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QUILTBAG: It’s Pride Time

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    pimentopimento she/they/pim Registered User regular
    pimento wrote: »
    Been at AusPAX at the most queer inclusive environment I'll be in all year. Sure would love to not have massive impostor syndrome any time I'm in an explicit queer space. Still, I've only had one shower cry so far while here.

    Anyway, <3

    I figured out some of the impostor syndrome stuff the night after the con ended (great timing!). They had some nice rainbow pride lanyards up in the diversity lounge that were reversible to trans pride colours, and they'd give one out if you could answer a basic queer gaming question. The issue was that they asked me to name a trans character in a game (other people were asked different questions), and my brain froze up and I couldn't name one at all. They ended up prompting me to name someone from one of the dragon age games (I've not played any of them) so I have the lanyard, but that whole exchange left me feeling pretty crappy. I probably should have either gone with my gut and said Celeste (which I've also not played but I had an inkling about something (turns out it's a correct answer)) or just taken some good game dev advice and failed faster and just left. Ultimately I blame games writers for not putting more [good] trans characters in games, but you know.

    The next day they were just asking for favourite ships (which being ace/functionally aro also isn't great, but given that it wouldn't have felt like such a personal failure and I woulda just said Link/Sidon) so either they got some feedback or someone else was in charge of questions.

    Anyway, I'm going to play some Celeste later.

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    Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    "Name a trans character from a game"

    "Mario"

    "What? Mario's not trans"

    "How do you know?"

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    pimentopimento she/they/pim Registered User regular
    "Name a trans character from a game"

    "Mario"

    "What? Mario's not trans"

    "How do you know?"

    I mean, yea, if they hadn't said confirmed by devs (I left that part out) then I'da said Samus.

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    Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    Seems like a pretty demanding question. I can think of exactly one answer and that's only because of the DA prompt.

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    pimentopimento she/they/pim Registered User regular
    Seems like a pretty demanding question. I can think of exactly one answer and that's only because of the DA prompt.

    Yea, the next morning I thought of some poorly done ones (birdo and poison) but I'm not sure I'd've wanted to bring them up anyway. It's an indictement on game devs, it is.

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    GrogGrog My sword is only steel in a useful shape.Registered User regular
    Yeah, bit off having a test for queerness.

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    VeldrinVeldrin Sham bam bamina Registered User regular
    pimento wrote: »
    pimento wrote: »
    Been at AusPAX at the most queer inclusive environment I'll be in all year. Sure would love to not have massive impostor syndrome any time I'm in an explicit queer space. Still, I've only had one shower cry so far while here.

    Anyway, <3

    I figured out some of the impostor syndrome stuff the night after the con ended (great timing!). They had some nice rainbow pride lanyards up in the diversity lounge that were reversible to trans pride colours, and they'd give one out if you could answer a basic queer gaming question. The issue was that they asked me to name a trans character in a game (other people were asked different questions), and my brain froze up and I couldn't name one at all. They ended up prompting me to name someone from one of the dragon age games (I've not played any of them) so I have the lanyard, but that whole exchange left me feeling pretty crappy. I probably should have either gone with my gut and said Celeste (which I've also not played but I had an inkling about something (turns out it's a correct answer)) or just taken some good game dev advice and failed faster and just left. Ultimately I blame games writers for not putting more [good] trans characters in games, but you know.

    The next day they were just asking for favourite ships (which being ace/functionally aro also isn't great, but given that it wouldn't have felt like such a personal failure and I woulda just said Link/Sidon) so either they got some feedback or someone else was in charge of questions.

    Anyway, I'm going to play some Celeste later.

    When I went, they said favourite queer ships could be canon or non-canon, so they may have had further feedback on top of that.

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    pimentopimento she/they/pim Registered User regular
    Grog wrote: »
    Yeah, bit off having a test for queerness.

    I don't think they intended it to be gatekeepey so much as celebratory.. they just missed a bit. Given how many I saw around I'm sure I wasn't the only person who couldn't think of anything and was just given one anyway. I'm sure I presented as someone who'd know an answer to that question, if anyone there would - I feel like less queer presenting people would've received easier yet still queer focussed questions.

