - there's just no economic rationale for a lot of these resource extraction towns anymore. There are some that could shift to other industries like tourism, but a lot of them just...aren't viable anymore, and that's a bitter pill to swallow.

    And it's an unfortunate relic of human history that many of these people are of traditional mindset, meaning that because the family line has been there for a few generations that they obviously own the place forever and ever and will only move over their dead bodies.

    An attitude heavily countered by decent education and world experience, both of which have all but disappeared from these places.

    Ok, but is it that, or that they own that house for generations, and its a house and home and perfectly fine, but noone is going to buy a house in a dying area and its price isnt going to get you a home somewhere else?

    steam_sig.png
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    SoggybiscuitSoggybiscuit Tandem Electrostatic Accelerator Registered User regular
    West Virginia seems like they are a place where the majority of the population is actively hostile towards anybody who could or would actually help them recover from the economic deathspiral they seem to be in, and I'm not really sure what you're supposed to do about that.

    It's a problem that a lot of rural areas are facing - there's just no economic rationale for a lot of these resource extraction towns anymore. There are some that could shift to other industries like tourism, but a lot of them just...aren't viable anymore, and that's a bitter pill to swallow.

    And it's an unfortunate relic of human history that many of these people are of traditional mindset, meaning that because the family line has been there for a few generations that they obviously own the place forever and ever and will only move over their dead bodies.

    An attitude heavily countered by decent education and world experience, both of which have all but disappeared from these places.

    Ok, but is it that, or that they own that house for generations, and its a house and home and perfectly fine, but noone is going to buy a house in a dying area and its price isnt going to get you a home somewhere else?

    It’s both, confusingly.

    My MiL’s house is pretty nice for its age and amenities, but it’s in the middle of nowhere in WV. She could maybe get $150 for it if she got extremely lucky. It’s around 1.5 acres and ~3000 sq ft with a basement and detached garage/workshop.

    In the right metro area? That house land would be worth at least $1.5 million.

    Steam - Synthetic Violence | XBOX Live - Cannonfuse | PSN - CastleBravo | Twitch - SoggybiscuitPA
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    HedgethornHedgethorn Associate Professor of Historical Hobby Horses In the Lions' DenRegistered User regular
    Spoit wrote: »
    Hedgethorn wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    WVU School of Mathematical and Data Sciences
    📢 Sad News: WVU recommends ending Math graduate programs (MS & PhD). This means that there will potentially be no PhD math program in WV. A puzzling move for a land-grant institution! #MathMatters #WVU #EducationMatters
    Just going to murder that university due to incompetence

    The demographic cliff (a large drop in birthrates starting in 2008, especially among whites) is going to result in many more stories like this in higher ed in the next five years. There just aren't enough domestic students going forward for the number of colleges and universities, particularly in the northeast and the midwest, and that's exacerbated in red states where the culture war and the economy are leading to fewer men going to college at all. WVU is a canary in a coal mine, not a huge outlier. Every place that isn't an Ivy or a top 20 state university is going to be seeing cuts and program eliminations like this.

    WVU had 23k undergrads ten years ago, 21k five years ago, and 19k last year. And their first year class last year was smaller still. I wouldn't be surprised to see them below 18k when they have to publicize enrollment numbers in a few months. I hate to see program closures, but you can't pretend it's business as normal when enrollment drops 25% in ten years. The era of every university offering every program under the sun is over, even if not everyone realizes that yet.

    When did this bubble start? I remember hearing about how impacted all the state schools were here (in california), with a minor scandal about how they were denying in-state students for the more lucrative out of state and international students who paid higher rates.

    The peak in undergraduate college enrollment was in 2011, with about 18 million undergrads nationwide. That's down to about 15 million today -- and that's actually *before* the big fall off in high school graduates begins to arrive in 2026. International student enrollment peaked in 2017, I think, and then fell some because of Trump-era immigration policies and then fell some more because of the pandemic. It's recovered some in the last year, but is still down 10% or so from where it was five years ago.

