@Ah_Pook have you suggestions for more helmet gimmicky? I'm working on a remix of the level and i'd love to do more with the concept than just thwomp bouncing and bomb bouncing
There's also muncher bouncing, with which you can bounce anything that will stack with a muncher.
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IceBurnerIt's cold and there are penguins.Registered Userregular
edited August 2019
I'm still building, just haven't been satisfied with anything for a while. It feels pretty difficult to develop my course-building skills beyond what they have been.
I've gotten furthest with a new version of my least-popular and least-completed notebook course, The Factory. That said, it's still not what I'd like it to be.
As far as DLC, beyond the obvious SMB2 course style, I'd love it if we got Rotodiscs and Boomerang Bros as some cheap extras with something more substantial, like placeable water, quicksand, or waterfalls.
WACriminalDying Is Easy, Young ManLiving Is HarderRegistered Userregular
The one problem with placeable water -- and in my opinion, it's not a big enough problem to warrant not implementing it -- is that if you put water inside a breakable brick container and then the bricks get broken...what happens to the water? Flowing, limited-volume water isn't really something that's been in any 2D Mario that I can recall.
The easiest solution would be to implement water in a similar way to slopes. That is, in the same way slopes are currently required to end with a flat spot on each end, you could require water to be placed with a 3-sided bounding box of solid ground.
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
Water would just be like semi solids in that it is the background. Just you interact with it as water. Blocks on it wouldn’t matter because the water would be behind them.
This was a pretty unique challenge in the lot. Well-crafted, and I felt much more proficient at bouncing by the end. Still, it came off a bit one-note. A dash of spice would have gone a long way.
Never have I had a love/hate relationship so strongly with a course. This one was hilarious and weirdly poignant, chock full of excellent ideas that built on its clever theme. However, the very last bit was very tricky and easy to die on, which meant you'd have to keep repeating a pretty obnoxious sequence to get back to it and try again. Put your hardest bits right after checkpoints!
This course was absolutely full of great ideas and variations on a theme, each well executed. Unfortunately I only got to see about half of them. This course was brutal - it was actually too many ideas stretched for too long given the difficulty. Each segment required high precision, which meant some pretty frustrating repeating. I gave up on the thwomp section because redoing the plant bit over and over to try to figure it out was not an enjoyable experience.
I enjoy vertical courses immensely, and this one had some pleasant and fun platforming. However, it felt very light on ideas as ultimately the player is faced with the same basic challenge for the majority of the course. The coin collection requirement was superfluous since you barely had to go out of your way. The end bit was very tricky as Super Mario, too; definitely take a hit before trying to complete this one.
This was a good, easy Super Mario Brothers 3 course with solid fundamentals. It felt like it could have been an official World 1 course, and in that it nailed the challenge parameters. It did feel a bit short and simple, though. It's good to be left wanting more, but I was left just a bit too hungry.
This was the second coin collector in the set. It was full of fun challenges with a lot to like. There were many ways to win, which is a big plus for me. Unfortunately, there were also many ways to get stuck; I managed at least 4 or 5 of them, where I had to end poor Mario's life, unable to continue on the quest for more coins. Ultimately I was able to complete it, though, which was gratifying.
A third coin collector, this one felt very focused on exploration with good platforming and secrets aplenty. A number of the coins were very tricky to get, but you only needed a few side coins to complete the course, which felt right. Some of the visual elements were stunning.
This course had a great, high-speed, thematic start. Have I mentioned I'm a fan of Alphagaia courses? This one did kind of turn into a messy grind after the first run, though. The central thwomp steals the first Hammer on its return, which required awkward pausing and despawning to collect it. The last ant on the right edge was fiendish to get to and hammer down; it was easy to die here, which meant a full restart. The boss didn't help matters either, as a misstep could land you under a giant thwomp for an instant kill. These felt really punishing in a completion conditions course since they don't permit checkpoints. I gave up after one too many very late deaths.
This was a delightful vertical course with a number of fun and varied elements. One thing - the spikes at the beginning bit were just off-screen, leading to death on the first blind jump. It's a mistake you only make once, but it felt a bit unfair. Nothing else in the course did, though. There were also a number of attractive visuals scattered about. Well done.
Fourth coin collector course! This was a popular idea for this set, and this course had an interesting take on it, with capturing a flying koopa at the end and using its shell to find hidden coins everywhere. The coins were quite fun to find, too. Going back and forth with the koopa got repetitive, though, and 400 seconds felt too short. I managed the coins but ran out of time trying to get back to the goal.
This course was like 7 original Super Mario Bros courses packed into one, yet it somehow still felt congruent with a solid flow. The halfway pipe probably could have been up against a scroll-blocking wall or something, as it felt awkward sitting next to a giant pit. Still, this was a wonderful tribute to a classic that riffed without being a direct rip-off. Superb crafting.
An amusing homage to an infamous game. I greatly appreciated the reset options, especially the structure of the optional bonus section at the end. That made this experience much better than the original. Obviously it was one-note, but hey, that's the point, and it still somehow managed to evolve in ways. Really, this was far better than it had any right to be.
You all made this quite difficult! In the end, I settled on these as my top two courses.
Runner-Up:
Unfortunate Son by @WACriminal
This stayed funny and just so real all the way through, which took a lot of the sting out of the grind of a challenge. I've never loved hating a course so much as this. It provoked a number of emotional reactions from me, and I'm quite sure none of that was by accident. Superb work, truly.
And the winner is:
Mirthful Meadows by @Kai_San !!
This course was just top-notch, no question about it. I didn't even manage to find every secret and I still utterly adored it. Every new screen was a visual delight, all the way to the house at the end, and every nook and cranny was fun and exciting to explore. The attention to detail was extraordinary, as though every individual block was carefully considered and placed exactly where it most needed to be. And that tree! I am in awe of your Maker chops, klineshrike. A well-deserved victory!