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    lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    I think my brain would have panicked and I'd have said something like Bowsette or Diva from Overwatch. But I don't know if those are right either.

    I'm sorry you felt off about it, pimento.

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    PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    edited October 2019
    That is a really shitty question

    In addition to Birdo and Poison

    Erica from Catherine

    The mishandled character from Andromeda

    Kren who is unfortunately not voiced by a trans actor

    Gwyndolin is trans only in the sense that someone else assigned them a gender

    You basically have to choose a poor portrayal or say something like Samus or Mario

    Also you need to be a massive, massive nerd or own a PS4 because I heard there's also a trans character in Horizon

    Platy on
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    GrogGrog My sword is only steel in a useful shape.Registered User regular
    pimento wrote: »
    Grog wrote: »
    Yeah, bit off having a test for queerness.

    I don't think they intended it to be gatekeepey so much as celebratory.. they just missed a bit. Given how many I saw around I'm sure I wasn't the only person who couldn't think of anything and was just given one anyway. I'm sure I presented as someone who'd know an answer to that question, if anyone there would - I feel like less queer presenting people would've received easier yet still queer focussed questions.

    Oh I'm sure it was done with the best of intentions, it just illustrates the need to be extra mindful that in queer spaces you're going to have people who are uncertain, questioning and feeling vulnerable. Those people have just as much right to be there and be involved than anyone else.

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    AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    I heard they gave you a lanyard even if you got the question wrong or something, but yeah I think it was like a cute question in theory that would help raise awareness or make people think about how typically bad the representation of queer folks are in video games...

    but the way it happens can easily make actual queer people freeze up and feel bad for not instantly having an answer or suchlike. They probably did it the wrong way around: give the person the lanyard, and while doing so ask them the question. That way you're giving them the really nice thing and just asking a friendly question in return, rather than making the nice thing seem like a 'reward' for answering the question.

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    AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    Veldrin wrote: »
    pimento wrote: »
    pimento wrote: »
    Been at AusPAX at the most queer inclusive environment I'll be in all year. Sure would love to not have massive impostor syndrome any time I'm in an explicit queer space. Still, I've only had one shower cry so far while here.

    Anyway, <3

    I figured out some of the impostor syndrome stuff the night after the con ended (great timing!). They had some nice rainbow pride lanyards up in the diversity lounge that were reversible to trans pride colours, and they'd give one out if you could answer a basic queer gaming question. The issue was that they asked me to name a trans character in a game (other people were asked different questions), and my brain froze up and I couldn't name one at all. They ended up prompting me to name someone from one of the dragon age games (I've not played any of them) so I have the lanyard, but that whole exchange left me feeling pretty crappy. I probably should have either gone with my gut and said Celeste (which I've also not played but I had an inkling about something (turns out it's a correct answer)) or just taken some good game dev advice and failed faster and just left. Ultimately I blame games writers for not putting more [good] trans characters in games, but you know.

    The next day they were just asking for favourite ships (which being ace/functionally aro also isn't great, but given that it wouldn't have felt like such a personal failure and I woulda just said Link/Sidon) so either they got some feedback or someone else was in charge of questions.

    Anyway, I'm going to play some Celeste later.

    When I went, they said favourite queer ships could be canon or non-canon, so they may have had further feedback on top of that.

    that's what a ship is- a pairing that can be canon or non-canon. They probably just told people that because not everyone is familiar with the term 'ship' xD

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    Donovan PuppyfuckerDonovan Puppyfucker A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered User regular
    Grog wrote: »
    Yeah, bit off having a test for queerness.

    Absolutely, that's just fucking gatekeeping.

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    WhippyWhippy Moderator, Admin Emeritus Admin Emeritus
    cannons on a ship, who could possibly misinterpret that

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    VivixenneVivixenne Remember your training, and we'll get through this just fine. Registered User regular
    edited October 2019
    There were heaps of folks who knew plenty of answers to the questions after the fact, but froze having to think of them on the spot.