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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Hedgethorn wrote: »
    Spoit wrote: »
    Hedgethorn wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    WVU School of Mathematical and Data Sciences
    📢 Sad News: WVU recommends ending Math graduate programs (MS & PhD). This means that there will potentially be no PhD math program in WV. A puzzling move for a land-grant institution! #MathMatters #WVU #EducationMatters
    Just going to murder that university due to incompetence

    The demographic cliff (a large drop in birthrates starting in 2008, especially among whites) is going to result in many more stories like this in higher ed in the next five years. There just aren't enough domestic students going forward for the number of colleges and universities, particularly in the northeast and the midwest, and that's exacerbated in red states where the culture war and the economy are leading to fewer men going to college at all. WVU is a canary in a coal mine, not a huge outlier. Every place that isn't an Ivy or a top 20 state university is going to be seeing cuts and program eliminations like this.

    WVU had 23k undergrads ten years ago, 21k five years ago, and 19k last year. And their first year class last year was smaller still. I wouldn't be surprised to see them below 18k when they have to publicize enrollment numbers in a few months. I hate to see program closures, but you can't pretend it's business as normal when enrollment drops 25% in ten years. The era of every university offering every program under the sun is over, even if not everyone realizes that yet.

    When did this bubble start? I remember hearing about how impacted all the state schools were here (in california), with a minor scandal about how they were denying in-state students for the more lucrative out of state and international students who paid higher rates.

    The peak in undergraduate college enrollment was in 2011, with about 18 million undergrads nationwide. That's down to about 15 million today -- and that's actually *before* the big fall off in high school graduates begins to arrive in 2026. International student enrollment peaked in 2017, I think, and then fell some because of Trump-era immigration policies and then fell some more because of the pandemic. It's recovered some in the last year, but is still down 10% or so from where it was five years ago.

    Basically, the Echo Boom (that is, the children of Boomers) is pretty much past college age at this point, and they're having fewer kids, so there's no second echo on the horizon.

    In other news, it appears that UCSB is backing off plans for the Kowloon Walled Dormitory:
    The University of California, Santa Barbara (UCSB) is accepting applications for a Request for Qualifications (RFQ) – a screening process to find suitable candidates – for the design of its UCSB Student Housing Infill and Redevelopment Project.

    This would deliver "at least" 3,500 beds for undergraduate students to the UCSB campus, 3,000 of which would be located in new residential community housing.

    The remaining 500 beds would be part of an East Campus Infill and Redevelopment effort that would "add additional beds within an existing community of UCSB residence hall," the university said.

    According to the RFQ, which was signed by campus architect Julie Hendricks, the projected construction budget for phases 1 and 2 of the student housing project is $600 million to $750 million.

    This dorm was just crazy - designed by a man whose only qualification was "has money", it was basically a warehouse for students, with the majority of rooms having no access to outside lighting or ventilation.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
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    CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    In other news, it appears that UCSB is backing off plans for the Kowloon Walled Dormitory:
    The University of California, Santa Barbara (UCSB) is accepting applications for a Request for Qualifications (RFQ) – a screening process to find suitable candidates – for the design of its UCSB Student Housing Infill and Redevelopment Project.

    This would deliver "at least" 3,500 beds for undergraduate students to the UCSB campus, 3,000 of which would be located in new residential community housing.

    The remaining 500 beds would be part of an East Campus Infill and Redevelopment effort that would "add additional beds within an existing community of UCSB residence hall," the university said.

    According to the RFQ, which was signed by campus architect Julie Hendricks, the projected construction budget for phases 1 and 2 of the student housing project is $600 million to $750 million.

    This dorm was just crazy - designed by a man whose only qualification was "has money", it was basically a warehouse for students, with the majority of rooms having no access to outside lighting or ventilation.

    Good. It's an embarrassment that that thing ever got past the elevator pitch.

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    Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Did it even have elevators

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    zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    That building is a shockingly bad design. It looks like something you would copy-paste in Dwarf Fortress when you don't want to bother doing anything nice for your dwarves.

    Really, I can't believe that building could pass fire codes. I didn't look too closely at the plans, but it seems like the design must fail some simple emergency egress requirements.

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    CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    zagdrob wrote: »
    That building is a shockingly bad design. It looks like something you would copy-paste in Dwarf Fortress when you don't want to bother doing anything nice for your dwarves.

    Really, I can't believe that building could pass fire codes. I didn't look too closely at the plans, but it seems like the design must fail some simple emergency egress requirements.

    That was part of the "controversy," yes.

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