Triptycho: A card-and-dice tabletop indie RPG currently in development and playtesting
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WACriminalDying Is Easy, Young ManLiving Is HarderRegistered Userregular
Yes! This:
It provoked a number of emotional reactions from me
...is exactly what I was trying for, and I'm much more thrilled that it worked in that regard than I am disappointed at not winning. Thanks, Sauce.
@The Sauce If you're up for describing where/how you got stuck, i'd love to know! I tried to avoid those, but the problem with designing courses yourself is you of course know how they're meant to be done. Though also i did want there to be some level of failure-state where screwing up cost you the run. Hard to balance.
The remix verso i'm working on is going to more regularly have Dispensers that give out shelmets and boneboats so you can keep mario equipped AT ALL TIMES.
Thx for the praise about liking my levels and why you thought this one had some problems!
The Thwomp is meant to take the powerup with him, so you have to use the tubes one last time to get past him. That way you can kill the ant that rode with him (so you don't have to kill it on that ledge on the right, which is much tougher).
I think I'll make the space between the Thwomps during the boss section a bit wider, so people have more time to react when the big Bugs try to push you under the Thwomps.
It's really helpful to have people playtest your levels to see if they do something one did not expect!
I will address the problems though! Now that I can use Gizmo's I think I can make the intended path more clear and people can't use cheats like despawning. ;-)
Shoot m to BITS (hold Y) [hard] C109-0000-014D-4E09 P-POWER Switch Palace 3838-0000-0122-9359 Raiding the Serpents Tomb 1A04-0000-0098-C11E I like to move it, move it FCE2-0000-00D7-9048
The one problem with placeable water -- and in my opinion, it's not a big enough problem to warrant not implementing it -- is that if you put water inside a breakable brick container and then the bricks get broken...what happens to the water? Flowing, limited-volume water isn't really something that's been in any 2D Mario that I can recall.
The easiest solution would be to implement water in a similar way to slopes. That is, in the same way slopes are currently required to end with a flat spot on each end, you could require water to be placed with a 3-sided bounding box of solid ground.
I think place-able water would be handled the same way as ground tiles. If you put a ground tile in mid air it does not fall, it remains fixed in that spot. A water tile would behave the same, and you could do fun things like mid-air pools that can be entered from any direction, water or lava on the ceiling, etc.
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
Mirthful Meadows by @Kai_San !!
This course was just top-notch, no question about it. I didn't even manage to find every secret and I still utterly adored it. Every new screen was a visual delight, all the way to the house at the end, and every nook and cranny was fun and exciting to explore. The attention to detail was extraordinary, as though every individual block was carefully considered and placed exactly where it most needed to be. And that tree! I am in awe of your Maker chops, klineshrike. A well-deserved victory!
Wow that is some glowing feedback! I respect your level design prowess @The Sauce so hearing that from you means a lot. This also inspires me to make the rest of the levels I wanted to do as a series.
Also, thanks to @The Zombie Penguin for the advice to retune the jumps. I did play your level but never had any issues that were not imposed by myself. I spent a ton of time on the beginning trying to both do the top path and get the lava coins only to realize when I finally moved on I was way over the requirement anyway. Once I got past the thwomps falling in lava due to a few dumb mistakes I cruised through the rest, so I didn't see anything to nitpick. I would have gladly offered advice if I had any issues.
I am still trying to decide on the next theme but I want to get it out not too late today and stick with this schedule.
Also it is great to see how much turnout there was this week. I hope this keeps going for a little while as these are fun and the best motivation for making levels.
Mirthful Meadows by @Kai_San !!
This course was just top-notch, no question about it. I didn't even manage to find every secret and I still utterly adored it. Every new screen was a visual delight, all the way to the house at the end, and every nook and cranny was fun and exciting to explore. The attention to detail was extraordinary, as though every individual block was carefully considered and placed exactly where it most needed to be. And that tree! I am in awe of your Maker chops, klineshrike. A well-deserved victory!
Wow that is some glowing feedback! I respect your level design prowess @The Sauce so hearing that from you means a lot. This also inspires me to make the rest of the levels I wanted to do as a series.
Also, thanks to @The Zombie Penguin for the advice to retune the jumps. I did play your level but never had any issues that were not imposed by myself. I spent a ton of time on the beginning trying to both do the top path and get the lava coins only to realize when I finally moved on I was way over the requirement anyway. Once I got past the thwomps falling in lava due to a few dumb mistakes I cruised through the rest, so I didn't see anything to nitpick. I would have gladly offered advice if I had any issues.
I am still trying to decide on the next theme but I want to get it out not too late today and stick with this schedule.
Also it is great to see how much turnout there was this week. I hope this keeps going for a little while as these are fun and the best motivation for making levels.
You're very welcome! I still can't figure it how the hell you do that very last jump to get in the top of the ending/the last pipe, but I figured out the rest. That retuning made it a real pleasure of a level.
A very well earned victory, dood!
Haha, yeah there's 400 odd coins in the level. I felt that requiring the player get all of them was maybe a bit much? The remix version is coming along nicely - being able to use gadgets is giving me a bit not design space.
The Sauce If you're up for describing where/how you got stuck, i'd love to know! I tried to avoid those, but the problem with designing courses yourself is you of course know how they're meant to be done. Though also i did want there to be some level of failure-state where screwing up cost you the run. Hard to balance.
The remix verso i'm working on is going to more regularly have Dispensers that give out shelmets and boneboats so you can keep mario equipped AT ALL TIMES.
Dispensers would take care of it. I got stuck in basically every possible way that you can lose a power-up - accidentally booting it into the lava, getting it knocked off by a dumb mistake with a thwomp or bob-omb, leaving the boneboat behind with a double-jump and despawning it, etc. I'm excited to try your remix!
Mirthful Meadows by Kai_San !!