    I was asked to name a queer lady character and it still took me ages to just say Cassandra from AC: Odyssey.

    I chatted a bit to the folks at the table a bit after that first day, and they did say it was an awareness thing. I initially thought it was a neat idea, but it did seem to raise the issue of there being VERY POOR REPRESENTATION in games for queer folks, which is not the fault of con-goers, and I think on that one it definitely came across a bit gate-keepery.

    It also sort of raises the notion that queer folks would know everything about queer representation in their area of interest... or play games where such things are made explicit (eg, what if you exclusively play Fortnite or puzzle games or mobile games etc, it doesn’t make you any less a gamer and it doesn’t make you any less queer ffs) which to me is straight nonsense.

    So I’m kinda glad to hear that the questions changed after day one.

    Anyone who wanted a pride lanyard should have just gotten one, period!

    Vivixenne on
    XBOX: NOVADELPHINI | DISCORD: NOVADELPHINI #7387 | TWITTER
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    AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    edited October 2019
    Grog wrote: »
    Yeah, bit off having a test for queerness.

    Absolutely, that's just fucking gatekeeping.

    mmm I think this is a very uncharitable take, to be frank. especially after the queer person who related this story in the first place specifically said they did not think it was?

    I absolutely think it can come off that way for some folks, and I think their particular choice of phrasing for the questions puts people on the spot more than it should... but I firmly believe their intentions were in the right place and they always gave anyone who asked for one a lanyard no matter what answer they had for the question

    good, cute, idea with a slightly off execution that they clearly took feedback on to heart and changed it very quickly

    Anzekay on
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    GrogGrog My sword is only steel in a useful shape.Registered User regular
    Yeah, it sounds like they actually took the criticism on board and changed tack to a degree, so I'm much more willing to give some fellow queers the benefit of the doubt.

    Save the vitriol for those who actually wish us harm.

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    VeldrinVeldrin Sham bam bamina Registered User regular
    Anzekay wrote: »
    Veldrin wrote: »
    pimento wrote: »
    pimento wrote: »
    Been at AusPAX at the most queer inclusive environment I'll be in all year. Sure would love to not have massive impostor syndrome any time I'm in an explicit queer space. Still, I've only had one shower cry so far while here.

    Anyway, <3

    I figured out some of the impostor syndrome stuff the night after the con ended (great timing!). They had some nice rainbow pride lanyards up in the diversity lounge that were reversible to trans pride colours, and they'd give one out if you could answer a basic queer gaming question. The issue was that they asked me to name a trans character in a game (other people were asked different questions), and my brain froze up and I couldn't name one at all. They ended up prompting me to name someone from one of the dragon age games (I've not played any of them) so I have the lanyard, but that whole exchange left me feeling pretty crappy. I probably should have either gone with my gut and said Celeste (which I've also not played but I had an inkling about something (turns out it's a correct answer)) or just taken some good game dev advice and failed faster and just left. Ultimately I blame games writers for not putting more [good] trans characters in games, but you know.

    The next day they were just asking for favourite ships (which being ace/functionally aro also isn't great, but given that it wouldn't have felt like such a personal failure and I woulda just said Link/Sidon) so either they got some feedback or someone else was in charge of questions.

    Anyway, I'm going to play some Celeste later.

    When I went, they said favourite queer ships could be canon or non-canon, so they may have had further feedback on top of that.

    that's what a ship is- a pairing that can be canon or non-canon. They probably just told people that because not everyone is familiar with the term 'ship' xD

    Yeah I assumed that it was specifically mentioned to avoid people being put on the spot assuming it had to be a canon one.

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    Donovan PuppyfuckerDonovan Puppyfucker A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered User regular
    Anzekay wrote: »
    Grog wrote: »
    Yeah, bit off having a test for queerness.

    Absolutely, that's just fucking gatekeeping.

    mmm I think this is a very uncharitable take, to be frank. especially after the queer person who related this story in the first place specifically said they did not think it was?