This course was just top-notch, no question about it. I didn't even manage to find every secret and I still utterly adored it. Every new screen was a visual delight, all the way to the house at the end, and every nook and cranny was fun and exciting to explore. The attention to detail was extraordinary, as though every individual block was carefully considered and placed exactly where it most needed to be. And that tree! I am in awe of your Maker chops, klineshrike. A well-deserved victory!
Wow that is some glowing feedback! I respect your level design prowess The Sauce so hearing that from you means a lot. This also inspires me to make the rest of the levels I wanted to do as a series.
Also, thanks to The Zombie Penguin for the advice to retune the jumps. I did play your level but never had any issues that were not imposed by myself. I spent a ton of time on the beginning trying to both do the top path and get the lava coins only to realize when I finally moved on I was way over the requirement anyway. Once I got past the thwomps falling in lava due to a few dumb mistakes I cruised through the rest, so I didn't see anything to nitpick. I would have gladly offered advice if I had any issues.
I am still trying to decide on the next theme but I want to get it out not too late today and stick with this schedule.
Also it is great to see how much turnout there was this week. I hope this keeps going for a little while as these are fun and the best motivation for making levels.
Hah, and I even forgot to post some of the stuff I really liked. For instance, the secret invisible blocks were placed in pretty much exactly the right places. You find them largely by accident but somehow feel smart for having gotten them. That degree of tuning usually requires watching various people playtest your course, which as we all know is absurdly difficult to do with Mario Maker. If you did it without that, it's a sign of some really excellent design instincts.
Triptycho: A card-and-dice tabletop indie RPG currently in development and playtesting
It provoked a number of emotional reactions from me
...is exactly what I was trying for, and I'm much more thrilled that it worked in that regard than I am disappointed at not winning. Thanks, Sauce.
Something else that occurred to me literally today that I wanted to mention -
I really liked the double meaning behind the "fortunate" path's design. It was absolutely full of Gizmos, the unavailable element. You managed not only life commentary but also meta-commentary on the challenge itself. I have no idea if that was intentional, but it was magnificent.
Triptycho: A card-and-dice tabletop indie RPG currently in development and playtesting
The Sauce If you're up for describing where/how you got stuck, i'd love to know! I tried to avoid those, but the problem with designing courses yourself is you of course know how they're meant to be done. Though also i did want there to be some level of failure-state where screwing up cost you the run. Hard to balance.
The remix verso i'm working on is going to more regularly have Dispensers that give out shelmets and boneboats so you can keep mario equipped AT ALL TIMES.
Dispensers would take care of it. I got stuck in basically every possible way that you can lose a power-up - accidentally booting it into the lava, getting it knocked off by a dumb mistake with a thwomp or bob-omb, leaving the boneboat behind with a double-jump and despawning it, etc. I'm excited to try your remix!
That's one bit that frustrates me - The priority for loosing power ups goes Boneboat, Shelmet, Big Mushroom. Which means in Lava/Thwomp sections, if the slightly funky hitboxes clip you the wrong way? You just instantly die.
But Lava Thwmop sections are one of the best ways to create consequences to not bouncing Thwomps that i've found so far (Or to encouraging going slow so that the thwomps are destroyed)
The one problem with placeable water -- and in my opinion, it's not a big enough problem to warrant not implementing it -- is that if you put water inside a breakable brick container and then the bricks get broken...what happens to the water? Flowing, limited-volume water isn't really something that's been in any 2D Mario that I can recall.
The easiest solution would be to implement water in a similar way to slopes. That is, in the same way slopes are currently required to end with a flat spot on each end, you could require water to be placed with a 3-sided bounding box of solid ground.
I think place-able water would be handled the same way as ground tiles. If you put a ground tile in mid air it does not fall, it remains fixed in that spot. A water tile would behave the same, and you could do fun things like mid-air pools that can be entered from any direction, water or lava on the ceiling, etc.
Bear in mind NSMB provides the physics for all Mario Maker course themes but 3D World: NSMB Wii course 7-2 already did inexplicable floating water pockets, so they have literally already coded for this. The main difference is the water areas are various ovoid shapes, rather than rectangular.
It provoked a number of emotional reactions from me
...is exactly what I was trying for, and I'm much more thrilled that it worked in that regard than I am disappointed at not winning. Thanks, Sauce.
Something else that occurred to me literally today that I wanted to mention -
I really liked the double meaning behind the "fortunate" path's design. It was absolutely full of Gizmos, the unavailable element. You managed not only life commentary but also meta-commentary on the challenge itself. I have no idea if that was intentional, but it was magnificent.
It was intentional. I originally had the level titled "Doing Things The Hard Way" while I was designing it, trying to figure out as many obstacles as I could that were frustratingly difficult, but would have been rendered entirely simple by the presence of the right gizmo.
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
edited August 2019
Ok I think I decided on what I want to do. My other idea might be too difficult to implement well, so lets go with something pretty relaxing.
The Mario Maker 2 Challenge Bash #6
Stay Awhile and Listen
Make a level that tells a story. It doesn't have to literally tell it, but have some kind of series of events or purpose to what is happening in mind. It can be told however you want. Imply it subtly, or outright use words. Just try to involve a level as well and not just story.
My inspiration for the idea was a level called Robbing Boo's Bank which I saw in a Game Grumps vid (not to cross the streams, but that's the only play I saw of it).
The vid for reference if interested
Level Style: Any
Level Theme: Any
Nighttime option: Yes
Duration: Aug 20th - End of day Aug 25th (EST)
Winner Decision: Aug 26th (Which is my birthday, look at that)
Have at it. I will try to play submissions as I see them, so if you need to reupload just post about it. I check the thread pretty regularly so I shouldn't miss it but an @ is perfectly fine as well.
Kai_San on
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
Also if someone could set up the format of the page on the spreadsheet, looks like it gives me issues on this computer I am using on my break at work
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WACriminalDying Is Easy, Young ManLiving Is HarderRegistered Userregular
Also if someone could set up the format of the page on the spreadsheet, looks like it gives me issues on this computer I am using on my break at work
I can't do it right now, but you should be able to simply right-click the previous sheet and select "Duplicate", then delete the duplicate's entries and rename it.
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
I’ll get it when I get home if no one else gets a chance. It’s a MAC here and all I know it was asking to install an extension or something
@The Sauce You were excited about a remix, i do believe!
Q1f-3YS-Y2G
This is bigger and better than the first one. A few gadgets are used to give a bit of spice, and there's a bit more emphasis on helmet-based bouncing. Lots of emphasis on discovery and exploring - See if you can find the hidden areas! (There's 4 of them). Lots more need to explore for coins in this, though you can easily finish with some mix of back-tracking or secret finding. Should be much harder to get stuck, though it's still possible to get Thwomped. But hey, what's a course without a bit of hazardouness to it.
Bloopers are feeling underappreciated so they've decided to put on a show. For a limited time only tickets will only cost 5 pink coins! Get in quick because tickets are selling out fast!
The one problem with placeable water -- and in my opinion, it's not a big enough problem to warrant not implementing it -- is that if you put water inside a breakable brick container and then the bricks get broken...what happens to the water? Flowing, limited-volume water isn't really something that's been in any 2D Mario that I can recall.
The easiest solution would be to implement water in a similar way to slopes. That is, in the same way slopes are currently required to end with a flat spot on each end, you could require water to be placed with a 3-sided bounding box of solid ground.
I think place-able water would be handled the same way as ground tiles. If you put a ground tile in mid air it does not fall, it remains fixed in that spot. A water tile would behave the same, and you could do fun things like mid-air pools that can be entered from any direction, water or lava on the ceiling, etc.
That's certainly how water behaved in Super Mario 3D World's Champion Road, so I don't see an issue with it even if it looks weird. It's not without precedent.
Bowser will huff and puff and blow Mario’s house down!
I took the fairy tale of the three pigs and Mario’d it up as much as I could. Seek refuge from Bowser in a house made of vines, wood and hard blocks. But be careful, because he will do his best to knock each one down! You will have to take him out yourself to get rid of him
Donkey KongPutting Nintendo out of business with AI nipsRegistered Userregular
I have an entry for this week's contest!
Challenge #6 - Narrative Course
Boom Boom's Side Gig
Boom Boom has been shirking his duties as castle boss. But what for?
Course ID: 23R-5F4-QDF
This one is a little harder than what I've been targeting lately, but I think it's fair.
Don't forget about the dry bones shell crumble ability and that spin jumps pop goombas in SMW. The level is completable without either technique but it'll be less frustrating if you keep these in mind.
Thousands of hot, local singles are waiting to play at bubbulon.com.
So, have people given my Crashelm Castle Caverns Remix a go? It's only got two successful clears so far which is uh... really rather low
I'm wondering if i missed something important
Yeah. I thought it was much improved!
I was 2 coins short, backtracked quite a bit, and died rather than finding any further coins. Not sure if that's the common reason for the low completion or just my experience.
Triptycho: A card-and-dice tabletop indie RPG currently in development and playtesting
So, have people given my Crashelm Castle Caverns Remix a go? It's only got two successful clears so far which is uh... really rather low
I'm wondering if i missed something important
Yeah. I thought it was much improved!
I was 2 coins short, backtracked quite a bit, and died rather than finding any further coins. Not sure if that's the common reason for the low completion or just my experience.
Hmm. I'm guessing people are not finding the secrets then. The intended some of them to was you should find some of them, but they shouldn't be THAT hard to find... (though aheh, it's easy to say that as the creator)
Spoilers on em below. @The Sauce did you locate any of these?
Starting from the beginning:
Secrets 1 & 2:
The very first dispenser can be entered and has a big coin. You can also use a shell-double jump to reach it's roof, which leads to another set of coins
Secret 3: The Gold Pipe in the top conveyor belt area can be entered, and has another big coin
Secret 4: The top Dispeners right after this can be entered, and has a big coin.
Secret 6: The Big Blue Bobobom dispensers that opens up access to the coins ontop of the Green Pipes can be entered. Green pipe coins miiiiight count as secret 7, i guess, but they are visible when you're first triggering the big bobombs, though only just.
Secret 7: The rooftop of the final dispenser has a set of coins - Requires a shell jump from either the second highest platform on the right closest to the dispenser, or from one of the platforms on the far side.
Secret 8: You can travel across the lava at it's lowest point and go under the dispenser platform. Doing so will net you a 30 coin. This one is SUPER hard to find, and was not intend to factor into completion - the only hint is the pair of coins on either side. the hope was these were enough of an oddity to get a player to investigate - though even successfully nabbing it is hard to notice
Secret 9: Atop the crushers. You can access this section with a shell jump, either from the highest middle platform on the way, or via a shell jump past the axe.
I'm guessing the Dispensers probably fouled people up - There's not exactly rhyme nor reason to which ones are accessible, and i think i should have committed to making them all accessible, and all other pipes accessible, except for horizontal ones.
So, have people given my Crashelm Castle Caverns Remix a go? It's only got two successful clears so far which is uh... really rather low
I'm wondering if i missed something important
Yeah. I thought it was much improved!
I was 2 coins short, backtracked quite a bit, and died rather than finding any further coins. Not sure if that's the common reason for the low completion or just my experience.
Hmm. I'm guessing people are not finding the secrets then. The intended some of them to was you should find some of them, but they shouldn't be THAT hard to find... (though aheh, it's easy to say that as the creator)
Spoilers on em below. @The Sauce did you locate any of these?