    I absolutely think it can come off that way for some folks, and I think their particular choice of phrasing for the questions puts people on the spot more than it should... but I firmly believe their intentions were in the right place and they always gave anyone who asked for one a lanyard no matter what answer they had for the question

    good, cute, idea with a slightly off execution that they clearly took feedback on to heart and changed it very quickly

    Yeah I responded straight away without reading the later responses.

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    AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    I think I'll email them some feedback- both positive and negative. I'd been wanting to give them some positive feedback about the quantity of gender neutral toilets at PAX this year anyway, so including some thoughts about this will be a nice mix of both thanks and critique rather than just one or the other.

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    AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    edited October 2019
    Also the question I got was a real softball considering I am a literal queer video games writer with an eidetic memory (name a queer character in a video game) of course I can name like three dozen such characters in an instant. I even got coy and asked the person if they wanted something a bit less common and named Zagreus from Hades because he's bi. That's what they should've been asking everyone from the start.

    The better execution would be to give someone a lanyard and then ask who their favourite queer video game character is. No even slightly implied gatekeeping over a goddamn lanyard, asking people about their favourite X is a soft question that can give much more interesting answers, and it's a question that a lot of folks won't feel bad about if their answer is "don't really have one because most of them aren't very good or my sort of thing".

    When it comes to queer topics, language is really important if it's going to be something with a very wide net of who it intersects with. You want to be as sensitive and mindful as possible because of the sheer variety of different experiences the folks you'll be interacting with can have.

    best execution would be give them a lanyard and then something like having a raffle where you can enter by writing down your name and an answer on a piece of paper and the raffle gets announced later that day. Encourages people to return to the Diversity location, and hopefully bring friends, and doesn't put people on the spot at all while still giving them a reason to think about the current state of queer representation in games.

    Anzekay on
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    PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    I think my brain would have panicked and I'd have said something like Bowsette or Diva from Overwatch. But I don't know if those are right either.

    I'm sorry you felt off about it, pimento.

    D.va would've been a great answer in my opinion, for what it's worth

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    Erin The RedErin The Red The Name's Erin! Woman, Podcaster, Dungeon Master, IT nerd, Parent, Trans. AMA Baton Rouge, LARegistered User regular
    Just got back from a tabletop gaming convention and like... gotdamn.

    There were 1000 people or so and at least half of them were trans, I reckon? And then a large majority of people were in the LGBTQIA+ umbrella and it was the trans-est and gayest space I think I've ever been in and I loved it so much. Also getting to hang out with some of the folks who made my favorite games ever ever was real good too?

    ALSO!


    Ash is here with us for the week and she and Christine are getting along great and it's so so nice to be able to flop in bed and watch silly tv shows and cuddle up these wonderful ladies and I'm ***VERY*** gay and ***VERY*** in love

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    21stCentury21stCentury Call me Pixel, or Pix for short! [They/Them]Registered User regular
    Anzekay wrote: »
    Also the question I got was a real softball considering I am a literal queer video games writer with an eidetic memory (name a queer character in a video game) of course I can name like three dozen such characters in an instant. I even got coy and asked the person if they wanted something a bit less common and named Zagreus from Hades because he's bi. That's what they should've been asking everyone from the start.

    The better execution would be to give someone a lanyard and then ask who their favourite queer video game character is. No even slightly implied gatekeeping over a goddamn lanyard, asking people about their favourite X is a soft question that can give much more interesting answers, and it's a question that a lot of folks won't feel bad about if their answer is "don't really have one because most of them aren't very good or my sort of thing".

    When it comes to queer topics, language is really important if it's going to be something with a very wide net of who it intersects with. You want to be as sensitive and mindful as possible because of the sheer variety of different experiences the folks you'll be interacting with can have.

    best execution would be give them a lanyard and then something like having a raffle where you can enter by writing down your name and an answer on a piece of paper and the raffle gets announced later that day. Encourages people to return to the Diversity location, and hopefully bring friends, and doesn't put people on the spot at all while still giving them a reason to think about the current state of queer representation in games.