Starting from the beginning:
Secrets 1 & 2:
The very first dispenser can be entered and has a big coin. You can also use a shell-double jump to reach it's roof, which leads to another set of coins
Secret 3: The Gold Pipe in the top conveyor belt area can be entered, and has another big coin
Secret 4: The top Dispeners right after this can be entered, and has a big coin.
Secret 6: The Big Blue Bobobom dispensers that opens up access to the coins ontop of the Green Pipes can be entered. Green pipe coins miiiiight count as secret 7, i guess, but they are visible when you're first triggering the big bobombs, though only just.
Secret 7: The rooftop of the final dispenser has a set of coins - Requires a shell jump from either the second highest platform on the right closest to the dispenser, or from one of the platforms on the far side.
Secret 8: You can travel across the lava at it's lowest point and go under the dispenser platform. Doing so will net you a 30 coin. This one is SUPER hard to find, and was not intend to factor into completion - the only hint is the pair of coins on either side. the hope was these were enough of an oddity to get a player to investigate - though even successfully nabbing it is hard to notice
Secret 9: Atop the crushers. You can access this section with a shell jump, either from the highest middle platform on the way, or via a shell jump past the axe.
I'm guessing the Dispensers probably fouled people up - There's not exactly rhyme nor reason to which ones are accessible, and i think i should have committed to making them all accessible, and all other pipes accessible, except for horizontal ones.
There's a lot of cool ideas here but I think the downfall is that it's a slow moving puzzle puzzle level full of instant-deaths. Any wrong move over lava can erase several minutes of progress. There are multiple ways to do things like pass under the thwomps and get the coins above them, or boot the giant bombs into the hard blocks. And it's cool to explore and experiment with these toys and find the best way to traverse the level. But it's not fun to experiment with 5 minutes of no-checkpoint progress on the line. After the third or fourth time doing the intro segment, it's not fun anymore and the player is liable to give up.
There are also a few sections that I feel are deadlier than you intended. For example, sloped ceilings leading down into lava. If you run into one while floating in the dry bones shell, it doesn't stop you, it kills you. And poof, three minute run is dead from an uncommon physics interaction.
If you don't know where the secrets are and how many coins they contain, you don't know which overworld risks are not worth taking. Spending a few doomed runs not getting single coins and exploring the map would let the player formulate a fun run to attempt, but that's not a natural play style. Most players will spend a lot of time sitting in a dry bones shell in the main area, waiting for lava to go up or down to slide under ledges and collect a pittance in coins. Then they'll die to something mundane 80% of the way through the coin condition and have to repeat everything.
So in short: cool layout, fun challenges, good setups, but ultimately the reality of dying in a long exploration level makes it hard to finish.
Thousands of hot, local singles are waiting to play at bubbulon.com.
So, have people given my Crashelm Castle Caverns Remix a go? It's only got two successful clears so far which is uh... really rather low
I'm wondering if i missed something important
Yeah. I thought it was much improved!
I was 2 coins short, backtracked quite a bit, and died rather than finding any further coins. Not sure if that's the common reason for the low completion or just my experience.
Hmm. I'm guessing people are not finding the secrets then. The intended some of them to was you should find some of them, but they shouldn't be THAT hard to find... (though aheh, it's easy to say that as the creator)
Spoilers on em below. @The Sauce did you locate any of these?
Starting from the beginning:
Secrets 1 & 2:
The very first dispenser can be entered and has a big coin. You can also use a shell-double jump to reach it's roof, which leads to another set of coins
Secret 3: The Gold Pipe in the top conveyor belt area can be entered, and has another big coin
Secret 4: The top Dispeners right after this can be entered, and has a big coin.
Secret 6: The Big Blue Bobobom dispensers that opens up access to the coins ontop of the Green Pipes can be entered. Green pipe coins miiiiight count as secret 7, i guess, but they are visible when you're first triggering the big bobombs, though only just.
Secret 7: The rooftop of the final dispenser has a set of coins - Requires a shell jump from either the second highest platform on the right closest to the dispenser, or from one of the platforms on the far side.
Secret 8: You can travel across the lava at it's lowest point and go under the dispenser platform. Doing so will net you a 30 coin. This one is SUPER hard to find, and was not intend to factor into completion - the only hint is the pair of coins on either side. the hope was these were enough of an oddity to get a player to investigate - though even successfully nabbing it is hard to notice
Secret 9: Atop the crushers. You can access this section with a shell jump, either from the highest middle platform on the way, or via a shell jump past the axe.
I'm guessing the Dispensers probably fouled people up - There's not exactly rhyme nor reason to which ones are accessible, and i think i should have committed to making them all accessible, and all other pipes accessible, except for horizontal ones.
There's a lot of cool ideas here but I think the downfall is that it's a slow moving puzzle puzzle level full of instant-deaths. Any wrong move over lava can erase several minutes of progress. There are multiple ways to do things like pass under the thwomps and get the coins above them, or boot the giant bombs into the hard blocks. And it's cool to explore and experiment with these toys and find the best way to traverse the level. But it's not fun to experiment with 5 minutes of no-checkpoint progress on the line. After the third or fourth time doing the intro segment, it's not fun anymore and the player is liable to give up.
There are also a few sections that I feel are deadlier than you intended. For example, sloped ceilings leading down into lava. If you run into one while floating in the dry bones shell, it doesn't stop you, it kills you. And poof, three minute run is dead from an uncommon physics interaction.
If you don't know where the secrets are and how many coins they contain, you don't know which overworld risks are not worth taking. Spending a few doomed runs not getting single coins and exploring the map would let the player formulate a fun run to attempt, but that's not a natural play style. Most players will spend a lot of time sitting in a dry bones shell in the main area, waiting for lava to go up or down to slide under ledges and collect a pittance in coins. Then they'll die to something mundane 80% of the way through the coin condition and have to repeat everything.
So in short: cool layout, fun challenges, good setups, but ultimately the reality of dying in a long exploration level makes it hard to finish.