    Zagreus is bi? I need to get back in that game.

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    WyvernWyvern Registered User regular
    Platy wrote: »
    That is a really shitty question

    In addition to Birdo and Poison

    Erica from Catherine

    The mishandled character from Andromeda

    Kren who is unfortunately not voiced by a trans actor

    Gwyndolin is trans only in the sense that someone else assigned them a gender

    You basically have to choose a poor portrayal or say something like Samus or Mario

    Also you need to be a massive, massive nerd or own a PS4 because I heard there's also a trans character in Horizon
    Vivian from Thousand Year Door was fine, as far as I know (aside from the trans stuff getting papered over in the English version, of course).

    Too bad Nintendo killed Paper Mario stone dead.

    Switch: SW-2431-2728-9604 || 3DS: 0817-4948-1650
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    Curly_BraceCurly_Brace Robot Girl Mimiga VillageRegistered User regular
    Samus Aran is a trans woman and asexual. She told me herself.

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    WotanAnubisWotanAnubis Registered User regular
    I'm not saying Sayonara Wild Hearts is a game about the Fool learning to love themself and accepting they're trans, I'm just saying it's a perfectly valid interpretation.

    But then, SWH is open to a lot of interpretations.

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    Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    edited October 2019
    I just found out about a big gay New Year's event happening near me called Queer Prom. It's a banquet and cabaret and party for £30 which sounds like a bargain. I am tempted to go, even though I generally feel super awkward at social things. And I'm used to going to bed at 9pm so staying up past midnight might literally kill me. Hmm.

    Also I am pretty disappointed that it's not called New Queers Eve

    Brovid Hasselsmof on
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    PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    Could you suit up

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    Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    Assuming I can find a suit that a) fits me and b) I can afford, suiting up is like 98% of the reason for going.

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    MorivethMoriveth BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWNRegistered User regular
    Mindy Blanchard from Dishonored 2 is trans, isn't she?

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    SeidkonaSeidkona Had an upgrade Registered User regular
    edited October 2019
    Poor choice of last name, Devs.

    Seidkona on
    Mostly just huntin' monsters.
    XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
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    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Seidkona wrote: »
    Poor choice of last name, Devs.

    Why's that?

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    SeidkonaSeidkona Had an upgrade Registered User regular
    3clipse wrote: »
    Seidkona wrote: »
    Poor choice of last name, Devs.

    Why's that?

    Blanchard, to trans people, was an asshole. He put forth a lot of bullshit to invalidate who we are as people and turn it into some fetishistic crap that still echos today in the reasoning behind Gatekeeping and attacks on us by Gender Critical assholes.

    Mostly just huntin' monsters.
    XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
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    MorivethMoriveth BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWNRegistered User regular
    Huh, I did not know that. That does suck!

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    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Seidkona wrote: »
    3clipse wrote: »
    Seidkona wrote: »
    Poor choice of last name, Devs.

    Why's that?

    Blanchard, to trans people, was an asshole. He put forth a lot of bullshit to invalidate who we are as people and turn it into some fetishistic crap that still echos today in the reasoning behind Gatekeeping and attacks on us by Gender Critical assholes.

    That really sucks! Follow up question, who was this person because the name's not ringing a bell and Google is just telling me about liquor stores and a murder mystery.

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    GrogGrog My sword is only steel in a useful shape.Registered User regular
    edited October 2019
    Moriveth wrote: »
    Mindy Blanchard from Dishonored 2 is trans, isn't she?

    Oh shit, how did I have no idea my wife was trans.

    But yeah, Rowan Ray Blanchard is an 'academic' who's floated loads of 'autogynephelia' theories and whatnot and generally is a skeezy old fuck

    edit: woops, got my R's mixed up

    Grog on
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    admanbadmanb unionize your workplace Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Rowan Blanchard was on Girl Meets World.

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    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Googling that name just gets me an actress. Google is on on the conspiracy to stop me from learning about this deeply, deeply, deeply shitty person!

This discussion has been closed.