Right, that makes sense. Thank you for the feedback!
Honestly, i'm not sure what i can do to solve that (Short of making the level... shorter. Which would defeat the point/leave less room for fun exploration) stuff. Victim of not being able to check-point Goal-orientated levels, i guess?
The slope/lava interaction is one i only ran across in the last 12 hours so yeah, ooof. Can you point to any other sections that are nastier than you think i meant? One I've noted has eaten a lot of people is the Thwomp/Lava sections - if you go at juuuuust the right speed, Mario's hit box smacks into the Thwomp rather than than the Shellmet hitbox, you loose the dry bone shell, and die instantly. Which is uh, not a great feeling moment. But it's also one of those "So how do i fix this, other than just not use that challange" given it's a result of weird hitbox interactions. Or at least hitboxes that dont act quite how you'd expect them to act.
(Another interesting/werid/that does not work like you'd expect hitbox - If you crouch on a convyeor belt while wearing a shellmet that's covered by a Giant Thwomp, you'll be immune to the Thwomp and push it up.)
Donkey KongPutting Nintendo out of business with AI nipsRegistered Userregular
Mario at not full speed touching the side of the thwomp was another thing that seemed unintentionally hard but I figured out quickly enough that you just need to go full tilt at the lines of thwomps and don't hesitate.
The segment with the giant thwomps breaking hard blocks over lava (so you can slide under and get coins) was not strictly challenging but it's an uncommon setup and unless you've practiced it a bunch, you can die stupidly because, for example, you didn't realize how slowly thwomps sink in lava and you lost momentum. Which would normally be a harmless learning experience but here everything is white knuckle with the 5+ minute clear time on the line.
Yeah I think it's a pretty clear victim of checkpoints being useless in clear condition levels.
Something you could do is split the level into two halves. Put a checkpoint at the halfway point.
At the start of the level, install a mechanism to set On/Offs to Off. So runs starting from start are Off while runs starting from the checkpoint are On.
In the checkpoint area, if On, create a mechanism that blocks access to the first half of the course and awards enough coins to meet the coin condition using only the second half.
You can structure the first half as a platforming challenge plus optional coin collection to make the second half easier if you manage to do it all in one run. But if you die in the second half, that's ok, you don't have to repeat the first half and it's still completable from checkpoint.
I think that's a compromise but a fair one that improves the level concept more than it detracts.
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@Donkey Kong I gotta admit, I'm not quite following your suggestion here. I've also been awake all night (coming up on 17 hours actually...) So this may reject more on my lack of sleep than your explaining
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There's also muncher bouncing, with which you can bounce anything that will stack with a muncher.
I've gotten furthest with a new version of my least-popular and least-completed notebook course, The Factory. That said, it's still not what I'd like it to be.
As far as DLC, beyond the obvious SMB2 course style, I'd love it if we got Rotodiscs and Boomerang Bros as some cheap extras with something more substantial, like placeable water, quicksand, or waterfalls.
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Dragon's Dogma: 192 Warrior Linty | 80 Strider Alicia | 32 Mage Terra
The easiest solution would be to implement water in a similar way to slopes. That is, in the same way slopes are currently required to end with a flat spot on each end, you could require water to be placed with a 3-sided bounding box of solid ground.
Water would just be like semi solids in that it is the background. Just you interact with it as water. Blocks on it wouldn’t matter because the water would be behind them.
The results are in! Before the reveal, here's a summary of what I thought about each of the entries.
Anthill Out Of A Mountain by @Kizmitt
Unfortunate Son by @WACriminal
Donut Panic by @Djiem
Castle in the Sky by @quovadis13
Perfectly Normal by @cravipat
Crashelm Castle Caverns by @The Zombie Penguin
Mirthful Meadows by @Kai_San
Way of the Thwomp 2 by @Alphagaia
Going Up? by @Mr_Grinch
Coin Hunt With Koopa by @agoaj
A Classic Run by @webguy20
Flappy Cape by @Zython
You all made this quite difficult! In the end, I settled on these as my top two courses.
Runner-Up:
This stayed funny and just so real all the way through, which took a lot of the sting out of the grind of a challenge. I've never loved hating a course so much as this. It provoked a number of emotional reactions from me, and I'm quite sure none of that was by accident. Superb work, truly.
And the winner is:
This course was just top-notch, no question about it. I didn't even manage to find every secret and I still utterly adored it. Every new screen was a visual delight, all the way to the house at the end, and every nook and cranny was fun and exciting to explore. The attention to detail was extraordinary, as though every individual block was carefully considered and placed exactly where it most needed to be. And that tree! I am in awe of your Maker chops, klineshrike. A well-deserved victory!
...is exactly what I was trying for, and I'm much more thrilled that it worked in that regard than I am disappointed at not winning. Thanks, Sauce.
I think you made a wise design decision in that it's tough platforming, but you don't die and have to go alllll the way back. You can keep trying.
The remix verso i'm working on is going to more regularly have Dispensers that give out shelmets and boneboats so you can keep mario equipped AT ALL TIMES.
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The Thwomp is meant to take the powerup with him, so you have to use the tubes one last time to get past him. That way you can kill the ant that rode with him (so you don't have to kill it on that ledge on the right, which is much tougher).
I think I'll make the space between the Thwomps during the boss section a bit wider, so people have more time to react when the big Bugs try to push you under the Thwomps.
It's really helpful to have people playtest your levels to see if they do something one did not expect!
I will address the problems though! Now that I can use Gizmo's I think I can make the intended path more clear and people can't use cheats like despawning. ;-)
@The Sauce and everyone else:
I tried and fix the problems. Hope you can finish it this time!
Shoot m to BITS (hold Y) [hard] C109-0000-014D-4E09
P-POWER Switch Palace 3838-0000-0122-9359
Raiding the Serpents Tomb 1A04-0000-0098-C11E
I like to move it, move it FCE2-0000-00D7-9048
See my profile here!
I think place-able water would be handled the same way as ground tiles. If you put a ground tile in mid air it does not fall, it remains fixed in that spot. A water tile would behave the same, and you could do fun things like mid-air pools that can be entered from any direction, water or lava on the ceiling, etc.
Wow that is some glowing feedback! I respect your level design prowess @The Sauce so hearing that from you means a lot. This also inspires me to make the rest of the levels I wanted to do as a series.
Also, thanks to @The Zombie Penguin for the advice to retune the jumps. I did play your level but never had any issues that were not imposed by myself. I spent a ton of time on the beginning trying to both do the top path and get the lava coins only to realize when I finally moved on I was way over the requirement anyway. Once I got past the thwomps falling in lava due to a few dumb mistakes I cruised through the rest, so I didn't see anything to nitpick. I would have gladly offered advice if I had any issues.
I am still trying to decide on the next theme but I want to get it out not too late today and stick with this schedule.
Also it is great to see how much turnout there was this week. I hope this keeps going for a little while as these are fun and the best motivation for making levels.
You're very welcome! I still can't figure it how the hell you do that very last jump to get in the top of the ending/the last pipe, but I figured out the rest. That retuning made it a real pleasure of a level.
A very well earned victory, dood!
Haha, yeah there's 400 odd coins in the level. I felt that requiring the player get all of them was maybe a bit much? The remix version is coming along nicely - being able to use gadgets is giving me a bit not design space.
... As is realizing I never used giant bombs
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Hah, and I even forgot to post some of the stuff I really liked. For instance, the secret invisible blocks were placed in pretty much exactly the right places. You find them largely by accident but somehow feel smart for having gotten them. That degree of tuning usually requires watching various people playtest your course, which as we all know is absurdly difficult to do with Mario Maker. If you did it without that, it's a sign of some really excellent design instincts.
I really liked the double meaning behind the "fortunate" path's design. It was absolutely full of Gizmos, the unavailable element. You managed not only life commentary but also meta-commentary on the challenge itself. I have no idea if that was intentional, but it was magnificent.
That's one bit that frustrates me - The priority for loosing power ups goes Boneboat, Shelmet, Big Mushroom. Which means in Lava/Thwomp sections, if the slightly funky hitboxes clip you the wrong way? You just instantly die.
But Lava Thwmop sections are one of the best ways to create consequences to not bouncing Thwomps that i've found so far (Or to encouraging going slow so that the thwomps are destroyed)
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Bear in mind NSMB provides the physics for all Mario Maker course themes but 3D World: NSMB Wii course 7-2 already did inexplicable floating water pockets, so they have literally already coded for this. The main difference is the water areas are various ovoid shapes, rather than rectangular.
PSN: theIceBurner, IceBurnerEU, IceBurner-JP | X-Link Kai: TheIceBurner
Dragon's Dogma: 192 Warrior Linty | 80 Strider Alicia | 32 Mage Terra
It was intentional. I originally had the level titled "Doing Things The Hard Way" while I was designing it, trying to figure out as many obstacles as I could that were frustratingly difficult, but would have been rendered entirely simple by the presence of the right gizmo.
The Mario Maker 2 Challenge Bash #6
Stay Awhile and Listen
Make a level that tells a story. It doesn't have to literally tell it, but have some kind of series of events or purpose to what is happening in mind. It can be told however you want. Imply it subtly, or outright use words. Just try to involve a level as well and not just story.
My inspiration for the idea was a level called Robbing Boo's Bank which I saw in a Game Grumps vid (not to cross the streams, but that's the only play I saw of it).
The vid for reference if interested
Level Style: Any
Level Theme: Any
Nighttime option: Yes
Duration: Aug 20th - End of day Aug 25th (EST)
Winner Decision: Aug 26th (Which is my birthday, look at that)
Have at it. I will try to play submissions as I see them, so if you need to reupload just post about it. I check the thread pretty regularly so I shouldn't miss it but an @ is perfectly fine as well.
I can't do it right now, but you should be able to simply right-click the previous sheet and select "Duplicate", then delete the duplicate's entries and rename it.
I'm excited to make an entry and even more excited to play everyone else's.
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
Q1f-3YS-Y2G
This is bigger and better than the first one. A few gadgets are used to give a bit of spice, and there's a bit more emphasis on helmet-based bouncing. Lots of emphasis on discovery and exploring - See if you can find the hidden areas! (There's 4 of them). Lots more need to explore for coins in this, though you can easily finish with some mix of back-tracking or secret finding. Should be much harder to get stuck, though it's still possible to get Thwomped. But hey, what's a course without a bit of hazardouness to it.
Bit more of a puzzle-solving emphasis too.
(Also see if you can find the hidden 30 coin )
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846-30M-1PG The Blooper Ballet
Bloopers are feeling underappreciated so they've decided to put on a show. For a limited time only tickets will only cost 5 pink coins! Get in quick because tickets are selling out fast!
That's certainly how water behaved in Super Mario 3D World's Champion Road, so I don't see an issue with it even if it looks weird. It's not without precedent.
Destroy the evil wizard's stronghold! Only...
Course: What Have I Done...?
JB3-F02-72G
Play with comments for the hero's detailed narrative of the story or without for a more abstract and open-ended version.
My emo teen former self would be extremely happy with this tripe
Added it to the spreadsheet anyway
The Three Pigs
4BD-0Q9-MDF
Bowser will huff and puff and blow Mario’s house down!
I took the fairy tale of the three pigs and Mario’d it up as much as I could. Seek refuge from Bowser in a house made of vines, wood and hard blocks. But be careful, because he will do his best to knock each one down! You will have to take him out yourself to get rid of him
@Kai_San
I have 549 Rock Band Drum and 305 Pro Drum FC's
REFS REFS REFS REFS REFS REFS REFS REFS
Challenge #6 - Narrative Course
Boom Boom's Side Gig
Boom Boom has been shirking his duties as castle boss. But what for?
Course ID: 23R-5F4-QDF
This one is a little harder than what I've been targeting lately, but I think it's fair.
Don't forget about the dry bones shell crumble ability and that spin jumps pop goombas in SMW. The level is completable without either technique but it'll be less frustrating if you keep these in mind.
I'm wondering if i missed something important
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I was 2 coins short, backtracked quite a bit, and died rather than finding any further coins. Not sure if that's the common reason for the low completion or just my experience.
Hmm. I'm guessing people are not finding the secrets then. The intended some of them to was you should find some of them, but they shouldn't be THAT hard to find... (though aheh, it's easy to say that as the creator)
Spoilers on em below. @The Sauce did you locate any of these?
Secrets 1 & 2:
The very first dispenser can be entered and has a big coin. You can also use a shell-double jump to reach it's roof, which leads to another set of coins
Secret 3: The Gold Pipe in the top conveyor belt area can be entered, and has another big coin
Secret 4: The top Dispeners right after this can be entered, and has a big coin.
Secret 6: The Big Blue Bobobom dispensers that opens up access to the coins ontop of the Green Pipes can be entered. Green pipe coins miiiiight count as secret 7, i guess, but they are visible when you're first triggering the big bobombs, though only just.
Secret 7: The rooftop of the final dispenser has a set of coins - Requires a shell jump from either the second highest platform on the right closest to the dispenser, or from one of the platforms on the far side.
Secret 8: You can travel across the lava at it's lowest point and go under the dispenser platform. Doing so will net you a 30 coin. This one is SUPER hard to find, and was not intend to factor into completion - the only hint is the pair of coins on either side. the hope was these were enough of an oddity to get a player to investigate - though even successfully nabbing it is hard to notice
Secret 9: Atop the crushers. You can access this section with a shell jump, either from the highest middle platform on the way, or via a shell jump past the axe.
I'm guessing the Dispensers probably fouled people up - There's not exactly rhyme nor reason to which ones are accessible, and i think i should have committed to making them all accessible, and all other pipes accessible, except for horizontal ones.
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Maybe! You should go back and try them out, i think you'd appreciate the detailing i put into them
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There's a lot of cool ideas here but I think the downfall is that it's a slow moving puzzle puzzle level full of instant-deaths. Any wrong move over lava can erase several minutes of progress. There are multiple ways to do things like pass under the thwomps and get the coins above them, or boot the giant bombs into the hard blocks. And it's cool to explore and experiment with these toys and find the best way to traverse the level. But it's not fun to experiment with 5 minutes of no-checkpoint progress on the line. After the third or fourth time doing the intro segment, it's not fun anymore and the player is liable to give up.
There are also a few sections that I feel are deadlier than you intended. For example, sloped ceilings leading down into lava. If you run into one while floating in the dry bones shell, it doesn't stop you, it kills you. And poof, three minute run is dead from an uncommon physics interaction.
If you don't know where the secrets are and how many coins they contain, you don't know which overworld risks are not worth taking. Spending a few doomed runs not getting single coins and exploring the map would let the player formulate a fun run to attempt, but that's not a natural play style. Most players will spend a lot of time sitting in a dry bones shell in the main area, waiting for lava to go up or down to slide under ledges and collect a pittance in coins. Then they'll die to something mundane 80% of the way through the coin condition and have to repeat everything.
So in short: cool layout, fun challenges, good setups, but ultimately the reality of dying in a long exploration level makes it hard to finish.
Right, that makes sense. Thank you for the feedback!
Honestly, i'm not sure what i can do to solve that (Short of making the level... shorter. Which would defeat the point/leave less room for fun exploration) stuff. Victim of not being able to check-point Goal-orientated levels, i guess?
The slope/lava interaction is one i only ran across in the last 12 hours so yeah, ooof. Can you point to any other sections that are nastier than you think i meant? One I've noted has eaten a lot of people is the Thwomp/Lava sections - if you go at juuuuust the right speed, Mario's hit box smacks into the Thwomp rather than than the Shellmet hitbox, you loose the dry bone shell, and die instantly. Which is uh, not a great feeling moment. But it's also one of those "So how do i fix this, other than just not use that challange" given it's a result of weird hitbox interactions. Or at least hitboxes that dont act quite how you'd expect them to act.
(Another interesting/werid/that does not work like you'd expect hitbox - If you crouch on a convyeor belt while wearing a shellmet that's covered by a Giant Thwomp, you'll be immune to the Thwomp and push it up.)
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The segment with the giant thwomps breaking hard blocks over lava (so you can slide under and get coins) was not strictly challenging but it's an uncommon setup and unless you've practiced it a bunch, you can die stupidly because, for example, you didn't realize how slowly thwomps sink in lava and you lost momentum. Which would normally be a harmless learning experience but here everything is white knuckle with the 5+ minute clear time on the line.
Yeah I think it's a pretty clear victim of checkpoints being useless in clear condition levels.
Something you could do is split the level into two halves. Put a checkpoint at the halfway point.
At the start of the level, install a mechanism to set On/Offs to Off. So runs starting from start are Off while runs starting from the checkpoint are On.
In the checkpoint area, if On, create a mechanism that blocks access to the first half of the course and awards enough coins to meet the coin condition using only the second half.
You can structure the first half as a platforming challenge plus optional coin collection to make the second half easier if you manage to do it all in one run. But if you die in the second half, that's ok, you don't have to repeat the first half and it's still completable from checkpoint.
I think that's a compromise but a fair one that improves the level concept more than it detracts.
@Donkey Kong I gotta admit, I'm not quite following your suggestion here. I've also been awake all night (coming up on 17 hours actually...) So this may reject more on my lack of sleep than your explaining
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